Safety of the Grasshopper silicone mouthpiece

[peaceonearth]

Regarding the silicone mouthpiece, I don’t plan on using it for 2 reasons, one being safety concerns. Silicone is a synthetic polymer, kind of a cross between synthetic rubber & plastic. Although it’s “considered safe” for bakeware, there's a lack of studies that have adequately tested it at high temps. It was given the green light by the FDA for food-grade applications back in ’79, then later started being used for cookware but there were no follow-up FDA studies to see if the cookware was leaching any harmful substances. Some recent peer-reviewed studies have indeed found some leaching of toxic undesirables. I'm getting this info from more than one source but this was the most comprehensive:
http://www.lifewithoutplastic.com/store/is_silicone_a_plastic#.Viz6M2SrTUY

The other reason is that after being used for awhile it starts turning that yucky yellow, blech! Would love to find an organic alternative that doesn’t take too much away from portability & stealthiness.

@dac13 not sure if that’s what I have in mind but looks interesting ... can you please provide a link, thanks!

Mod note: This post has been split in order to move off-topic materials safety discussion

 

[Snappo]

Lips after extended Grasshopper use with silicone mouthpiece -

Spoiler

 

[peaceonearth]

Yeah well, don't know 'bout you but I'm particular about what I suck on

 

[dac13]

First, thanks you guys for all the great charger info . Can't wait to have batteries for my MFLB, GH & Zion all charging in my new Nitecore D4 at once

Regarding the silicone mouthpiece, I don’t plan on using it for 2 reasons, one being safety concerns. Silicone is a synthetic polymer, kind of a cross between synthetic rubber & plastic. Although it’s “considered safe” for bakeware, there's a lack of studies that have adequately tested it at high temps. It was given the green light by the FDA for food-grade applications back in ’79, then later started being used for cookware but there were no follow-up FDA studies to see if the cookware was leaching any harmful substances. Some recent peer-reviewed studies have indeed found some leaching of toxic undesirables. I'm getting this info from more than one source but this was the most comprehensive:
http://www.lifewithoutplastic.com/store/is_silicone_a_plastic#.Viz6M2SrTUY

The other reason is that after being used for awhile it starts turning that yucky yellow, blech! Would love to find an organic alternative that doesn’t take too much away from portability & stealthiness.

@dac13 not sure if that’s what I have in mind but looks interesting ... can you please provide a link, thanks!

http://www.dhgate.com/product/glass...4-4mm-joint/261593214.html#s2-0-1a|4088939379

I would also prefer to avoid heating the silicon for similar reasons. a hemp sleeve would be sweet!

 

[PAZ]

First, thanks you guys for all the great charger info . Can't wait to have batteries for my MFLB, GH & Zion all charging in my new Nitecore D4 at once

Regarding the silicone mouthpiece, I don’t plan on using it for 2 reasons, one being safety concerns. Silicone is a synthetic polymer, kind of a cross between synthetic rubber & plastic. Although it’s “considered safe” for bakeware, there's a lack of studies that have adequately tested it at high temps. It was given the green light by the FDA for food-grade applications back in ’79, then later started being used for cookware but there were no follow-up FDA studies to see if the cookware was leaching any harmful substances. Some recent peer-reviewed studies have indeed found some leaching of toxic undesirables. I'm getting this info from more than one source but this was the most comprehensive:
http://www.lifewithoutplastic.com/store/is_silicone_a_plastic#.Viz6M2SrTUY

The other reason is that after being used for awhile it starts turning that yucky yellow, blech! Would love to find an organic alternative that doesn’t take too much away from portability & stealthiness.

@dac13 not sure if that’s what I have in mind but looks interesting ... can you please provide a link, thanks!

Silicone is used widely in the medical industry, from food tubes, to implants, to sex toys. It's safe for the body. In regards to the high temperature, silicone can have up to an operating temperature between -100 to 300 degrees celsius. Not to mention nowadays there's plenty of different types of silicone rubber.

