Swollen lips (DBV)?

[Ax818]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone has experienced a swollen lip as a result of vaporizing?

I've had a DBV for about a month now but lately it has been starting to be quite harsh on my lips when I use it. My top lip where the mouthpiece goes has been becoming dry and sometimes swelling up (even if I use lip balm) a significant amount.

I was thinking this is caused by either the vapor itself or a contaminated mouthpiece. The mouthpiece could easily become contaminated because I am in the habit of covering it with a finger between draws to stop vapor from escaping (you can see a surprising amount come out in the right light).

Anyone know more about this or have any advice?

 

[Nycdeisel]

I think you are right.

Be extra careful in the future to keep ALL of your tools clean, not just the ones that directly touch your mouth.

Always wash your hands thoroughly before handling tools, glass, vaporizer parts or herbs and any tools that may come into contact with it.

new items should always be washed before first use. this includes whip tubing and grinders, etc etc.

Give everything a good cleaning(maybe get new tubing, as bacteria could grow inside of the plastic tube) and then report back. btw its best to buy Silicone tubing and not the plastic crap that comes with pretty much every whip type vaporizer. (see the sticky on Whip Tubing)

 

[Ax818]

Thanks, I gave everything a good clean when it was new but will defiantly be washing hands/mouthpiece before every use now to see if the problem stays away.

The reason I thought it could be the vapors is because I have used mj oil on my skin and know how harsh it can be.

Does the Da Buddha come with a plastic tube? It gets quite hot and I assumed it was silicone.

 

[akwardsauce]

Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone has experienced a swollen lip as a result of vaporizing?

I've had a DBV for about a month now but lately it has been starting to be quite harsh on my lips when I use it. My top lip where the mouthpiece goes has been becoming dry and sometimes swelling up (even if I use lip balm) a significant amount.

I was thinking this is caused by either the vapor itself or a contaminated mouthpiece. The mouthpiece could easily become contaminated because I am in the habit of covering it with a finger between draws to stop vapor from escaping (you can see a surprising amount come out in the right light).

Anyone know more about this or have any advice?

sounds like some sort of allergy...do you have an allergic reaction to silicone?

also, im assuming that you have vaped before out of other devices & have never had this reaction?

try these things:
1. fake yourself out one time: try your "vaping" routine without anything in the wand. if this still happens, its obviously the vape & not the ganja (you could even try just inhaling through the whip alone without the DBV plugged in/even connected (will tell you whether it is the vape/mouthpiece fault)
2. try switching to a dif mouthpiece: try running your vapor path through a bong or something (maybe if your lip comes into contact with a different piece, the swelling will not go away - this will narrow down the mouthpiece fault)
3. try a different strain of ganja or even smoking a little bit of it (will narrow down the strains fault or just vaporizing fault)
4. try the same ganja in a different vape (will tell you if its vaporizings fault)
5. try touching your finger to your lip (this will tell you if its your fingers fault - it should cause the same reaction if you touch it directly to your lips, right?)

and i didnt even ask the obvious question like did you touch anything dirty before vaping without washing your hands...but you should probably know if this was the case really quickly...

what do you do to help the swelling? do you ice it, just wait for it to go away, or use some kind of ointment or cream (other than your lip balm)? other than the swelling, is there any tenderness or pain?

i also usually cover my finger on the opening of the mouthpiece to block the vape escaping. i have never heard of the swollen lip or anything like that ever before.

does your lip swell up on any other occasion that you have noticed before?

hope these things help...

 

[Ax818]

Edit: Forgot to include some important info relevant to this post which appears in post #7 (my post below Abysmal Vapor's).

sounds like some sort of allergy...do you have an allergic reaction to silicone?

I have no allergies that I know of. Some searching has revealed that my whip is indeed food-grade pvc and not silicone as I originally assumed.

also, im assuming that you have vaped before out of other devices & have never had this reaction?

