Sleep Paralysis........

lwien

Well-Known Member
Ya know, I experienced this once or twice when I was a young kid, but now it happens periodically whenever I abstain from vaping for a day or two.

I know that cannabis can inhibit REM sleep and therefore inhibit dreaming (been proven in sleep labs) and that when one goes on a t-break, one of the main symptoms is a return to REM and sometimes, overcompensating by increased REM cycles, and therefore increased dreaming and if one wakes up in the middle of a REM cycle, there is the possibility of sleep paralysis, which is really freaky. Don't know if any of you have experienced this, but what happens is, is that your brain purposely paralysis your body when you are dreaming so that you don't act out your dreams and hurt yourself, which is the way it's supposed to be. With sleep paralysis, you wake up, but your brain fails to signal your body that you are awake, and you remain in that paralyzed state for a few to several seconds, possibly up to a minute. It's like, fuck, I'm awake but I can't move. You try to turn over and nothing works. You try to move your head and you can't. Really kind of scary, but then I recently read somewhere that if you happen to find yourself in this situation, that just a wiggle of a finger or a toe can signal your brain that you really are awake, and it reboots itself, and you snap out of it, and I tried that last night and it worked.

I've only experienced this about 4 times in my life, but if you don't know what to expect, it can really freak you out. Anyone else experience this when you go on a t-break?
 
lwien,

bluntfaced

I'm El Diablo Baby!!!
That's happened to me a couple times like when I was a kid having nightmares. So fucking scary
 
bluntfaced,

caseball2051

Well-Known Member
I have experienced this before. It is pretty scary.

I dont know if its similiar, but I have also been in states of sleep where I am aware of my surroundings, but can feel/hear myself snoring. I have full brain activity, but cannot speak.... that shit scares the shit out of me. I do it pretty often. My roommate caught me doing it once during a movie and didnt know what to do.
 
caseball2051,

lwien

Well-Known Member
caseball2051 said:
I have experienced this before. It is pretty scary.

I dont know if its similiar, but I have also been in states of sleep where I am aware of my surroundings, but can feel/hear myself snoring. I have full brain activity, but cannot speak.... that shit scares the shit out of me. I do it pretty often. My roommate caught me doing it once during a movie and didnt know what to do.
Yeah, it's kind of the same thing. With sleep paralysis, your brain is awake, but it doesn't signal your body that you're awake. So odd. It's just really comforting that I now know how to reboot whenever this happens.

I've read that there are some people that are so afflicted with this that it's a chronic situation in that it happens 3 or 4 times a night, every night. Fuck, that would just drive me nuts. Many of these people develop insomnia because they are just too afraid to go to sleep.

Edit: I just thought about something. Considering my experience of this happening when I go on a t-break, it seems that a vaping session at night may be just the thing for those that are really afflicted with this. Another use for medical marijuana, eh?
 
lwien,

AGBeer

Lost in Thought
lwien said:
I just thought about something. Considering my experience of this happening when I go on a t-break
Or just stop taking T-Breaks (slacker) (quitter) (t-breaker) :p
 
AGBeer,

Screwdriver

Well-Known Member
I used to get them a lot as a kid....haven't had an episode in since I was 15ish.

As for REM...I have the most vivid dreams on nights I smoke and wake up super refreshed.
 
Screwdriver,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Screwdriver said:
As for REM...I have the most vivid dreams on nights I smoke and wake up super refreshed.
The complete opposite for me. When I vape at night, I hardly dream at all, but when I don't vape on a particular night, I dream like crazy.
 
lwien,

AGBeer

Lost in Thought
Damn, this kind of makes me sad because I either dont dream a whole lot anymore or Im not remembering them.. :(

Ive had some pretty intense dreams in the past (I need to write some of them down)
I like to dream (even if its scary - as long as its not scary towards my family)

Maybe I should try *NOT* vaping a night or two and see if I dont dream.
 
