Temperatures for "uplifting high" vs. stoned

[Brachmanhuxley]

Hi, it's been a long time since I last posted on FC. I have been experimenting with my E-Nano for some time now and I think I found my sweet spot (haven't been able to give up combusting yet since all my friends smoke and I like the ritual, although I prefer the effects and taste you get from vaporizing). Usually in the beginning of the vaping sessions I put it on 5-5,5 (after heating it up for 10-15 min since I've found this works best for my unit) and when the herbs turn bright-brown I start turning it up to 6 or even 6,5 sometimes. I prefer the lower temperatures because it makes the herb last longer and I can take longer draws without getting too harsh clouds that would make me cough, but maybe it's not the most efficient way to use the E-Nano.

I've seen that most people use lower temperatures for a more uplifting high and higher temperatures for a more relaxing/sedative effect, but I've read on multiple websites that it's actually the THC which is responsible both for the uplifting and the relaxing effects and that's why I don't understand why people vaporize at higher temperatures to get relaxed.
Since CBD is also responsible for relaxing and other medicinal effects, I would tend to use a temperature where I get both THC and CBD to get relaxed, not only CBD, which would be something around 170ºC. Doesn't the THC degrade at temperatures above 180ºC and therefore wouldn't it be a waste to run the vaporizer at higher temperatures?

Another thing I've noticed is that if I vaporize more than just a little, I get more of a sedative effect than a clear-headed uplifting high, but that could be due to the fact that I mainly vaporize indicas or hybrids and not so many sativas. Also, I get more nasal congestion from vaporizing than from smoking and this is noticeable even the next morning, although it's clearly less hard on my lungs.

I'm still a noob when it comes to vaporizing so I may be completely wrong lol

Any input is appreciated

Peace!

 

[Petro]

As far as I understand it the closer you get to the combustion point the more CBD and it's related compounds are released - giving you that sedative or "stoned" feeling. At lower temperatures it is mainly THC and it's related compounds you are receiving which give you the more head-y and "uplifting" high.

Of course at higher temperatures you are still releasing all the THC from the lower temps but I think some of that is being converted to CBD somehow.

It is infinitely more complicated than that but that's the basics if I'm not wrong.

 

[horst]

The key is that there is not one temperature that releases the THC, instead it is a whole bandwith of different THC components that start releasing at 150ºC and stop close to 230ºC.
Like @Petro states, the uplifting components are more in the lower temps and it gets more into the body high reaching higher temps.

the sativa/indica difference is on another layer I guess, maybe indicas got a higher percentage of thc components in the higher tiers where the sativa is stronger in the lower temp stuff but I could be complety wrong on this and it's just because it's a different genetic.

 

[Brachmanhuxley]

Thanks for your replies!

The key is that there is not one temperature that releases the THC, instead it is a whole bandwith of different THC components that start releasing at 150ºC and stop close to 230ºC.

This somehow contradicts the info I've found about THC boiling/degrading at 200ºC (I thought it was 180ºC but it seems to be at 200ºC). Doesn't this mean that at this temperature the molecules break thus loosing their psychoactive properties? That's why I was asking if turning the vaporizer anywhere over 200ºC would mean wasting the THC. Or is there a maximum of cannabinoids from THC you can get and only when there aren't much left you can set the vaporizer to higher temperatures without wasting it?

Like @Petro states, the uplifting components are more in the lower temps and it gets more into the body high reaching higher temps.

So it's both, the THC and the CBD that have "stoning" properties (although you get them at the higher range of THC vaporization), not only the CBD?

 

[horst]

Doesn't this mean that at this temperature the molecules break thus loosing their psychoactive properties?

Following the molecule-logic you started: Breaking the molecules is part of the game, isn't it? breaking a molecule structure happens when we fire up a spliff and when we vaporize. thats when the solid form of THC changes its form to be able to be transported by air so we could breathe it in. Breathing in a non-broken THC molecule structures would be like snorting bud powder, it doesn't get you anywhere.
While smoking breaks all molecule structures at once (everything gets over 230ºC rapidly) we get always the allround buzz the herb has to offer while vaping allows to exclude breaking molecule structures above our set temp.

That's why I was asking if turning the vaporizer anywhere over 200ºC would mean wasting the THC.

Nope, it's exactly the opposite, vaping at 180ºC is wasting THC if you ditch your herb after it, cause the structures still unaffected by 180ºC are still intact, therefore the herb could be vaped at higher temp to get milked even further.

Thats what happens when you turn your Vape from 5 to 6, everything at 5 already crushed, getting to 6 releases even more stuff where 5 wasn't hot enough.

hope this helps
horst

 

[nihil]

I'm interested in this discussion as well. Someone posted this chart in another thread and I have been using it as a rough guide. Not sure as to its accuracy.

 

[chimpybits]

I'm interested in this discussion as well. Someone posted this chart in another thread and I have been using it as a rough guide. Not sure as to its accuracy.

Nice one.

This business of Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects comes up pretty often hence the pinned Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects thread. I looked for the chart you posted in that thread, didn't find it, but did comes across another on page 8:

Last page wont load. I'll try again and rescan the 1st image.

