The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

Chill Dude

Well-Known Member
I must be incredibly naive. I'm in shock that the state of NY had such strong support for Trump.

It's not that the state of New York has strong support for Trump, but it's the fact that he is a native Newyorker, a well respected business man and has certain celebrity status in the state which gave him a very strong showing among republicans yesterday...

There is no way in hell that Donald Trump would beat Hilary or Bernie in New York's General

FYI, In New York, Clinton received more votes than Trump, Kasich and Cruz combined!!
New York is generally a very progressive dark blue state
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well-worn member
Thousands Of California Voters May Be Shut Out Of The Primary
If you are a California voter registered with the American Independent Party, you are NOT an Independent and you may not be able to vote for your chosen candidate in the upcoming primary.

Up to 350,000 California voters may be incorrectly registered and unless those voters change their registration, they will not be able to cast a ballot for the candidate of their choice in the upcoming presidential primary. In an election cycle that has been called “the most competitive in decades” on both sides of the political spectrum, this is a big deal in a state that is rich with delegates. It is particularly important for voters who have changed party affiliation in order to cast their votes for Bernie Sanders.

The Los Angeles Times commissioned a survey of 500 members of the American Independent Party to determine the number of voters who thought they were registering as an Independent but had, in reality, registered with the American Independent Party. The AIP is a conservative political party that is against abortion rights, opposes same sex marriage and favors constructing a U.S. border fence. The poll found that 3 out of 4 voters were unaware they had registered incorrectly.

California is a closed primary state, which means that a voter can only vote for candidates on the ticket of the party to which they are registered, however, the Democratic Party allows unaffiliated voters to cast a ballot. The Republican Party does not.

The deadline to change party affiliation is Monday, May 23 and it can be done online. Doing so will allow those who incorrectly registered to cast their ballots in the June 7 primary for the candidates of their choice. Those wishing to maintain Independent status must check the No Party Preference option. You can check your voter registration status here.

The mix-up is because of the name. Many voters, including some very well known celebrities, including Demi Moore and Patrick Schwarzenegger, son of former Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, mistakenly thought that by checking the American Independent Party, they were registering as an Independent.

The American Independent Party has a membership of about 472,000, comprising 2.7 percent of the total voters in the state. It was founded back in 1967 when George Wallace, a staunch segregationist, was running for the presidency. The former Alabama governor helped to form the party and ran on its ticket. California is the only state where the AIP still exists.


For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
After New York comes the question: What does Bernie want?

By John Wagner and Dan Balz
April 20 at 6:27 PM

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Hillary Clinton’s victory in the New York primary Tuesday has brought Sen. Bernie Sanders one step closer to a series of difficult decisions that can be summed up in one simple question: What does Bernie want?

How he answers that question will have a direct bearing on how united Democrats will be heading into the fall campaign — and whether Sanders will be able to leverage his success this year into lasting power and influence.

His campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination has been more successful than almost anyone had predicted. He has generated a sizable and enthusiastic following, including an outpouring among young people and a gusher of small donations that more than matched the mighty Clinton financial network. His bold agenda has pushed Clinton to the left, a testament to the strength of the party’s grass-roots progressive wing, which has made him its hero.

But as Clinton extends her lead in pledged delegates, Sanders must now confront the reality that he has almost no chance of becoming the Democratic nominee. Instead he must decide what he will do with what he has built — starting with how he conducts his campaign over the next two months, how he navigates the party’s national convention in July, what role he plays in the general election and, perhaps most important, what happens after the November results have been tallied.

At the heart of many of these questions is another one: Will the self-described democratic socialist, who has run all his past campaigns as an independent, continue calling himself a Democrat after his presidential bid ends? (After this article was published online Wednesday, Sanders’s campaign manager said he expects the senator to be a member of the party “for life.”)

Sanders advisers insist that, with the candidate focused on carrying on his campaign through the last of the primaries in June and on to the Philadelphia convention, there have been few discussions about such questions. But his wife, Jane, offered a preview of the candidate’s thinking in an interview with The Washington Post just before New Yorkers went to the polls.

“If he’s president, he wants to keep this movement going,” she said. “If he’s not president, he’ll have to keep this movement going for a lot more reasons, because nobody else wants to accomplish what has ignited the interest of the voters.”

