Starting vaping for pain and PTSD

[Indigo]

Massage - ah, I wish. I did reasonably well with it until about a year an a half ago. Now it just flares up the fibro, specifically the trigger point clusters in my left hip and shoulder. That's even if you're just massaging my feet and calves! I have a fabulous massage therapist who has been doing myofascial release, hot stone therapy, trigger point work, you name it, but sadly I had to conclude that it was making me worse more often than it was making me better. If my current run of RSI persists I might see her again, as she was great when my partner got RSI from instrument playing.

Acupuncture - really mixed results, including being made markedly worse. The only one I ever found really helped lived hundreds of miles away. I might give it a shot some time. I'd love to find a medical acupuncturist who's basing it on real medical theory, rather than waffle which is approximately the same as medieval European theories of medicine, but they are few and far between. I'm not really up to trips out right now, I might see if anyone could do home visits, since I do have a massage table (bought shortly before I stopped being able to tolerate massage).

I'm currently experimenting with ice packs, I have a nice one that you strap to yourself. I think it's meant to be for knees, but I'm short and slim-hipped so I can wear it on my lower back.

EMDR sounds worth a shot some day, thanks for the recommendation.

The Solo is back, and fitted with nice little mesh thingies in both pipes. My friend is really going to miss it! Hopefully they'll be able to afford one really soon. They said it made all the difference when they were giving up baccy over the last few weeks. I'm grateful to them for all the help, and really proud of them for giving up smoking. They're looking at the better model of the Flowermate, I think, but very much in love with my Solo and yearning for that.

I've managed to get SOD (Sphincter of Oddi Dysfunction) twice recently due to not eating regularly enough when on tramadol . Fairly mild the other day, worse today. Blast that gallbladder surgery, it's what left me with this, and it means I can't take opiates at all and have to be careful about how often I eat when on opioids. I used to have to eat every two hours on it, but now I seem to be able to go for a lot longer - though evidently not quite as long as I think!

Water tools - well, I can't get above setting 3 on the Solo without coughing, and as it is I have to alternate it with sips of water. Is it worth making it possible to go higher? Come to that, is setting 2 worth a try? Setting 1 appears to be the genuine aromatherapy setting, it's much lower and does a nice job of a couple of drops of essential oil on a bit of cotton wool.

I looked at that list of effects at different temps, and was curious about some inconsistencies. There are effects that were reported at a range of temps with gaps in the middle, it was mainly that. Any idea how that works?

 

[t-dub]

EMDR sounds worth a shot some day, thanks for the recommendation.

You are welcome. Its amazing how the therapist anchors me with one foot in a safe place then I focus on the target and she gets my eyes moving back and forth. Visions come forth, sounds, even smells from the past. Amazingly enough with a few short sessions my trauma became much easier to look at and think about. It has to do with memories being laid down and not processed properly under traumatic stress. The eye movement which replicates REM sleep somehow undoes this. Its amazing really.

 

[Indigo]

Did it help with nightmares at all? I think it's something physiological triggering them, I've got my eye on some meds changes, as they got noticeably worse a couple of years ago and I've actually been very happy in that time. Going off one of the meds has stopped me struggling to breathe in my sleep, which is taking the edge off. It wasn't a pretty combination.

 

[t-dub]

Did it help with nightmares at all?

I don't really dream so I can't speak to this. I also am cleansing myself from pharmaceuticals, it helps.

 

[Indigo]

I'm glad you're able to do that, not many of us with chronic illnesses can! I've have died years ago without my mast cell meds, anaphylaxis is no joke, but ye gods, I get fed up with all the side effects and problems I get from meds.

Last night I decided to try slowly raising the temperature to see if I could. The good news is that I can access the higher temps without coughing if I ramp up the temperature slowly, and got all the way up to the top temp, running the vaper twice (mostly on 2-3 the first time). The bad news is that I slept badly and have been really ill today. I should never have gone out for that lunch with my partner and his mother (hell, I don't even like her), and should have turned round and headed home once we had been out of the house a few minutes and I realised I wasn't well enough to be out. So that's my sunshine allowance for the next few days, it seems, and now it's back to constructive resting. Tonight I think I will try temp 2 and see what that is like. I'd gone up to the higher ones as I read they were better for sleep. It wasn't as bad as when I had medibles and felt appalling the next day, but I did get the effect last night I sometimes get from vaping, which is that my muscles keep tensing up and it's hard to relax them again, let alone to sleep.

