Smoking versus Vaping (ad nauseum)

[lwien]

Ok, I KNOW that this subject has been discussed a BAZILLION times in various forums and believe me, I've checked just about all the threads on this subject, but there's STILL something that is very confusing.

It has been said many times that the reason that vaping gives you more of a head high than a body high is because in vaping, we are inhaling less toxins but I'm having a hard time believing that that is the whole story.

My tolerance is pretty low. I only buy top shelf buds at my local medical dispensary and typically an 8th will last me over a month. I smoke every night starting around 7:00 and put the pipe down at around 11.
During that 4 hour time span, I find that about 3 hits is all that I have ever required to maintain a very nice high.

Enter the VaporGenie about 2 weeks ago. The amount that I can load in a VaporGenie is the same amount that I can put in my regular pipe bowl, but I never get as high vaping as I do from smoking that bowl in a regular pipe.

I mean with the small amounts that I am using, how can toxins have THAT much of an affect regarding the "high". Many years ago, I used to smoke 3 packs of cigs a day............now THAT'S a lot of toxins, but they NEVER gave me a body, physical high that only ONE hit out of my smoking bowl will give me.

The difference in the high in smoking the same herb in my bowl versus the Genie is dramatic. I even tested out a bit further last night. I took a 3 huge vapor hit from the Genie, held it for a long time and got a nice buzz. Took one hit from my smoking bowl, and got MORE ripped than I did from my Genie.

How can toxins from one hit have THAT much of an impact over a one hour period?

PS.......I hit the Genie until the duff is a medium to dark brown. No black or green.

So whatdya think? Is it just the toxins that are playing a role here or is there something else goin on?

 

[SpiralArchitect]

Most likely that groggy, couchlock, incapacitating high is what you're use to (smoking). If your not getting as high, I really don't know what to say. I have a huge tolerance and I get lit after vaporizing even small amounts of bud.

How long do you hold your hits in?

 

[lwien]

Hold my hits for between 8 to 10 seconds.

When I say "not getting as high" I mean that when I finish a complete bowl from the Genie, I'm high, but still clear headed enough to carry on a conversation, do chores around the house, etc etc etc.

When I take just one hit from my pipe, I'm blazing..........not really wanting to do anything but enjoy the high. It's more than just couch-lock. With smoking......I get mad munchies and (this may be giving you more info than you want to know, but I get horny as hell.). With vaping, no munchies and no horniness. It's a totally different high..........which I have a hard time believing is just do to toxins.

I to, get lit from taking a few hits from the Genie, but it's no where near the same as taking a few hits from the bowl.

With smoking herb, my senses are really enhanced.......food tastes better, sex is better, etc etc etc. Not so with the vape high. With the vape high, it's strictly cerebral without the enhanced senses that one gets with a body high, at least for me.

I was seriously thinking of ordering a PD tomorrow, but now I'm having second thoughts.

Maybe I'll just end up doing both. Vaping when I got things to do, and smoking when I really want to get blazed.

Again, I'm just wondering what's going on here, and have a hard time believing that the main differences here are the extra toxins one gets from smoking.

 

[luchiano]

First make sure that you are grinding the herb to have enough surface area for the heat to vaporize enough of the cannabinoids. Smoking the same herb will give more result than when vaporized if it isn't grinded enough due to the high heat being more effective but obviously more problems occur because of this.

What's also going on is that when you smoke you oxidize more thc into cbn due to the high heat and cbn effects your immune system by activating anti-inflammatory immune cells which is why cbd and cbn are known for relieving pain and giving good sleep.

If you want to get the benefits of vaporizing(major head high, health) and the effects of smoking(enhanced sensations, feel more high for longer) eat a lot of different fruit everyday for up to 2 weeks and continue everyday after that.

What this does is enhance your immune system by lowering inflammation and also lowering inflammatory immune cells but it also raises anti-inflammtory cells which would give the effects you want I gave earlier.