AGBeer,

Mckdenton

Well-Known Member
I started to make it a point every morning before I stared my day to sit up in bed for a couple mins and remember my dreams. The more i did this, the more I remembered it was cool. why did I stop :uhoh: ?
Dream journals help too.
:peace:
 
Mckdenton,

lwien

Well-Known Member
AGBeer said:
Maybe I should try *NOT* vaping a night or two and see if I dont dream.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Give it a shot and report back. Give it two or three days though. And remember, if you wake up and can't move, don't panic. Just wiggle a finger or wiggle a toe. :/
 
lwien,

Rick

Zapman
Let me see if I have this right. When I wake up, I am supposed to remember my dreams or if I dream? Fuck no, not this old man. I dream like crazy including necessary REM sleep, based on my health and I am refreshed and happy with the world in the morning. I do plenty of the green stuff morning noon and night. So what gives?
I think it helps us sleep better. I cannot imagine nothing at night.
So if nothing at night then more REM sleep? So nothing at night makes me happier the next day? I wanna see a fucking test or something.
 
Rick,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Rick said:
So if nothing at night then more REM sleep? So nothing at night makes me happier the next day? I wanna see a fucking test or something.
Or something...........
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-teenage-mind/200906/marijuana-sleep-and-dreams
http://lucidguide.com/dream-articles/does-marijuana-affect-dreaming
http://brainposts.blogspot.com/2010/06/cocaine-cannabis-and-sleep-architecture.html

Ya might want to read the above links before tackling the wall-o-text below

____________________________________________________________________

Overview of the Sleep Cycle
Before exploring the effect of THC on sleep patterns, a brief review of the human sleep cycle may be helpful. Humans sleep in 5 different stages, differentiated primarily by brain wave patterns measured by electroencephalograph (EEG). Just prior to falling asleep, the typical person is in a relaxed state of consciousness characterized by alpha waves (a frequency of 8 to 12 waves per second). Just after falling asleep, phase 1 of the sleep cycle begins, during which brain activity is still fairly high but declining. Stage 2 is characterized by sleep spindles (12-to 14-Hz waves during a burst that lasts at least half a second) and K-complexes (sharp high-amplitude negative wave followed by a smaller, slower positive wave). The 3rd and 4th stages of sleep are known as slow-wave sleep (SWS). During SWS, heart rate, breathing rate, and brain activity slow down and the percentage of slow, large-amplitude waves increases. After stage 4, a person cycles back through stages 3 and 2. However, instead of returning to stage 1, the person enters a stage of sleep known as rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. REM sleep (also known as paradoxical sleep) is characterized by irregular, low-voltage fast brain waves. Despite this considerable degree of brain activity, the postural muscles of the body are more relaxed than at any other stage of sleep. Dreams are more vivid, intricate, and somewhat more frequent during this stage of sleep. Short-memory is consolidated into long-term memory. Since muscles are most relaxed during REM sleep, the body is best able to repair cells, and this function is vital to the immune system (Farthing, 1992; Kalat, 2001).

THCs effect on SWS and REM sleep stages
Several studies have examined the effect of THC on SWS and REM sleep stages. In one of the earliest studies, rats injected with THC experienced induced bursts of polyspikes (on electrocortigram) just prior to stage 1 sleep. The polyspikes appeared again, overriding totally or partially the REM sleep stages (Masur & Khazan, 1970). Fujimori & Himwich (1973) found that THC caused a decrease in the number of REM sleep episodes in rabbits. By the third day of abstinence, the REM sleep cycle of the rabbits had returned to normal. Moreton & Davis (1973) measured the effect of THC on sleep cycles for both rats that were previously deprived of REM sleep and rats not REM-deprived, finding decreased SWS and REM sleep and increased wakefulness in rats injected with THC. Deniker, Ginestat, Etevenon, & Peron-Magnon (1975) found results verifying earlier research, with the added contribution of demonstrating that THC, when isolated from cannabis, has the same effect on sleep cycles as cannabis itself. The adverse impact of THC on SWS and REM sleep was noted in cats by Fairchild, Jenden, Mickey, & Yale (1979) and again in rats by Buonamici, Young, & Khazan (1982). Freemon (1982) conducted a study using two 23 and 25-year-old brothers, who slept in a laboratory for 27 nights and, following a 4 night break, 4 additional nights. THC administration and placebo administration was provided for both brothers alternately. The subjects experienced a decrease in SWS and REM sleep, and REM sleep had returned to normal about one week after abstinence from THC. However, it should be noted that the sample size for that study was very small. While examining the suspected anticonvulsant properties of 3 different cannabinoids on rats, Colasanti, Lindamood, & Craig (1982) found that both THC and delta-8-tetrahydracannibinol reduced REM sleep.

