SideKick by Elev8 Vehicles

[High]

How is it shady to tell people from the get go that they can't have their money back? That seems pretty straight up to me. You may not like it, but it would have been shady to take your money first and tell you later that you can't have it back.

That isn't the shady part and I think we both know that.

For the third time at least now, it's the fact that they knew they wouldn't have it out on the date they listed, but persuaded people to believe they would. Them having the three disclaimers about not getting your money back just confirm to me and any critically thinking adult that they knew they wouldn't have the product out on the date listed on the site.

That coupled with them saying it was well past prototype stages (look back on the first few pages if you want to see, in fact I think it was you who they told were well past prototype stages and then a few posts later talked about a new prototype) and then clearly stating they were waiting on another prototype is nothing but shady. It's more than that but even with all the proof I would probably get banned for calling it what it is.

Edit: yep

 

[Jack Sprat]

It says just the glass is made in Colorado. Where will the device itself made?

China. Most of their parts, aside from glass, are made in China. They use terms like 'assembled in the US' as the Chinese parts of their higher end vapes are screwed together in the US. The cheaper ones are assembled in China and 'tested in the US' or something similar is stated. I can't remember the exact wording.

 

[stickstones]

That isn't the shady part and I think we both know that.

For the third time at least now, it's the fact that they knew they wouldn't have it out on the date they listed, but persuaded people to believe they would. Them having the three disclaimers about not getting your money back just confirm to me and any critically thinking adult that they knew they wouldn't have the product out on the date listed on the site.

That coupled with them saying it was well past prototype stages (look back on the first few pages if you want to see, in fact I think it was you who they told were well past prototype stages and then a few posts later talked about a new prototype) and then clearly stating they were waiting on another prototype is nothing but shady. It's more than that but even with all the proof I would probably get banned for calling it what it is.

Edit: yep

I guess we'll just have to disagree. Having been involved with several beta test teams and product releases, I don't see anything out of the norm here. Getting another prototype at the last minute is nothing new when you are trying to squeeze in last minute feature changes. If they end up releasing in February, that will be a pretty quick release from announcement to shipping, compared to other launches.

Anytime they put a date out there with pre-orders there is a chance the date won't be hit. And when that happens there are always a percentage of pre-orders that want to cancel...some of them quite angrily. imo, they were trying to avoid that hassle by letting people that fall into that camp know it's not an option. I'm still waiting for a vape to release that actually hits the first promised date. Vapolution almost did it with their new release, and it was only a week or two late.

 

[Herb-nerd]

The recent changes to the unit have been to to improve the aesthetics and durability. The buttons have been rightfully changed to stainless steel and the top portion (the cap/lid/whoever) has also been changed to match the material of the body.

The made in china discussion is indeed a strange issue, It's much harder to constrain manufacturers legally given the international business relationship. As we already know with many Chinese knock-offs seen in recent years.

It's pretty damn hard to produce every-single-component outside of Asia - Apple products are designed in California, but where are they manufactured?

Given our design is unique and self-produced, there would be serious repercussions for any of our suppliers should any knock-offs creep out from the shadows. They are smart enough businessmen to know this also.

I wouldn't worry about that issue just now

 

[YungLeaner]

The recent changes to the unit have been to to improve the aesthetics and durability. The buttons have been rightfully changed to stainless steel and the top portion (the cap/lid/whoever) has also been changed to match the material of the body.

The made in china discussion is indeed a strange issue, It's much harder to constrain manufacturers legally given the international business relationship. As we already know with many Chinese knock-offs seen in recent years.

It's pretty damn hard to produce every-single-component outside of Asia - Apple products are designed in California, but where are they manufactured?

Given our design is unique and self-produced, there would be serious repercussions for any of our suppliers should any knock-offs creep out from the shadows. They are smart enough businessmen to know this also.

I wouldn't worry about that issue just now

The VIP pen situation is probably why people are nervous.

 

[DrFunkyMD]

Herb Nerd do you know the answer to this question? Does the Sidekick come with a independent battery charger external to the Sidekick?
I ask this because I have had a couple of Arizer Airs and even though they have replaceable batteries I have had two Airs fail because the charging unit which is inside the vaporizer would not charge the battery. An external charger would be sweet. That would also mean I could have spare batteries always charging while using the sidekick.
Thanks

 

[Herb-nerd]

Yeah it comes with an external charger and the cells with be labled/marked in matched pairs to ensure they are charged and used together .

 

[little maggie]

Herb Nerd do you know the answer to this question? Does the Sidekick come with a independent battery charger external to the Sidekick?
I ask this because I have had a couple of Arizer Airs and even though they have replaceable batteries I have had two Airs fail because the charging unit which is inside the vaporizer would not charge the battery. An external charger would be sweet. That would also mean I could have spare batteries always charging while using the sidekick.
Thanks

Sorry I know this is a sidekick thread but the Air does come with an external charger for batteries and comes with 2 batteries so one is always charged. I've never charged directly from the
Air itself. That may be why yours failed. Unless you mean the Solo.

