Suspension of Ultrafine Particles Though Marijuana Vaporization in a Localized Enviroment.

[Wandris]

The title sounds impressive but it more or less is what I am trying to find out. I have been vaping for about 2-3 years now, several times a day. Over the past year or so I started vaping indoors instead of blowing it out of the window. More recently I have begun to question if vaping is as low risk as everyone wishes to believe it is. Several times over the past year I have had to stop vaping for weeks due to the effects it seemed to be having on me. Chest discomfort/pain, possible bronchitis and other milder effects. It could of course be due to something completely unrelated however vaping is probably the only obvious thing that it could be. Does anyone have an idea how long such particles could stay suspended in contained environment? I have begun to imagine spending the last year breathing in particles with every breath, and even with vape being supposedly free of 95% free of carcinogenic particulates, that would still be a % of the bad stuff going into your lungs with every breath getting right down into the aveoli of the lung. The overall health of those living in the house may also be showing signs of deterioration thus I am considering the possibility of an environmental factor like weed vapors. There is a fair amount of research that has been done on ultrafine particles in urban pollution but few if any to do with marijuana vaporization. Does anyone have any solid information on how long secondary vapors can stay in the air?

 

[CarolKing]

Vaporizing compared to combustion is way better, my body has told me that. I haven't had any problems with bronchitis or colds. I get fewer colds now than when combusting. I don't get sick very often. There are vaporizers that are healthier than others. You need to choose wisely when buying one - your health does depend on it. Do your homework.

Don't buy a knock off vaporizer. Make sure you are careful where you buy your unit.

If you are worried why don't you use water filtration while vaporizing? Maybe you could use little nuggets vs grinding your product.

You could just use edibles then there would be no worries.

Edit
Don't do anything that makes you feel badly or sick. Cannabis isn't for everybody.

 

[Nosferatu]

I find vaporizing using the Cloud Evo through water to be just as or more irritating than smoking. I mainly smoke now exclusively and no longer feel the symptoms you described in the first post, which I felt to a T for years while vaping heavily. I feel vaping, especially through water is not as good an expectorant as smoking through water and so in the end it COULD cause more to stay in the lungs. Just my theory from personal experimentation over the years.

 

[pakalolo]

The title sounds impressive but it more or less is what I am trying to find out. I have been vaping for about 2-3 years now, several times a day. Over the past year or so I started vaping indoors instead of blowing it out of the window. More recently I have begun to question if vaping is as low risk as everyone wishes to believe it is. Several times over the past year I have had to stop vaping for weeks due to the effects it seemed to be having on me. Chest discomfort/pain, possible bronchitis and other milder effects. It could of course be due to something completely unrelated however vaping is probably the only obvious thing that it could be. Does anyone have an idea how long such particles could stay suspended in contained environment? I have begun to imagine spending the last year breathing in particles with every breath, and even with vape being supposedly free of 95% free of carcinogenic particulates, that would still be a % of the bad stuff going into your lungs with every breath getting right down into the aveoli of the lung. The overall health of those living in the house may also be showing signs of deterioration thus I am considering the possibility of an environmental factor like weed vapors. There is a fair amount of research that has been done on ultrafine particles in urban pollution but few if any to do with marijuana vaporization. Does anyone have any solid information on how long secondary vapors can stay in the air?

Secondary vapour isn't of much concern, since only exists at a specific temperature range and the vapour from cannabis quickly cools out of it. That's why vapour doesn't carry as far as smoke and you can't see it as long. The particulate matter in cannabis vapour is heavier than air and so settles out quickly. After that, you would only breathe it in if the dust is stirred up, but cannabis vapour particles are sticky and not as easily disturbed. Then there's the fact that the proportion you would get would be statistically insignificant. You might get a minuscule percentage for a minute or so after you dusted or something. You are inhaling a far higher percentage of dust mite shit in every single breath. (I know that's irrelevant but I couldn't resist pointing it out.)