I have probably mentioned that I get unpleasant visual effects from weed. (People actually *want* those?!) There's not going to be any permanent damage, is there? I mean, I was already getting visual problems (neurological and muscular) as a result of the ME, that's been going on for over a decade, and my vision gets wobbly on prescription painkillers too. I just wanted to check.

 

[grokit]

Just curious @Indigo, what kind of visual effects? Floaters, artifacts, or full-on hallucinations?

 

[Indigo]

The basic version is problems with tracking, I think it's a lag, and the advanced version is that everything seems to be swaying about. I have never drunk or taken anything to alter my mood before trying this, so for all I know this is the sort of thing that's normal when drunk and that's why people don't make a fuss about it. Last night I think I was getting kaleidoscopic visual effects after I closed my eyes, I suppose that counts too, and I think that one may be when I'm not having a good time with the vaping.

ETA: I sometimes get very mild auditory hallucinations after I've vaped at night. I remember one time I was hearing a wordless whisper a bit and kept on muttering irritatedly, "Did you say something?" to my happily sleeping partner. But I was dropping off at the time, and while I'm not mad keen on this effect and wouldn't want it during the daytime, it's livable as a very mild, occasional thing at night. Serious hallucinations would definitely have me off this. A good friend of mine has schizophrenia, and I cannot imagine wanting to hallucinate.

The eye problems caused by ME are a mix of neurological and muscular. For instance, the primary feature of ME is that your muscles are weak and fatigue despite minimal or no exertion, so I have muscular fatigue in my eyes as well. This means that I'm not as good at tracking, though that manifests in problems such as jumping from the end of one line to the start of the next, not in having this weird delayed/lurching feeling when I look at the other side of the room. Also there was accommodative inertia. I can't remember what it means, but it's a great phrase! Photophobia and sensitivity to types of light and possibly colours. I can't read standard sized print any more, and I'm picky as hell about large print. There's more, and a few research papers have been done by now, but I'm having a huge ME crash today plus I just cautiously had about a minute's worth of vaping (setting 2), so I'm not too with it.

Going back more cautiously: should I start with setting 2 and a similarly small amount to last night? I think it's the same amount I was using before, only on setting 4 and then 3 when the coughing got worse. This is my first time in the 5-7 region.

 

[grokit]

That sounds pretty unique, I suppose if things are getting worse it's time to slow down.

 

[CarolKing]

@Indigo I hope you find something that helps you. It sounds like you have a lot of health issues that you are dealing with. Hopefully you have a support network, it sounds as though you do. Sometimes it's difficult to find the right healthcare professional. Most pharmaceuticals have a lot of side affects so you are probably dealing with that too.

I hope cannabis can help you with your health problems. Taking it slow is a wise suggestion.

 

[Indigo]

Temp 2 doesn't seem to be a good one for me, I've had sod-all sleep. It won't have helped that the pain flared up near bedtime and I can't take my pain meds at night. I think I'll have breakfast, take pain meds, and see if I can sleep then, because I really can't function in any way on four hours. I don't get any side effects from my everyday meds, by the way, just the as-needed pain meds.

If I don't start sleeping better on the vaping, I'll give up, as that's the only thing it helps. And the side effects are pretty significant, not as painful as the one I sometimes get from tramadol but far more disabling.

 

[Indigo]

It wasn't working out for me, so the vaper has gone off to its new home and I will be concentrating on legal (and more expensive!) herbs. Thank you all for your, it's been great.

 

[Beezleb]

Best of luck and I hope you find relief the issues that suffer you.

 

[Bravesst]

I am no expert but if your trying to free yourself from ptsd you need to also address that issue in addition to trying to lighten the load of it with a bandaid such as herb and the like or you will always find yourself slave to it.

Herb is a good tool to assist in your healing but it is not magically going to make you ok or "normal" as some may say.

It seems to me you are trying to be overly complicated in your thinking. Just relax and let doctors worry about the cortisol or what have you. You are not a doctor and you trying to read to the tea leaves without professional input is a foolish action that may harm you than help you as the aspect of what you do not know is likely great thus the potential to misunderstand what is really happening arises.