 

[DrFunkyMD]

Sorry I know this is a sidekick thread but the Air does come with an external charger for batteries and comes with 2 batteries so one is always charged. I've never charged directly from the
Air itself. That may be why yours failed. Unless you mean the Solo.

I have had the 2 Solos and 2 Airs and never once did anyone at the store mention anything about an external battery charger. I agree that would have been a good solution.
This feature seals the deal for me. I have my heart set on getting a Sidekick.

 

[Stevenski]

I think some people are holding a bunch of small or micro businesses to exceptionally high standards. The companies making these vapes are not faceless corporate monoliths but generally vapour enthusiasts operating in very small teams. You know what a lot of stoners are? Super optimistic especially when they craft something with passion & pride. Sort of like video games where the development cycle can blow out significantly.

I have seen posts on FC insinuating some companies are unethical/shady/fradulent/shoddy. I can guaranfuckingtee that each owner of these companies is investing enormous amounts of time, money & emotional energy into projects that get picked to pieces by exceptionally demanding investors who will cruicify them for making a shoddy product.

OK with a company like 7th Floor I would fully expect them to delivery a vaporizer at some stage in the near future for their investors. For any other small company/startup any investor should consider their money at substantial risk & like any gamble may or may not pay off.

There are a lot of things to like about the Sidekick but the only really interesting part for me is the vapour spiral. That does look great to me. Sorry if that went a bit off topic.

 

[smutman]

I think some people are holding a bunch of small or micro businesses to exceptionally high standards. The companies making these vapes are not faceless corporate monoliths but generally vapour enthusiasts operating in very small teams. You know what a lot of stoners are? Super optimistic especially when they craft something with passion & pride. Sort of like video games where the development cycle can blow out significantly.

So by this here, because they are a small company we should hold them to lesser standards of business ethics and standards? Should we expect less customer service as well? Just because your small or a bunch of stoners or just because you pour your heart, time, money and energy; I as a consumer should hold you to lesser standards? Just because you are small doesn't mean you should be treated different or held to different standards. I treat every company the same and expect the same quality product and same quality customer service from each company. If you can't provide that (no matter how big or small or if you are a "enthusiast") I will go buy from someone else. I treat 7th Floor the same as I treat Amazon, as a business who should provide a quality product at a quality price with great customer service

 

[Stevenski]

So by this here, because they are a small company we should hold them to lesser standards of business ethics and standards? Should we expect less customer service as well? Just because your small or a bunch of stoners or just because you pour your heart, time, money and energy; I as a consumer should hold you to lesser standards? Just because you are small doesn't mean you should be treated different or held to different standards.

No, I am saying that if you hold a small start up to the same levels of capability as a major corporation you are delusional at best. I spend my days dealing with both big & small business & can assure you that the smaller the business the less likely they are equipped to deal with supply chain complexities & do not have the formal fail safes & counter checks in place to ensure seamless transition from prototype to production. It is not about having compromised standards it is about understanding a business's capabilities & stetting your expectation accordingly.

I treat every company the same and expect the same quality product and same quality customer service from each company. If you can't provide that (no matter how big or small or if you are a "enthusiast") I will go buy from someone else. I treat 7th Floor the same as I treat Amazon, as a business who should provide a quality product at a quality price with great customer service

I would expect the same level of service if not higher when dealing with 7th floor or any company for an product that in in stock & readily available. Where you run into issues is combining inexperienced supply chains with the unknown teething issues causing delays. Even the most well resourced distribution companies suffer from this let alone manufacturing companies.

Enough with derailing this thread though.

 

[smutman]

No, I am saying that if you hold a small start up to the same levels of capability as a major corporation you are delusional at best. I spend my days dealing with both big & small business & can assure you that the smaller the business the less likely they are equipped to deal with supply chain complexities & do not have the formal fail safes & counter checks in place to ensure seamless transition from prototype to production. It is not about having compromised standards it is about understanding a business's capabilities & stetting your expectation accordingly.

I hold a start up to the same as a major corporation. The ones who can adapt and understand the complexities of the supply chain succeed and grow. The ones who don't die on the vine. Hell half of these vape companies don't even know their break even point let alone anything you just stated up there. The start ups that survive and grow go into understanding this or have someone with at least a business degree to explain and guide (so I'd hope).

You are wrong about being delusional. You just called the overall consumer dumb for expecting the same service from a start up as they should a big business. Bottom line, if your company can't produce; people will go buy from the one who can as a whole. The consumer doesn't care if your a start up or not. The consumer doesn't understand or feel sorry or care overall. The consumer wants its product to be quality, get it quickly with good customer service. You don't provide that then you will disappear with all of the other start ups.

 

[Gonzo]

7th Floor isn't a startup though. They are a well known company (In the vaping world at least) bringing a new product to market. IMO delays are quite common with this type of business.

I remember similar delays with just about every vaporizer I have seen announced here with only a few exceptions coming to mind.

It always amazes me how people frequent threads of a product they don't like or have no interest in just to remind everyone of how little they are interested. Reminds me of all the people bashing the Mighty before even trying it.

Why not say the product isn't for you and just move on?

 

[KeroZen]

Why not say the product isn't for you and just move on?

