Trajectory.
Active Member
At what temperature do bubbles start to form when decarbing in liquid?
Temp at which decarb bubbles form
- Thread starter Trajectory.
- Start date
shredder
Well-Known Member
I decarb dry except in making feco.
I don't know any exact temp when making feco, but I'm sure it's a time and temperature deal. I finish on a coffee warmer at roughly 190-210°F.
Sometimes it can take many hours because I'm also evaporating ethanol, and a little water.
So I assume if your decarbing in an oil or butter ( not recommended) it would also be a time and temp deal. And that time would be longer than if dry since oil/butter insulates the thc oil.
Dry decarb.. fuck up the taste.
Water curing... fuck up the taste.
Water curing may only be used for ABV, if u want to eat the fiber, without iso-feco reduction.
After many dial to make oil (next European legislator for coming legalisation).
It's the total opposite. Oil Soaking bring a total, balanced, heat repartition. Unlike dry oven.
As keeping all the terps profile..
Because of that, u can see decarb bubble (CO2) as soon as 90C.
After trials, and study, the perfect range is between 110C to 145C.
At 145C, the THC will degrade to CBN as soon as 2min (half CB1 agonist, compared to THC).
And Only vaccuum can stop the "double hydroxylation", THC to CBN caused by oxygen, where heat become just a catalyst.
5min is enough, for full decarb, at 110C.
Below 110C end with uncompleted decarb.
Under vaccuum, they succeed to fully decarb in less than a minute, without CBN by-product.
Yet, not perfect pefect decarb is needed.
If u don't have thermometer to keep the range (110C-145C), i was going with a 666 heat.
Ending up with as potent than temp checked.
6 was/is just my induction cooker dial, can vary. but i was just putting the saucepan, when lot of bubbles show up, putting it away.
Let it cool, then do it again. Three time, for a 666.
No stir, or low, is wanted. Hydroxylation work with 02. Not decarb.
Then Europe is maker of millesime Wine. Trying to stay far, and will get away, from the American capitalistic scam.
Which just gonna add "terpsauce", to rebrand their shitty products..
Olive oil and almond oil have the best taste. (IMO ?)
But With decantation issues. (From the resin soaked, which agglomerate again with time, less than couple months).
Lower lifetime than coconut oil.
But way healthier than saturated fat.
My message may not stay long here, the forum choosing their scamers payers..
Shadooz..
Water curing... fuck up the taste.
Water curing may only be used for ABV, if u want to eat the fiber, without iso-feco reduction.
After many dial to make oil (next European legislator for coming legalisation).
It's the total opposite. Oil Soaking bring a total, balanced, heat repartition. Unlike dry oven.
As keeping all the terps profile..
Because of that, u can see decarb bubble (CO2) as soon as 90C.
After trials, and study, the perfect range is between 110C to 145C.
At 145C, the THC will degrade to CBN as soon as 2min (half CB1 agonist, compared to THC).
And Only vaccuum can stop the "double hydroxylation", THC to CBN caused by oxygen, where heat become just a catalyst.
5min is enough, for full decarb, at 110C.
Below 110C end with uncompleted decarb.
Under vaccuum, they succeed to fully decarb in less than a minute, without CBN by-product.
Yet, not perfect pefect decarb is needed.
If u don't have thermometer to keep the range (110C-145C), i was going with a 666 heat.
Ending up with as potent than temp checked.6 was/is just my induction cooker dial, can vary. but i was just putting the saucepan, when lot of bubbles show up, putting it away.
Let it cool, then do it again. Three time, for a 666.
No stir, or low, is wanted. Hydroxylation work with 02. Not decarb.
Then Europe is maker of millesime Wine. Trying to stay far, and will get away, from the American capitalistic scam.
Which just gonna add "terpsauce", to rebrand their shitty products..
Olive oil and almond oil have the best taste. (IMO ?)
But With decantation issues. (From the resin soaked, which agglomerate again with time, less than couple months).
Lower lifetime than coconut oil.
But way healthier than saturated fat.
My message may not stay long here, the forum choosing their scamers payers..
Shadooz..
Trajectory.
Active Member
Very nice response. Thanks.
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@Trajectory. I understood.
I always, and only, decarb oil.