Asked what that might look like, she said: “We’ll figure that out, if and when. . . . Honestly, we will continue no matter what. There’s enough people that will continue it. We’ll keep that vision out there. I mean, he will not sit idly by. There’s no doubt about that.”

Neil Sroka, communications director of the progressive advocacy group Democracy for America, or DFA — which was founded by former Vermont governor Howard Dean after his 2004 presidential campaign and which has endorsed Sanders — said Sanders has several options.

One would be something like DFA. Another would be a more traditional leadership PAC, while a third would be what Sroka called a “let a thousand flowers bloom” approach — working with a variety of existing organizations to further his progressive agenda.

Whatever route he chooses, Sanders “has pole-vaulted himself into a real leadership position in the progressive movement,” Sroka said. “This movement now not only has Elizabeth Warren but Bernie Sanders. He’s going to be a powerful voice in either the White House or the Senate.”

What Sanders decides about the future course of his campaign could be crucial to how quickly the party comes together after what has become an increasingly fractious nominating battle, something the Clinton forces are keenly aware of. Sanders’s recent attacks on Clinton have alarmed her supporters. They are now listening closely for a change in his rhetoric — as there was in Clinton’s at roughly the same point in 2008 in her contest against then-Sen. Barack Obama.

"In 2008 after Hillary lost North Carolina, she made it clear that our days of attacking Obama were behind us and that we were not to do anything that would make it more difficult for Obama to win a general election,” said Democratic pollster Geoff Garin, who was then a member of Clinton’s campaign team and now serves as an adviser to Priorities USA, the pro-Clinton super PAC. “She saw the thing through but refrained from criticisms of Obama that would leave a lasting mark. That’s really the conversation that should be going on in the Sanders campaign.”

But his campaign showed no immediate signs of relenting in its improbable bid to catch her in the chase for delegates.

After the results from New York were in Tuesday night, Sanders’s campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, appeared on MSNBC in front of a map of remaining states and outlined how he thinks the campaign could still close the delegate gap. He also said that if Sanders gets close, he will start actively trying to flip the allegiances of superdelegates, the elected officials and other party insiders who also get to weigh in on the nomination. So far, they have sided overwhelmingly with Clinton.

Given that delegates are awarded proportionately in the Democratic contests, Sanders would need to not only win most of the remaining primaries and caucuses but win them by very lopsided margins to catch Clinton. Many of the upcoming contests are also closed to independents, who have bolstered Sanders’s numbers in states where he has prevailed.

The New York primary made it clear that while Sanders may not have the backing of a majority of Democrats, the affection of his supporters runs deep. In the closing days of the race, he turned out three of the largest crowds of his entire campaign, including an estimated 28,000-plus at a park Sunday afternoon in Brooklyn, where he grew up.

He was treated like a rock star as he walked the streets of New York with an entourage of aides, Secret Service agents and the press in tow, including on Monday during a 15-block stroll near the hotel where he stayed near Times Square.

"Oh, my God,” a young woman exclaimed upon seeing him. Others could be heard calling friends on their cellphones to say they had run into Sanders. People requested selfies by the dozen. And there were near-constant calls of “Feel the Bern” and “Love you, Bernie” as he passed by, along with honks of approval from cars on the street.

That kind of enthusiasm is infectious and can make it all the more difficult for a candidate to pivot to a different phase of the campaign. Former Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell (D), a Clinton supporter, praised Sanders for what he has accomplished, calling it “an incredible feat” — but he said the time is coming when Sanders will have to tone done his attacks on Clinton for the good of the party. But Rendell also said he understands how hard that can be.

“He has candidate-itis, which we all who have run for office have had at one time or another,” Rendell said. “You look at the crowds, you think: ‘They love me. I’m going to win.’ You get the feedback from the crowds and you really think you’re going to win.”

When Democrats get to Philadelphia in late July, it is assumed that Sanders has more than earned a prime-time speaking slot. Beyond that, he has also made clear he will seek to influence the shape of the party platform. Aides say the more delegates he takes into the convention, the more leverage he should have to do that.