Here's info for you:

Reduced Levels of Antiinflammatory Cytokines in Patients With Chronic Widespread Pain
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/542953

immunity and antioxidant capacity in humans is enhanced by consumption of a dried, encapsulated fruit and vegetable juice concentrate
http://www.phytochemicals.info/research/antioxidants-fruits-vegetables.php

The relationship between cytokines and pain/depression
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m217520261823v07/

(IL2) are inflammatory immune cells:

http://www.nida.nih.gov/dirreports/dirrep500/DirectorReport1.html
Regulation of Immune Responses by the Cannabinoid Receptor

The regulation of immune responses by a cytokine (IL2) has been modulated through the administration of cannabinoids. This was shown to occur through the regulation of transcription processes in the same immune-type cell. A strong interaction between the cannabinoid and cytokine systems was displayed and it was also revealed that the immune system can use the cannabinoid system to regulate host susceptibility. NIDA-supported investigators previously reported that immunosuppressive cannabinoids inhibited interleukin (IL)-2 steady-state mRNA expression and secretion by phorbol-12-myristate-13-acetate plus ionomycin-activated mouse splenocytes and EL4 murine T-cells. In this study these researchers show that inhibition of IL-2 production by cannabinol, a modest central nervous system-active cannabinoid, is mediated through the inhibition of IL-2 gene transcription. Moreover, electrophoretic mobility shift assays demonstrated that cannabinol markedly inhibited the DNA binding activity of nuclear factor of activated T-cells (NF-AT) and activator protein-1 (AP-1) in a time- and concentration-dependent manner in activated EL4 cells. The inhibitory effects produced by cannabinol on AP-1 DNA binding were quite transient, showing partial recovery by 240 min after cell activation and no effect on the activity of a reporter gene under the control of AP-1. Conversely, cannabinol-mediated inhibition of NF-AT was robust and sustained as demonstrated by an NF-AT-regulated reporter gene. Collectively, these results suggest that decreased IL-2 production by cannabinol in EL4 cells is due to the inhibition of transcriptional activation of the IL-2 gene and is mediated, at least in part, through a transient inhibition of AP-1 and a sustained inhibition of NF-AT. Yea, S.S., Yang, K.H., and Kaminski, N.E. Role of Nuclear Factor of Activated T-Cells and activator Protein-1 in the Inhibition of Interleukin-2 Gene Transcription by Cannabinol in EL4 T-cells. J. Pharm. Exper. Ther., 292, pp. 597-605, 2000.

 

[lwien]

The regulation of immune responses by a cytokine (IL2) has been modulated through the administration of cannabinoids. This was shown to occur through the regulation of transcription processes in the same immune-type cell. A strong interaction between the cannabinoid and cytokine systems was displayed and it was also revealed that the immune system can use the cannabinoid system to regulate host susceptibility. NIDA-supported investigators previously reported that immunosuppressive cannabinoids inhibited interleukin (IL)-2 steady-state mRNA expression and secretion by phorbol-12-myristate-13-acetate plus ionomycin-activated mouse splenocytes and EL4 murine T-cells. In this study these researchers show that inhibition of IL-2 production by cannabinol, a modest central nervous system-active cannabinoid, is mediated through the inhibition of IL-2 gene transcription. Moreover, electrophoretic mobility shift assays demonstrated that cannabinol markedly inhibited the DNA binding activity of nuclear factor of activated T-cells (NF-AT) and activator protein-1 (AP-1) in a time- and concentration-dependent manner in activated EL4 cells. The inhibitory effects produced by cannabinol on AP-1 DNA binding were quite transient, showing partial recovery by 240 min after cell activation and no effect on the activity of a reporter gene under the control of AP-1. Conversely, cannabinol-mediated inhibition of NF-AT was robust and sustained as demonstrated by an NF-AT-regulated reporter gene. Collectively, these results suggest that decreased IL-2 production by cannabinol in EL4 cells is due to the inhibition of transcriptional activation of the IL-2 gene and is mediated, at least in part, through a transient inhibition of AP-1 and a sustained inhibition of NF-AT. Yea, S.S., Yang, K.H., and Kaminski, N.E. Role of Nuclear Factor of Activated T-Cells and activator Protein-1 in the Inhibition of Interleukin-2 Gene Transcription by Cannabinol in EL4 T-cells. J. Pharm. Exper. Ther., 292, pp. 597-605, 2000.