Because a moderate dose of criticism often proves to be healthy? Because we don't want FC to turn into a fanboy lair, completely biased? Because there always needs to be a counter-power to balance things?

I hold a start up to the same as a major corporation.

That's a strong opinion but I don't share it at all. Having been part of small businesses, there's so much you can do in 24h per day when you don't have funds and manpower, and you need to rest a little regularly or you die. In your logic, only companies having business angels and large investors behind them right from the start should exist and survive. And as you can't start bigger than the existing big cats, you would always be doomed to failure, because you would always be inferior.

No, thanksfully people know how to appreciate boutique works and crafts according to their just value. If a company is two people, I don't expect them to fullfil the work of a team of 100 each having a dedicated position. I don't expect inventors and engineers to be good sales and support persons for instance, and so on.

 

[smutman]

No, thanksfully people know how to appreciate boutique works and crafts according to their just value. If a company is two people, I don't expect them to fullfil the work of a team of 100 each having a dedicated position. I don't expect inventors and engineers to be good sales and support persons for instance, and so on.

If you can't provide a quality product, delivery fairly quick and provide good/excellent customer service then myself and most consumers will move on to the company that can. That's the bottom line cause Stone Cold said so.

 

[Gonzo]

Because a moderate dose of criticism often proves to be healthy? Because we don't want FC to turn into a fanboy lair, completely biased? Because there always needs to be a counter-power to balance things?



That's a strong opinion but I don't share it at all. Having been part of small businesses, there's so much you can do in 24h per day when you don't have funds and manpower, and you need to rest a little regularly or you die. In your logic, only companies having business angels and large investors behind them right from the start should exist and survive. And as you can't start bigger than the existing big cats, you would always be doomed to failure, because you would always be inferior.

No, thanksfully people know how to appreciate boutique works and crafts according to their just value. If a company is two people, I don't expect them to fullfil the work of a team of 100 each having a dedicated position. I don't expect inventors and engineers to be good sales and support persons for instance, and so on.

I dislike fanboys as chad the next guy. Not sure how waiting to try something is being a fanboy though.

I think constructive criticism is good. It seems a lot of people just enjoy beating dead horses is all.

 

[Gameface]

I pre-ordered the sidekick recently. A couple days ago I sent a message through the 7th Floor website asking a couple questions but haven't heard back yet. I'll ask again here as I assume a few people who have pre-ordered or are thinking about pre-ordering might also be interested.

1) Color selection. There is no option during the pre-order process to select a color. I asked if that option was going to be presented at some point. I assume it will be, but there's no information that I have seen regarding that.

2) The list of included items says that it will come with an oil can OR ceramic flavor disk. Again, there is nothing during the pre-order process that allows you to select which of those you'd like. I assumed when reading the list that both would be available and the buyer would be able to pick which option they preferred. Would like to hear back from 7th Floor confirming if that's the case or not. And if it is the buyer's option, when will pre-order buyers be given the opportunity to make that selection?

They are still saying that they plan to ship mid to late January. Mid-January is about a week away, so I'd assume if color and ceramic disk vs oil can options are going to be presented to pre-order buyers it would have to come right about now. That leads me to believe mid-January shipping is off the table. An update on expected ship date would be appreciated. I'm not in a hurry to get the unit, but don't want to be passing deadlines without communication from 7th Floor. If they are shipping mid-January then they must know that at this point. If they are not it would be nice if they would update the expected shipping dates.

 

[pakalolo]

That's enough Business 101 for this thread. You're welcome to take up the discussion in the Lounge.

 

[DrFunkyMD]

I just sold my Pax 2 and I am going to use the money from that sale to buy this. I hope it is easy to clean. When Steve from 7th floor demos it in the video the lid is very dirty. I hope its just because he is lazy or not very good at cleaning his machine.

The other thing I am wondering about is below the stirring wheel on the side there are a bunch of holes which I think might be for intake or ventilation but below those holes there is a small square box. I have not seen them use it or any indication what it is.

Mod note: posts merged

 

[Stevenski]

Steve's enthusiasm is infectious & now I am undecided as to if I shave my holiday beard or keep a mo & grow me some mouth twirlers .

 

[Likes2vape]

It looks like it's going to be an awesome vape. Pretty sweet they are giving 2 sets of batteries. I just about spit my drink out laughing when Steve was super stoked that it goes up to 11.

 

[Harmoniousliving]

I am completely 100% SOLD. I am going to place a pre-order as soon as I have the color thing figured out.

Same. When I get the funds. I used to be way info desktops now I'm all about portables

 

[WakeAndVape]

Steve's enthusiasm is infectious & now I am undecided as to if I shave my holiday beard or keep a mo & grow me some mouth twirlers .

I always thought his 'stash was fake...lol

It looks like it's going to be an awesome vape. Pretty sweet they are giving 2 sets of batteries. I just about spit my drink out laughing when Steve was super stoked that it goes up to 11.

Yea, but they look like half the size of a 18650...wonder why they didn't just go for one.

 

[little maggie]

I have to leave this board. I can't afford every new vape and now I really want this. The only thing that is keeping me from ordering is the no return. At some point it will end up at PIU and I can wait given that I hope to get the Zion somewhat soon.