Ah, I almost completely forgot that I was getting a small amount of irritation (mostly just dry lips and sometimes a very small amount of tenderness) when I added a similar tube to the home-made vape I was using before I got my DBV (I sucked straight from the tube with no mouthpiece). I only used that configuration half a dozen or so times. Prior to that I was using a bong with no water in it (so nothing contacting my lips). This home-made device used convection heating, but produced very, very small/thin vapor clouds. At the time I put the irritation down to dry mouth/lips from vaping combined with the relatively rough tubing edge.

Other than that I've never used a quality vape and never experienced swelling from combustion. I also used to have a home-made conduction device which stored the vapors in a glass container (like the bag vape concept without the bag or convection) and never had any reactions from using that.

try these things:

Thanks, I'll let you know how I get on.

and i didnt even ask the obvious question like did you touch anything dirty before vaping without washing your hands...but you should probably know if this was the case really quickly...

I would wash my hands most times, but not every. Don't think I touched anything dirty a particular time but the symptoms seemed to get progressively worse over time. Sometimes I would get little-to-no irritation but on average it's been getting worse. I also went a good two weeks or so (at least one use per day) when I first got the DBV with no symptoms at all.

what do you do to help the swelling? do you ice it, just wait for it to go away, or use some kind of ointment or cream (other than your lip balm)?

All I've been using is lip balm (carmex) which has been seeming to help it quite a bit (and possibly even prevent it from occurring in the first place by not letting my lips get dry or protecting them from coming into too much contact with the substance causing it). The last time I vaped (which prompted me to make this thread) I decided to have the mouthpiece entering my mouth from one side in order to give the center of my upper lip a break from the swelling. I'd done this a few time before with success (no swelling anywhere). This last time, however, caused the worst swelling to date and in a different location (to one side and on my bottom lip instead) to where it usually was (due to my different inhalation technique). I believe it originated further inside my mouth which had me ruling out dryness as a leading factor and carmex application also seemed to have no effect. It took around 12 hours for it to completely disappear.

All this has me pretty confused as to what is causing it.

other than the swelling, is there any tenderness or pain?

Very little pain or tenderness, just the niggling discomfort caused by the swelling. The worst occurrence I described above was actually quite numb and almost felt like the numb lip you get after visiting the dentist sometimes. I was quite medicated from the vapors so thought that may have contributed to the numbness.

does your lip swell up on any other occasion that you have noticed before?

Nope.

hope these things help...

Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Sound like some kind of infection that is repeated due to some dirt bacteria and else cycling near your vaping spot.. Also mind that if you not in a country with medical mj service .. and worst if you are in country that is illegal.. mind that this herb could be kept.. on very nasty places.. Also try water filtration.. it will filter some of the particles that passes the screen of an extra screen.. in the wand.. Those particles are very nasty munch or inhale.. expecially having in mind that the herb might be deceased with some pest during storage..
Mind also that even not washing your saliva from the tubing or the mouthpiece form some rotting bacteria + dead cells from you mouth..

 

[Ax818]

i also usually cover my finger on the opening of the mouthpiece to block the vape escaping. i have never heard of the swollen lip or anything like that ever before.

Which leads me to believe the mouthpiece must have been contaminated with something (I've since given it a thorough clean). However if this were the case, surely both my top and bottom lips would be affected at once (since they are both coming in contact with the mouthpiece). Ah, that line of thought made me remember I've left a crucial piece of information out! My gf occasionally vapes with me and has not experienced any of the symptoms (even during times when I did).

Perhaps it is my technique combined with some sort of developed sensitivity to the vapors. I've never really thought about it, but I might not be putting the mouth piece as far inside my mouth as most people do (no idea what most people are actually doing) and I think I might sometimes have it at a bit of an angle (I've not really paid the mouthpiece part of my technique much conscious attention). I think this causes a thick stream of vapor to come in contact with one of my lips each time I inhale.

 

[Ax818]

Are the temps not hot enough to kill any living organism that might have been on the herb before vaping?

I do get a fair amount of particles passing through. The second screen is a good idea. I will also try water filtration if I can get it hooked up. Gona be cleaning the mouthpiece before each use too.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

If you plan using water adapter like a bong.. try to cut a piece of the whip.. and make a shorter whip still long enough to adapt it .. What i wanna say is that the less tubing you get.. the better the taste is.. I kinda find the dbv tube a bit porous or maybe i made it so inserting mouthpiece and cleaning it with sticks and rolling papers ... Anyway i can smell that nasty tubing even from the drawer for broken vape parts...

