SideKick by Elev8 Vehicles

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
What most people dislike about electronic conduction designs is the fact that the load is cooked between hits and that spoils the taste. Even worst it destroys efficiency as a lot of the good stuff in the load never reach the lungs. You can collect the resins that remain in the unit most of the times but it doesn't taste the same… So it is important for a potential customer to have all the correct info before spending valuable cash, right? And the Sidekick bears no resemblance to the Solo, Air, Crafty/Mighty since the air is not heated prior to reaching the load! It is better compared with the likes of PAX, Indica, Alfa, Flowermate and a myriad of chinese vapes… Not saying that it doesn't work, right? Some of these vapes are amazing! But lets say it the way it is, ok?
 

Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
Usually when we talk around here for ways of heating we mean the way the load is heated and not the way the produced vapor is transferred to our mouth… Hence the Sidekick will be a conduction/radiation vaporizer. All iz vell! ;)

HAHA here was me thinking it was my breathing that brought the air into my mouth.

I have the tools to see myself the effect of airflow on the load temperature. So i needn't worry.

I'm happy that it's a combo....strictly convection vapes rip apart my lungs with any temperature but low temp. A conduction/convection hybrid is ideal for a portable IMHO much like the Solo, Air, Crafty, Mighty.

Thanks so much @Herb-nerd for answering our questions, providing updates, and putting up with the naysayers/complainers. It's nice to have you here in this thread.

Im trying, thanks.

I have 3 things running at once so jumping online can be sporadic with my current workload.


What most people dislike about electronic conduction designs is the fact that the load is cooked between hits and that spoils the taste. Even worst it destroys efficiency as a lot of the good stuff in the load never reach the lungs. You can collect the resins that remain in the unit most of the times but it doesn't taste the same… So it is important for a potential customer to have all the correct info before spending valuable cash, right? And the Sidekick bears no resemblance to the Solo, Air, Crafty/Mighty since the air is not heated prior to reaching the load! It is better compared with the likes of PAX, Indica, Alfa, Flowermate and a myriad of chinese vapes… Not saying that it doesn't work, right? Some of these vapes are amazing! But lets say it the way it is, ok?
Who is saying otherwise?
 

gayguyproblems

New Member
Will this be stocked in the UK? I've been looking to purchase the Super Surfer, but could not find it being stocked anywhere in the UK. I was wondering if it will be just as difficult to get hold of this? I know you're in the UK so can appreciate the costs of importing such an expensive item with custom charges etc.
 
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biohacker

HREAM
@natural farmer, I don't think i've ever used a primarily conduction vape yet then, except for trying a friend's Pax2 which I couldn't even get any vapour from due to improper technique I suppose. I guess i'm not a fan of pure conduction, so I guess if the SK is more like the Pax and less like the solo/air, crafty/mighty, i'm losing interest.
 

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
For myself a strictly conduction style portable is very useful with people that are new to vaping. Usually all you need to do is pull slowly so the heater can keep up. However the flavor is diminished greatly after the first few pulls. Still it tastes a million times better than combustion does to me. But my smoking buddies would rather burn then taste the burned popcorn flavor. Its all in the users preference.
I've never really thought about @biohackers experiences of convections hot air on the throat but it makes sense to me. The combo heater could very well bake the load at a much Lower temp and over the time of the session slowly bringing the full load to vape temps.I can for sure see where the heat would be a lot less harsh on the throat.
I can't wait to see what it really looks like and a even more important how it performs. I'm at the point where aesthetics take a back seat to performance.
 

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
For myself a strictly conduction style portable is very useful with people that are new to vaping. Usually all you need to do is pull slowly so the heater can keep up. However the flavor is diminished greatly after the first few pulls. Still it tastes a million times better than combustion does to me. But my smoking buddies would rather burn then taste the burned popcorn flavor. Its all in the users preference.
I've never really thought about @biohackers experiences of convections hot air on the throat but it makes sense to me. The combo heater could very well bake the load at a much Lower temp and over the time of the session slowly bringing the full load to vape temps.I can for sure see where the heat would be a lot less harsh on the throat.
I can't wait to see what it really looks like and a even more important how it performs. I'm at the point where aesthetics take a back seat to performance.

I agree with most u said bro, but this is not a combo heater… It's an Indica-like one from what we read. Maybe they bring a new PAX2-like technology though and the taste doesn't diminish so fast… :\
 
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Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
Shall i help a little here, i wish i could do more.

The heater is custom made ceramic, circular in shape with the bud contained within the heater. The air enters beneath the heater and passes a small portion of the hot ceramic before it enters. The produced vapour is taken through a helical route to cool the vapour and exits through a glass retractable mouthpiece.

Closed loop control circuitry allows for temperature regulation and control.

The batteries are removed from the bottom as is the helical cooler for cleaning.