I understand you have your doubts and i'm not trying to persuade you to use it, just giving the other side of the argument as well. I personally prefer sources that wouldn't have an alternative motive such as stores that sell non-silicone based products.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/An+overview+of+silicone+rubber.-a0105557239
http://www.shinetsusilicone-global.com/catalog/pdf/rubber_e.pdf

 

[peaceonearth]

Silicone is used widely in the medical industry, from food tubes, to implants, to sex toys. It's safe for the body. In regards to the high temperature, silicone can have up to an operating temperature between -100 to 300 degrees celsius. Not to mention nowadays there's plenty of different types of silicone rubber.

I understand you have your doubts and i'm not trying to persuade you to use it, just giving the other side of the argument as well. I personally prefer sources that wouldn't have an alternative motive such as stores that sell non-silicone based products.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/An+overview+of+silicone+rubber.-a0105557239
http://www.shinetsusilicone-global.com/catalog/pdf/rubber_e.pdf

First of all, I’m perfectly cool with differing opinions - a cordial discussion exchanging opposing views is a beautiful thing. Also nobody more fervently believes in your right to do as you please with your own self as I do. So I hope my post didn’t come off preachy…. just presenting my own view and possibly some info that might interest some people.

Also I agree that a site that’s selling stuff brings down it’s credibility at least somewhat - honestly hadn’t even noticed till you pointed it out that the site I had linked to had a store. But the studies they referenced showing leaching were not their own studies, they were peer-reviewed scientific studies done by reputable third parties. (would expound on that if i had more time but i'll spare everyone )

As for silicone being widely used in the medical industry, there’s a LOT of stuff used by the medical industry that I wouldn’t touch with a 10-ft pole. Plus none of the applications you listed involve heat. (well, maybe the sex toys ) And its "ability to withstand heat" doesn't mean it isn't leaching chems.

I can’t find anything about health or toxicity studies on the pages you linked to. Personally until I see scientific proof that my concerns are unfounded, I’d rather not take the chance. Same reason I eat 100% organic, live out in the country and ordered a Zion

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

I'm actually anxiously awaiting the 18 mm colored silicone tips they'll be releasing once all their orders are done. (I'm tired of dropping my adapter out of my tube) My son uses silicone on his bottle nipples, we both love it! different strokes!

 

[Snappo]

First of all, I’m perfectly cool with differing opinions - a cordial discussion exchanging opposing views is a beautiful thing. Also nobody more fervently believes in your right to do as you please with your own self as I do. So I hope my post didn’t come off preachy…. just presenting my own view and possibly some info that might interest some people.

Also I agree that a site that’s selling stuff brings down it’s credibility at least somewhat - honestly hadn’t even noticed till you pointed it out that the site I had linked to had a store. But the studies they referenced showing leaching were not their own studies, they were peer-reviewed scientific studies done by reputable third parties. (would expound on that if i had more time but i'll spare everyone )

As for silicone being widely used in the medical industry, there’s a LOT of stuff used by the medical industry that I wouldn’t touch with a 10-ft pole. Plus none of the applications you listed involve heat. (well, maybe the sex toys ) And its "ability to withstand heat" doesn't mean it isn't leaching chems.

I can’t find anything about health or toxicity studies on the pages you linked to. Personally until I see scientific proof that my concerns are unfounded, I’d rather not take the chance. Same reason I eat 100% organic, live out in the country and ordered a Zion

Vaped herb is not completely absent harmful constituents, only much less than combusted (and probably much more than the few parts per billion from any speculatively potential silicone off-gassing). The detergents you may use to machine-wash your clothes that come in contact with your skin impart harmful chemicals that are absorbed into the body. The air you breath in your insulated and filtered homes contains many harmful off-gasses from household materials in furniture, carpets, cleaning agents. The outside air you breathe... toothpaste and mouthwash, tap water & bottled... The list is nearly endless and largely inescapable. All my family have died from cancers, and not one ever drank liqueur, smoked tobacco or weed, absorbed too much sun, or ate unclean unnatural foods. I tend to believe that I am not going to be tempting fate by using a silicone mouthpiece to protect my lips from heat, nor will I live in fear of every little ant that crosses my walking path. But that's just me.