Vaping at different temps gives off different vapors that may or may not affect more than others. Generically just going higher temp may not equate to the outcome your looking for. [vaporpedia link removed due to malware]

Actually experiment on those temps and just do not think one temp is better than another based on any other aspect than what your tried. All anyone else can do is just give a recommendation. I would start at 356 and go up about every 10 degrees until you get to 385. After that, depending on what vaporizer your using it may be more problematic for your vaporizer to operate well at those temps. Such as bags and seals will tend to wear out faster but I am also not as well versed on the newest vaporizers in the market as I once was a handful of years ago so perhaps some are better suited for the higher temps.

If I need a heavy draw. I will go to 428 but this is rare and hard on seals. The higher the temp, the harsher it will typically be so if this is an issue, perhaps running through an ice chamber or something to chill it might help you.

Looks like your in an unfriendly area but if you are able to get some CBD herb or extracts I would suggest them. Though it seems this is easier said than done.

Remember, herb is a tool in the medical treatment, not a magic miracle plant that can cure all. It will not. I say this with genuine meaning to you. "Fear not what causes your issues for it is likely in that fear, that your issue gains power over you." Destroy that fear emotion to it and you will take a grand step forward to freedom.

Best of luck and Ja Bless!

Amazing, from an ex FDNY fireman with PTSD. thank you!

 

[fernand]

Unfortunately its not a magic bullet.

I was not able to read what type of herb your using. Using the right strain for your medical issues will do much more than if your just able to get what you can get herb wise. For pain I like the more narcotic knock you out kind of thing for nighttime.
....

@Indigo, welcome welcome! what @Beezleb is saying is essential. You are grasping at some assumptions here, in considering cannabis "one thing". The temperature is just one of many variables in pulling "things" from the plant. There are at least 2 dozen active compounds in Cannabis, and they interact in very complex ways, by reinforcing each other and by blocking each other at the cannabinoid receptors, of which CB1 and CB2 are (only) the most studied to date. Our bodies contain natural cannabinoids, just as they contain natural opiates, and this is why these psychoactive plants produce such strong effects.

The different cannabis Strains are not like wine varietals, different strains have very different properties, to the point where under double blind conditions, I wouldn't guess that say a Purple Kush is the same drug as a Red Congolese. At one time two species existed: a more sedating Cannabis Indica, and a more stimulating and mind-bending Cannabis Sativa. They have now been hybridized to the point where the terma "indica" and "sativa" are more descriptive of effects than of the actual genetics. Still, while you can amplify or subdue specific parts of a strain's profile by adjusting the temperature, you're no more likely to turn a Purple Kush into a Red Congolese with temperature than turning a poppy pod into a coca leaf.

In the UK your access to clean and distinct strains may not be a easy as in Colorado or California, but seek and ye shall find: there surely are some knowledgeable cannabinists everywhere. I would humbly suggest you explore leafly.com as one site that has gathered a lot of strain profiles and strain "reviews" by users, some more cogent than others.

In addition to the strain, that being the most powerful determinant of effects, we also observe that the maturity of the plant at harvest, the curing/ageing and how the plant was handled, all interact to define the properties of the herb you acquire. Temperature of vaping is like fractional distillation. It can (to a degree) selectively pick off the more stimulating compounds (at low temp) and the most sedating ones (at high temp). Look at the chart of boiling temps for the most important compounds in the herb's resin. The ones labeled C are the Cannabinoids, the Ts are Terpenes, and the Fs are Flavanoids. Our understanding of the contribution of these compounds is still very limited.

One of the major analytical houses has been standardizing on a "fingerprint" like this for each distinctly recognizable strain. For instance here is Purple Kush, well known as a highly sedating mostly "indica" strain:

Eating and inhaling cannabis produce different effects too. One reason is that first pass metabolism by the liver from the stomach/intestines converts some of the constituents more than others. Overall eaten cannabis tends to be more sedating.

Analgesia isn't necessarily strongest with the most sedating strains, and there are cases of highly site-specific pain relief. I suffer from sciatica, and I've found a specific family of strains that (much to my amazement) selectively targets the nerve roots in the lumbar region, while centrally being a "wake and bake" varietal, good with morning coffee, anything but a sedative.

So move slowly, take your time, there's more here than meets the eye, and many opportunities for nearly miraculous relief.

Oh, yes on more important issues: Everyone reacts differently, to a degree. The more specialized the effects, the more unique the patient who feels them. It's like a big complex chord played on a huge pipe organ, we hear different notes louder, and where we sit in the hall determines which notes vibrate strongest.

