Sleep problems since cutting down

[bluenavey00]

Hello, not 100% sure what area this should go in so please move if needed.

Not sure if there are any sleep experts on here, but here goes, there seems to be experts on everything on FC

I combusted daily for 4 nearly 5 years as a young adult. My use was fairly moderated, around .5 weekdays and maybe a gram or so at the weekends.

Since I got my first vape I decided to try moderate more, as it was something I felt I wanted to do. For the past 7 weeks I have just been vaping Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays. And on those days, due to my tolerance dropping considerably, some of those days I just use .1, sometimes more of course

During previous T-breaks in my life I have discovered (then googled) about the vivid dreams caused when a regular herb user stops. Over the past weeks the amount of dreams, and level of detail has got a bit ridiculous. I would have thought over time it would subside but so far it hasn't and in fact last night was the worst.

From research I have found this is down to REM rebound, when your brain struggles to get from REM sleep (when you dream) to deep sleep (when your body and mind relax). I have been sleeping more hours than I used to when I was a daily user. Before often below 7, now often closer to 8 maybe even a tad more. But due to me not getting masses of deep sleep I do not feel refreshed when I wake up.

I do not have problems getting to sleep, in fact I manage to get to sleep earlier than when iI was using more regularly.

Probably a long shot but I didn't know if anyone on here has any knowledge in this area, knows someone who does, or has some research or tips from online or any combo of the above.

Thanks, and happy vaping...

 

[McSheamus]

I have the same problem, 5 years of combustion, been vaping only for 2 months, still have lucid dreams. Not every night anymore though. It sucks coz you indeed don't feel refreshed after sleeping so looooong..

If I vape sativa before going to bed I most likely will have dreams, with indica\hybrid it depends. If i vape right before i go to sleep i have dreams most of the times. If i vape around 30mins before i go to sleep i don't have dreams and wake up refreshed.

I do have to say when I smoked, I never had dreams. Now it seems it doesn't go away either. No idea how or why so I'm glad you made this thread!

 

[Pain]

I found that it is better to cut down slowly. My off days still include an 8:30pm half bowl vape session so at 11:30pm I am more than ready for sleep. Even my heavy usage days I stop vaping by around 9:30pm so I can get proper sleep.

This is exactly opposite of what I used to do which was get blasted right before bed. I could not even really tell if I was sleeping or just really high. At first it seemed to work, but long term it was definitely hurting the quality of my sleep.

 

[slick]

F b c Jr mycensuses j TN mj TCTREATTACHED faves Cabeza Jens Menend

Edit:My kid made a post. Delete please. Or not and FC will have its first 3 year old member.

 

[lwien]

F b c Jr mycensuses j TN mj TCTREATTACHED faves Cabeza Jens Menend

I'll have what he's ^^^^ having !!!

 

[bluenavey00]

I have the same problem, 5 years of combustion, been vaping only for 2 months, still have lucid dreams. Not every night anymore though. It sucks coz you indeed don't feel refreshed after sleeping so looooong..

If I vape sativa before going to bed I most likely will have dreams, with indica\hybrid it depends. If i vape right before i go to sleep i have dreams most of the times. If i vape around 30mins before i go to sleep i don't have dreams and wake up refreshed.

I do have to say when I smoked, I never had dreams. Now it seems it doesn't go away either. No idea how or why so I'm glad you made this thread!

Really interesting that you experience similar things, sure there must also be others.

I also find that normally when I'm going to bed high I don't dream. At the weekends when I'm Vaping no dreams. I don't want to have to start using again weekdays just to get a better quality of sleep, I'm hoping that somewhere down the line my brain will adjust lol.

 

[McSheamus]

Really interesting that you experience similar things, sure there must also be others.

I also find that normally when I'm going to bed high I don't dream. At the weekends when I'm Vaping no dreams. I don't want to have to start using again weekdays just to get a better quality of sleep, I'm hoping that somewhere down the line my brain will adjust lol.

I would say hang in there. But with vaping it doesn't seem to leave. Nor does it seem to have a pattern with me. I'm glad I don't have nightmares though gettin up tired is the real issue.

Hope someone somewhere has a solution for us!

