SSRI , SNRI and SARI

[EverythingsHazy]

The DSM and these legally F.alsifying D.ocuments A.lways approved poisons are NOT good at all. In fact you're killing yourself! Think patients for profit not for curing. It's right in your face!

There has NEVER been and there still is NO WAY to measure exactly what the chemicals in the brain do, how they work with others in the body exactly and brain and how much is released from the brain and other glands and such. Think dosages here people!

Yay to guessing and telling the duped masses it's good for you. Just go look up the fucking deadly ingredients people!

Do you really care for your health or is it better to hit the lazy easy button. Read and comprehend what I've stated here folks. Don't change the topic I've brought up. It's specific.

You can't argue with 100% factual truths. If you do you've been brainwashed into someone's reality other than yours. Yeah it stings but it's up to you to swallow the red pill and awaken.

It's called a real diet, exercise and healthy thoughts and people in your life. It's simple!

There are only a few yes a FEW true mental illnesses. The others are made for the suckers and for lining the pockets of the corporations and their backers. Nuff said.... drops the damn mic!

- formerly a duped poison taker now I'm educated, awake and even better truly ALIVE!

If you think the DSM is a "falsifying document", think there are very few true mental disorders, and think medications for psychiatric disorders aren't beneficial, you are clearly uneducated on the matter, and shouldn't be giving advice.

"Real diet, exercise, healthy thoughts, and people in your life" are all beneficial, but by no means, even close to being able to cure many afflictions. If you think those things will cure Bi-Polar disorder, schizophrenia, etc., you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but that's the reality. The amount of uninformed commentary about psychological/psychiatric health on this forum is way too high. It's understandable that it is the way it is, given the biased demographic here, but it still needs to be called out, so others don't get brainwashed by the nonsense.

You can seriously ruin someone's life by giving them bad/uneducated medical advice. A lot of people need to be medicated with prescription drugs to function properly, and to live happy/healthy lives. When they hear stuff like this on a cannabis forum, and believe it, they are likely to resist proper treatment.

 

[little maggie]

This is well said. Many are making suggestions based on "someone they know or heard about" which has nothing to do with the experiences of many people. There are exceptions, there are doctors or prescribers who are less knowledgeable than others. Yes the DSM is a political document but again, for those of us who have depression or bipolar disorder and who have tried non-prescription solutions without success the choice can be misery or meds.

At the same time, our experiences have to be included. I've taken a subclinical dose of wellbutrin for years. If I take the minimal clinical dose I feel horrible. But if I go without taking it at all I end up in a deep hole. Even with cannabis.
Several years ago a new psychiatrist wanted to change my meds and we went through a long process of trying most of the newer antidepressants. After a year of this he suggested that I just go back to my low level of wellbutrin.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

It's called a real diet, exercise and healthy thoughts and people in your life. It's simple!

It's not so simple for everyone, but - diet, exercise and healthy thoughts (interpreted as cognitive therapy) can be as effective as pharmaceuticals for many depressed patients. If similar results are observed in anxious patients, then it makes sense for the OP to exhaust non-pharmaceutical interventions before trying pharmaceuticals.

Agree that neuroses have been over-diagnosed and pharmaceuticals over-prescribed to treat them. In addition, many of these pharmaceuticals are attempts to replicate the success, therapeutic and monetary, of Prozac. If a pharmaceutical is eventually prescribed, it should always be accompanied by regular talk therapy sessions, at a minimum.

 

[little maggie]

So how should the medical community respond to the many people with depression who refuse therapy and insist on medication? Treat them the way the medical community is now starting to treat those who want opiates?

 

[chris 71]

Just chiming back in here had my 4th cbt session today . perhaps thats something that should be offerd more . im also exercising but for me that is the best medicine i have ever had . when im strong in my body im strong in my mind . the post i deleted was me telling that i had been diagnosed with schzoeffetive diaorder over ten years ago . but then i recanted or chickened out about devaluing that much personal info anout my self but screw it there it is . now i did try all kinds of antipsychotic meds and tranqulizers and everything .

Then i had some whacky side effects stuff i dont even want to mention here like seriously fucked up shit lol
Like i could either try and learn to live with the schzoeffetive stuff , or i could turn into and guy with man boobs that may actuly lactate and a dick that no longer worked and a host of other shit .

So i said screw that shit and stopped going to the shrink and taking any of there pills .

I eventully learned to ingnor a lot of the symptoms and even went back to work which i had been ofisically off from on a disabillty penision.

And as much as shrinks warned about weed it helped me it helped me most when i would start thining shit like people at work were possibly conspiring against me and shit , i wpuld just go have a puff and itvwas like there was a shift in my head were i could ignor the voices in my head and be like naw shut the fuck up nobody is doing nothing to me no man there not saying that . and continue on .

That kind of shit for example . fast foward to my life now and i cant wven use it now since gwtting this stupid graves diaease and quiting for a while now i just get anxity like crazy which is why i was vonsidering the pills .