After "french pressed" my long warm-cold maceration. Fresh buds ask more time (+ than 1 week) than dried ones. Still full of water..
frozen oil have not that decantation issue. which may lead u to keep some "un-activated".
And decarb after, on the go.
Coconut oil being easy to "freeze", solidify, soon as 20C. Compared to olive 6C, or almond -20C..
It is due to their saturated fat, +90% for coconut, ~15% for olive, ~7% for almond.
But THC have higher affinity to saturated. So coconut make it easier and faster.
Cold press oil say to be weaker for frying, cooking.
But as the range, below 145C, is kinda low. U can go with any, even cold press.
I always, and only, decarb oil.
After "french pressed" my long warm-cold maceration. Fresh buds ask more time (+ than 1 week) than dried ones. Still full of water..
frozen oil have not that decantation issue. which may lead u to keep some "un-activated".
And decarb after, on the go.
Coconut oil being easy to "freeze", solidify, soon as 20C. Compared to olive 6C, or almond -20C..
It is due to their saturated fat, +90% for coconut, ~15% for olive, ~7% for almond.
But THC have higher affinity to saturated. So coconut make it easier and faster.
Cold press oil say to be weaker for frying, cooking.
But as the range, below 145C, is kinda low. U can go with any, even cold press.
Trajectory.
Active Member
Thanks. Apparently there's quite a learning curve to this topic.
My thought about watching the CO2 bubbles is that it would be a lot easier to tell when the decarbing is complete.
It would take a lot of the guesswork out of the process. For example if you decarb in an oven, you can't see the CO2 bubbles being released into the air. You don't know when the CO2 release begins, when it slows down and when it's complete.
But if the cannabis is liquified or heated in a liquid (like olive oil), you can. Right?
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Worst than a learning curve, there is also so many internet wrong ways..
Mostly provided by those making it right, selling it, laughing to your poor ones..
As can be a "shitfull" MCT oil, when too weak..
C02 bubble is a good way to watch the process.
This is how i did, with my 666 recipe.
To avoid "overheat".
Thermometer is just easier and always accurate.
The basic meat ones
But a pressurized cooker may even be better ?
I didn't needed one.
lefef-cooking.com
Then the issue of an integrated saucepan thermometer would be the same as in an oven, giving air temp, not really the oil.
And as it only needs 5-10 min, and degradation/loss can shows up as soon as 2min above 145C..
Not like a 1h chicken, which don't care much of oscillation.
What u want is mostly avoiding to be above 145C, for too long, if u don't have lab equipements.
Then if u're not in vaccuum, hydroxylation of delta9 show up bubbles too, bigger one of water (H20 building up, 2×H2 from the double hydroxylation, which bind to the 02 oxygen present.
Sry if i'm too scientific, hope it gives u the right.. clues.
Mostly provided by those making it right, selling it, laughing to your poor ones..
As can be a "shitfull" MCT oil, when too weak..
C02 bubble is a good way to watch the process.
This is how i did, with my 666 recipe.
To avoid "overheat".
Thermometer is just easier and always accurate.
The basic meat ones
But a pressurized cooker may even be better ?
I didn't needed one.
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Then the issue of an integrated saucepan thermometer would be the same as in an oven, giving air temp, not really the oil.
And as it only needs 5-10 min, and degradation/loss can shows up as soon as 2min above 145C..
Not like a 1h chicken, which don't care much of oscillation.
What u want is mostly avoiding to be above 145C, for too long, if u don't have lab equipements.
Then if u're not in vaccuum, hydroxylation of delta9 show up bubbles too, bigger one of water (H20 building up, 2×H2 from the double hydroxylation, which bind to the 02 oxygen present.
Sry if i'm too scientific, hope it gives u the right.. clues.
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If u want to understand more about the double de-hydroxylation i talk about
brinstrument.com
Which also bring "bubbles"..
CBN, an oxygen degradation product of THC and how to avoid it
CBN is a cannabinoid known for its sedative effect. It is an oxidation product of THC. Learn how to minimize it in your cannabis oil.
brinstrument.com
Which also bring "bubbles"..
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shredder
Well-Known Member
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@Trajectory.
When i was talking about company selling wrong advice to keep their sold product up..
Dry decarb is a true "NO" to me.