 

[stickstones]

lwien, this may have more to do with you than the weed. I love the vape high. The only difference for me is that it sneaks up on me rather than hitting me right away like a good bong hit. That being said, a really heavy whip hit from my E will get me rocked almost immediately.

The one time I smoked since I started vaping I ended up using way more weed and the high faded quicker.

I definitely can be productive and enjoy my chores more after vaping. When my smoker friends come over and hit my E they get super rocked...like first time users.

 

[lwien]

lwien, this may have more to do with you than the weed. I love the vape high. The only difference for me is that it sneaks up on me rather than hitting me right away like a good bong hit. That being said, a really heavy whip hit from my E will get me rocked almost immediately.

The one time I smoked since I started vaping I ended up using way more weed and the high faded quicker.

I definitely can be productive and enjoy my chores more after vaping. When my smoker friends come over and hit my E they get super rocked...like first time users.

I like the vape high too, stickstones.............it just feels like rather than getting the "whole" high, I'm only getting part of it, if that makes any sense.

It may be me, but in reading a bunch of other threads on other forums, there are others that have the same experience as I. But you're right in that it may have something to do with an individuals body chemistry. Don't know, but all this talk about it having to do with toxins I don't quite understand. I mean why would additional toxins give me more of the munchies?

Anyway, I was just curious as to the reasons why vaping and smoking gives me such a different high. I know that they do for me, and what I may just do is do them both. Vape when I got things to do, and smoke when I don't have things to do. Kinda too bad though, because strictly from a health standpoint, I really wish I that the vape high would give me all the goodies that the smoking high gives me.

Oil well..............

 

[stickstones]

I hear you, man. I don't know enough to address the toxins issue, but what you say makes sense to me, so maybe you're onto something? I dunno. :/

 

[lwien]

I hear you, man. I don't know enough to address the toxins issue, but what you say makes sense to me, so maybe you're onto something? I dunno. :/

Read the latest posts in that Sativa versus Indica thread I started, especially the posts by bongoman. He also states that when he vapes, he can't discern the difference between the Sativa's and the Indica's but when he smokes it, he can. That is also my experience, and ties into what is being discussed here in this thread. We seem to be missing something when we vape........at least that is true for some.

 

[Frickr]

i hear what yoru saying about the high "missing" something, but i actually perfer that over smoking. i like being more active when im high so vaping is more enjoyable for me.

 

[lwien]

i hear what yoru saying about the high "missing" something, but i actually perfer that over smoking. i like being more active when im high so vaping is more enjoyable for me.

Yeah, Frickr, so do I.................at times. At other times, however, I like kinda slippin' into a coma..... Just kinda wish I could do it all with vaping.

 

[luchiano]

I forgot to mention that drinking drinking tart cherry juice will also help with the effects you want.

In the mean time what you can do to get the effects you want can be to take the vaped herb and put them into capsules with some clarified butter(ghee) or coconut oil. If you can't get these oils for whatever reason you can use extra virgin olive oil but the former oils are much better. Take the capsules daily but don't over do it and take more than two 500 mgs capsules daily because I might be too lethargic for you.

What you are doing is letting your body build up the anti-inflammatory immune cells from the cbn which will give you a POWERFUL high when you vaporize the next day. If you take the pills, eat different fruit before and after vaporizing and taking tart cherry juice and do all this daily, your high will be better than smoking and vaporizing the way you and most people are doing right now.

Tart cherry juice:
http://www.cherrypharm.com/Info-Juice/wholetartcherryjuice

 

[Loarun]

I have not smoked since i started using my genie but from memory smoking always gave me a much "stronger high".

By stronger i mean more intense in curtain aspects like; paranoia,muchies,sleep,confusion,giggles all the stereotypical signs of being high.

Instead i get light headed, motivated, relaxed, aware and bad as fuck at video games

 

[luchiano]

BTW, tart cherries also contain a significant amount of melatonin which contributes to the high we get from cannabis and also the health benefits because thc releases melatonin in high amounts. Peace.

 

[lwien]

I have not smoked since i started using my genie but from memory smoking always gave me a much "stronger high".

By stronger i mean more intense in curtain aspects like; paranoia,muchies,sleep,confusion,giggles all the stereotypical signs of being high.