 

[biohacker]

Vaping makes me dependent on it for sleep. Only way for me around it is to stop, or cut it way the fuck back. I've been struggling with this for years. No vape = no sleep for me....I get serious insomnia as a withdrawal effect as well as night sweats that can last up to a couple of months.

 

[McSheamus]

Vaping makes me dependent on it for sleep. Only way for me around it is to stop, or cut it way the fuck back. I've been struggling with this for years. No vape = no sleep for me....I get serious insomnia as a withdrawal effect as well as night sweats that can last up to a couple of months.

Glad it's not so serious with me!

It can be a bitch, right.

 

[biohacker]

I think the seriousness (at least for me) comes with dosage and time. I've been vaporizing for nearly a decade now, mostly full steam with period nightmarish breaks here and there, but never longer than a month or two. I've changed that recently, but I find that cold turkey isn't the best for me, unless I want to be awake for 2 weeks and drop 15 lbs.

 

[hafalump]

heavy user, my cold turkey last 5 days, peaks on third. no appetite, little sleep,
then fine, try melatonin, 5http (a seratonin precurser) or L tryptophan. will help with sleep
and easy to drop after a week, your millage may very

 

[fernand]

Not surprising, big changes are taking place in the nervous system. The obvious advice is to make changes as gradually as possible. It's silly to think Cannabis would be the only psychoactive without any rebound. Every action has an equal reaction, as they say. It's just that the effect is so complex that the rebound is too.

Melatonin, L-Tryptophan and 5HTP are worth trying. Some random megavitamins might hit a magic button. Also antihistamines like benadryl 25-50 MG cause drowsiness and sleep without habituation or heavy side effects in the short run.

I think this is largely uncharted, or rather undocumented, territory, so keep notes and please share your observations.+1

 

[KeroZen]

I'd like to contribute and say that I also experience very intense dreams since I stopped combustion and reduced my intake, but contrary to the other posters, I absolutely love it!

My dreams have an incredible amount of details and they appear crystal clear. I remember them suprisingly well when I wake up and my girlfriend loves when I tell her what happened, as it's usually completely crazy and/or funny. We laugh a lot about that!

You should really see it the other way round: there is some debate as what the exact role of dreams is, but most probably they help us prepare the next day and integrate the information we gathered in the previous one. You should really see the absence of dreams as an anomaly and not the inverse. Sleeping like a stone and only having the impression to wake up from a thick haze is not the norm (although some people naturally do dream less than others, there is a lot of variation)

I also don't feel tired when I wake up, in fact I feel I'm getting way better sleep than when I combusted. I wake up faster and don't feel like I got glue in my eyes and head, sticking me to my cushion... On the other hand I got the weird impression that epic things happened during the night (I told you my dreams are incredible hehe) but you get used to it really.

 

[McSheamus]

I'd like to contribute and say that I also experience very intense dreams since I stopped combustion and reduced my intake, but contrary to the other posters, I absolutely love it!

My dreams have an incredible amount of details and they appear crystal clear. I remember them suprisingly well when I wake up and my girlfriend loves when I tell her what happened, as it's usually completely crazy and/or funny. We laugh a lot about that!

You should really see it the other way round: there is some debate as what the exact role of dreams is, but most probably they help us prepare the next day and integrate the information we gathered in the previous one. You should really see the absence of dreams as an anomaly and not the inverse. Sleeping like a stone and only having the impression to wake up from a thick haze is not the norm (although some people naturally do dream less than others, there is a lot of variation)

I also don't feel tired when I wake up, in fact I feel I'm getting way better sleep than when I combusted. I wake up faster and don't feel like I got glue in my eyes and head, sticking me to my cushion... On the other hand I got the weird impression that epic things happened during the night (I told you my dreams are incredible hehe) but you get used to it really.

I don't mind of the dreams either. I remember them also crystal clear.

The problem is getting up tired.

But now i'm vaping more so I barely dream now
Although yesterday I did not vape right before going to sleep. Woke up 4 times during the night. Yet I felt completely fresh when I woke up.

 

[KeroZen]

Maybe a key to the problem is that you have an irregular consumption with days off and days on? So you somehow trigger withdrawal symptoms? I know that I also get a very light and agitated sleep when I'm deprivated... But most of the time I got a very regular chronic consumption rate.