 

[akwardsauce]

i wonder if it is the heat of the vapor against your lip then. i would try to switch to a cloudy-white silicone tube (its my favorite over the clear ones & if you search the DBV thread, people listed websites where you can get it for like 53 cents per foot or something, min. 10ft per order). i wouldnt recommend inhaling anything else through that tube - because it seems like that may be the thing...but i didnt really follow your responses 100% fully, to be honest...(like the bong no water part & the angles you use for the tube)...

if that happened to me, id be pretty pissed & turned off of vaporizing for good, probably...sounds really annoying/not worth it & im surprised i havent heard anybody mention this before...

hopefully the other tube helps out but if you think its your ganja (i dont), you can try to water-cure it (can search for it on this website).

for your homemade vape with the similar tube, was the length of that tube a lot longer than it is for your DBV? maybe that means that cooler vapor gets to you, which gave you only slight swelling instead of what it could have been with a shorter DBV tube, which would deliver hotter vapors.

if the bong helps, try it with water (i like hotter water, personally but use cold water/ice if you think its the heat).

...OR...have your girl shotgun vape hits into your mouth...might be fun until that tube comes in the mail...

but always make sure you get food grade tubing whether its the clear or cloudy kind.

 

[Nycdeisel]

Vaping does not get hot enough to BURN off any bacteria or other shit, only combustion can do that, but even then with combustion you would have to make sure it didnt have direct contact with your mouth(a bong would be best in this case).

Try a whip tubing that is SAFE to use. Buy high temp food grade silicone. the whip tubing sticky is 2 pages and has all the info you need regarding the tubing!


Be more cautious of what you come into contact with. also keep surfaces where you prepare your herb and such clean.

a bacteria could have just built up in the tubing, in which case you need new tubing, but I suggest that no matter what at this point, and get extra for the future as well!

its possible you have a skin allergy to raw cannabis? does anything happen when you handle herb with bare skin? try handling herb and then touching your lips( be sure not to vape around the same time) and wait a while for a reaction to see if its the herb itself.

it could also be something inside of the actual wand, that should be cleaned too, clean it till its brand new clean, pop in a new screen, new tubing and then you are ready to see if that is causing this irritation.

do you have another high quality vaporizer with a safe path to compare to?

 

[Ax818]

My DBV tube is actually longer than the one I had on my home-made. It doesn't feel like the air/vapor coming into my mouth is hot. I used to smoke out of a very small pipe frequently which resulted in some very hot/harsh smoke but had no health problems from it.

Haha there's no way I'm turned off vaporizing, I love it. The DBV is a fantastic vape and am still very glad I purchased it (I'm almost certain the design/construction is not responsible, it must be some factor I've introduced).

Going to look into getting some good silicone tubing even if I solve this problem because IMO it's worth it if just for the peace of mind that it can get very hot.

but i didnt really follow your responses 100% fully, to be honest...(like the bong no water part & the angles you use for the tube)...

Sorry, I gave some pretty bad descriptions.

Before I put the tube-whip on my DIY convection vape (which caused minor lip irritation) I had it set up so that it was running into a bong but I didn't put water in it because I wasn't sure what that would do to the efficiency. :S

For the angles, I meant the angle at which the mouthpiece makes with my lips. If the mouthpiece (and my head) is horizontal, vapors flow straight to my throat and make little contact with the rest of my mouth. If the angle of the mouthpiece (in the direction of flow into my mouth) is large enough and I make a small seal with my lips at the very end of the mouthpiece then a thick stream of vapor could be contacting one of my lips (which is where I think the swelling originates, as opposed to my outer lips which just get dry) with every draw.