As decarbing with still flowers in the oil.
Decarb only press filtrated oil, after ended maceration. And u will get some true "god's gift", Taste wise.
When i was talking about company selling wrong advice to keep their sold product up..
Dry decarb is a true "NO" to me.
As decarbing with still flowers in the oil.
Decarb only press filtrated oil, after ended maceration. And u will get some true "god's gift", Taste wise.
I don't think anyone will delete your messageDry decarb.. fuck up the taste.
Water curing... fuck up the taste.
Water curing may only be used for ABV, if u want to eat the fiber, without iso-feco reduction.
After many dial to make oil (next European legislator for coming legalisation).
It's the total opposite. Oil Soaking bring a total, balanced, heat repartition. Unlike dry oven.
As keeping all the terps profile..
Because of that, u can see decarb bubble (CO2) as soon as 90C.
After trials, and study, the perfect range is between 110C to 145C.
At 145C, the THC will degrade to CBN as soon as 2min (half CB1 agonist, compared to THC).
And Only vaccuum can stop the "double hydroxylation", THC to CBN caused by oxygen, where heat become just a catalyst.
5min is enough, for full decarb, at 110C.
Below 110C end with uncompleted decarb.
Under vaccuum, they succeed to fully decarb in less than a minute, without CBN by-product.
Yet, not perfect pefect decarb is needed.
If u don't have thermometer to keep the range (110C-145C), i was going with a 666 heat.
6 was/is just my induction cooker dial, can vary. but i was just putting the saucepan, when lot of bubbles show up, putting it away.
Let it cool, then do it again. Three time, for a 666.
No stir, or low, is wanted. Hydroxylation work with 02. Not decarb.
Then Europe is maker of millesime Wine. Trying to stay far, and will get away, from the American capitalistic scam.
Which just gonna add "terpsauce", to rebrand their shitty products..
Olive oil and almond oil have the best taste. (IMO ?)
But With decantation issues. (From the resin soaked, which agglomerate again with time, less than couple months).
Lower lifetime than coconut oil.
But way healthier than saturated fat.
My message may not stay long here, the forum choosing their scamers payers..
Shadooz..
Never heard of the forum scammers (payers?) before.Decarb the cannabis dry and infuse it in oil after. That way has always worked out great for me. I decarb in mason jar in the oven 100c for 30-60 min depending if it's flower or concentrate. Infusion happens in the same jar in a crock pot.
@Tji89 payer, is a way of lobbying, corruption..
But Some scammers only use lies..
Of which that forum is full of..
Cannabis is still overtaken by cartels, drugs dealers..
I never said dry decarb not work.
It's just bring a sub-par product, compared to slow oil maceration, then filtration, then decarb.
And OP was talking about oil decarb...
(Only "Green dragon" will need prior decarb, and so dried one. as it can boil/evaporate some if done after)
In some links given above, like magicalbutter..
They talk about CBN "decarboxylation"..
(Read what i've written about CBN)
They also give advice to add fresh bud, undecarbed, to your recipe. cause their dry decarbed herbs have no more taste...
Everything has been said.
But Some scammers only use lies..
Of which that forum is full of..
Cannabis is still overtaken by cartels, drugs dealers..
I never said dry decarb not work.
It's just bring a sub-par product, compared to slow oil maceration, then filtration, then decarb.
And OP was talking about oil decarb...
(Only "Green dragon" will need prior decarb, and so dried one. as it can boil/evaporate some if done after)
In some links given above, like magicalbutter..
They talk about CBN "decarboxylation"..
(Read what i've written about CBN)
They also give advice to add fresh bud, undecarbed, to your recipe. cause their dry decarbed herbs have no more taste...
Everything has been said.
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I don't think any cartel members lurk around here on FC
Not saying anything bad about that way of decarbing. But it seems very complicated and seems like there is some myths around different ways of decarbing. Personally I've never heard or read any place where people have complained about taste or mentioned differences in taste because of decarbing methods. Most people use the decarbed material in food or drinks anyway so the cannabis taste will be less (if that's the goal atleast). Personally I don't taste the difference when I've infused the material. I mostly use hash or concentrates for food though, so can't speak for flower. But as mentioned, never seen it mentioned.