 

[PurpleDazed]

Ya wanna have a rude awakening? Just have a Kirby (excelent vaccuum but $$$$) demo and see what is picked up of your mattress. And if your like me you will want to go out and buy a new Mattress. And after that point also you will never consider getting used mattress from a friend or relative as well.

 

[Wandris]

Secondary vapour isn't of much concern, since only exists at a specific temperature range and the vapour from cannabis quickly cools out of it. That's why vapour doesn't carry as far as smoke and you can't see it as long. The particulate matter in cannabis vapour is heavier than air and so settles out quickly. After that, you would only breathe it in if the dust is stirred up, but cannabis vapour particles are sticky and not as easily disturbed. Then there's the fact that the proportion you would get would be statistically insignificant. You might get a minuscule percentage for a minute or so after you dusted or something. You are inhaling a far higher percentage of dust mite shit in every single breath. (I know that's irrelevant but I couldn't resist pointing it out.)

Ok that sounds reasonable enough, and hearing that is a great relief. What is your source for this information? I would like to find out more if possible. Thanks

 

[pakalolo]

Ok that sounds reasonable enough, and hearing that is a great relief. What is your source for this information? I would like to find out more if possible. Thanks

This is basic science and observation. It's not something I ever felt needed supporting evidence, so I've never tried to find any. I'm sorry but I can't help you there.

 

[hibeam]

I appreciate this thread! I appreciate all the health conscious people here. I am no stranger to microparticulate. I do not trust the "studies". If I were concerned, I would examine my lung sputum comparatively under a microscope. @pakalolo has a great point about household mp. Nose vaping might or might not protect lungs. I use a jalaneti pot to irrigate nasal passages and imagine keeping nasal passages wet this way while nose vaping might protect healing lung tissue. Or it might invite other problems. Other ideas?

 

[howie105]

Perhaps a water tool or a carbon filter will make you feel better.

 

[chris 71]

i put a really small amount of cotton in the stem of my solo close to were the mouth end is. not sure what vape you use but you could try this for particulates if you have some sort of stem or whip type vape.
. i find it works great and makes the vapor smother as well . some people worry about losing actives this way but i still get very medicated using like this .
just try to use a very lose airy type piece of cotton . it quickly gets sticky and stays in place and you can see the oil collecting . you could even vape this cotton filter after it has collected a lot of oil .
i dont bother but if your worried about losing anything .

i too seem to experience some discomfort from vaping if i vape for too long everyday i find vapor more harsh then smoke . im not sure why this is but it does happen . i still smoke a bit just to change it up and find my lungs feel better this way then if i just keep vaping . i think it has to do with the drying effects of cannabis .not the drying effect of just the hot air .
i know its not just the hot air because the same thing happens with a balloon type vape that the vapor is much cooler with . also for some reason i find that vaping effects can actually some times cause me to experience a bit more of the negative side effects of thc like anxiety and a little paranoia more then smoking .which can sometimes make you worry about all this crap more lol
also i wouldnt worry about particles hanging in the air to long and as pakalolo points out there sticky not like dust .

 

[CarolKing]

I just can't understand how folks can handle smoke but they can't handle vapor? Could it be the type vaporizer and the heat too high? We all are different.

We are all about fucking combustion. Most are searching for a healthier alternative to using our fav flower.

 

[chris 71]

for me its not the vape . although i do find the solo smother then the extreame q and the magic flight .
and its not the temp either because even with a balloon vape i get the same thing . im not saying vaping is worse then smoking either . i am trying to use it as a harm reduction solution and i did go through the whole like couple months with no smoking at all .
incase it was the whole cleaning out the lungs from smoking thing . but it wasnt this either . i also use very good clean product . so im not sure what is going on .
but there are lots threads here on fc about coughing and other respiratory symptoms from vaping . and lots of people reporting that vaping seems harsher then smoke .
iv said before that for me its not a harsher type feeling while vaping , and actually for the most part vapor is smother then smoke for me at the time of vaping . but its later that i find myself hacking a dry cough .and when i wake up in the morning there seems to be a stuffiness that i feel kind of like a mild cold in my sinuses and throat . that i dont feel when i just smoke its only after vaping exclusively for a time . im leaning toward thinking that its from the effects of the dying that cannabis is knowen for maybe it drys you out more then smoking thus making me feel it idk but im not knew to smoking or vaping everyboy is different i guess

 

[GetLeft]

@Wandris if vaping is stressing you physically, you should probably stop vaping.
And if you're worried about harming others health by your usage, you should probably stop vaping immediately.

