Baron23
Well-Known Member
Ah...didn't notice that.
Its actually a sad testament to the current state of our society that I even thought this was believable.
Skeptical thinking.
- Thread starter Ricardo
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Its actually a sad testament to the current state of our society that I even thought this was believable.
Ramahs
Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
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Solomon
Talk to the Beard
Philosophy, science, religion - all are searches for the "truth".
Back in my college days (in late 70's), I thought I had it all worked out. 100% scientific method, empirical analysis, etc. It gave me comfort to think I understood the world - or at least had a method to understand it. Now that I am older, I can see that my intellectual comfort was really very similar to what my religious friends got from theology. We don't know everything, but we think we know how to go about "knowing".
What I didn't expect was the direction that scientific discovery would lead us to - quantum physics and chaos theory and self-organizing systems. The "butterfly effect" and the inherent uncertainty of outcomes of deterministic systems. These new concepts go right to the question of determinism - a pillar of physics and some philosophies - that if we simply "knew everything" we could predict all outcomes. As it turns out, since it is impossible to know all the starting conditions of any system, we can never predict outcomes with 100% certainty.
This, it now seems, is the basis for everything we see - from life to galaxies. Endless variety of outcomes, all appearing organized, yet still somewhat chaotic, based on simple principles - and all without the need for any intelligent intervention. A design that appears extremely complex, but based on simple understood properties. Perhaps even a mathematical design (Mandelbrot) - endless variety, yet uniform, and the slightest change results in a completely different pattern and design. This is the natural world we see. Chaos and order, together, creating stars and galaxies, life and people.
I once had a blog called "The Universe and Other Illusions", where I discussed epistemology and the nature of the universe. To me, the biggest question has always been - what is the nature of our reality? If we can understand why the universe is the way it is, I always thought it would also tell us what our place in it is. I also believed that humans evolved into intelligent, self-aware creatures as a function of "survival of the fittest". We are the planets top predator, yet we have no claws or teeth compared to other predators. We are organized tool makers, so THAT was our advantage.
I now believe that our ability to make weapons and adapt to different environments was not how we got to be who we are - it was the result of something else. It's not entirely about intelligence or adaptation. It's about information. Without the shared, combined, legacy of other humans passing down their knowledge, we're just a bunch of inept apes that couldn't even start a fire or make a knife. Old elephants remember where watering holes are and pass that knowledge down to the young - otherwise they would likely die.
So I am one of those people that believe our "purpose" is to gather knowledge and pass it down. That is essentially what "life" does. Even when we mate and make children, we are passing down genetic information. It's a simple system of simple molecules with simple properties that have combined and self-organized into greater and greater complexity with the best outcomes passed down to the next generation. There is chaos, but it's never actually random.
In fact, I so strongly believe that our purpose is to seek knowledge and pass it down, that I think that is what ALL intelligent life in the universe is doing, right now, and one day we will find something, and it will be information/knowledge from what may be a long lost civilization. Just like someone, some day, might find Voyager, and gain the knowledge stored there. There is also a new crystalline storage tech that uses a media that could store petabytes of info and last over 13 billion years (wow). There are projects right now planning on leaving data devices on the Moon and eventually Mars.
I'd like to think there is some "end game" going on. Some eventual pre-planned conclusion to everything. Humans like to think there is a "goal", otherwise, what IS the point of all this "stuff" floating around, changing, evolving, "becoming". But maybe it all just "is", like a Mandelbrot set being tweaked by sub-atomic uncertainty, taking on the appearance of intelligent organization, when the reality is an utterly non-deterministic, yet somewhat predicable, complexity based on a few simple forms of energy. Every big bang produces a universe, but every one is different, even if they started out the same.
So all my attention these days is physics - quantum and cosmology - in particular, the concept of "non-locality" is fascinating. Think of it this way - at some point everything in the universe occupied that same "space". Even more fundamental, it was a quantum space, a single point without spacial dimensions. I think "space' itself is more interesting that all the stuff that's in it. If we can master the nature of "space", we could go anywhere in the universe.
I think I need more coffee now...
Back in my college days (in late 70's), I thought I had it all worked out. 100% scientific method, empirical analysis, etc. It gave me comfort to think I understood the world - or at least had a method to understand it. Now that I am older, I can see that my intellectual comfort was really very similar to what my religious friends got from theology. We don't know everything, but we think we know how to go about "knowing".