Also, @pakalolo took the info from that thread and created a Vaporizing Effects by Temperature [vaporpedia link removed due to malware] wiki with this info:
Vaporizing Effects by Temperature
C° F° Effects
140 284 2 x Anti-inflammatory[1]
150 302
160 320 Euphoriant[2], 2 x analgesic[3], 3 x anti-inflammatory[1], antiemetic[4], anxiolytic[5], antipsychotic[6], bronchodilator[7]
170 338 Anxiolytic[5], 2 x analgesic[3], antipsychotic[6], 2 x anti-inflammatory[1]
180 356 Antiemetic[4], antidepressant[8], 2 x anti-inflammatory[1], anxiolytic[5]
185 365 Sedative[9]
190 374 2 x sedative[9], antidepressant[8], anxiolytic[5]
200 392
210 410
220 428 Anti-inflammatory[1], analgesic[3], euphoriant[2], sedative[9]
225 437 Sedative[9]
230 446 Sedative[9]

 

[Enchantre]

In regards to the sinus/lung issues, THC is a natural expectorant, and that does extend into the sinuses, too. It will take time for your body to clear out all the remnants of combustion from the tissues of your lungs & airways, so until that's mostly past, you will find yourself sneezing & coughing, and blowing your nose, after a good lower temp hit. I see it as a direct indicator of good THC level in the meds!

 

[Brachmanhuxley]

Following the molecule-logic you started: Breaking the molecules is part of the game, isn't it? breaking a molecule structure happens when we fire up a spliff and when we vaporize. thats when the solid form of THC changes its form to be able to be transported by air so we could breathe it in. Breathing in a non-broken THC molecule structures would be like snorting bud powder, it doesn't get you anywhere.
While smoking breaks all molecule structures at once (everything gets over 230ºC rapidly) we get always the allround buzz the herb has to offer while vaping allows to exclude breaking molecule structures above our set temp.



Nope, it's exactly the opposite, vaping at 180ºC is wasting THC if you ditch your herb after it, cause the structures still unaffected by 180ºC are still intact, therefore the herb could be vaped at higher temp to get milked even further.

Thats what happens when you turn your Vape from 5 to 6, everything at 5 already crushed, getting to 6 releases even more stuff where 5 wasn't hot enough.

hope this helps
horst

Thanks, this was pretty clear and makes sense. However I've got the impression that my E-Nano is too hot over the 6,5-7 mark that's why I never use it above 6,5, since the taste gets worse, the vapor more harsh and it consumes the herb too fast. Am I wasting cannabinoids by not using it over 6,5? Should I just move the screen further away when I turn it up to avoid the negative results I mentioned or would this mean I wouldn't get enough temperature for the cannabinoids that evaporate at higher temps?

Thanks for the useful charts, I'll have a look at them and use them as a guide, but with the analogic dial I can't set it up to precise temperatures. I saw a chart for the E-Nano in the big E-Nano thread but it may differ for different devices, screen placements, etc.

Also, @pakalolo took the info from that thread and created a Vaporizing Effects by Temperature wiki with this info:
Vaporizing Effects by Temperature
C° F° Effects
140 284 2 x Anti-inflammatory[1]
150 302
160 320 Euphoriant[2], 2 x analgesic[3], 3 x anti-inflammatory[1], antiemetic[4], anxiolytic[5], antipsychotic[6], bronchodilator[7]
170 338 Anxiolytic[5], 2 x analgesic[3], antipsychotic[6], 2 x anti-inflammatory[1]
180 356 Antiemetic[4], antidepressant[8], 2 x anti-inflammatory[1], anxiolytic[5]
185 365 Sedative[9]
190 374 2 x sedative[9], antidepressant[8], anxiolytic[5]
200 392
210 410
220 428 Anti-inflammatory[1], analgesic[3], euphoriant[2], sedative[9]
225 437 Sedative[9]
230 446 Sedative[9]

This is very informative, thank you

 

[Brachmanhuxley]

In regards to the sinus/lung issues, THC is a natural expectorant, and that does extend into the sinuses, too. It will take time for your body to clear out all the remnants of combustion from the tissues of your lungs & airways, so until that's mostly past, you will find yourself sneezing & coughing, and blowing your nose, after a good lower temp hit. I see it as a direct indicator of good THC level in the meds!

The problem is it sometimes gets too unconfortable having a completely congested nose when vaporizing and sneezing a lot in the morning. I thought it could be some kind of minor allergy (although I've never had this with edibles which I think would be the case if I was allergic) to weed, I hope it's because of the THC being and expectorant as you said

 

[YetAnotherUsername]

A lot of people sneeze from vaping. I don't. Not sure what is it about.

 

[TheBlazingBeast]

@Brachmanhuxley good info posted here concerning the temperatures and desired effects. Stated bluntly: typically lower temps get ya feeling high, higher temps are more stoney. Of course what type of meds (indica, sativa, hybrid) plays a role too.

Of course at higher temperatures you are still releasing all the THC from the lower temps but I think some of that is being converted to CBD somehow.

While I wish I knew more about all the different cannabinoids & what they do - theres also much to gain from studying the conversion. THC naturally converts to CBN with prolonged exposure to light, heat from our vaporizers would expedite that process. Since theres hundreds of cannabinoids I'd bet that THC isn't the only thing thats converted into who-knows-what-cannabinoid.

 

[shredder]

OP, I think you mean with heat thc will turn into cdn's, not cdb's.

And you also have to take turpenes into consideration. They are responsible for a lot of the effects from vaping.

 

[Playa Vaper]

Nice...

 

[Baron23]

wrt to the Enano....as you are probably aware, due to slight differences between analog rheostats from unit to unit, there is no absolute equivalency between dial settings between units (may vary in temp some small bit, yeah?).

As for the temp tables....I got real interested in this a bit ago and dug and dug for what info I could get and found:

1. Almost all of these tables derive their data from other studies....which are mostly NOT footnoted or referenced
2. The source studies for much of this data differs in test conditions. Many were derived in essentially a vacuum while others were done at sea level pressure of a standard atmosphere. Pressure, as you know, changes boiling points.
3. As far as I can tell, almost all of the original testing was done using pure samples vice in a plant matrix. Much different.

At the end, all I could conclude was that all that could be really derived from all of this is the very general guidance of lower temp = more heady and higher temp = more sedative. Taking it further stretches the currently available data a bit too far, IMO.