Terpy Tuesdays on TheCCC420

[herbivore21]

It's live resin so it's BHO. Moxie is good but expensive.

Thanks for clearing up that it is BHO my friend! I understand that the term is often used to describe BHO but strictly speaking, you can make live resin using most techniques out there (QWISO, QWET, BHO, Bubble etc).

Would be fantastic to see a review of Bubbleman's material Chase! Good news!

Danksta and anyone consuming terps - please be aware that dabbing straight cannabis terpenes can easily result in an inhalation of hydrocarbons beyond safe limits as observed in the literature for exposure by inhalation. Some terpene profiles in high concentrations will do you damage. Some in low concentrations can do you damage too.

After you finish reading the rest of my post, if you don't TLDR it, you will understand that there is a hell of a lot of work to be done by researchers to dig up data on safe levels of exposure to terpenes found in cannabis and mixtures of various such compounds or similar in concentrates, as well as whole terpene profile fractions (such as the Blue River terpenes) - these compounds may of course act differently together than apart. Also, some terpenes thermally oxidize into entire other terpenes. I know of processes that can convert simple monoterpenes into rich herby sequiterpenes with heat alone in this way! It is important to determine the extent to which this takes place in vaporization via the various ways that people use terps.

I'll give the example of alpha pinene here. This is a compound that is found in many varieties of cannabis and is responsible for the signature pine flavor of those varieties. Alpha pinene is also the major constituent found in turpentine (yes, the majority of a given turpentine is made up of alpha pinene - I have seen scholarly literature citing turpentines that are 55% alpha pinene and more.

Now alpha pinene is not alpha pinene for the purposes of inhalation exposure limits. There are two enantiomers of alpha pinene. The positive and negative enantiomers (+ and - respectively). These have different negative effects at different ranges on the individual - this is called stereoselectivity of negative effects. IIRC, the chemotypical expression of the different enantiomers vary on the basis of geographical location, and some plants will contain mixtures of the two.

Alpha pinene is known to cause more sensory irritation than the other terpene that we know to act as a solvent in high concentrations (Limonene, see Larson et al., 2000 - DOI: 10.1191/096032700682694233 ).

It is cited to have a no-effect threshold in humans of 40ppm. That, for those who are not sure is a total of 0.004%. Obviously, we do not do safety testing of chemicals on humans when they are identified to cause serious injury or death. For this reason, data on health risks for the purposes of MSDS and regulatory limits are taken from experiments with rats. Rats have a higher no-effect threshold than humans at 70ppm. At 200ppm, Alpha Pinene (+) causes significant airflow restriction in the rat's respiratory tract (Neilsen et al., 2005). For rats, "[t]he (+) enantiomer showed persistent sensory irritation effect on the upper respiratory tract during exposures in the range of 100 to 3691 ppm" (Neilsen et al., 2005 10.1111/j.1742-7843.2005.pto_96604.x).

For the - enantiomer (Alpha Pinene (-)), airflow limitation appeared consistently from ∼2000 ppm. "The (−) enantiomer also induced anesthesia/and or pulmonary irritation as well as sudden death at concentrations above 2600 ppm" (Neilsen et al., 2005 10.1111/j.1742-7843.2005.pto_96604.x).

I do not believe that testing labs typically tell us which alpha pinene enantiomer is detected in a given mmj product yet, so we are at a disadvantage in discerning the safety of the concentrations of this terpene. I would advise acting on the basis that any detected alpha pinene is the (+) enantiomer, since it is the more dangerous one and we should always lean on the side of caution in these scenarios where crucial data is missing.

Also remember that rats were found to be less sensitive to the onset of negative effects than humans so the above data may be providing higher exposure levels than would cause the same effects in a human subject. I would encourage all to be very careful. Alpha Pinene (+) at .02% concentration in a given substance is already present in enough concentration to cause substantial respiratory airflow restriction in rats. Given that less may achieve the same in humans - yikes.