What I didn't expect was the direction that scientific discovery would lead us to - quantum physics and chaos theory and self-organizing systems. The "butterfly effect" and the inherent uncertainty of outcomes of deterministic systems. These new concepts go right to the question of determinism - a pillar of physics and some philosophies - that if we simply "knew everything" we could predict all outcomes. As it turns out, since it is impossible to know all the starting conditions of any system, we can never predict outcomes with 100% certainty.
This, it now seems, is the basis for everything we see - from life to galaxies. Endless variety of outcomes, all appearing organized, yet still somewhat chaotic, based on simple principles - and all without the need for any intelligent intervention. A design that appears extremely complex, but based on simple understood properties. Perhaps even a mathematical design (Mandelbrot) - endless variety, yet uniform, and the slightest change results in a completely different pattern and design. This is the natural world we see. Chaos and order, together, creating stars and galaxies, life and people.
I once had a blog called "The Universe and Other Illusions", where I discussed epistemology and the nature of the universe. To me, the biggest question has always been - what is the nature of our reality? If we can understand why the universe is the way it is, I always thought it would also tell us what our place in it is. I also believed that humans evolved into intelligent, self-aware creatures as a function of "survival of the fittest". We are the planets top predator, yet we have no claws or teeth compared to other predators. We are organized tool makers, so THAT was our advantage.
I now believe that our ability to make weapons and adapt to different environments was not how we got to be who we are - it was the result of something else. It's not entirely about intelligence or adaptation. It's about information. Without the shared, combined, legacy of other humans passing down their knowledge, we're just a bunch of inept apes that couldn't even start a fire or make a knife. Old elephants remember where watering holes are and pass that knowledge down to the young - otherwise they would likely die.
So I am one of those people that believe our "purpose" is to gather knowledge and pass it down. That is essentially what "life" does. Even when we mate and make children, we are passing down genetic information. It's a simple system of simple molecules with simple properties that have combined and self-organized into greater and greater complexity with the best outcomes passed down to the next generation. There is chaos, but it's never actually random.
In fact, I so strongly believe that our purpose is to seek knowledge and pass it down, that I think that is what ALL intelligent life in the universe is doing, right now, and one day we will find something, and it will be information/knowledge from what may be a long lost civilization. Just like someone, some day, might find Voyager, and gain the knowledge stored there. There is also a new crystalline storage tech that uses a media that could store petabytes of info and last over 13 billion years (wow). There are projects right now planning on leaving data devices on the Moon and eventually Mars.
I'd like to think there is some "end game" going on. Some eventual pre-planned conclusion to everything. Humans like to think there is a "goal", otherwise, what IS the point of all this "stuff" floating around, changing, evolving, "becoming". But maybe it all just "is", like a Mandelbrot set being tweaked by sub-atomic uncertainty, taking on the appearance of intelligent organization, when the reality is an utterly non-deterministic, yet somewhat predicable, complexity based on a few simple forms of energy. Every big bang produces a universe, but every one is different, even if they started out the same.
So all my attention these days is physics - quantum and cosmology - in particular, the concept of "non-locality" is fascinating. Think of it this way - at some point everything in the universe occupied that same "space". Even more fundamental, it was a quantum space, a single point without spacial dimensions. I think "space' itself is more interesting that all the stuff that's in it. If we can master the nature of "space", we could go anywhere in the universe.
I think I need more coffee now...
GetLeft
Well-Known Member
Great thread, everyone! Figured it's easier saying that than going back and liking all the posts.
I was good up until the Mandelbrot set. Wikipedia couldn't get me through that one.
Ramahs
Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
Think fractals.
Ricardo
Well-Known Member
I'll go out on a limb here and say that we are all probably sick and tired of the trolling and flaming and hating we can find on reddit, twitter, social & mainstream media..... There's no point in doing that on this thread
and FC members are undoubtedly the cleverest, most thoughtful subset of human beings in the universe 
That Mandelbrot post is worth reading twice. I love that people are confident enough to set forward their life philosophy without anyone (so far) suggesting that we are "operating thetans"
C No Ego
Well-Known Member
Every cell is a universe in and upon itself... that spark of life / light... the same light that imbues all of creation and makes us all the same thing with different shapes ( expressions). forming structure from light and keeping structure alive via light and love... love is basically vibration of light, light first love next to keep it there