 

[Mr Mellish]

Vaped herb is not completely absent harmful constituents, only much less than combusted (and probably much more than the few parts per billion from any speculatively potential silicone off-gassing). The detergents you may use to machine-wash your clothes that come in contact with your skin impart harmful chemicals that are absorbed into the body. The air you breath in your insulated and filtered homes contains many harmful off-gasses from household materials in furniture, carpets, cleaning agents. The outside air you breathe... toothpaste and mouthwash, tap water & bottled... The list is nearly endless and largely inescapable. All my family have died from cancers, and not one ever drank liqueur, smoked tobacco or weed, absorbed too much sun, or ate unclean unnatural foods. I tend to believe that I am not going to be tempting fate by using a silicone mouthpiece to protect my lips from heat, nor will I live in fear of every little ant that crosses my walking path. But that's just me.

And my family happily flipped the bird at all of those bad things (except weed) and they held onto life with the tenacity of cockroaches when they approached the end!

 

[killick]

My grandad passed away at 98, still smoking (even in the hospital - it was a small town). He was a raging alcoholic, including drinking ether, sprayed through bread slices to help remove the propellant. If Jake is an example of how a great many bad things don't necessarily mean that bad things will happen to you, I'm OK with sticking my lips on a bit of silicone. After the things I stuck my lips on in the Navy this should be the least of my issues

Same reason I eat 100% organic, live out in the country and ordered a Zion

Are we related? Hi cousin

 

[Vape Dr.]

Have any of you guys with working hoppers tried soaking your silicone MP in coconut milk?

Doing this takes any silicone taste away and softens it up a bit.
I for one would not be concerned about a hopper silicone MP killing you! Lol.
Most every portable vaporizer on the market has "surgical grade" or "high temp" silicone.

@Snappo I am all about "safe vapes" trust me, but here is a quote from wikipedia. (there are other sites stating the same thing exact thing).

Silicone rubber is generally non-reactive, stable, and resistant to extreme environments and temperatures from -55 °C to +300 °C while still maintaining its useful properties. Due to these properties and its ease of manufacturing and shaping, silicone rubber can be found in a wide variety of products, including: automotive applications; cooking, baking, and food storage products; apparel such as undergarments, sportswear, and footwear; electronics; medical devices and implants; and in home repair and hardware with products such as silicone sealants.

As you can see food you buy, clothes you wear, and even listening to the radio requires silicone.
So unless you are a naked vegan with no electronics "cell phone" and walk everywhere barefoot living in a tree you are surrounded by silicone all day.

Just my

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

You guys are killing me tonight!

 

[pakalolo]

Our rules state:

• If you have a question or comment regarding material safety, post it in General Discussion. Do not post it in a model thread.

Please confine comments about the safety of the Grasshopper silicone mouthpiece (or silicone in general) to this thread.

 

[max]

Have any of you guys with working hoppers tried soaking your silicone MP in coconut milk?

Doing this takes any silicone taste away and softens it up a bit.
I for one would not be concerned about a hopper silicone MP killing you! Lol.
Most every portable vaporizer on the market has "surgical grade" or "high temp" silicone.

@Snappo I am all about "safe vapes" trust me, but here is a quote from wikipedia. (there are other sites stating the same thing exact thing).

Silicone rubber is generally non-reactive, stable, and resistant to extreme environments and temperatures from -55 °C to +300 °C while still maintaining its useful properties. Due to these properties and its ease of manufacturing and shaping, silicone rubber can be found in a wide variety of products, including: automotive applications; cooking, baking, and food storage products; apparel such as undergarments, sportswear, and footwear; electronics; medical devices and implants; and in home repair and hardware with products such as silicone sealants.

As you can see food you buy, clothes you wear, and even listening to the radio requires silicone.
So unless you are a naked vegan with no electronics "cell phone" and walk everywhere barefoot living in a tree you are surrounded by silicone all day.

Just my

Good post. Worrying about a silicone mouthpiece, safety wise, is a waste of time. Not only is the material safe at higher temps than used with vaporizing, once the vapor has reached the mouthpiece the temp is considerably lower.

 

[KeroZen]

While I agree a mouthpiece should not be much of a concern, you should think twice before dismissing silicone health risks altogether.