In the next decade of marijuana research, administration of THC was again found to decrease SWS and virtually eliminate REM stages in 11 cannabis nave subjects aged 21 to 25 years (Tassinari, Ambrosetto, Peraita-Adrado, & Gestaut, 1999). However, Nicholson, Turner, Stone, & Robson (2004) found no effect of THC on nocturnal sleep on the first night of administration, unless administered in combination with cannabidiol, a non-psychoactive cannabinoid. Stage 3 sleep was decreased and wakefulness was increased in a group of 8 healthy 21-34-year-old subjects. However, THC administration by itself did reduce sleep latency on the 2nd day of administration.

Despite the research demonstrating THCs tendency to decrease SWS and REM stage sleep, there is no shortage of individuals who claim that cannabis actually improves human sleep. Such individuals have cited a few sporadic studies that seem to them to confirm this hypothesis. For example, THC ingestion was actually found to decrease measures of sleep apnea (a breathing disorder that decreases restfulness) in rats by polysomonography analysis. However, this study did not examine the impact of THC on SWS or REM stages (Carley, Paviovic, Janelidze, & Radulovacki, 2002). Although it is possible that THC is effective in treating sleep apnea, the research is limited, and this possible relationship does not say anything about sleep quality. Sleep latency has also been examined for administration of THC in combination with sedative substances. For example, THC has been found to prolong pentobarbitone-induced sleep (Paton &Pertwee, 1972; Siemens et al., 1974) and ethanol- and hexobarbital-induced sleep (McCoy, Brown, & Forney, 1978). However, once again, the effect of THC on SWS and REM stages was not explored. Cannabidnol has been demonstrated to significantly decrease wakefulness and decrease SWS without significantly modifying REM sleep time (Siemens, 1974; Monti, 1977; Tassinari, Ambrosetto, Peraita-Adrado, & Gestaut, 1999). However, cannabidiol should not be confused with THC. Cannabidiol is not psychoactive and does not produce a high, nor does it bind to cannabinoid receptor sites (Mechoulam, Parker, & Gallily, 2002). Delta-8-tetrahydracannabinol has been found to induce sedation, enhance 12-hertz burst activity, and decrease the number of REM sleep episodes, while lengthening each REM episode, suggesting clinically useful sedative-hypnotic properties of this cannabinoid (Wallach & Gershon, 2002). However, delta-8-tetrahydracannabinol should not be confused with delta-9-tetrahydracannabinol (THC). One study, however, has resulted in the conclusion that THC significantly stabilizes respiration during all sleep stages, thus minimizing the adverse symptoms of sleep apnea. The suspected mechanism for this effect was cited as THCs serotonin-inhibiting qualities (Carley, Paviovic, & Radulovacki, 2002). However, replications are needed to confirm these conclusions, and the possibility that THC stabilizes respiration does not say anything about sleep quality per se. Also, Rosenkrantz, Fleischman, & Grant (1981) have found that that THC actually caused dyspnea (breathing discomfort or significant breathlessness), among other health complications, in rhesus monkeys, adding some controversy to the equation. Page (1983), while conducting a correlational study on amotivational syndrome in marijuana users, did not find a difference in sleep EEG patterns between marijuana users and non-users in his Costa Rican sample. However, this does not appear to be a well-controlled experiment.