But ofc there is alot to uncover and learn about this beautiful plant
Welcome to the internet,I don't think any cartel members lurk around here on FC
And the californian "freedom".
welcome to the world, little bisounours.
Where the pigs force rosin, to overfeed the rich californian kids, and easily smuggle higher value products.
In france Our "free" "cartels" are alcohol ones.
we make wine, some of our few bilionaire..
And cannabis one are true cartels.
"Cartel" may not lurk as you said. But their sheep peddlers do, and peddle lies..
U say u've never done flower oil, and still talk about what some people said, or not, on internet..
A 20$ wine bottle may be good, it will never be a 1000$ one...
We don't play on the same league.
Most people can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine. All this techincality is for marketing and it might fit for a small group but not general. Most people are satisfied with something between. I've heard they call decent weed in US for mids, which most people are more than satisfied with.
I've made cannaoil with flowers a few times, but the kind of weed we have here is not high quality stuff you get elsewhere, so I can't compare it. Yes I read other peoples opinions on internet, that's how most people share and get information. Nothing wrong with that. I've not been bothered to look up peer reviewed articles about this as the method I and many other use works. Usually people over think stuff, get to much equipments etc with minor to nothing in difference for a regular consumer. If the edibles taste good, it gets you high, what more is there
I've made cannaoil with flowers a few times, but the kind of weed we have here is not high quality stuff you get elsewhere, so I can't compare it. Yes I read other peoples opinions on internet, that's how most people share and get information. Nothing wrong with that. I've not been bothered to look up peer reviewed articles about this as the method I and many other use works. Usually people over think stuff, get to much equipments etc with minor to nothing in difference for a regular consumer. If the edibles taste good, it gets you high, what more is there
@Tji89 but when u can make a 1000$ worth bottle, instead of a 20$, easily and for cheap.
Why would u stuck to make vinegar ?
I've put my cheapest recipe. The 666.
And my slightly less "cheap" one, with a 15€ thermometer, isn't lab "equipements".
Vaccuum is another step. Expensive. Which just help to reduce the CBN degradation concentration.
If u go commercial size.
Then my homegrown are mostly good. some i may don't like the taste, but it's subjective, still high grade stuff. And so i made blend with them, to only get a spicy taste, way lower flower taste than some.
Why would u stuck to make vinegar ?
I've put my cheapest recipe. The 666.
And my slightly less "cheap" one, with a 15€ thermometer, isn't lab "equipements".
Vaccuum is another step. Expensive. Which just help to reduce the CBN degradation concentration.
If u go commercial size.
Then my homegrown are mostly good. some i may don't like the taste, but it's subjective, still high grade stuff. And so i made blend with them, to only get a spicy taste, way lower flower taste than some.
I don't know why you're bringing wine into this. Good for you that can buy expensive wine and flaunt it like nothing. Common people can buy good wine for a cheaper price and be happy.
Wine producers have more integrity than to charge people unnecessary high prices and people where I live know better.
Norway is known for being a rich country where most people have much money... They can buy whatever. Sure there are many that enjoy expensive and gourmet products, but most of them are aware of expensive price and quality doesn't always correlate.
Enjoy your expensive wine and homegrown buddy
Wine producers have more integrity than to charge people unnecessary high prices and people where I live know better.
Norway is known for being a rich country where most people have much money... They can buy whatever. Sure there are many that enjoy expensive and gourmet products, but most of them are aware of expensive price and quality doesn't always correlate.
Enjoy your expensive wine and homegrown buddy
The wine came at the end,
right analogy, being a psychotrop.
Analogy about product quality spread.
But also about some lobying part. Alcohol Still being a strong opponent, here in france.
I don't drink wine... often..
Or Never pay for it..
But their is a range of quality, where it is hard to find good bottle below 20$. And Some, +5000€, are not even good,.. "bouchonnées"..
My 2 cents, personal advice, go with only half oil for buds volume 1:2. (Easier with concentrates).
I read a lot going 2 time oil 2:1.
low THC with mct and it's shitfeast..
Enjoy the pigsty..
Homegrown, and/or self made oil is "cheap",.. to make,.. at least.
I always go strong, 1:2, so mine may be not "cheap". And overall, edibles end up being more expensive than vape. "Tolérance" building up with fat accumulation.