(continued in next post)
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For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
(continued from previous post)

Party leaders want no repeat of the 1980 Democratic convention, when President Jimmy Carter faced a rebellion from Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts. Kennedy engineered a floor fight over the rules and denied Carter a final-night photograph of unity. In contrast, eight years ago, Clinton went to the floor of the convention during the nominating roll call and moved that Obama be nominated by acclamation.

Recalling that moment, David Axelrod, who was chief strategist for Obama’s campaigns, said of Sanders: “The question is, will he do the same? Will he, once the result is clear, even if he goes to the convention, will he rally behind the nominee or will he strike a discordant note?”

Earlier this month, during an appearance on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” Sanders was asked by host John Dickerson whether his aim was similar to Kennedy’s.

Sanders ticked off a series of issues important to him, including making corporations and the wealthy pay their “fair share” of taxes, combating poverty, fighting climate change, and rebuilding the nation’s “crumbling infrastructure.”

“Those are the issues that we will fight for to get on the platform, whether I am the nominee or whether Secretary Clinton is the nominee,” Sanders said.

Aides have also suggested Sanders’s call for a single-payer “Medicare for all” health-care system is something he will push at the convention.

He could also try to make an issue of voting rights. During the New York primary, Sanders was outspoken about the state’s rule that bars independents from participating in Democratic and Republican primaries. Prior to leaving the state on Tuesday, he called that “a very unfortunate thing” and said it was something he wants to work to change. Whether he will go after the power of the superdelegates is another question.

Sanders has said repeatedly that he plans to support the Democratic nominee and that a Donald Trump presidency would be “a disaster” for the country. Less clear is how hard Sanders will work to support Clinton if she becomes the nominee or how much he will do — and how much he can do — to bring his supporters on board. Many are new to the political process, including younger voters, and few express enthusiasm about Clinton.

As the tone of the primary has become nastier, Sanders has routinely ticked off differences he has with Clinton on policy issues and mocked her refusal to release transcripts of paid speeches she delivered on Wall Street. His supporters routinely boo at the mention of her name, and in a change from earlier in the campaign, Sanders does nothing to discourage them.

Clinton allies fear the toll all this is taking. “I think it’s clear that the Clinton campaign has work to do in terms of strengthening her image heading into a general election,” Garin said. “And having Bernie attacking her and fighting to the bitter end will make that process more difficult.”

In the Post interview, Jane Sanders made it clear that her husband’s supporters won’t simply fall in line with the Clinton campaign.

“If they have any hope of getting any of Bernie’s supporters, it cannot be ‘Okay, we got through the primary, now I move to the center,’ ” she said. “That is the history of the Democratic and Republican party. The Republicans go right-wing, then they go more to the center. The Democrats go more liberal, and then they go to the center. So we will keep people, whether Bernie’s the nominee or Hillary’s the nominee, we will keep people focused on issues that are important.”

Other Sanders supporters have sounded even more skeptical notes about the willingness of his backers to rally behind a Clinton nomination, regardless of whether Sanders says he is on board.

“A Democrat other than Bernie is going to have an extremely difficult time winning the general election, because people don’t want the status quo,” said RoseAnn DeMoro, director of National Nurses United, the first national labor union to back Sanders.

“There’s Bernie and there’s his movement,” DeMoro said. “He amplifies the movement, but he’s not the movement.”

Just who can help broker this is a question Democrats are beginning to ask. One possibility is Warren, the senator from Massachusetts, who until Sanders decided to run was the acknowledged leader of the party’s progressive wing. She has refrained from endorsing Clinton or Sanders and as a result could have credibility both with the Clinton team and Sanders’s followers.

Warren has had occasional conversations with both candidates and recently met with Clinton’s campaign chairman, John Podesta, according to a knowledgeable source.

Sanders, 74, almost certainly will not run for president again. While he is in generally good health and has shown remarkable stamina on the campaign trail, those around him acknowledge that a White House bid at age 78 seems improbable. Already, he would be the oldest person to enter the Oval Office in U.S. history.

Associates say he is likely to run for reelection as a senator in two years when his term expires.

His job in the Senate offers Sanders a platform to continue speaking out about issues he cares about, and he remains very popular in his home state of Vermont. That was evidenced by his showing in the state’s Democratic presidential primary in March, when he won 86 percent of the vote against Clinton.