I do not recommend consumption by inhalation of terpene-only fractions (ie: Blue River terps not mixed with anything else) on an ongoing basis or at all really. You are in danger of consuming very large concentrations of terpenes that have low thresholds for serious health effects or even death if you vape and inhale terps straight. The danger will vary based on the chemotype of the plant processed, since I believe Blue River extract the entire terp profile from a given chemovar. Mixing the terps with other concentrates/cannabinoids etc in reasonable ratios similar to what are found in cannabis plants of course is the safer bet

 

[Danksta]

Thanks for clearing up that it is BHO my friend! I understand that the term is often used to describe BHO but strictly speaking, you can make live resin using most techniques out there (QWISO, QWET, BHO, Bubble etc).

Would be fantastic to see a review of Bubbleman's material Chase! Good news!

Danksta and anyone consuming terps - please be aware that dabbing straight cannabis terpenes can easily result in an inhalation of hydrocarbons beyond safe limits as observed in the literature for exposure by inhalation. Some terpene profiles in high concentrations will do you damage. Some in low concentrations can do you damage too.

After you finish reading the rest of my post, if you don't TLDR it, you will understand that there is a hell of a lot of work to be done by researchers to dig up data on safe levels of exposure to terpenes found in cannabis and mixtures of various such compounds or similar in concentrates, as well as whole terpene profile fractions (such as the Blue River terpenes) - these compounds may of course act differently together than apart. Also, some terpenes thermally oxidize into entire other terpenes. I know of processes that can convert simple monoterpenes into rich herby sequiterpenes with heat alone in this way! It is important to determine the extent to which this takes place in vaporization via the various ways that people use terps.

I'll give the example of alpha pinene here. This is a compound that is found in many varieties of cannabis and is responsible for the signature pine flavor of those varieties. Alpha pinene is also the major constituent found in turpentine (yes, the majority of a given turpentine is made up of alpha pinene - I have seen scholarly literature citing turpentines that are 55% alpha pinene and more.

Now alpha pinene is not alpha pinene for the purposes of inhalation exposure limits. There are two enantiomers of alpha pinene. The positive and negative enantiomers (+ and - respectively). These have different negative effects at different ranges on the individual - this is called stereoselectivity of negative effects. IIRC, the chemotypical expression of the different enantiomers vary on the basis of geographical location, and some plants will contain mixtures of the two.

Alpha pinene is known to cause more sensory irritation than the other terpene that we know to act as a solvent in high concentrations (Limonene, see Larson et al., 2000 - DOI: 10.1191/096032700682694233 ).

It is cited to have a no-effect threshold in humans of 40ppm. That, for those who are not sure is a total of 0.004%. Obviously, we do not do safety testing of chemicals on humans when they are identified to cause serious injury or death. For this reason, data on health risks for the purposes of MSDS and regulatory limits are taken from experiments with rats. Rats have a higher no-effect threshold than humans at 70ppm. At 200ppm, Alpha Pinene (+) causes significant airflow restriction in the rat's respiratory tract (Neilsen et al., 2005). For rats, "[t]he (+) enantiomer showed persistent sensory irritation effect on the upper respiratory tract during exposures in the range of 100 to 3691 ppm" (Neilsen et al., 2005 10.1111/j.1742-7843.2005.pto_96604.x).

For the - enantiomer (Alpha Pinene (-)), airflow limitation appeared consistently from ∼2000 ppm. "The (−) enantiomer also induced anesthesia/and or pulmonary irritation as well as sudden death at concentrations above 2600 ppm" (Neilsen et al., 2005 10.1111/j.1742-7843.2005.pto_96604.x).

I do not believe that testing labs typically tell us which alpha pinene enantiomer is detected in a given mmj product yet, so we are at a disadvantage in discerning the safety of the concentrations of this terpene. I would advise acting on the basis that any detected alpha pinene is the (+) enantiomer, since it is the more dangerous one and we should always lean on the side of caution in these scenarios where crucial data is missing.

Also remember that rats were found to be less sensitive to the onset of negative effects than humans so the above data may be providing higher exposure levels than would cause the same effects in a human subject. I would encourage all to be very careful. Alpha Pinene (+) at .02% concentration in a given substance is already present in enough concentration to cause substantial respiratory airflow restriction in rats. Given that less may achieve the same in humans - yikes.