But really pills arent for me i just cant swallow them they make me pariniod

I do use bezos and tylonal i guess maybe because i have used them so long and never had any freaky effects from them .

Also i dont know if its possible or not but i think my schizoeffect stuff went intonremmision or something or lessend or something and comes back in times of high stress .

Anyway i havnt had any weed in like 16 or 17 days now and even before that onlyva tiny amount like a gram or two in like a few months .

And i cant get my self to take the ssri so im just going with what i know best exercise. I was at the hospital just a couple weeks ago when i started this thread at the crisis ward when i did finaly see the shrink he would not even liaten to me talked to me for like 5 min kept looking at his watch and not really even caring about what i was say only insisting on pushing the drugs on me i did not feel comfortable trusting my health in his hands at all .

The CBT guy is way better actully listens to the patient how is a dovtor supossed to help a patieant when they juat automaticly think they are just supiorour to youvor something screw the shrink guy the ome i seen anyway

Edit just want to add this is only my experience and i belive if meds work for you you are lucky and should use what works anything i have written here is not to sway anyones desion on weather you chose to use them or not but you may want to ask about CBT therapy to use as well do what you have to to stay well everbody

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

So how should the medical community respond to the many people with depression who refuse therapy and insist on medication? Treat them the way the medical community is now starting to treat those who want opiates?

How is that? At their initial consultations, providers can generally try to persuade patients that they can expect better results if medications are prescribed in the context of a broader course of therapy. It shouldn't be difficult, but there will always be special cases that require professional judgment.

 

[herbivore21]

Just chiming back in here had my 4th cbt session today . perhaps thats something that should be offerd more . im also exercising but for me that is the best medicine i have ever had . when im strong in my body im strong in my mind . the post i deleted was me telling that i had been diagnosed with schzoeffetive diaorder over ten years ago . but then i recanted or chickened out about devaluing that much personal info anout my self but screw it there it is . now i did try all kinds of antipsychotic meds and tranqulizers and everything .

Then i had some whacky side effects stuff i dont even want to mention here like seriously fucked up shit lol
Like i could either try and learn to live with the schzoeffetive stuff , or i could turn into and guy with man boobs that may actuly lactate and a dick that no longer worked and a host of other shit .

So i said screw that shit and stopped going to the shrink and taking any of there pills .

I eventully learned to ingnor a lot of the symptoms and even went back to work which i had been ofisically off from on a disabillty penision.

And as much as shrinks warned about weed it helped me it helped me most when i would start thining shit like people at work were possibly conspiring against me and shit , i wpuld just go have a puff and itvwas like there was a shift in my head were i could ignor the voices in my head and be like naw shut the fuck up nobody is doing nothing to me no man there not saying that . and continue on .

That kind of shit for example . fast foward to my life now and i cant wven use it now since gwtting this stupid graves diaease and quiting for a while now i just get anxity like crazy which is why i was vonsidering the pills .

But really pills arent for me i just cant swallow them they make me pariniod

I do use bezos and tylonal i guess maybe because i have used them so long and never had any freaky effects from them .

Also i dont know if its possible or not but i think my schizoeffect stuff went intonremmision or something or lessend or something and comes back in times of high stress .

Anyway i havnt had any weed in like 16 or 17 days now and even before that onlyva tiny amount like a gram or two in like a few months .

And i cant get my self to take the ssri so im just going with what i know best exercise. I was at the hospital just a couple weeks ago when i started this thread at the crisis ward when i did finaly see the shrink he would not even liaten to me talked to me for like 5 min kept looking at his watch and not really even caring about what i was say only insisting on pushing the drugs on me i did not feel comfortable trusting my health in his hands at all .

The CBT guy is way better actully listens to the patient how is a dovtor supossed to help a patieant when they juat automaticly think they are just supiorour to youvor something screw the shrink guy the ome i seen anyway

Edit just want to add this is only my experience and i belive if meds work for you you are lucky and should use what works anything i have written here is not to sway anyones desion on weather you chose to use them or not but you may want to ask about CBT therapy to use as well do what you have to to stay well everbody

The problem for CBT (which is actually found to be quite effective for all kinds of mental difficulties in the research literature) is that to get it, someone has to pay for more of a Psychologist/Psychiatrist's time to get this treatment than to get a prescription for some medication. The costs of ongoing CBT that will bring clinically effective outcomes can be (depending on the medications in question and local costs of that medicine, of course) comparatively very expensive compared to writing a prescription. Many patients try the medication because it is the option that they can afford, not because it has the best prospects.

Basically, YMMV depending on your access to health care.

Also I just wanted to say kudos for not beating yourself up for your diagnosis bro. Psychotic conditions carry too much stigma in our society, and that is so unfair and unreasonable! You have my best wishes in learning to treat and manage your condition! Glad to hear you have gotten into work again too brother - that is admirable functioning for what can be such a debilitating set of symptoms!