 

[Wandris]

Well I no longer smoke in the house just to be safe. After cutting down from 3-5 times a day to 0-1 my respiratory issues have quickly subsided. It is weird though, I used to have chronic bronchitis when I was in high school due to smoking ridiculous amounts of bad weed, shake and cigarettes. Eventually I smoked better weed, and semi-quit smoking and for about 10 years I had no problems even though I still smoked. Then over the past 3-4 years I have only vaped and it seems almost as bad as when I did smoke. I suppose the only way to know anything for sure is to do the science yourself, maybe its time to find a cheap lab coat, a used microscope, a lab with a Gas chromatography–mass spectrometer device and get my science on. I am also considering perhaps there are other issues.. like the tube/s I use for my magic flight having perhaps bacterial growth in the condensation, or the weed I got from the dispensary being improperly grown. Thanks for all the replies.

 

[CarolKing]

Maybe @Wandris you need to get your lungs checked out by a doctor. I don't remember if you mentioned if you had gone to one? Maybe the years of smoking damaged your lungs?

We have folks on fc that are long distance runners and they vaporize cannabis.

 

[Wandris]

Ive seen a doctor and while there is undoubtedly some damage from years of smoking earlier in my life it is not anything that hasn't had time to heal. What is wrong now is directly tied to vaporizing, how I am not sure. Perhaps I have not cleaned my equipment often enough, or perhaps the weed I have been getting hasn't been grown properly. I am also considering the possibility that this is irritation/inflammation similar to a mild form of asthma. I do believe vaping is much better than smoking, given the loads of black tar you are not filling your lungs with, and the smaller amounts of herb needed to achieve effect all while not combusting. My biggest concern was if I was filling the house with ever more ultrafine particles invisible to the human eye, and breathing them in and out with every breath of everyday for the past year making myself and family sick. Although I am starting to think this is a matter of paranoia brought on by reducing my daily dose. The obvious answer is to not smoke inside that way there is zero chance of harming anyone but myself, as unlikely as that may be.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

@Wandris - interesting thread and i respect your concerns ... from my perspective of smoking for 35 years and then vaping for the last 15 years, it is night and day between the two and i only smoke at movie wrap parties (well, that was the last time i smoked, and that was in 2013) ... however, it occurs to me now that smoking destroys a significant component of the extraction, while vaping is delivering the unaltered drug - i think there is an adjustment period. and a matter of finding the right dose.

i'm not concerned about local environmental issues, but i do have whole house ventilation and air filtration, so i wouldn't be able to notice any buildup.

i do find the vapor to be more drying than i remember smoking to be. but i have other hydration issues - exercise, sedentary daylife, etc. so it is not so clear cut (without taking a lot of notes, which i am not motivated to do).

i find as i get ancient that my body takes longer to work stuff out - to achieve stasis. maybe you need to give it more time.

 

[MinnBobber]

i find as i get ancient that my body takes longer to work stuff out - to achieve stasis. maybe you need to give it more time.

.............................................................
I aim for stasis too, my buddy Homeo Stasis

Cannabis seems to help that endeavor a lot, one deep vape and I can just feel the body/mind heading there......