I do not recommend consumption by inhalation of terpene-only fractions (ie: Blue River terps not mixed with anything else) on an ongoing basis or at all really. You are in danger of consuming very large concentrations of terpenes that have low thresholds for serious health effects or even death if you vape and inhale terps straight. The danger will vary based on the chemotype of the plant processed, since I believe Blue River extract the entire terp profile from a given chemovar. Mixing the terps with other concentrates/cannabinoids etc in reasonable ratios similar to what are found in cannabis plants of course is the safer bet

Thanks for all that great information. I've heard some of this elsewhere, maybe on hash church?

I was out of dabs and CBD when the terps arrived so I took a gamble dabbing it straight because I was so excited to check them out. I plan to mix some terps into my concentrates mainly.

Appreciate the heads up the the potential dangers.

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks for all that great information. I've heard some of this elsewhere, maybe on hash church?

I was out of dabs and CBD when the terps arrived so I took a gamble dabbing it straight because I was so excited to check them out. I plan to mix some terps into my concentrates mainly.

Appreciate the heads up the the potential dangers.

Bubbleman did once say on Hash church that it is probably not best to consume straight terps - which is wise. However he very frequently does consume straight terps in his videos lol - do as I say and not as I do indeed. But of course it is his business and each of ours what we do with our bodies

Definitely better to mix it with other material as you plan to do, should be no major concerns there so long as you only mix in terp profiles in total ratios that are found in nature. A bit of extra diligence can't hurt - keep an eye out for test results on alpha pinene and keep it below .02% of the total weight of your material to be on the safe side where that terp is concerned

An average BHO will have 5% or so total terpene content. A high end solventless full melt can give you 20%+ total terps. As we can see, you can get a lot more kick and flavor into very average errl in this way

 

[ccchase420]

Rosin this week, some flower rosin from local concentrate maker Elite91 Terpheadz, this flavor the "Tokyo OG". potent stuff.

 

[Baron23]

Rosin this week, some flower rosin from local concentrate maker Elite91 Terpheadz, this flavor the "Tokyo OG". potent stuff.

Thanks again, @ccchase420 - I'm no expert on squished rosin, but I don't think I have ever seen a rosin so clear and golden colored in person or in vids. Do you mark that up to the low temp they are using or is there some sort of after pressing processing going on?

Also, I didn't see any solids in there. What does rosin do to our quartz inserts if not cleaned off quickly with qtip? Just gunk them up?

It looked very nice, thanks again

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks again, @ccchase420 - I'm no expert on squished rosin, but I don't think I have ever seen a rosin so clear and golden colored in person or in vids. Do you mark that up to the low temp they are using or is there some sort of after press processing going on?

Also, I didn't see any solids in there. What does rosin do to our quartz inserts if not cleaned off quickly with qtip? Just gunk them up?

It looked very nice, thanks again

Unless you are using far too much heat, rosin color (like other solventless extraction methods) depends on the variety and state/maturity of the resin glands more than the heat used. I noticed that Chase suggested 230f is super low temp - that is my maximum rosin temp. Super low temp rosin for me would be 170f lol. Very low temps tend to give you budder due to nucleation, not clear sap.

It is fascinating to hear that rosin is so expensive in SD too, I've known folks that have gotten their hands on full melt in CA for prices like that ($100 a g).

Residual rosin on a quartz dish smells disgusting. Do a dab on quartz, turn your nail off afterwards and smell the hot quartz with residue on it. It'll have a nasty burnt smell. That is the residual rosin overcooking - I find I am very sensitive to this smell. Always good to clean that dish in-between hits or at the very least qtip it.

Also I find my rosin is always this clear and golden colored (often more of a pale yellow) unless I squish from older long-cured material which is darker (even darker still if it is old shittily stored material). Of course folks using straighteners at temps beyond 250 will not necessarily be getting such clear golden material lol

 

[ccchase420]

Thanks again, @ccchase420 - I'm no expert on squished rosin, but I don't think I have ever seen a rosin so clear and golden colored in person or in vids. Do you mark that up to the low temp they are using or is there some sort of after pressing processing going on?

Also, I didn't see any solids in there. What does rosin do to our quartz inserts if not cleaned off quickly with qtip? Just gunk them up?

It looked very nice, thanks again

thanks for watching, as always. yeah, the plant waxes gunk up the quartz really fast, especially in an e-nail situation like the liger if it bakes on it's an instantly dirty insert. no post processing on this stuff, they are just pressing through fine screens so there's no debris and this is a very fresh sample

 

[Baron23]

@herbivore21 @ccchase420 - thanks for the info, guys!!