 

[fernand]

BTW, @Indigo, the Medical profession is generally ignorant in this area, but divided, with its most powerful lobbyists squarely landing in bed with the police and prohibitionist types. Even in the UK, it's wise to not expect too much of your physician. Another reason to move slowly. Don't jump to conclusions.

 

[Bravesst]

It's an easy choice, I'd give up all other meds (PTSD) in a heart beat, nothing comes close to the effect of vaping cannabis has on my anxiety levels... I know we're all different, and I have no physical pain issue (thank you God), but for straight up mental / emotional issues, I'll sip my Mighty every time...
It's gonna change, got to...

 

[fernand]

This is such a nasty issue that it deserves maybe its own thread. For emotional issues I'd agree, cannabis is far better, but for people with hard core physical pain, it's NOT an easy choice. Opiates are more reliable analgesics and on average produce less mental clouding. It's the combination that is ideal. And it's this very combination that is banned.

 

[Indigo]

Hello again! I didn't realise that there were messages since I last posted, and have just caught up.

In general news, my pain levels have been up and down, I've learned the hard way that I can't take my pain meds (tramadol plus diazepam) more than twice a week, I still can't take tramadol at night or opiates at all, and I'm so shouty in my sleep that my partner tends to sleep in his flat on work nights, because it's disturbing his sleep so much. I've found that a TENS machine is reasonably good for daytime pain relief, though again I can't use that at night. I did try a course of treatment with a medical acupuncturist who's also a chiropractor, but no joy.

Also I am renting a harp and having great fun with it. I definitely wouldn't want dodgy vision for that!

The vaper stayed with my friend S, who did indeed quit smoking tobacco thanks to having it, and is getting along beautifully with it.

I'm thinking of trying again, especially in light of the later comments here about how much it varies with the strain. Probably not vaping this time, medibles, and initially going for sleep rather than pain relief. This recipe for infused coconut oil sounds worth trying. I've realised that one mistake I made with medibles last time was to do them in a half-arsed fashion with ABV, and another was inconsistent dosing. With this recipe, it sounds like I can make up a batch, portion it out in a mini ice cube tray (the cells are 1 x 1 x 1cm, which is 1ml but seems like it should be more) and have exact doses to play with. I'm already fond of melting chocolate together with coconut oil and/or peanut butter, and apparently that works well with it. I also like the idea of only having to make up a batch every now and again, rather than having the place reeking of weed on a regular basis. It's not a smell I can handle much of before it stops being pleasant, and the odd bit that wafts up into the loo or bathroom from the downstairs neighbours is about my limit on that. (Where are they smoking it? I'm pretty sure their loo and bathroom are under ours, and both are the size of cupboards.)

I've not had a chance yet to have a proper chat with S about what sort of herb I may be able to get hold of here. Any suggestions? Does that recipe sound like a good one? I'll do it properly, get an oven thermometer and so forth.

Someone in the very long thread on that page talks about using the oil topically for vulvodynia, in particular for muscle spasms. Does anyone know more about that? It's a common problem amongst those of us with fibromyalgia, and while stretches and such are useful, they only get you so far.

 

[grokit]

Hello again! I didn't realise that there were messages since I last posted, and have just caught up.

In general news, my pain levels have been up and down, I've learned the hard way that I can't take my pain meds (tramadol plus diazepam) more than twice a week, I still can't take tramadol at night or opiates at all, and I'm so shouty in my sleep that my partner tends to sleep in his flat on work nights, because it's disturbing his sleep so much. I've found that a TENS machine is reasonably good for daytime pain relief, though again I can't use that at night. I did try a course of treatment with a medical acupuncturist who's also a chiropractor, but no joy.

Also I am renting a harp and having great fun with it. I definitely wouldn't want dodgy vision for that!

The vaper stayed with my friend S, who did indeed quit smoking tobacco thanks to having it, and is getting along beautifully with it.

I'm thinking of trying again, especially in light of the later comments here about how much it varies with the strain. Probably not vaping this time, medibles, and initially going for sleep rather than pain relief. This recipe for infused coconut oil sounds worth trying. I've realised that one mistake I made with medibles last time was to do them in a half-arsed fashion with ABV, and another was inconsistent dosing. With this recipe, it sounds like I can make up a batch, portion it out in a mini ice cube tray (the cells are 1 x 1 x 1cm, which is 1ml but seems like it should be more) and have exact doses to play with. I'm already fond of melting chocolate together with coconut oil and/or peanut butter, and apparently that works well with it. I also like the idea of only having to make up a batch every now and again, rather than having the place reeking of weed on a regular basis. It's not a smell I can handle much of before it stops being pleasant, and the odd bit that wafts up into the loo or bathroom from the downstairs neighbours is about my limit on that. (Where are they smoking it? I'm pretty sure their loo and bathroom are under ours, and both are the size of cupboards.)