EDIT
You may want to create a "filter" in your vape to collect most particles. With almost any vape, something could be crafted.
Here's a picture of a miniVAP Flexicone basket module filter. It collects particles and some vape oil. It can be vaped later when dirty with particles and oil. Hemp fiber is made into a small. thin pancake shape to act as a filter.
White hemp fiber kind of blends in with Herbie surface but you shape to fit

 

[organic weed]

@Wandris I think you are right. I started vaping after 10 years of weed pause (didn't smoke, ingest, etc) and did it for about 1 year to cope with some tensions I had in my life. I used the best vape in the market. I happily quit for good because that was my worse year for breathing problems. I still feel I haven't got back to what I was before -- it has been already a few months -- but hopefully in a few months I will be back to normal.
I am sure vaporizer release particulate matters (PM2,5) that get stucked in the lung, maybe even at higher concentration than smoke. We all know the amount of carcinogens are smaller but the fine particulates can be definitely higher.
This issue is coming up STRONG. A lot of people start having a real and justified concern about this for the simple reason that the Vape market is an UNREGULATED market. There is no standard on the type of material, process etc that you have to use.
The fine particulate matters can have potentially 2 sources:
1. The weed its self. After vaporizing, the residuals weight 30% less. You have inhaled in addition of pure resin also other tiny organic materials that are part of the weed plant if you haven't filtered them appropriately -- nobody knows how to do that by the way, water only filters part of them, the grosser. They over time can build up in their lung. PM2,5 or smaller do not get out and gets stucked in there.
2. Plastic/metal materials. Most heating elements are made of aluminiun. Aluminum can release particles under heat. You can also have some offgassing from batteries, plastic, etc. It doesn't need to smell to have offgassing. If it smells it means it is melting somehow or at least having a chemical change. I am talking about minor quantities from batteries, etc that over time can have an impact on your health. We are already breathing dirty air all the time and vape should help us and not making things worse.

A few months ago I came to the conclusion that my respiratory issues were a consequence of vaping so I quit. I feel better. My chronic rinite of course plays a role but with vaped weed it was 100 times worse.

This market is still too young to be 100% sure any of these tools, even the top line, are safe. There is no standard manufacturers have to respect, no material specification, no design spec to ensure air doesn't get in touch with hazardous materials etc...

We believe we have already the best vapes but I believe we still are a long way to go, we are at the 2G... maybe when we will be at 5G with scientificly monitored and regulated tools telling us a bunch of different things, I may reconsider maybe vaping again. This will only happen when we will have technical specs and health commissions that monitor the way in which these vapes are produced and the quality of the vapor. For the time being, I am happy to stay away from the unknown...

A nice article about this here:

https://www.herbonaut.com/are-vaporizers-safe/

 

[biohacker]

The weed its self. After vaporizing, the residuals weight 30% less. You have inhaled in addition of pure resin also other tiny organic materials that are part of the weed plant if you haven't filtered them

Isn't the reduction in weight due to moisture?

Most heating elements are made of aluminiun. Aluminum can release particles under heat.

I don't know about most but my Supreme vaporizer is all aluminum and i'm pretty sure the only particles it's releasing at my 180-190c vaping temps are sublime vapour particles. Without irritation too since you don't need to grind.

This market is still too young to be 100% sure any of these tools, even the top line, are safe. There is no standard manufacturers have to respect, no material specification, no design spec to ensure air doesn't get in touch with hazardous materials etc...

S&B have received approved medical device certification. Their portables still smell like plastic when new. Lots of vapes have isolate air paths, and vapour paths.

We believe we have already the best vapes but I believe we still are a long way to go, we are at the 2G... maybe when we will be at 5G with scientificly monitored and regulated tools telling us a bunch of different things, I may reconsider maybe vaping again. This will only happen when we will have technical specs and health commissions that monitor the way in which these vapes are produced and the quality of the vapor. For the time being, I am happy to stay away from the unknown...

I respect your ability to stay away from the plant, but regardless of what you just said - vaping is still a helluva lot safer than smoking!

 

[howie105]

Everything comes with a price and for what MJ offers and demands its a price I am willing to pay. However as an advocate of that position I have to remember that there is a limit to how much people want to hear or I could turn myself into an inadvertent troll and hurt my own message.

 

[C No Ego]

I do not have a picture but found a 180 year old vaporizer from Australia! it is made of carved out wood and molded like a J shape with a screen on top with herb down below in the J section... to vaporize you place heated coals ( cinders) up on the top screen and pull heated air down through the herbs!! 180 years old!! so vaporizing is nowhere near what we term new technology...