One thing that might be considered is that Graves Disease can involve hyperthyroidism, which can in turn cause psychosis and a variety of other challenging mental health symptoms. Consider that if your diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder came after the Graves' diagnosis, that the schizoaffective disorder diagnosis may not be warranted. The DSM V highlights that a diagnosis of Schizoaffective Disorder should only be given in the event that:
"The disturbance is not attributable to the effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or another medical condition."

In your case, psychotic illness and mood episodes that may otherwise meet criteria for schizoaffective disorder may have been better explained by the mood and psychotic symptoms caused by a pre-existing Graves' Disease.

If you did get diagnosed with Graves' first, before the schizoaffective disorder, or if your doctors believe that you have had Graves' disease for longer than you have had the schizoaffective disorder, then you should perhaps ask your doctors to reconsider the diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder, as this may be better explained by symptoms of Graves'

I am not a medical doctor, and the above does not take the place of medical advice. You'll note I've said above that this is still going to depend on the opinion of your doctors as to which came first, the Graves' or the Psychotic/Mood symptoms. In the end, your doctors are the ones who must make this differential diagnostic judgement.

In my own experience, it is very important to have a qualified health-care provider investigate these kinds of differential diagnostic questions, since very often, we can get diagnosed with psychological illnesses when the underlying explanation for the psychological difficulties is actually physiological. Differential diagnostics can be very confusing and are necessarily limited by the familiarity of your clinicians with a broad variety of kinds of diagnoses - which will vary from clinician to clinician. Put simply, good doctors can sometimes neglect to consider an important alternative diagnosis during differential because they don't necessarily know of all of the potentially relevant conditions that need to be ruled out at the time (which can be a confusingly wide variety of diagnostically similar conditions)!

I wish you all the best in your treatment and management of your conditions brother! Take care of yourself

If I may ask, only if it is not too personal; what was it about your Graves' diagnosis which made you no longer able to use cannabis?

 

[little maggie]

How is that? At their initial consultations, providers can generally try to persuade patients that they can expect better results if medications are prescribed in the context of a broader course of therapy. It shouldn't be difficult, but there will always be special cases that require professional judgment.

I think there is a quite a bit more reluctance to do therapy or even do online CBT if recommended by a doctor than you may be aware of.
Just want to say that I am in total agreement that exercise and therapy makes a huge difference. There is research that exercise may take longer to work but can be as effective as medications. But there are quite a few people who would rather just take a pill than put effort into exercise or therapy. Where I live some of the medical organizations offer free online treatment for depression or anxiety. Also free skype sessions with therapists or low copay for therapy appointments or prescriber appointments. Still these are not as popular as just taking pills.
SSRI's are not the only effective medication and they seem to have the worst sexual side effects for both genders.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

What people don't realize, is that certain things can't be talked/exercised/thought away. You can't expect running or talking to make the voices in a schizophrenic's head disappear. You can't just work through Bi-Polar Disorder, which is why medication is needed.

Does living an overall healthy lifestyle help? Sure. It helps everything, because being healthy is always better than being unhealthy. If you're gonna have a disorder, having everything else in order will be better than having other issues to deal with, but it won't necessarily treat/cure it at all.

Also, many of these medications have potential side-effects. They don't just cause the negatives in everyone that takes them. Many people won't experience any of those side-effects, and if they do experience some, they often won't be so severe that the trade-off isn't worth it. There are also different options for medicines in the same categories. If one antidepressant or antipsychotic doesn't work for someone, or has a bad side-effect, another drug of that type might be completely different. Writing them all off, because they have the potential for negative reactions, is ignorant. People here seem to believe that if you take an antidepressant or antipsychotic, that you're automatically gonna start having terrible effects. That's far from true.

Everything has potential for negatives. You have to be properly educated on them (not by going to forums and websites that are clearly biased, and asking for opinions of the members there), before you can make a truly educated decision. If you are getting your information about prescription drugs from any site with a Cannabis related title, you are likely going to end up being badly misinformed, and led to believe that modern medicines are bad for you.

I'm going to make a seperate thread about modern medicine especially in regards to psychological health issues.

 

[chris 71]

The problem for CBT (which is actually found to be quite effective for all kinds of mental difficulties in the research literature) is that to get it, someone has to pay for more of a Psychologist/Psychiatrist's time to get this treatment than to get a prescription for some medication. The costs of ongoing CBT that will bring clinically effective outcomes can be (depending on the medications in question and local costs of that medicine, of course) comparatively very expensive compared to writing a prescription. Many patients try the medication because it is the option that they can afford, not because it has the best prospects.

Basically, YMMV depending on your access to health care.

Also I just wanted to say kudos for not beating yourself up for your diagnosis bro. Psychotic conditions carry too much stigma in our society, and that is so unfair and unreasonable! You have my best wishes in learning to treat and manage your condition! Glad to hear you have gotten into work again too brother - that is admirable functioning for what can be such a debilitating set of symptoms!