Instead i get light headed, motivated, relaxed, aware and bad as fuck at video games

Perfect !!! Totally agree..........except the paranoia part. I haven't felt that for decades...........

 

[vtac]

The majority of people I've spoken with have said the effects they get from vaporizing cannabis are a bit different than from smoking it. Cleaner and more energetic are mentioned a lot. A few don't notice a difference. Most seem to prefer vaporizing. I've heard some people say all strains result in the same effects when vaporizing... not the case for me at all. It really does affect everyone differently.

I don't think anyone can really tell you exactly why, or how much it has to do with the lack of toxins. Shame, but the research isn't happening. :/

The difference in the high in smoking the same herb in my bowl versus the Genie is dramatic. I even tested out a bit further last night. I took a 3 huge vapor hit from the Genie, held it for a long time and got a nice buzz. Took one hit from my smoking bowl, and got MORE ripped than I did from my Genie.

Sure if you vape a bowl and then smoke a bowl right after, the buzz is going to increase as you go.

The VG can hit pretty hard with practice... it was my first vape too. I did find that I was able to produce stronger results with a home unit though.

If you want to go to sleep, I've got some ABV cannabutter that'll do the trick for ya.

 

[lwien]

The difference in the high in smoking the same herb in my bowl versus the Genie is dramatic. I even tested out a bit further last night. I took a 3 huge vapor hit from the Genie, held it for a long time and got a nice buzz. Took one hit from my smoking bowl, and got MORE ripped than I did from my Genie.

Sure if you vape a bowl and then smoke a bowl right after, the buzz is going to increase as you go.

The VG can hit pretty hard with practice... it was my first vape too. I did find that I was able to produce stronger results with a home unit though.

If you want to go to sleep, I've got some ABV cannabutter that'll do the trick for ya.

Actually, I worded that sentence wrong. I compared the hits from the Genie versus smoking on two different days, not successive hits from both units on the same day. Sorry for the confusion...:/

So being that you got stronger results from a home unit, do you think I would get stronger results from a PD over a Genie?

And regarding the edibles, I was just thinking about that. If I save my duff and use it for firecrackers (or cannabutter), I could have the best of both worlds, no? Have a firecracker or two and then hit the vap while waiting for the crackers to hit.

 

[stickstones]

So being that you got stronger results from a home unit, do you think I would get stronger results from a PD over a Genie?

No. My Genie gets me baked harder and quicker than the PD because it holds more herb. I love my PD because it is efficient, simple and I can really dial in where I want to be because I am getting it in such small doses.

But the bigger home units that hold more herb in their bowls get me more ripped than the PD, simply because they push me over the edge because I am getting bigger hits. I can get just as ripped with the PD, but it takes longer and more hitting.

If you are looking for a vaporizer that can replace the bong feeling of getting big hits that get you stupid, then I would suggest an Extreme from experience, or an VHW or SSV from what I have heard about them.

 

[illadelph]

the difference for me when combusting and vaping is that after hitting the extreme a few good times, i feel euphoric almost comparable to a runner's high or something of that nature. this differs from smoking a blunt which just gets me stupid and i literally feel like im on drugs(lol). i also love the fact that no one notices that im high because i neither look it nor smell like blunt shit.

 

[lwien]

Ya know, after just getting my first vape, a VG, and going back and forth every other day between vaping and smoking, I came to a final decision last night while smoking a bowl and semi-nodding out in front of the TV (the kind where your head starts to fall back and it wakes you up with a "wtf".........

Final decision............VAPING !!! It's just so different. I never felt totally awake and clear headed and energized while being high before. MUCH better than being drugged out...........just something I kinda had to get my head around. The ONLY time that I think that I would want to smoke is either for pain relief or to counter a bad case of insomnia.

PD is on the way..............Hell, I may even be able to lose a few pounds from not getting the munchies so bad, and that's a good thing

 

[Frickr]

hmm, i must be strange, i get the munchies more vaping then i do smoking. ive noticed though that if you strictly vape for a while, when you do smoke it sets you on your butt. and vice versa.

 

[Beezleb]

I eat just as much as ever.

 

[stickstones]

I still get the munchies.

 

[chloe]

I'm eating as we speak..on my 2nd whopper...sooo good