I've not had a chance yet to have a proper chat with S about what sort of herb I may be able to get hold of here. Any suggestions? Does that recipe sound like a good one? I'll do it properly, get an oven thermometer and so forth.

Someone in the very long thread on that page talks about using the oil topically for vulvodynia, in particular for muscle spasms. Does anyone know more about that? It's a common problem amongst those of us with fibromyalgia, and while stretches and such are useful, they only get you so far.

Garbage in, garbage out, so make sure you use the good stuff so it's as potent as possible. Also think about the cannabinoid ratio for the effects you want so you have an idea of the kind of strain to go after. That looks like a good recipe, it's quite specific so be sure to let us know how it works out for you. For best effect ingest whatever you make on an empty stomach, but don't go overboard (at least at first), because edibles can hit you very hard even if you think you're ready for them. Have you tried concentrates for pain?

 

[Bravesst]

You are welcome. Its amazing how the therapist anchors me with one foot in a safe place then I focus on the target and she gets my eyes moving back and forth. Visions come forth, sounds, even smells from the past. Amazingly enough with a few short sessions my trauma became much easier to look at and think about. It has to do with memories being laid down and not processed properly under traumatic stress. The eye movement which replicates REM sleep somehow undoes this. Its amazing really.

The FDNY is now using it. It;s actually bilateral stimulation of the brain... intense stuff, but it works!!

 

[Indigo]

Also think about the cannabinoid ratio for the effects you want so you have an idea of the kind of strain to go after.

I have no idea where to begin with that. You evidently have a depth of knowledge that I don't. That's why I'm asking for suggestions!

Concentrates - nope, I haven't tried them. I'm not even entirely sure what you're referring to, there are so many products on the market and so much slang. (I have cognitive problems including memory loss, so please be patient with my difficulty in researching and then remembering this.)

Could people tell me more about CBD, too? Is it worth trying, and if so in which form? Is it a waste of money? How do I know what's genuine?

 

[grokit]

Concentrates - nope, I haven't tried them. I'm not even entirely sure what you're referring to, there are so many products on the market and so much slang.

I don't have much experience with them either, but I am interested in trying them. They are just that, the concentrated active ingredients of cannabis without the plant matter. There are reportedly many varieties in the legal stores of varying types and quality, or if you don't have access you can make your own from flowers or even sugar leaves with a variety of methods.

I am in the process of setting up a heated rosin press (2 diff links), which can be accomplished in a variety of ways and is one of the simplest and cleanest methods of extraction from flowers. Other methods involve cooking, or blasting with chemical solvents and then purging the chemicals.

edit: Dabbing is the preferred method of directly vaporizing the more concentrated concentrates.

 

[Bravesst]

I personally prefer flowers... no matter what, I always go back to dry herb...

 

[Mirimi]

@Indigo
I also think that for this kind of widespread pain high-temp vaping (stepping temps and water filtration helps with the coughing) and edibles are the way to go.

Lyrica is a bitch, but really effective for some people. If you taper it you should be able to get off it without any problems (had trouble quitting gabapentin too). The side effects, especially when mixed with other meds or cannabis are rough. I used to fall all the time on it, and even had seizures so had to stop it.

There are several salves/ointments recipes in the cooking for cannabis section of FC, but I haven't tried them. For localized relief I found lidocaine patches help a lot too.

Good luck!

 

[VapourHaze]

I have no idea where to begin with that. You evidently have a depth of knowledge that I don't. That's why I'm asking for suggestions!

Concentrates - nope, I haven't tried them. I'm not even entirely sure what you're referring to, there are so many products on the market and so much slang. (I have cognitive problems including memory loss, so please be patient with my difficulty in researching and then remembering this.)

Could people tell me more about CBD, too? Is it worth trying, and if so in which form? Is it a waste of money? How do I know what's genuine?

There is a thread here on fc regarding cbd products available in the uk. Have a search and it should come up.