One thing that might be considered is that Graves Disease can involve hyperthyroidism, which can in turn cause psychosis and a variety of other challenging mental health symptoms. Consider that if your diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder came after the Graves' diagnosis, that the schizoaffective disorder diagnosis may not be warranted. The DSM V highlights that a diagnosis of Schizoaffective Disorder should only be given in the event that:
"The disturbance is not attributable to the effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or another medical condition."

In your case, psychotic illness and mood episodes that may otherwise meet criteria for schizoaffective disorder may have been better explained by the mood and psychotic symptoms caused by a pre-existing Graves' Disease.

If you did get diagnosed with Graves' first, before the schizoaffective disorder, or if your doctors believe that you have had Graves' disease for longer than you have had the schizoaffective disorder, then you should perhaps ask your doctors to reconsider the diagnosis of schizoaffective disorder, as this may be better explained by symptoms of Graves'

I am not a medical doctor, and the above does not take the place of medical advice. You'll note I've said above that this is still going to depend on the opinion of your doctors as to which came first, the Graves' or the Psychotic/Mood symptoms. In the end, your doctors are the ones who must make this differential diagnostic judgement.

In my own experience, it is very important to have a qualified health-care provider investigate these kinds of differential diagnostic questions, since very often, we can get diagnosed with psychological illnesses when the underlying explanation for the psychological difficulties is actually physiological. Differential diagnostics can be very confusing and are necessarily limited by the familiarity of your clinicians with a broad variety of kinds of diagnoses - which will vary from clinician to clinician. Put simply, good doctors can sometimes neglect to consider an important alternative diagnosis during differential because they don't necessarily know of all of the potentially relevant conditions that need to be ruled out at the time (which can be a confusingly wide variety of diagnostically similar conditions)!

I wish you all the best in your treatment and management of your conditions brother! Take care of yourself

If I may ask, only if it is not too personal; what was it about your Graves' diagnosis which made you no longer able to use cannabis?

totally get everything you say here herbivore21

i guess i should consider my self lucky that i live in canada and i dont have to pay for the CBT . its given at the hospital out patient program all i had to do was ask for it .

as for the misdiagnosis , this is something i wondered as well although it dosent appear so . as the mental health diagnosis came first quite a while ago 10 years or so . i did have blood test done back then and i would think that they would have checked for thyroid problems but who knows .

also the endo doctor told me last year when i had first been diagnosised with the graves disease that he thought it was something that was fairly recent . as for the not being able to use the cannabis know it all started when i got the bright idea to try and stop just to see if i could and what would happen after a long time use .

what happened truely sucks . after a week my thyriod levels which had been stable for like 4 months on a very low dose of antithyriod meds suddenly jumped high again . and i ended up with a couple trips to the emerge . then got my tyriod level stable again , after about a month and a half . but i had to take two and a half times as much of the antithyriod meds as i had to take when using the weed .

and i guess i had lowered my tolerence at the same time so i had been trying to reintroduce the cannabis but every time i do know i have such bad axnity that i just havnt been able to get my tolerence back up .even when i try cbd only i get anxity lol it really sucks

 

[chris 71]

If one antidepressant or antipsychotic doesn't work for someone, or has a bad side-effect, another drug of that type might be completely different. Writing them all off, because they have the potential for negative reactions, is ignorant. People here seem to believe that if you take an antidepressant or antipsychotic, that you're automatically gonna start having terrible effects. That's far from true.

Everything has potential for negatives. You have to be properly educated on them (not by going to forums and websites that are clearly biased, and asking for opinions of the members there), before you can make a truly educated decision. If you are getting your information about prescription drugs from any site with a Cannabis related title, you are likely going to end up being badly misinformed, and led to believe that modern medicines are bad for you.

I'm going to make a seperate thread about modern medicine especially in regards to psychological health issues.

i agree with you for the most part , and also agree that medicine is good for a lot of people . im not sure if your comment is addressed toward me or more so just in general to anyone who might read this .

but if you are speaking to me in particular about making a decision about these drugs especially the antipsycotics . i can tell you i did go through the trying this one for a month or two , and then trying another one for a month or two and then another ect ect . and everyone made me fell worse then without
and there are law suits out there that have been settled in the hundreds of millions for damages caused by these drugs i know of one that i was on actully zyperex or olanzipine that had a 600 million dollar law suit and its still being perscribed and in fact they wanted to give it to me again just like two weeks ago .

i have also seen patients start going to the out patient clinic and they looked like a healty weight and then see then like a couple or few months latter and they had gained like a 100 pounds

so maybe for somebody who is tottaly off there rocker and like a dangerous then ok but man oh man for me no thank you sir

i even wonder maybe my graves could be a result of expouser to some of these meds

 

[little maggie]

For women especially many of these cause weight gain which is unfortunate. I know that SSRI's are usually the first drugs tried before others like Wellbutrin or Effexor are prescribed. And I've been fortunate with Wellbutrin because some people have bad side effects from it. It's sometimes used along with SSRI's to cut back the sexual side effects. The newer antipsychtics like zyprexa are often prescribed, where I live, when sntidepressants haven't worked. Not for people who are psychotic or even have psychotic depression. Just severe depression. But the weight gain, especially for women, can be pretty intolerable.