Other Effects of THC on Sleep
The combination of THC ingestion, stress, and REM deprivation has been shown to result in increased aggression in rats (Carlini, Lindsey, & Tufik, 1971; Carlini, 1977). In addition to adversely effecting SWS and REM cycles, withdrawal from THC use also appears to contribute to sleep problems. The 8 subjects in a study summarized in the preceding section experienced reduced sleep latency and changes in mood the day after THC ingestion (Nicholson, Turner, Stone, & Robson, 2004). Two subjects in the study conducted by Freemon (1982), summarized in the preceding section, experienced difficulty falling and staying asleep for the first 2 nights following a switch from THC ingestion to placebo ingestion. This 2 day effect was also noted in the rats used by Colasanti, Lindamood, & Craig (1982) in the study noted in the previous section. Difficulty falling and staying asleep and restlessness was noted in 3 studies a few days after abstinence for both people who smoked marijuana and orally ingested THC (Budney, Moore, Vandrey, & Hughes, 2003; Haney et al., 1998a; Haney et al., 1998b). In addition to being commonly cited as a symptom of cannabis withdrawal, sleep disturbance and insomnia are often listed as an effect of long-term cannabis use (e.g. Beers, 2003; FADAA, 2001; Falkowski, 2000; Gold, 1989; Inaba & Cohen, 2003).

Discussion
The bulk of research in this area has demonstrated that THC has a negative impact on sleep quality both during use and during withdrawal, although much of it is outdated (1970s and 1980s) and more recent research is needed. Adolescence and early adulthood are regarded as periods of intense change. For some, these changes include transition to college, establishing a career, and independent living (Santrock, 1999). Young adults, especially students, often do not get adequate sleep. College students who report less sleep tend to not be as satisfied with life (Kelly, 2004). Stress, a lack of sleep, and substance abuse can lead to other problems for college students, including depression (Voelker, 2004). Given THCs adverse impact on sleep quality, it can be concluded that avoidance of THC use would be an advantage for young adults.
 
lwien,

gim

Well-Known Member
I certainly stop dreaming(or remembering them at least) if I am not on a T-break.
Once I stop smoking by the third night I will be having vivid dreams again.
 
gim,

lwien

Well-Known Member
gim said:
I certainly stop dreaming(or remembering them at least) if I am not on a T-break.
Once I stop smoking by the third night I will be having vivid dreams again.
Yeah, the articles above refer to it as REM rebound.
 
lwien,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
I'm on a break at the moment, and haven't noticed any difference.

I have had this though with a previous job I used to do, but it was due to extreme tiredness.

EDIT: to cut a long story short I had often been awake and working 24+ hours before getting home.

However when I had a joint when i got in it used to make me unbelievably stoned.

But I used to get sleep paralysis all the time, I also used to hear people whispering to me and calling my name which was extremely alarming when you can't move, and I also had some type of Out of body experience from time to time.
 
Happycamper,

Rick

Zapman
lwein
I just knew you would give us such thorough info on the subject when I made that comment. Thanks for that.
I also KNOW there is a very wide array of human "normalness", ie the parameters for humans reacting to different substances or foods or air or water or words or looks are very wide. We are all very different even though science can deduct we are all very similar.
I'll keep enjoying herb morning noon and night, dreaming away and waking up refreshed every morning. About 6 hours seems to do me just fine.
And you still are the tightest nug consumer around FC methinks. See how we all differ??
 
Rick,

reece

Well-Known Member
Lwien, what you have been experiencing are called nightmares. I'm not being a smart ass. I never knew the origin of the term.