The gear (poorly represented in my cad model, pictures should be up soon so i wont spend much time trying to fix it i'm afraid. One has to prioritise tasks :( ) is connected to a small stir tool that rotates in the bowl when turned.

Don't take the picture up at the moment for 100% face value, the finish shows the powder coating rather accurately and the shape and position of the buttons and screen are almost identical (except a possible mirroring).

This is the first portable we are releasing, i am working on other designs for other uses and all are concurrent as it stands.


As soon as i get my hands on this new batch, ill be sure to post pics and videos.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Alright, so this seems more like an Ascent, but better, like a next gen. Mostly conduction, but a bit of convection/radiation in a way, but in my mind session conduction classification for sure... So not for me but still intriguing and always nice to have more competition, and good for 7th floor to be able to really compete in the portable game in any way

Yeah on demand convection just ruined me for session conduction, hate constant cooking and for me its always so much harsher (maybe bc of so many forced back to back hits in so little time?). Would've been neat to see a portable LSV, but I found that in Zion so I'm quite satisfied either way personally.

Good luck @Herb-nerd and the team! Looking forward to seeing how this rolls out and what the final product is like
 

Frank Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Unless you're pulling hot air directly from a heating source over your herbs it is a conduction vaporizer with possible accidental convection occurring at some point.
 
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Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
Alright, so this seems more like an Ascent, but better, like a next gen. Mostly conduction, but a bit of convection/radiation in a way, but in my mind session conduction classification for sure... So not for me but still intriguing and always nice to have more competition, and good for 7th floor to be able to really compete in the portable game in any way

Yeah on demand convection just ruined me for session conduction, hate constant cooking and for me its always so much harsher (maybe bc of so many forced back to back hits in so little time?). Would've been neat to see a portable LSV, but I found that in Zion so I'm quite satisfied either way personally.

Good luck @Herb-nerd and the team! Looking forward to seeing how this rolls out and what the final product is like

Me too! i am also exited to get more products out there, i plan to be more involved in the entire production process so will be better positioned to speak on the matters on here.

I am not going to lie, i like conduction for situations where it is beneficial - like extended battery life after you have learned good technique. Though i am much more inclined to convective vaping so would be using a screen most of the time. The good thing about the screens is that the radiated heat maintains the bowl load temps between draws (due to the thermal mass of the heater, though the temp drops rapidly from vape levels it takes increasing longer as the temps lower, meaning the bud is kept warm but not enough to effect the cannabinoids. This allows a lower power requirement when re-heating the bowl meaning reduced wait times for the unit to reach temperature between hits. The effect on battery life has yet to be quantified.)

The oil can will allow use with concentrates much like the haze, though the addition of a small porous ceramic disk improves the quality of this experience in my opinion.

To clarify, with a suspended screen in the heater - the bud is separated from the heater resulting in more convective heat transfer with some radiative (think MFLB, but with less contact with the heating surface). The air enters the heater where it is heated and travels through the already heated bud to produce an increase in load temperature that constitutes convective extraction.

The suspension of the bud from the heater prevents contact with the heating surface, but allows the radiated heat from the heater to raise the temperature in the bud. If the heater temperature is set at 190c then you can assume the lost heat from the radiative process results in a load temp notably lower than this (especially when heating from cool). When the air is drawn through the heater it increases in temperature close to or just below the the heater temperature - this raises the load temperature to the level require for vaporization and produces vapour by convection. As the heated air pushes the temperature of the load from below vaporization temperature to the temperature required.

The heater would be disengaged before the draw had stopped which would lower the heater temperature to a level below vaporization temperatures, and the bud temps even more so.

The bud is still surrounded by warm air and radiative heat which keeps its temperature up so that when the heating process is started again the hot air combined with the added heat from the now powered heater pushes the temperature of the load to desired vaporization temperatures once more.

This is repeated with each draw, if you draw more frequently then the bud will remain at a higher temperature and will indeed degrade between hits. But hitting more often reduces the effects of this to a degree depending on how often you hit it. The less often you hit it the cooler the heater and load will be after each draw and the effect of degradation of the bud is minimized accordingly.

So if you are worried about conduction, use a screen to suspend the bud. If you hit it more often, there is much less time for the bud to degrade - Just disengage the heater for the last 3 or so seconds of your draw to lower the temps.

If you hit it less often, then the unit will have much more time to cool between hits and wont accumulate heat which would degrade the bud.

Conduction is good for heavy hitting quick, and uses less power. I can use small amounts of bud and roast it well for a quick top-up if required this way.

I understand the scepticism, i am a sceptical motherfucker myself! But there is alot that can be done to change the way a vaporizer operate by altering the heating configuration. I believe versatility to be beneficially personally.

The vaporizer also features a screen above the load which furthers the even heating of the load.

I am a huge fan of the MFLB crew and all they do, and like to employ the same technique based optimization that they do.