 

[C No Ego]

i agree with you for the most part , and also agree that medicine is good for a lot of people . im not sure if your comment is addressed toward me or more so just in general to anyone who might read this .

but if you are speaking to me in particular about making a decision about these drugs especially the antipsycotics . i can tell you i did go through the trying this one for a month or two , and then trying another one for a month or two and then another ect ect . and everyone made me fell worse then without
and there are law suits out there that have been settled in the hundreds of millions for damages caused by these drugs i know of one that i was on actully zyperex or olanzipine that had a 600 million dollar law suit and its still being perscribed and in fact they wanted to give it to me again just like two weeks ago .

i have also seen patients start going to the out patient clinic and they looked like a healty weight and then see then like a couple or few months latter and they had gained like a 100 pounds

so maybe for somebody who is tottaly off there rocker and like a dangerous then ok but man oh man for me no thank you sir

i even wonder maybe my graves could be a result of expouser to some of these meds

this is not medical advise just common knowledge... any medication offered from pharma doctors etc will be ( active agents= molecules ) with some type of target parameter... what are cannabis phyto-cannabinoids? answer= active agents that target the ECS etc... that is all I'm saying about that

and @chris 71 please look into the cannabimimetics I posted about earlier especially the whole black peppercorns to alleviate anxiety... you can use citicoline too with cannabis use to offset thc anxiety effects if you experience that with use... use 3 to 5 times more citicoline than the thc that is consumed...

 

[chris 71]

thanks C No Ego i have read about the peppercorns and citicoline . i will check out the cannabimimetics more i did google it but what i clicked on seemed pretty advanced reading .

anyway , today i decided to vape some cbd only stuff i have , it says 9 % cbd and under 1 % thc so there maybe a touch of thc in it .

this was my first time trying again in about 16 or 17 day . and well , what a nice surprise no anxiety this time !! actually some nice relaxation and the most impressive thing is it had a very good effect on my blood pressure .

i have been monitoring my blood pressure daily for quite some weeks now maybe a month or so every day when my thyriod was acting up it was up as high as 149 over 93 .

when before i got this graves crap i always had good blood pressure . anyway im getting back in to normal ranges for the last couple weeks or so with my thyriod levels , and my blood pressure .
it hasnt been too bad either say , in and around 120 something up to around 130 something over around high 70 to mid 80 . but i just took my blood pressure today a few hours after the cbd vap .
and on two different machines

and wow im getting 109 to 115 over 76 to 83 this is very pleasing for me to see . i am going to have another dose or two today and see how it goes i might even mix some 7 % thc stuff half and half with the 9 % cbd stuff and see how that goes . it is still my plan to slowly introduce the cannabis back into my system along with exercising . but this blood pressure thing i just noticed is great to see it really looks like the cbd had an impact for the good

 

[C No Ego]

thanks C No Ego i have read about the peppercorns and citicoline . i will check out the cannabimimetics more i did google it but what i clicked on seemed pretty advanced reading .

anyway , today i decided to vape some cbd only stuff i have , it says 9 % cbd and under 1 % thc so there maybe a touch of thc in it .

this was my first time trying again in about 16 or 17 day . and well , what a nice surprise no anxiety this time !! actually some nice relaxation and the most impressive thing is it had a very good effect on my blood pressure .

i have been monitoring my blood pressure daily for quite some weeks now maybe a month or so every day when my thyriod was acting up it was up as high as 149 over 93 .

when before i got this graves crap i always had good blood pressure . anyway im getting back in to normal ranges for the last couple weeks or so with my thyriod levels , and my blood pressure .
it hasnt been too bad either say , in and around 120 something up to around 130 something over around high 70 to mid 80 . but i just took my blood pressure today a few hours after the cbd vap .
and on two different machines

and wow im getting 109 to 115 over 76 to 83 this is very pleasing for me to see . i am going to have another dose or two today and see how it goes i might even mix some 7 % thc stuff half and half with the 9 % cbd stuff and see how that goes . it is still my plan to slowly introduce the cannabis back into my system along with exercising . but this blood pressure thing i just noticed is great to see it really looks like the cbd had an impact for the good

glad to help... without having to read it elsewhere please check it- the beta caryophyllene in black pepper stalls the metabolic break down of thc while thc actively modulates cb receptor signalling... simple as that... cbd too does the same thing, stalls/prolongs thc activity... this allows thc to trigger/toggle signalling more efficiently/ longer and directs metabolism more efficiently... why it works, the volatile nature of caryophyllene directs how it interacts with intracellular signals (receptors)... the quicker the compound evaporates the quicker it is recognized for signalling... this allows volatility to guide receptor signalling... cbd/ thc are heavier more stable compounds that take more effort to signal with @ the receptor
a quick run down...
beta caryophyllene is an inverse agonist @ the cb1 receptor...
thc is an agonist compound @ cb1 receptor
cbd is an antagonist compound @ cb2 receptor

as an inverse agonist the black pepper works like cbd does @ receptors just through channels not directly related to cb receptor signalling..
I felt the same way upon researching what it is that is happening with all this receptor signalling talk and have been glad I started to plow through the research 8 years ago