We all are built differently though, it's hard to generalize.

 

[McSheamus]

I vape all day everyday. Depends on if I vape straight before going to bed or not. Sometimes i'm to lazy and most of the times I end up dreaming. Sometimes not. Sometimes I dream when I have vaped straight before bed.

No pattern with me with vaping. But it's been a while now. I think my transformation from combustion to vaporization is complete.

 

[McSheamus]

@bluenavey00

Ok my man. I maybe have found a solution for ME.

Lately I had some stomach acid creeping up alot. (A problem for whole my life). Lately I also woke up 3 times a night, after the 3th time waking up I think I wasn't high enough anymore, so then the vivid dreaming occurred.

Now I have put some books under my matress to lift it up + i'm sleeping on 2 pillows on eachother.

Just tried it this night. Haven't woke up, slept like a baby for 9hrs(!) and while I know i have dreamt, yet I don't remeber them + I have woken up all refreshed.

Hopefully this succes continues... Maybe this is worth something to you. So voila.

 

[bluenavey00]

@bluenavey00

Ok my man. I maybe have found a solution for ME.

Lately I had some stomach acid creeping up alot. (A problem for whole my life). Lately I also woke up 3 times a night, after the 3th time waking up I think I wasn't high enough anymore, so then the vivid dreaming occurred.

Now I have put some books under my matress to lift it up + i'm sleeping on 2 pillows on eachother.

Just tried it this night. Haven't woke up, slept like a baby for 9hrs(!) and while I know i have dreamt, yet I don't remeber them + I have woken up all refreshed.

Hopefully this succes continues... Maybe this is worth something to you. So voila.

Thanks for the idea

Are you suggesting that raising the head end of your body can lesson the dreams?

I do tend to sleep with one very thin pillow as that's what I find most comfortable but maybe it would be worth a go.

 

[McSheamus]

Thanks for the idea

Are you suggesting that raising the head end of your body can lesson the dreams?

I do tend to sleep with one very thin pillow as that's what I find most comfortable but maybe it would be worth a go.

Maybe, maybe not. Easy method if it does so it's worth a shot I think although something like this would be strange

 

[bluenavey00]

Maybe, maybe not. Easy method if it does so it's worth a shot I think although something like this would be strange

I shall try to test it for a few nights and report back

 

[sz1a]

My most satisfying times is when I vape after a few days off. I *try* to not vape in the middle of the day or in the weekdays but its hard if I vaped on Sunday. Anyhow, day 1 it sucks but day 2 I tend to forget about it, day 3 I feel great and day 4 I am pretty jittery and hyped. Taking a dab hit then really is awesome. However daily daytime use makes me really weird and sluggish. It seems to be different for everyone..

 

[fernand]

@sz1a I wonder if the strain would affect that. Do you have access to a wide variety ?

 

[Solomon]

Ahhh to sleep, perhaps to dream...

Ok, not an expert, but as a sleep apnea sufferer, I probably know more about sleep than the average person. I was diagnosed about 15 years ago, and have ever since been using a CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) - which is kinda like having a small leaf blower in your nose all night...heh. But prior to getting the device I had to do a "sleep study". They hook you up to all kinds of electrodes, put you in a dark room, and monitor your sleeping. It's every bit as strange as it sounds.

So in my case they found I stopped breathing over 300x a night and in the full 8.3 hours that I was asleep, I managed a scant 2.5 minutes of Delta and very little REM sleep. Delta sleep is the really deep restorative sleep which is cycled with REM where you dream. In my case, I stopped breathing and would suddenly gasp - not waking up - but breaking the deep sleep cycle. So after 8 hours, I still felt tired, irritable, and foggy.

They then fitted me with the CPAP device and did the test again. This time I fell into a very deep Delta sleep that lasted over 3 hours (normally this would be 5-15 min cycles) and lots and lots of REM sleep - so my mind went dream crazy. Interestingly, I didn't remember any dreams even though I had nearly 10x the REM cycles. The doctors said that the only dreams people remember are when awakened during a dream cycle, and this usually occurs towards the end of a night's sleep when there is more REM and less Delta sleeping.