Sanders’s trip to the Vatican, just days before the primary, was questionable for its political value, but it gave him an opportunity to talk about income inequality on a global scale.

Upon his return to New York, television cameras followed him to multiple stops at public housing projects in the Bronx, where he highlighted run-down conditions, including out-of-service elevators in high-rises that forced elderly residents to climb the stairs and a shuttered playground that he said robbed children of a place to play and stay out of trouble.

As the campaign unfolded, Sanders also became a regular on the late-night talk-show circuit and made more appearances than any other candidate this cycle on the Sunday-morning talk shows. Both afforded opportunities to spread his brand of democratic socialism to wider audiences.

Sanders has served in the House and Senate as an independent, though he has caucused with the Democrats. Given what he has created this year, party leaders see him as a potentially invaluable asset to help other Democratic candidates raise money and rally young voters.

So far, Sanders has shown little inclination to play a big role on that front. But Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), noting the size of Sanders’s following, said, “Let me tell you, he’s got a heck of an email list, and if he decides to use it to help the Democrats take control of the Senate, that creates a better opportunity for his ideas to see the light of day.”

Besides the fundraising operation Sanders has built online, his campaign has also used social media to build a nationwide community of followers that could endure long after the campaign. He now has more than 2 million followers on Twitter, as well as legions of fans on Facebook and other platforms, including Reddit, a favorite of the younger generation.

That gives Sanders the opportunity to become the leader of the progressive movement and, with others such as Warren, to keep the pressure on Clinton as both nominee and president, if both were to happen. Still, harnessing all those resources into an effective organization is challenging, as Obama found with the organization he built in 2008 and expanded in 2012.

His movement, now called Organizing for America, has had limited success generating support for the president’s legislative goals. But Sanders’s success in pushing Clinton to the left during their nomination contest suggests the kind of influence that Sanders and the progressives in the party could wield in the future.

Balz reported from Washington. Anne Gearan and Mike DeBonis in Washington contributed to this report.


In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Political capital refers to the trust, goodwill, and influence a politician has with the public and other political figures. This goodwill is a type of invisible currency that politicians can use to mobilize the voting public or spend on policy reform.

Bernie has earned it and has amassed a great deal of it.

Whether or not he wins the nomination ..... he is in a position to do great things when spending that capital. The question is how will he spend it.

I know there are many who think he should empty his political capital account into Hillary's bank if she wins the nomination. I agree, but I also believe it will be up to Hillary and the party in general to make that possible. Stiff arming him should not be tolerated. They will need to take his positions seriously (the same way the populace has that backs him) and work with him in compromise.

Like every politician that has been in a similar position .... he should leverage it, get something for it and move his agenda forward as best he can. If history is any barometer.....we may not know what promises are made under the table. If Hillary wins the nomination and Bernie's support is tepid or non-existent we'll know the deal wasn't made and that he wasn't taken seriously by the party.

The irony is that this feels like a one way street. IMO...If Bernie wins the nomination Hillary's support wouldn't be nearly as important ... the reverse can't be said.


Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I usually watch the Today Show when I get ready for work. They have Donald Trump and his family for a town hall meeting. I had to turn the channel. I'm getting a Donald Trump overdose.

I used to watch him so I could keep track of the batshit stuff he was saying. He repeats himself so much and says the stupidest things. I can't take it anymore.

I saw on the news some guy with a Trump sticker got his car vadalized. They think it's because of the sticker. Reallyyyyyyy? Go figure.

Where has Chris Christy been? He was finally spotted? Also where has Sarah Palin? We will see if he gets the carnival act with the cast of characters putting on a show.
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Well-Known Member


Well-Known Member
One could hope that the Democratic leadership would look at the direction many of its rank and file members are going this cycle and factor that movement into future election plans. This is sort of the problem I see occurring for the Republicans, party leadership got out of touch/control of its rank and file and people went their own way.


well-worn member
... he should leverage it, get something for it and move his agenda forward as best he can. If history is any barometer.....we may not know what promises are made under the table. If Hillary wins the nomination and Bernie's support is tepid or non-existent we'll know the deal wasn't made and that he wasn't taken seriously by the party.

The irony is that this feels like a one way street. IMO...If Bernie wins the nomination Hillary's support wouldn't be nearly as important ... the reverse can't be said.
A lot of it depends on how he gets treated by the dnc at the convention. If hillary knows what's good for her she will accommodate much of his platform, because without bernie's support her road goes more uphill.


Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Some of the Republican Delegates are getting death threats. How rediculiius is this getting? It's a good thing that Trump is wearing a bullet proof vest. A lot of lunatics out there. We get pissed at him but some folks probably get enraged.

I hope he has a lot of extra security at his hotels and casinos.
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Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
Trump reminds me of the old saying....He doesn't get heart attacks, He gives them.

The man's mouth has 9 lives. I wonder if the rest of him does to.
Speaking of giving heart attacks. Trump supporters are making death threats to delegates. Remember when he was fanning those flames earlier in the campaign? The GOP should drop him and sue him first. He and his strongest supporters don't want him to act 'presidential'.

What should happen in a close contest is another debate. No whining from King Baby as if it was his contest. I'm no Cruz supporter but Cruz would tear into him in a 1 on 3 debate. I presume Kasich would show up unannounced. :lol:

Voter turnout was up 30% in my district. I actually voted in a primary for the first time myself. Each state has laws regarding time needed for registering with each party. So do that before the deadline. I was to late for the last election. But prepared for this one. And midterm and local elections count. These candidates weren't exactly raised in goldfish bowls. But sometimes I have my doubts. :hmm: Or is that the beltway. Hi-yo!

Get to know where you need to register from the source not from any campaign literature. Even some with deliberate and mistaken dates have went out and later made the news.
And somebody watch Florida.
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Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Trump said he will eventually act presidential." The crowds would fall a sleep if I acted presidential" is what he said. "When I speak in a room with a small group of course I act differently."

So he wants to say anything he wants when he is with a large crowd of supporters. He wants to say outrageous things and not to be held accountable for. Later he will just say he really didn't mean it.

Meanwhile he has these supporters of Tea Party folks that will follow him no matter what he says and does and they applaud and yell in agreement. I never thought I would see Hitler types of followers and a leader running for president that would say such hateful things.

This really is history in the making. It is scary alright, we've talked about it before.

I see republicans voting for a democratic president. I wonder if we will see folks changing their party affiliate so they can vote? Some places you probably have to be regeistered a democrat or republican, I don't know. In WA state we can vote for whoever we want for president.

If the republicans would have had a decent candidate that was running for president that would have been smart enough. A candidate that could have turned Donald Trump into the cartoon character he is. Show what a bafoon and someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Someone with some real comebacks to his 4 sentence campaign promises.

Trump doesn't know what he's talking about when it come to actual issues. The republican candidates could have capitalized on some of Trump's stupid ideas. Trump sucked everybody in. They were afraid to challenge him. When they do they end up making a fool of themselves.
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Well-Known Member
Trump fits the concept of "Cult of Personality" perfectly as does many other unsavory types and one does not have too look to far, either in the present or in the past to realize that THAT is a very scary thing. That kind of psychological power over others opens up a pandora's box that leaves people wondering, "How could people actually allow this to happen?"


well-worn member
I just unregistered as a democrat, again and probably forever. Fuck this broken two-party system, and the pandering media that now seems to want herr trump. I almost registered for the "twelve visions party" or the "green" party, but went for "undeclared" instead. Bernie's too good for this shit-show anyways.


"Regardless of how Trump and Sanders fare in their respective conventions, they could still operate a serious race for the White House. Both New York loudmouths boast a gigantic wave of rabid new voters, as well as a wellspring of working-class Americans desperate to reverse Wall Street’s increasingly oligarchical dominance, mass layoffs/underemployment, stagnant wages, crumbling infrastructure & the other byproducts of the neoliberal-neoconservative economic policy alliance. Sanders could march into November as the nominee of the new Democratic Socialist Party, with a trail of young, idealistic future leaders tweeting and live-streaming behind him."

:disgust: I'm (obviously) not the only one that's disgusted:

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Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Charles Koch one of the infamous republican Koch brothers admitted that Hillary Clinton would be a better candidate than the republican choices in a round about way. I saw an interview on CNN.

Wow, that's quite an admission. It's all good for the democrats.
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Putin is a War Criminal
Even the Kochs don't want the country destroyed. They live here too, for the most part...