 

[SamuraiSam]

People here seem to believe that if you take an antidepressant or antipsychotic, that you're automatically gonna start having terrible effects. That's far from true.

I disagree strongly. Having been on over 25 different pharmaceutical antidepressants and antipsychotics I can say it is very true and the side effects are disastrous each and every time.

Everything has potential for negatives. You have to be properly educated on them (not by going to forums and websites that are clearly biased, and asking for opinions of the members there), before you can make a truly educated decision.

When your brain function is diminished on pharmaceutical antipsychotics or antidepressants it is not possible for you to make a truly educated decision and the doctor prescribing your medication and "helping you try" a variety and/or cocktail of drugs as instructed by pharmaceutical companies, conversing with you about your moods and mental state is receiving inaccurate information from a malfunctioning brain that is literally having neurotransmitter function disrupted, disabled, blocked, agitated, and/or terminated.

 

[little maggie]

I disagree strongly. Having been on over 25 different pharmaceutical antidepressants and antipsychotics I can say it is very true and the side effects are disastrous each and every time.

When your brain function is diminished on pharmaceutical antipsychotics or antidepressants it is not possible for you to make a truly educated decision and the doctor prescribing your medication and "helping you try" a variety and/or cocktail of drugs as instructed by pharmaceutical companies, conversing with you about your moods and mental state is receiving inaccurate information from a malfunctioning brain that is literally having neurotransmitter function disrupted, disabled, blocked, agitated, and/or terminated.

I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. But while there are exceptions the majority of people on antidepressants don't have side effects or have side effects that are clinically helpful. The horror stories are real but they're the exception. If 30 million people take antidepressants and even if only 1 percent have bad effects that's still something like 30,000 people. Which is quite a lot.
I'm just trying to say that this is not an all or nothing issue. Antidepressants may be overprescribed, prescribed for people who are mildly depressed or who may be willing to try non med treatments. And some people have really bad reactions to them but there are many people and probably the majority taking them who find them helpful and who experience their brain functioning better than without them.

 

[SamuraiSam]

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/856106

http://www.medicaldaily.com/single-...-can-change-brains-wiring-just-3-hours-303932

A few weeks on this medication, Lexapro, turned me into a zombie unable to function in any way, and began years of misdiagnosis and prescription pills that nearly killed me. SSRI's and SSNI's are powerful mind altering drugs and I am thankful to be alive after years of their barrage.

The long term effects of these drugs on the brain is not yet known - though some of the physical effects like liver damage (for which I am so far lucky to have no signs of) and stomach issues (which I am unfortunately affected with a weakened stomach lining and have visited the emergency room a half dozen times for serious pain and occasional stomach bleeding in the seven years I've been free of designer pill medication.) I am sure the fall out, once these medications have been used for a few decades is going to be very severe. I am permanently changed forever from those medications and am thankful cannabis saved my life but I will never get back the mind nor body I had before the meds.

I feel that this is an all or nothing issue. The root cause is the vastly profitable pharmaceutical industry which has a highly paid hugely staffed sales team informing doctors which medicines to prescribe so that they can make the most money. There is no concern for the patient. In fact the antidepressants which cause mania in a significant percentage of patients then lead to a diagnosis of bipolar disorder because according to the DSM one depressive episode, (which, remember, had required the administration of a SSRI or SSNI antidepressant, leading to one manic episode, is enough to diagnose the patient as bipolar type I or II, requiring the administration of an antipsychotic, todays first line of expense is the most expensive 'third generation anti-psychotic' which are partial neurotransmitter blockers and partial agonists, medications that are designed to impair brain function and cause a loss of clarity, critical thinking skills, physical fatigue, mental tiredness, and more.