Soooo.....if you remember a lot of dreams, especially in the middle of the night, it can actually be an indication of a broken sleep. Not remembering any dreams - which is usually the case - just might mean you are sleeping really well.

 

[McSheamus]

Ahhh to sleep, perhaps to dream...

Ok, not an expert, but as a sleep apnea sufferer, I probably know more about sleep than the average person. I was diagnosed about 15 years ago, and have ever since been using a CPAP (continuous positive airway pressure) - which is kinda like having a small leaf blower in your nose all night...heh. But prior to getting the device I had to do a "sleep study". They hook you up to all kinds of electrodes, put you in a dark room, and monitor your sleeping. It's every bit as strange as it sounds.

So in my case they found I stopped breathing over 300x a night and in the full 8.3 hours that I was asleep, I managed a scant 2.5 minutes of Delta and very little REM sleep. Delta sleep is the really deep restorative sleep which is cycled with REM where you dream. In my case, I stopped breathing and would suddenly gasp - not waking up - but breaking the deep sleep cycle. So after 8 hours, I still felt tired, irritable, and foggy.

They then fitted me with the CPAP device and did the test again. This time I fell into a very deep Delta sleep that lasted over 3 hours (normally this would be 5-15 min cycles) and lots and lots of REM sleep - so my mind went dream crazy. Interestingly, I didn't remember any dreams even though I had nearly 10x the REM cycles. The doctors said that the only dreams people remember are when awakened during a dream cycle, and this usually occurs towards the end of a night's sleep when there is more REM and less Delta sleeping.

Soooo.....if you remember a lot of dreams, especially in the middle of the night, it can actually be an indication of a broken sleep. Not remembering any dreams - which is usually the case - just might mean you are sleeping really well.

Very interesting to hear such facts!
Very nasty condition either!

The dreams i remember are indeed when i wake up in the middle of it. I always knew i was waking up in the dream. It was like 'ah time to wake up'.

 

[KeroZen]

I can remember on average 3 distinct dreams per night, at least the last one and once I remembered 5. But granted, I did wake up briefly several times that particular night. Contrary to the other posters I feel completely restored when waking up, it's really like "sleep is over, you got enough, gotta wake up!" whereas when I combusted I woke up "all glued" and hazy.

It should be noted that I have an interest in lucid dreams and have been training a bit. The first step before being able to have them is to learn how to remember your dreams. Keeping a log or just telling them to someone when you wake up can be enough for that. So why I do agree that normal people don't remember their dreams much (and there are physiological mechanisms to make you forget, I think as a protection mean because it could make you crazy if you were remembering them too much, ie no longer being able to distinguish one "reality" from another, like in the "Inception" movie. Btw the director did his homework before doing this movie as many details are pretty accurate) I think you can learn and train your mind to remember them.

Interestingly and I don't know if there is a correlation, my lucid dreams experiences were not very succesful until I stopped combustion last year. Since then I've had numerous cases of partial to full consciousness, and I was able to maintain the dreams for some time without making them "collapse" (which usually ends up with you waking up)

I even got a few occasions where I dreamt that I was waking up...but was still inside a dream... Apparently it happens more and more frequently to lucid dreamers over time. Again it can be problematic and lead to situations where it's hard to know if you are in the reality or still dreaming (boxes inside boxes...) like depicted in the movie. This is why the "reality check" (aka totem) is a very important aspect of the experience.

It should also be noted that for about 20 years I had a severe case of DSPD (delayed sleep phase disorder) which was borderline "Non-24" (ie I kept sleeping later and later, doing a full circle around the clock in about 1 month and a half) It's a very incapacitating situation at times, unless you are you own boss and have an open minded life partner like I do. Once again I don't know if there is a real correlation because I started not so long ago to force myself into a more stable cycle (but I can relapse very easily and if it was that easy I wouldn't have a disorder) but I feel like there was an improvement since I started vaping... But I don't know, it could be age related too... We tend to be night owls when young and turn into early birds later...complex subject.

Anyways sorry for the long digression, I don't talk much about myself usually but I thought sharing my experience could help other members.