 

[ccchase420]

loudpack extracts this week...lemon draiz x strawberry lemonade..this stuff was so fire. could dab it all the time.

 

[Baron23]

loudpack extracts this week...lemon draiz x strawberry lemonade..this stuff was so fire. could dab it all the time.

Thanks @ccchase420 - hard to believe its episode 22 already. Doesn't seem that long ago to me that I came across your first review.

Cheers and please keep em coming.

 

[ccchase420]

Prime Extractions this week. This Hardcore live resin tore me back!

 

[Baron23]

HI @ccchase420 - thanks again for another great review and mouthwatering episode.

I enjoy you talking about different producers and material sources available in CA. In Maryland where I live, as soon as all the pigs (license applicants) quit suing each other and the state over which piece of the pork they get, we will have at least 15 cultivators and 15 processors (and cultivator may also be a processor if they win licenses for both). I'm looking forward to that day and developing my own views on who does top shelf vice dose not where I live. I just have to live long enough to see it (sigh...LOL).

Also, we have communicated in the past about Bates & Worm external pump glass. I'm still loving mine (both the Bates and the Gravlabs version, truth be told). I did see on 420 Science channel an interview wiht Steve Bates where he acknowledges working with Gravlabs on production of both the external and internal pump versions. So, when I got a flyer from Touch of Modern offering the internal pump for...I think $112, I felt ethically ok buying it...its not a stolen or knocked off design. The internal I got is about 9" tall and it appears that in the past he made 18 mm versions that were larger (eh, maybe 11" or so). I found I like the internal version very much also and like that its small and fits to my hand well. Its very stable and not in danger of tipping with the Liger AND a drop down (can't use a drop down with the external...it will tip too easily). I am really liking these pumps.

If you have a moment, I have a question on Liger V3 you used in this vid. I also asked this of @mutten840 in the equipment forum as he just posted a bit of a review after getting his V3. I would like to buy a V3 to go with another enail controller I have but will go with the 20 mm and I just don't see needing the 30 mm.

My question is about the Storm cap. I see in this review that you used a Storm cap with your V3 20 mm. Is this the same Storm cap as the V2 storm cap (well, I see the thin handle but I mean the working end).

My past slight issue with the 20 mm Storm cap was that it wasn't that easy to seat it properly on the bucket. I have thought that the Storm cap or the bucket needed a bit of back cutting to aid guiding the cap onto the bucket so it seats well. Did the Storm cap or the bucket on the V3 change to make this better? Any thoughts or views on this.

Thanks and please keep the reviews coming.

 

[ccchase420]

Is this the same Storm cap as the V2 storm cap (well, I see the thin handle but I mean the working end).

My past slight issue with the 20 mm Storm cap was that it wasn't that easy to seat it properly on the bucket. I have thought that the Storm cap or the bucket needed a bit of back cutting to aid guiding the cap onto the bucket so it seats well. Did the Storm cap or the bucket on the V3 change to make this better? Any thoughts or views on this.

the v3 storm cell cap head is functionally identical to the previous one, it is just larger to accommodate the size of the 30mm Liger. the upcoming hurricane cap is the one you're going to want, it forms a good seal a lot easier and is generally just more pleasing to use. the only downside with my hurricane cap (and i think this varies from cap to cap just because of machining) is that it has a little more airflow than the storm cell, even on the most restricted setting. i think it's both minute variances in the machining and the fact that the storm cell sits over the top of it like a stove lid, whereas the hurricane sits flush but doesn't quite have the locked seal of the storm cell. i like to spin the cap as i go too, and spinning the hurricane cap is way more satisfying as well.

enjoy the v3 when it arrives, sorry for the release setbacks!

 

[TeeJay1952]

Do you maintain the same temp for all your melting bangs?

 

[herbivore21]

the v3 storm cell cap head is functionally identical to the previous one, it is just larger to accommodate the size of the 30mm Liger. the upcoming hurricane cap is the one you're going to want, it forms a good seal a lot easier and is generally just more pleasing to use. the only downside with my hurricane cap (and i think this varies from cap to cap just because of machining) is that it has a little more airflow than the storm cell, even on the most restricted setting. i think it's both minute variances in the machining and the fact that the storm cell sits over the top of it like a stove lid, whereas the hurricane sits flush but doesn't quite have the locked seal of the storm cell. i like to spin the cap as i go too, and spinning the hurricane cap is way more satisfying as well.

enjoy the v3 when it arrives, sorry for the release setbacks!