The entire system is set up to keep people medicated on drugs that cost a lot of money and make companies a lot of money. Not to heal people by nursing them back to health, but by prescribing them the newest cutting edge, newly patented drugs as the older meds go off patent.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5844482/why-are-some-antidepressants-more-expensive-than-others

 

[chris 71]

glad to help... without having to read it elsewhere please check it- the beta caryophyllene in black pepper stalls the metabolic break down of thc while thc actively modulates cb receptor signalling... simple as that... cbd too does the same thing, stalls/prolongs thc activity... this allows thc to trigger/toggle signalling more efficiently/ longer and directs metabolism more efficiently... why it works, the volatile nature of caryophyllene directs how it interacts with intracellular signals (receptors)... the quicker the compound evaporates the quicker it is recognized for signalling... this allows volatility to guide receptor signalling... cbd/ thc are heavier more stable compounds that take more effort to signal with @ the receptor
a quick run down...
beta caryophyllene is an inverse agonist @ the cb1 receptor...
thc is an agonist compound @ cb1 receptor
cbd is an antagonist compound @ cb2 receptor

as an inverse agonist the black pepper works like cbd does @ receptors just through channels not directly related to cb receptor signalling..
I felt the same way upon researching what it is that is happening with all this receptor signalling talk and have been glad I started to plow through the research 8 years ago

im noticing that the strains from Canadian licenced producer tweed that are grown in a green house setting using the sun more then artificial lighting seem to always have a lot more caryophyllene

 

[C No Ego]

im noticing that the strains from Canadian licenced producer tweed that are grown in a green house setting using the sun more then artificial lighting seem to always have a lot more caryophyllene

here is a great study on beta caryophyllene and the endocannabinoid system... peace



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2449371/

 

[chris 71]

here is a great study on beta caryophyllene and the endocannabinoid system... peace



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2449371/

That is a ton of great info there . to me i love how it shows that cannabis consitituents are indeed food and good food at that .

how niave are the cannabis is bad drug warriors that unknowing are activating the same receptors not only by there own endocanabiniod systems but also the food they eat on a daily bases

 

[C No Ego]

That is a ton of great info there . to me i love how it shows that cannabis consitituents are indeed food and good food at that .

how niave are the cannabis is bad drug warriors that unknowing are activating the same receptors not only by there own endocanabiniod systems but also the food they eat on a daily bases

illegalization of the plant sent the genetics underground for a while and increased thc varietals... cbd is being re-bred back into genetics.... imo, it is out of balance thc genetics that show the worst results ( think marinol -synthetic thc) like paranoia and increased fight or flight awareness.. oxidizing thc via heat causes the increase in its activity... out of balance cbd can do the same thing... there is a happy medium there somewhere for each person

 

[EmDeemo]

im interested if anybody here is on any of these anti depressants slash anti anxiety meds and using cannabis at the same time . and what your experience is .

i recently have been put on trazodone an SARI to give it a try for anxiety i have been suffering from . in my cause i swear up and down that my problem is from a auto immune disease , hyperthyroid disease , i have called graves disease .

but the docs tell me its not that . so i have decided to give it a try . so far i have been taking it for 4 days and i am having some improvements in some areas so it seems , so far anyways .

i havnt had any cannabis at all since a day or two before starting the meds .

i asked the pharmacists if there was anything to worry about if i was to vape or smoke my mmj while taking my trazodone . he said no but im still a little leary and havnt tried yet .

i did do some googling to see what i could find out about cannabis effecting serotonin levels but could only find here say type info .

so anyway does anybody here use cannabis and take any of these meds and have any info or experience they could share . i guess the worst thing to worry about would be if it could cause a serotonin syndrome effect .

but not sure if this is really a issue . and the pharmacist would surely have said if there was no ?

Graves Disease sufferer here. Anxiety up the wazoo for years. Depression etc. Graves Disease went unchecked for 10 years and nearly killed me.

I've had years on cannabis, years off it, over that decade. I'm autistic, and OCD too, I research the living shit out of things.

Graves is now in remission thank fuck. No surgery, thank fuck (it terrifies me). No radiation treatment thank fuck. But I spent YEARS as an emotional wreck, I can tell you that much.

The DSM and these legally F.alsifying D.ocuments A.lways approved poisons are NOT good at all. In fact you're killing yourself! Think patients for profit not for curing. It's right in your face!

There has NEVER been and there still is NO WAY to measure exactly what the chemicals in the brain do, how they work with others in the body exactly and brain and how much is released from the brain and other glands and such. Think dosages here people!

Yay to guessing and telling the duped masses it's good for you. Just go look up the fucking deadly ingredients people!

Do you really care for your health or is it better to hit the lazy easy button. Read and comprehend what I've stated here folks. Don't change the topic I've brought up. It's specific.

You can't argue with 100% factual truths. If you do you've been brainwashed into someone's reality other than yours. Yeah it stings but it's up to you to swallow the red pill and awaken.

It's called a real diet, exercise and healthy thoughts and people in your life. It's simple!

There are only a few yes a FEW true mental illnesses. The others are made for the suckers and for lining the pockets of the corporations and their backers. Nuff said.... drops the damn mic!

- formerly a duped poison taker now I'm educated, awake and even better truly ALIVE!

Completely overly simplistic and full of blame for the people who are suffering who dont have your same world view. I see what you're saying, the broad strokes make much sense, but broad strokes dont help individuals with very specific needs and a complex variety of social issues.