 

[WatTyler]

Vaping does not get hot enough to BURN off any bacteria or other shit, only combustion can do that,

I'm not so sure. We're generally vaping at 180+, yet sterilisers operate at temps 120-130. And we often cite boiling water as killing the bacteria - and this happens below 100 (above sea level). There's a time element too I suppose- the water should be boiled for >15min, whereas we're exposing a vaped load to higher temps for a much shorter period, depending on vaporizer type. Dry heat isn't as effective either. I do wonder how this all tallies up.

I don't think this case is bacterial anyway- it's just contact related, whereas I think if it was bacterial I believe it would persist in between uses (more like a living attack). The fact that it is contact related says allergy to me (although couldn't discount allergy to contact with a certain bacteria i suppose). A material allergy is where my money is. But I am no doctor.

 

[Qbit]

Quit boxing before you vape. And yeah, MMA counts too.

 

[Ax818]

Just used it with a clean mouthpiece and careful not to let vapor flow past my lips. All good this time.

a bacteria could have just built up in the tubing, in which case you need new tubing, but I suggest that no matter what at this point, and get extra for the future as well!

It just occurred to me that it might not be the most hygenic to blow back into the tubing to eject ABV from the wand. :/

its possible you have a skin allergy to raw cannabis? does anything happen when you handle herb with bare skin? try handling herb and then touching your lips( be sure not to vape around the same time) and wait a while for a reaction to see if its the herb itself.

No skin allergy, I used to handle it a lot before I had a grinder.

do you have another high quality vaporizer with a safe path to compare to?

Unfortunately not.

 

[akwardsauce]

ya the thing that confuses me is how it doesnt affect your girl. but looks like its just you that has to take some extra steps to avoid the swelling.

honestly, ive blown into the tube before also (but not for too long because i dont want a moisture in the tube).

seems like almost everything you have thought you did wrong (touch the mouthpiece, blow into the tube, etc), i have also done without any problems.

your lips just might be a little sensitive to the tube or vapors & you might just have to take some extra precautions.

if you changed the tube & got a positive result, i think you figured it out!

 

[Nycdeisel]

THERE! I almost forgot that part! Blowing back through the whip is very bad, it introduces moisture and probably some germs into teh tubing, and everything sticks to the inside! the moisture from blowing back in it helps the condensate residue from the vapor to collect more easily, and moisture is very bad in this instance. Because moisture+organic material will create mold with the right conditions. It seems pretty easy for it to grow inside dirty whip tubing.

Looks like you may have solved the problem. Keep that mouthpiece clean(the rest of the whip, too ) and just dont let the vapor come in contact with your lips!

Im not sure exactly whats happening here, but Im glad you solved the problem!

 

[luchiano]

It probably is just your lips are dry from numerous things and the heat helps dry them out even more but you're getting some particulate matter into the cracks of the lips because unless you filter the vapor through some water or use a moist cotton filter under the screen where you bowl is, you will extract some plant fibers along with the vapor just not as much as with smoking. I've seen for myself how much small plant matter actually is released and goes along with the vapor from vaporizers that don't have some type of filter.

You can get you some burt's beeswax lip balm and this should heal you faster than carmax as it has a lot o fthe oils that help heal the lips and keep them moist instead of just laying on top of the lips like carmax does and eventually you may wipe some off therefore making it not as effective.

Also try to drink some water before puffing and a good trick to help the vapor absorb moisture and lower heat is to allow a small puddle of spit to lay on your tongue(positioned so that it can hold the spit in place)and allow the vapor to go pass it and this cools it down somewhat by letting the water in your spit absorb some of the heat from the vapor.

Beeswax Lip Balm Tin
http://www.burtsbees.com/other/peppermint-products/beeswax-lip-balm-tin.html

 

[Nycdeisel]

Burts bees is good, I also almost forgot to mention that shit like Carmex or anything that has a petroleum base is only going to hurt your skin more! find natural products! remember that what goes ON your skin is absorbed INTO your body and it can have an affect. Look for petro free products, and remember, body care products have NO laws for labeling, meaning a soap or lotion or toothpaste could be labeled "Natural" or "organic" but that is completely unregulated. meaning buyer beware, YOU need to check every ingredient yourself. Its a bit of a process, but the end result is worth it.