For the unwanted additional airflow on your hurricane cap, try sticking a little ball of unbleached organic cotton into the air intake hole on the most restricted setting (so only one hole is open - this is the one you plug with cotton). This will give you a much cloudier, more restricted hit! No effect on taste or anything either, just make sure your bit of cotten is too large to suck through the hole into the nail lol!

Man you looked like you enjoyed that latest material

 

[Silat]

Chase do you answer conversation requests? Check your inbox...

 

[ccchase420]

episode 24..some absolutely killer hash rosin!

 

[ccchase420]

Chase do you answer conversation requests? Check your inbox...

responded to you several days ago, would have responded sooner but there was some fluke and either i didn't send response or glitch or who knows. have a good week!

 

[herbivore21]

episode 24..some absolutely killer hash rosin!

Oh man, that looks exactly what my hash squished into at low temps (160-170f) back when not all of my hash was full melt and I pressed rosin out of it lol

Looks delicious!


Hash rosin is so much better than flower rosin isn't it?

Watched this video whilst dabbing rosin dipped into a generous amount of full melt on my sapphire halo! Cheers

 

[Baron23]

episode 24..some absolutely killer hash rosin!

Well, nice that I'm not the first reply for a change....was starting to feel like a 14 y.o. girl groupie at a One Direction concert! LOL

Thanks for the post-carb residue shot. I also wondered about that and suggest that this may be a shot you want to add to your normal format.

My mouth is watering and thanks again.

Cheers

 

[Silat]

responded to you several days ago, would have responded sooner but there was some fluke and either i didn't send response or glitch or who knows. have a good week!

Hi
I have no response from you in my conversations.................

 

[herbivore21]

Well, nice that I'm not the first reply for a change....was starting to feel like a 14 y.o. girl groupie at a One Direction concert! LOL

Thanks for the post-carb residue shot. I also wondered about that and suggest that this may be a shot you want to add to your normal format.

My mouth is watering and thanks again.

Cheers

YES!!! Please do give us the post-carb shots in future. Especially with full melt! I see so many people watching youtube videos and thinking that no residue is left from full melt because noone shows the after shot lol

 

[MinnBobber]

Thanks for the show.
I enjoy looking, envious of the day when I can try it !!!!
So what temp are you using?

As a flower-only, micro dosing flavor chaser, can you even put into words how this taste would compare to a world class CO dispensary flower, vaped in a top tier vape like a miniVAP?

And even though the hash rosin is super expensive, can one micro dose with it like with flowers, where the cost per session would not be exorbitant ??

Just looking ahead to the future......

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks for the show.
I enjoy looking, envious of the day when I can try it !!!!
So what temp are you using?

As a flower-only, micro dosing flavor chaser, can you even put into words how this taste would compare to a world class CO dispensary flower, vaped in a top tier vape like a miniVAP?

And even though the hash rosin is super expensive, can one micro dose with it like with flowers, where the cost per session would not be exorbitant ??

Just looking ahead to the future......

Yes, you can microdose oil just like flower. It is more effective because oil has a more clear-minded effect to begin with than vaping flower

I can also help you with the question about flavor chasing vs vaping top quality flower in a top quality vape. I regularly keep the most resinous nugs from my material to vape in the evo when the mood hits me (and you know that I have to have top quality flower to make full melt lol).

A good hash rosin (ie: anything that looks like the material Chase reviewed this episode lol) is going to leave a flavor in your mouth that lingers well after the hit. It is incomparably tasty when compared to hitting the flowers (or even flower rosin!) it was extracted from in the evo - especially off of sapphire! Full melt is even more of a flavor explosion with lingering deliciousness.

Even a good BHO can be a mouth-painter with flavor. Concentrates really do open up a whole new world of flavor - just make sure you have access to buy good concentrates, or know how to make them yourself (I can help you with the latter!).

 

[ccchase420]

Cannabiotix SFV OG Cake Badder this week..gas..