Those answers you provide are very simple to say, but people trapped in a spiral of wrong decisions they dont know they're making, or environmental/situational factors like pollution, years of abuse possibly from childhood, and a mind that isnt interpretting the world in a way that can communicate any of their actual needs arent going to be able to enact those simple solutions. Or hormones going bug nuts mental insane due to Graves Disease.

I spent 20 years plus working on those aspects, doing everything I could to avoid medication, everything I could read or try that was spiritual, holistic, environmental, excercise, changing my thought patterns.

None of it worked for longer than three months at a time. I made progress but not in terms of breaking down continually and having my life and mind unravel. Until three years ago, at my suicidal wits end, I got FINALLY diagnosed as autistic, OCD, and started taking medication.

I'm now healthier than I've ever been. I'm not a brainwashed moron, one of the unwashed shit munchers, or an uneducated poison taker. I havent had a suicidal thought in over a year, I havent made plans to lay my head on the train tracks in over three years.

Without medical intervention I'd be dead.

Thats not to say I dont think there arent a barrel full of issues surrounding some of the points you bring up, but I dont see calling people idiots and non thinkers is helping any one.

 

[chris 71]

emmdeemo thanks so much for chiming in , its nice to finally meet another cannabis user that has graves .

how did you get into remission ? did you take the antithyroid meds too ? which one ? im taking tapozole for like 15 or 16 months now . how long did it take you before remmision ? please tell me more .
any special diet or other stuff i really hope that i can reach remission too graves disease really sucks and can really make you crazy . thanks again for posting

 

[EmDeemo]

emmdeemo thanks so much for chiming in , its nice to finally meet another cannabis user that has graves .

how did you get into remission ? did you take the antithyroid meds too ? which one ? im taking tapozole for like 15 or 16 months now . how long did it take you before remmision ? please tell me more .
any special diet or other stuff i really hope that i can reach remission too graves disease really sucks and can really make you crazy . thanks again for posting

I went all out war on Graves Disease. Stupid fucking named disease. Fucking thing kept me awake for days on end, made life a fucking misery. Waking up crying every morning. Crying at the drop of a hat about anything! So much anger and rage that I couldnt stop from erupting every five minutes while completely alone. Friendships wrecked, family distanced. Never sleeping, constant sweating, heart going INSANE, multiple ambulances/hospital visits, skinny as fuck, the list was enormous. And the doctors kept telling me there was nothing wrong. They thought I was wasting their time, no medication or help was offered. Eventually I started demanding things and refusing to leave the doctors office. Cue bloodtests, cue results. God, that made me more angry, but I'm now much healthier. I dont itch all the time from my body heat being through the roof.

I had been vegan on and off for years, and there was talk that soya may contribute to the thyroid going crazy, so I cut soya. I read that cruciferous vegetables could be a problem so I cut back on those. In general tho, I tried to up my game in eating correctly. Getting a chart of vitamin groups/carbs etc, and healthy foods, and trying to arrange my diet better was a positive step, and something I used to do anyway.

I was on Carbimozole for a good two years or so before any change started happening. In the meantime, the doctors werent really that helpful apart from saying if the meds didnt work, surgery was the next step. The area is such a new field that they just dont know what else to offer, and the success rate is pretty damned high. Still scared me though. They knew nothing about the dietary things I found so I dont know how legit that info was, but still, I ate a lot of soya and lot of anything isnt the best idea. I eat a load of home made curries chock full of spinach and cauliflower etc, both cruciferous vegetables. So a change in diet wasnt exactly a bad thing anyway. Variety is where its at. For the record, on paper, my diet was impeccable up till then!

I also had one destructive relationship, the stress of which may have caused the early onset of Graves in the first place (the Graves was always lurking, inherited from my Mother), so I moved away from that. I'd already been in therapy for years, CBT years before, meditation daily on myself, lots of constant soul searching, and then, eventually, psychodrama psychotherapy, which was great. CBT was great, meditation is great, but when you cant sleep, your mind is going INSANE from hormones, meditation was completely out the quetsion, I just could not do what I used to be able to with meditation.

The most annoying thing about Graves Disease is the sheer range of effects and symptoms it can produce, the early days of research and the route to recovery being so wide open, and vague.

Much like autism, one persons experience of Graves Disease is just that :/

For me, I tried everything @ichibaneye suggests, all of it. Working on thought processes, diet and exercise. On top of that, for me, it was removing any one out of my life who wasnt helping and was causing ANY stress (not really a viable long term solution), the medication, carbimazole and taking ABV in all my food, finally giving up alcohol for good. The final part of the puzzle was refusing to let stress into my life (again, not a viable option really), autism and OCD diagnosis, and Paroxetine 40mg daily. Life has NEVER been so stable. Its beautiful.

For my mother, it was no changes, operations on her eyes (they'd begun to bulge from the Graves and she couldnt see any longer because of it), and just taking the same meds, carbimazole, for around a year. Go figure.