The original definition of sleep paralysis was codified by Dr. Samuel Johnson in his A Dictionary of the English Language as "nightmare," a term that evolved into our modern definition. Such sleep paralysis was widely considered to be the work of demons and more specifically incubi, which were thought to sit on the chests of sleepers. In Old English the name for these beings was mare or mre (from a proto-Germanic *mar?n, cf. Old Norse mara), hence comes the mare part in nightmare.
This used to happen to me years ago when I wouldn't get much sleep and had very early classes in the morning. I'd make it through class and then drive to the Mississippi River (The Fly for those that know) and sleep in my car. I always felt like someone was keeping me from moving. My mind took me to aliens experimenting. "Don't probe me bro" :lol:

Years later I heard about the "Old Hag." Google Old Hag Syndrome. Also check out the Folklore and Around the World sections of the Wikipedia entry for sleep paralysis



Thanks for the info on snapping yourself out of it. Man that was some scary shit.
 
reece,

caseball2051

Well-Known Member
I think there is 100% direct link between MJ and dreaming. When I vape (nearly always at night) I never dream. Ever.

When I had a T break and went to the Middle East for school, I had some of the most intense dreams of my life. I kind of missed it.
 
caseball2051,

bcleez

Well-Known Member
The only time this happens, and it doesn't really is when I dream, and I think I wake up but I am in another dream, then I wake up... but I can move when I really wake up.
 
bcleez,

dub

vapor newb
sleep paralysis use to happen me when i was a kid , i just thought i grew out of it maybe its the weed i also dont remember dreams , i miss them i only remember little bits now and again
sleep paralysis scared the shit outta me , id be left looking at the dresser at the end of my bed in the dark and it was like it was moving towards me a tiny bit at a time and i was also moving towards it , it was weird shit like their was some force sitting on the dresser , i use to dread it happening lol

i can understand if some people thought it was some kind of alien abduction

good post Iwein
 
dub,

Happycamper

Sweet Dreams Babycakes
There is some connection between sleep paralysis and an out of body experience. This is also linked to Lucid dreaming; becoming aware you are awake in an actual dream and then having the power to control the dream.

Maybe it all just boils down to the sensation that creates the effect. Or maybe it really is a hag or dead cat sitting on your chest sucking out your life force.

BUT a sure fire way to create the effect, is to stay up without sleep for a day or two. Imo. Well, some of the time......

I also used to get a swinging sensation, like i was swaying in and out of my body. Someone explained this was the after effect of being on an aircraft for a prolonged period.

However, why did i hear the whispers and voices?
 
Happycamper,

darkrom

Great Scott!
T-break for 1-2 days = vivid hallucination like dreams 100% of the time for me. A day without cannabis is VERY rare, but these "free trips" almost make it worth it. They definitely help make a day off easier. I guess it's nature's reward for a day of sobriety...a night of insanity.
 
darkrom,

MarcellusWiley

Dab Trotter
I actually used to get this as a kid sometimes. and most recently in the last 5 years it has happened twice.

definitely know what "the hag" feels like... its not fun.

only time in my life (first time it happened) where I really feared for my lifei had no idea what was happening :uhoh:
 
MarcellusWiley,

lwien

Well-Known Member
Funny that this thread was resurrected. I haven't had a bout with this since I first created this thread a year and a half ago.........that was until last night after going on a 2 day T-Break. I totally forgot about the twitch your toe or finger to reboot but instead just panicked for about a minute. I hate when that happens, 'cause the way to get out of it is so simple if I just remembered it. lol
 
lwien,

djonkoman

Well-Known Member
I have had sleep pralysis a few times, but a long while ago now
first time it was weird, I felt like being in danger but being completely powerless since I couldn't move
but after strugling to move I discovered it worked best to just start slow, don't try to make big movements right away or get up, but just try to move one finger, go slow and steady and don't panic
since I discoverec that sleep paralysis has never been thart much f a problem, I have had it a few times more, no idea how often in total, only the first time was memorable since I had that helplessness-feeling , but the later times I knew what to do so wasn't special/memorable
haven't had it on a T-break, that first time was as a kid before I started smoking
 
djonkoman,
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