Pharmacodynamique accoutumance.
right analogy, being a psychotrop.
Analogy about product quality spread.
But also about some lobying part. Alcohol Still being a strong opponent, here in france.
I don't drink wine... often..
Or Never pay for it..
But their is a range of quality, where it is hard to find good bottle below 20$. And Some, +5000€, are not even good,.. "bouchonnées"..
My 2 cents, personal advice, go with only half oil for buds volume 1:2. (Easier with concentrates).
I read a lot going 2 time oil 2:1.
low THC with mct and it's shitfeast..
Enjoy the pigsty..
Homegrown, and/or self made oil is "cheap",.. to make,.. at least.
I always go strong, 1:2, so mine may be not "cheap". And overall, edibles end up being more expensive than vape. "Tolérance" building up with fat accumulation.
Pharmacodynamique accoutumance.
Trajectory.
Active Member
To get back to basics, since I'm a decarb novice and can't converse with experts, I'm looking for advice on:
I dissolved a gram of sticky hash in 190 proof alcohol in a mason jar, then let the alcohol evaporate. What's left is a gooey layer of hash at the bottom.
But it's not decarbed. So I want to decarb it.
My oven is crap and the temp swings wildly so I can't decarb there. I don't have a croc pot or pressure cooker either.
Since you indicated that decarb bubbles will begin at temps as low as 90C/194F, can I simply place the jar in a pot of boiling water (212F/100C) and decarb that way?
If so, I can simply watch the CO2 bubbles and stop when they subside. Right?
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@Trajectory. U uselessly use alcohol here.
Not good, to liquefy, for a "bubbly.. decarb".
Too low boiling point. 80C
Even with my iso-feco (ABV), i use 1:1 oil
(only oil can sustain, and carry, the bubbly way..).
But with stronger concentrate, not ABV "feco", u can even dilluate more.. 1:1 and still have potent product.
(Too Dry hash is shit.. to liquefy, and so need more oil 1:1..2:1..)
Whereas i go 1:2 with flowers.
Without thermometer, it's hard to define the timing and dial of your cooking tools.
Not Too hot (+145C, if no vaccuum), or not for too long.
like a 100C "bain-marie", giving even lower "true temp".
110C being a minimum for "full", optimum, decarb.
With flowers it would gonna need prior long maceration/extraction.
But one only few reasons, after "green dragon", to do a prior dry decarb, would be to save a batch of flowers, touched by botrytis (which can show up as late as during drying.)
But even with botry, i just make a warmer, hot, maceration, without prior dry cooking..
So,..
With bubbly decarb it is better to use something witth at least a LID (CBN degradation). And If u want to watch the bubbles, one lid u can open a little, or later insert a thermometer.
I have transparent cover, with my pasta saucepan, easier..
If u don't know the power, and if it's electric, induction, basic cooktop, start the learning curve at 5.
If u do it over a fire, in the wood, i may don't know your timing..
My 666, three time at 6, had already short timing, less than 5 minutes.
More than 10 minutes may be not wanted.
Remember, low stiring, and a lid, if no vaccuum (CBN).
A thermometer really speed up the learning of your tools.
I can push at max, and slow down till 3, with my induction cooktop, which go till 10.
To stabilise in the range. (110C-145C)
People without any cooking skill may still be easily be tempted by "automatic" cooker.
But soak anything in oil before heating, anything. (Flower(press-filtrated) or concentrate)
And Keep the whole taste.
Not good, to liquefy, for a "bubbly.. decarb".
Too low boiling point. 80C
Even with my iso-feco (ABV), i use 1:1 oil
(only oil can sustain, and carry, the bubbly way..
).But with stronger concentrate, not ABV "feco", u can even dilluate more.. 1:1 and still have potent product.
(Too Dry hash is shit.. to liquefy, and so need more oil 1:1..2:1..)
Whereas i go 1:2 with flowers.
Without thermometer, it's hard to define the timing and dial of your cooking tools.
Not Too hot (+145C, if no vaccuum), or not for too long.
like a 100C "bain-marie", giving even lower "true temp".
110C being a minimum for "full", optimum, decarb.
With flowers it would gonna need prior long maceration/extraction.