Ever heard of plasticizers like BPA or phtalates? Yes, those were FDA approved, food grade and al before proven otherwise and getting banned in many countries... And those two are just the most well known ones.

As with all plastics, the polymer might be safe but sometimes the monomers are not (and the polymerisation process is never 100% complete, so you are always left with monomers that escape over time) and most importantly, problems come from the plasticizers used, that also tend to leach out over time. Any discoloration or change of texture and apparence is usually a sign that the plasticizers are going away and the plastic is experiencing structural changes.

I already posted some information about that in the Ascent thread. It was a reference to the handbook of plasticizers and it listed the most common ones used in silicone. You can find the usual suspects and worse in there.

PS: note that in the Ascent case the silicone is touching the ceramic bowl and in direct contact with the vapor.

 

[RUDE BOY]

Still love to use my underdog old style stems and Toasty top turbo tubes, never tasted anything off with 'em and never had a thought of them being harmful so I say if you can use silicone as the bowl itself can't see it being a problem as a simple mouthpiece.

...

 

[herbivore21]

Regarding the silicone mouthpiece, I don’t plan on using it for 2 reasons, one being safety concerns. Silicone is a synthetic polymer, kind of a cross between synthetic rubber & plastic. Although it’s “considered safe” for bakeware, there's a lack of studies that have adequately tested it at high temps. It was given the green light by the FDA for food-grade applications back in ’79, then later started being used for cookware but there were no follow-up FDA studies to see if the cookware was leaching any harmful substances. Some recent peer-reviewed studies have indeed found some leaching of toxic undesirables. I'm getting this info from more than one source but this was the most comprehensive:
http://www.lifewithoutplastic.com/store/is_silicone_a_plastic#.Viz6M2SrTUY

The other reason is that after being used for awhile it starts turning that yucky yellow, blech! Would love to find an organic alternative that doesn’t take too much away from portability & stealthiness.

@dac13 not sure if that’s what I have in mind but looks interesting ... can you please provide a link, thanks!

Mod note: This post has been split in order to move off-topic materials safety discussion

Silicone rubbers tend to release ammonia and other nasties starting at about 140 centigrade (284f). Given the short airpath, it is not impossible that heat from the mouthpiece could exceed this and create a problem. Still, it depends on the specific silicone rubber in use and various other factors.

 

[pakalolo]

While I agree a mouthpiece should not be much of a concern, you should think twice before dismissing silicone health risks altogether.

Ever heard of plasticizers like BPA or phtalates? Yes, those were FDA approved, food grade and al before proven otherwise and getting banned in many countries... And those two are just the most well known ones.

As with all plastics, the polymer might be safe but sometimes the monomers are not (and the polymerisation process is never 100% complete, so you are always left with monomers that escape over time) and most importantly, problems come from the plasticizers used, that also tend to leach out over time. Any discoloration or change of texture and apparence is usually a sign that the plasticizers are going away and the plastic is experiencing structural changes.

I already posted some information about that in the Ascent thread. It was a reference to the handbook of plasticizers and it listed the most common ones used in silicone. You can find the usual suspects and worse in there.

PS: note that in the Ascent case the silicone is touching the ceramic bowl and in direct contact with the vapor.

This sort of thing is about risk management. Assume that your concern is justified and leaching occurs. What is the increase in risk? Is it large enough to warrant avoidance?

You might well conclude that it is, but many (including me) would say that the difference is inconsequential.

 

[KeroZen]

@pakalolo : fair enough. And in that precise case (GH mouthpiece cover) I wouldn't care either. For my Ascent I'm a bit more concerned because the silicone around the bowl became brittle and lost a small chunk already, and even if seasoned I can clearly taste it in the vapor (it's even clearer after using the Zion daily and getting back to the Ascent)

 

[RUDE BOY]

@KeroZen Didn't they have some kinda screw-up with the Ascent and make a bunch of 'em with Uncured silicone? I've been using a couple of silicone bowls on my Old core underdog for close to 2 years now and the silicone is still as pliable and soft, like when they were new. I'd be concerned too if they became brittle and started losing chunks off of them.