Tho if I actually saw one of them publicly say they preferred her I would assume it was a ruse to get liberals to freak out.


Well-Known Member
This video is very telling.

Trump is popular because his racist xenophobia is popular at a time when Americans feel threatened. Maher refuses to acknowledge this because he is to blame for spreading that same xenophobia. It's very disturbing that Maher is going to such lengths to say that Trump is a threat because of his ego and not because of his racism.

Everybody in politics has an ego. Not everyone wants to ban Muslims and Mexicans. Maher doesn't acknowledge this because he knows he spreads the same anti Muslim vitriol, and is partially to blame for the xenophobic atmosphere which has been cultivated in this country.

The extremists on both sides of the isle (in this case Maher and Trump) are trying to run the discussion in this country, and we need level heads to prevail if we do not want to go down certain very dark roads.

It's especially ironic considering Maher is no down to earth character either.
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Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Try watching Bill Maher's show some time. He has said plenty about Donald Trump and has made fun of him long before he started running for president.

He has talked about him at length. He tells his viewers what a joke and a piece of crap he is. He's a Bernie Sander's fan. Bill Maher is in titled to his opinion of some subjects. I have heard him talk about the Muslim religion but that's another thread.

If you want to start one, go a head. Start a region thread. It would probably end up getting shut down from some heated discussions. It's a touchy issue for some people.

Everyone should be able to believe and practice in the religion they want to. A long as it's not hurting someone. I worry about other religions other than Muslims. What about Scientology? Like I said that would be another thread.


Well-Known Member
It has all happened before.


You look like a real human being
But you don't have a mind of your own
Yeah, you can talk, you can breathe
You can work, you can stitch, you can sew
But you're brainwashed
Yes you are, yes you are
Get down on your knees
You've got a job and a house
And a wife, and your kids and a car
Yeah, you're conditioned to be
What they want you to be
And be happy to be where you are
Yes you are
Get down on your knees
Get down on your knees

The aristocrats and bureaucrats
Are dirty rats
For making you what you are
They're up there and you re down here
You're on the ground and they're up with the stars
All your life they've kicked you around and pushed you around
Till you can't take any more
To them you're just a speck of dirt
But you don't want to get up off the floor
Mister you're just brainwashed
They give you social security
Tax saving benefits that grow at maturity
Yeah, you're conditioned to be
What they want you to be
And to do what they want you to
Yes you are, yes you are
Get down on your knees


Well-Known Member
Maher refuses to acknowledge this because he is to blame for spreading that same xenophobia.

I don't see Maher as being xenophobic. To me, it seems that he is more, specifically... Islamophobic rather than xenophobic.

But in regards to Islamophobia, and I know this is off topic in this thread so I'll start another but I gotta say what I gotta say.

It doesn't take too much of a stretch of the imagination to see WHY Isalmaphobia exists in this country. Now that doesn't mean that I condone it in the least, but..........I totally understand why it exists.

Bill Maher takes quotes out of the Koran to demonstrate how barbaric it is and slams the Muslim religion because of it, but if you take quotes out of the Old Testament in the Bible, it, in many ways is just as barbaric.

What is true though is that considering what is going on the world today, Islamaphobia is not going to go away and you can't dilute it by a few people simply denouncing it. What CAN be done, however, is for moderate Muslims to unite and with a singular strong, very visible message, stating that they denounce radical fundamentalism and all of it's actions. From what I have seen, the rationale that they use for not doing this is............"Why do we have to?", and my answer to that is, because you DO have to in much the same way as the Black Lives Matter movement has to. If you want to affect change, you have to go out and MAKE it happen. It can't happen with a few Imams stating their views. It has to happen in a large coordinated effort to get the attention of the press and until that happens, nothings going to change for the assumption will continue to be that if you don't denounce it LOUDLY, than you must agree with it. I'm not saying that that assumption is correct. What I am saying is that that assumption will to continue to exist.

To clarify, I'm not suggesting to denounce Islamaphobia but rather to denounce the catalyst that brought it about in the first place.

Ok, I've said my piece here, but I strongly suggest that any comments in regards to this topic be posted in this thread >>>>>
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In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Trump is killing it tonight in the Barney Frank said recently when asked what he thought of Trump's run and potential win....It's a gift to the democratic party. :nod:
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