But one only few reasons, after "green dragon", to do a prior dry decarb, would be to save a batch of flowers, touched by botrytis (which can show up as late as during drying.)
But even with botry, i just make a warmer, hot
, maceration, without prior dry cooking..So,..
With bubbly decarb it is better to use something witth at least a LID (CBN degradation). And If u want to watch the bubbles, one lid u can open a little, or later insert a thermometer.
I have transparent cover, with my pasta saucepan, easier..
If u don't know the power, and if it's electric, induction, basic cooktop, start the learning curve at 5.
If u do it over a fire, in the wood, i may don't know your timing..
My 666, three time at 6, had already short timing, less than 5 minutes.
More than 10 minutes may be not wanted.
Remember, low stiring, and a lid, if no vaccuum (CBN).
A thermometer really speed up the learning of your tools.
I can push at max, and slow down till 3, with my induction cooktop, which go till 10.
To stabilise in the range. (110C-145C)
People without any cooking skill may still be easily be tempted by "automatic" cooker.
But soak anything in oil before heating, anything. (Flower(press-filtrated) or concentrate)
And Keep the whole taste.
Trajectory.
Active Member
Had to delete. Pic wouldn't open.
Last edited:
It works but it fucks up the taste - which means you lose some goodies. If you do it in oil, some of those volatile/sensitive aromatics (whatever they are) will get caught in the oil and it is probably a more efficient chemical reaction. I also believe both water and alcohol degrade the taste.
You may not get many bubbles at 95C (more or les what you'll get) as it will be a much slower process which may never complete 100%?? I think heating for more than an hour will start really changing the quality of the material... which some people may preferfor some medicinal uses.
But if you don't want to buy an oven that works properly, it is your only option. A small vacuum oven would be the ideal setup i believe. Be fucking careful with evaporating alcohol or join the many stoner victims who ended up in hospital and/or prison.
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From Skunk Pharm Research: Decarboxylation Page
The good news is that it is dirt simple to monitor the state of cannabis oil decarboxylation placed in a 121C/250F hot oil bath, because you can watch the CO2 bubble production.
Just like the curves suggest, CO2 bubble production will proceed at its own observable rate. By keeping the puddle of oil lightly stirred on the bottom and in the corners of the pot (I use a bamboo skewer), so as to keep the bubbles broken free and floating to the top, you can tell exactly when the bubble formation suddenly tapers off at the top of the curve.
That is the point that we take it out of the oil for maximum head effect, and we leave it in until all bubbling stops, if we want a more sedative night time med.
The good news is that it is dirt simple to monitor the state of cannabis oil decarboxylation placed in a 121C/250F hot oil bath, because you can watch the CO2 bubble production.
Just like the curves suggest, CO2 bubble production will proceed at its own observable rate. By keeping the puddle of oil lightly stirred on the bottom and in the corners of the pot (I use a bamboo skewer), so as to keep the bubbles broken free and floating to the top, you can tell exactly when the bubble formation suddenly tapers off at the top of the curve.
That is the point that we take it out of the oil for maximum head effect, and we leave it in until all bubbling stops, if we want a more sedative night time med.
Last edited:
shredder
Well-Known Member
From Skunk Pharm Research: Decarboxylation Page
The good news is that it is dirt simple to monitor the state of cannabis oil decarboxylation placed in a 121C/250F hot oil bath, because you can watch the CO2 bubble production.
Just like the curves suggest, CO2 bubble production will proceed at its own observable rate. By keeping the puddle of oil lightly stirred on the bottom and in the corners of the pot (I use a bamboo skewer), so as to keep the bubbles broken free and floating to the top, you can tell exactly when the bubble formation suddenly tapers off at the top of the curve.
That is the point that we take it out of the oil for maximum head effect, and we leave it in until all bubbling stops, if we want a more sedative night time med.
To be clear, this is for decarbing cannabis oil ( not buds) in a oil bath with a controlled temperature.
FWIW I decarb cannabis oil in a small container on a coffee warmer.
Along with decarbing the oil, I'm also concerned with evaporating ethanol. If that wasn't a concern I'd just use my nova.
It's hard for me to see how putting that container of canna oil in a larger
container of oil would be quicker or better.
Although in general I'm a fan of skunk pharm I don't see a great benefit of the oil bath method.