Dr Bronners makes some really really nice lip balms, my lips used to be dry and fucked up all the time until I started using one of these balms and now I never ever have that problem, Dr Bronners soap is great too!

i know totally off topic, but i think this should help you!

 

[akwardsauce]

i really like one called aquaphor. it was doctor-recommended & it is good for dry lips, dry nostrils (some people get nosebleeds because of the dryness in the air & how it dries out their nostrils), healing cuts, dry skin (knees, elbows, bottom of feet, etc.). it makes skin amazingly soft & its found at the pharmacy at costcos.

i got a costco sized one a few years ago & still not even 1/8th of the way through it...a little bit can do a lot.

but i think you can figure out a chapstick for yourself.

 

[Ax818]

Thanks for the advice all, I'll report back if the swelling returns. Sounds like I'd benefit from a better lip balm too.

Still confusing why I seem to be the only one who is sensitive to it though.

 

[luchiano]

Try to filter your vapor. That alone should make major changes.

 

[darkrom]

I have a DBV and I've never had this happen. I'd iso wash all the glass and get a new hose. Problem should be solved or you have some more info to look into.

 

[kertong]

I got this same thing when using my SSV - a spot on my lip where the mouthpiece was touching would get hard and form a lump, almost like a hive.

Turns out it's a topical allergy. I confirmed it by doing an allergist scratch test - I took a long rectangular patch on the underside of my left arm, and scratched it up and irritated it a bit with very light sandpaper and the flat blade of a knife. Just enough to get the skin slightly chafed. Then, I dipped my finger in ground up herb and kief, and rubbed 3 times back and forth hard on the irritated patch of skin, doing so 2-3 more times to make alternating stripes of 'herb-stains" on the rectangular patch I picked on my arm.

Lo and behold, about 1 minute later, the skin was red, raised, whealed, and had 3 hives on it. Real red and splotchy, and a bit itchy. And I know it's the plant (or the stuff the plant was prepared/sprayed with), because the red hives and allergic pattern are in the 3 bands i "drew" on my forearm.

It also led to me coughing a lot from bronchial irritation when using direct draw vapes (my MFLB and PD). Taking a strong antihistamine 30 minutes prior to toking helps me, a lot. Hope this helps you! I was shocked to find this and did the test skeptical, because I have no other allergies, and I've been partaking in the herb since '00 or '01, every day (medical CA patient). It seems to me I developed this allergy out of the blue about an year ago.

 

[akwardsauce]

well your use of antihistamines made me go look up whether you can develop tolerance to those...

i found info about the swollen lips here: http://www.allergic.net/allergy_info/anaphylaxis.html , which says:

"Food-induced anaphylaxis is a sudden severe allergic reaction triggered by a food or an ingredient in food. As with other allergic conditions anaphylaxis occurs only after the food in question has been eaten in the past without any difficulty...Anaphylactic reactions occur even if only a very small amount of food to which the individual is allergic or sensitized is swallowed or even touches the skin or the lips...Usually more than one organ system is effected and several symptoms are present. Common symptoms include: swelling, itching, and burning of the lips, tongue, and inside of the mouth, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, difficulty breathing, coughing, constriction of the throat, wheezing, itching of the skin..."

heres info about developing tolerances to antihistamines (some say its possible, others say its not...): http://www.allergic.net/allergy_info/antihistamines.html , which says:

"Antihistamines work more effectively if taken before symptoms begin. That's why for hives, eczema, and allergic rhinitis regular use is recommended, at least for several weeks at a time. If symptoms are intermittent, for example allergic rhinitis only when mowing the lawn or when visiting a home with a cat, take the medication an hour or two beforhe exposure for optimal effectiveness.

After an antihistamine is used regularly for months, tolerance to its effects may develop. This diminished effectiveness is usually only temporary and can be reversed by avoiding the medication for a few weeks. Another antihistamine may be substituted during this time and will work well since tolerance is drug-specific."

obviously if you are going to take these kinds of medications it is important to ask your doctor...you dont want to make things worse, which can get more expensive later in life (not so sure about this particular case, but in general).