Not to say it doesn't function without these tips, but they can make a large improvement when you learn how to use a unit.

You can consider it to be like the solo style heating configuration when used for conduction/convection and a conductive modification on this when used with suspended screens.

Though the bowl size is larger than that of the solo but both of the devices employ the same method to pre-heat the incoming air.

Hot swapping batteries, an LCD screen, larger heater and extended cooling path are a few of the features that make the two differ of-course.

I hope that made sense, feel free to question anything that seems out of place.
 
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Frank Reynolds

Well-Known Member
I'll reserve my judgement until I get a chance to try one or read some reviews, but simply moving a screen up a little bit in a conduction vaporizer is not going to come even close to replicating a vaporizer that was designed for convection.
 

Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
I'll reserve my judgement until I get a chance to try one or read some reviews, but simply moving a screen up a little bit in a conduction vaporizer is not going to come even close to replicating a vaporizer that was designed for convection.
I am unaware of any purely convective portables on the market?
 
Herb-nerd,

Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
The grasshopper does a good job of insulating the chamber, a damn good job. But the thermal mass of the unit results in a similar situation to that stated above, to a lesser degree of course.

Can anyone enlighten me on the zion heater configuration? i cant see it well enough.
Similar with the elevape.

The conduction/convection combo is simply a way of saying the oven sides get very hot and has preheated hot moving air pulled through the load to help produce vapor. As was previously said another way of looking at it is as heat radiation acting upon a load and working a lot like an oven. The Firefly by contrast is strictly convection meaning only hot moving air extracts the vapor. The SideKick according to the information is going to primarily heat the load to get vapor. My guess is this vape is more conductive than convection. I think the added stirring feature is going to put this vape over the top.

Totally forgot about the firefly, totally correct. Thats pure convection.
 

Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
Of course you have the obvious Firefly. No conduction going on there. You can stick your finger in the bowl and fire it up and never gets more than slightly warm. Pure convection vape.


I think this is a bullshit statement with all due respect. Real convection is heated air being drawn through the load to produce an extraction. According to your statement this is not what is happening. :peace:

Far from the case, if i were to put a modified basket screen into a heater and increase the distance from the walls and bottom - the air would be heated before entering the bowl - which would not be cooked until inhaled through. A higher SP temp is required but none-the less, the heating process is simply a matter of heater proximity and configuration with regards to the load.
 
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pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
As soon as someone has one, this whole convection/conduction debate can be easily resolved. Simple put a load in the SideKick and turn on the heat, then watch for vapour. You will not seen anything from a true convection vapourizer like the Zion for a long time, if at all. The SK is using the same raised screen method that the FlashVAPE has used for a couple of years. The FV's ceramic spacer raises the screen 2 mm, providing a degree of convection. The problem is that the raised screen also heats up and so adds an element of conduction. If you do the test for the FV, you will see vapour starting after only a few seconds. I predict it will be the same for the SK.
 

natural farmer

Well-Known Member
I believe we forget that in order for air to be heated to vaporizing temperatures the heater has to reach much higher temperatures than 150-232C… The heaters in conduction vapes don't usually go beyond 232C so any amount of air that passes around/inside them will just become moderately hotter than ambient temp. There is no way a screen placement makes a conduction design behave like a convection one! I would expect an engineer and designer of such a well known company that makes convection desktops would be aware of that… What is the temp that the heaters in the Silver Surfer and LSV reach to be able to heat ambient air to vaporization temps???
 

phattpiggie

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
@natural farmer it may not behave like a convection vape but even if it adds the minutest amount of convected air it's all of a sudden deemed a hybrid. Some people can read between the lines and have the knowledge to understand it's a sales pitch. It's probably more pre-heated air than truly convected. Minimal pre-heat at that given ambients and draw speed.
 

Herb-nerd

7th Floor: Engineer & Designer
Company Rep
I believe we forget that in order for air to be heated to vaporizing temperatures the heater has to reach much higher temperatures than 150-232C… The heaters in conduction vapes don't usually go beyond 232C so any amount of air that passes around/inside them will just become moderately hotter than ambient temp. There is no way a screen placement makes a conduction design behave like a convection one! I would expect an engineer and designer of such a well known company that makes convection desktops would be aware of that… What is the temp that the heaters in the Silver Surfer and LSV reach to be able to heat ambient air to vaporization temps???
When the time comes around, ill show the very heater in the sidekick behaving like a conduction vape. I have done it with similar heaters before so i am speaking from experience.

You don't need to trust me.

Theres no need for the animosity, the ssv and lsv have alot more mass around the load which sucks away an appreciable amount of heat, as tested by myself.

Ask the fans of log vaporizers - see if they notice a difference in heater proximity and roasting tube mass.
Im no fool - not with this at least. I only speak from my experience testing the heat transfer characteristics of numerous configurations of many years.
 
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