Retiring flowers

[syrupy]

Flowers seem so natural, like how the Creator intended?

How long ago was the first concentrate made? Maybe in ancient times, a cannabis plant was growing near a hot spring, and the heat caused the resins to run down the stalk. Even still, those lucky people still probably combusted that concentrate. A true mark of evolution came when the first man or woman said, fuck this, just give me that clear vapor baby!

 

[herbivore21]

Flowers seem so natural, like how the Creator intended?

How long ago was the first concentrate made? Maybe in ancient times, a cannabis plant was growing near a hot spring, and the heat caused the resins to run down the stalk. Even still, those lucky people still probably combusted that concentrate. A true mark of evolution came when the first man or woman said, fuck this, just give me that clear vapor baby!

Whilst I avoid appeals to nature (beware of the naturalistic fallacy - just because something occurs in nature, does not entail that it is good for you!) or any kind of Creator since I don't personally have any such belief - You bring up a great question there!

I wonder how far we could trace back concentrates through human history? I know hashmaking traditions go quite far back in the near and far east, but as to the specific beginnings - that would be a great topic for a PhD student somewhere to explore (if someone hasn't already done it and I'm just unfamiliar )

 

[CarolKing]

I can't imagine retiring flowers over just concentrates. With the flowers we have such diversity and taste. Why can't we live a contented life with both? Waxes and shatters aren't always found. When I bought in the black market I had no access to BHOs or Shatter. It sounds like it's that way in a lot of areas.

If you are able to grow your own flowers and know how to make concentrates that gives you more choices and it's not as costly.

 

[Farid]

I think the best thing about concentrates is the ability to medicate quickly, discreetly, and heavily. It's perfect for people with conditions that require high tolerances, as medicating with flowers can take longer.

I just personally find the most therapeutic effects from keeping my tolerance low, so I've come back to flowers.

I would switch to just concentrates if I had a family I had to hide my use from, or if my landlord wasn't ok with weed. When I've gone months only using concentrates I've not felt I was missing anything from flowers. When I came back to flowers, however, I did notice a significantly different, more stoning effect. It could have just been from switching strains though.

 

[treeman]

I've basically stopped using cannabis. I toked mostly daily for 8 and a half years but about 6-8months ago I completely stopped. Recently I've ben getting stoned on occasion, maybe once a month. But whenever I vape some flowers I always regret it. I find it foggy, and antisocial. It doesn't seem like it benefits me at all. However a dab, just a small dab gets me going, gets me talking loads of pish and going on rants and I generally find it much more hilarious than the sedative effect I get off of weed.
This to me is interesting as when I toked herb daily I would prefer flowers over concentrates as I found concentrates to be more draining and short lived.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

There's nothing wrong with concentrates every once in a while, but I'd be upset if that's all there was available. There's something about flowers that just can't be matched by extracts, imo. Most likely the assortment of various cannabinoids/terpenes found in flowers, that aren't included in most concentrates. I feel like vaporizing some high quality buds through a nice glass water piece is like the equivalent of drinking fine wine, whereas dabbing is like slamming shots of high proof stuff to get wasted as quickly as possible. They each have their place. I just prefer flowers most of the time.

 

[NorCalBrah]

Man...I just smoked a joint of some sour d tonight with my brother after strictly dabbing extracts for 6 months and I'm high af...it's a diff kind of high...i will never get tired of good flower. I def recommended switching up your methods of getting medicated from time to time....Combusting, vaping, edibles, dabbing...mix it up, its more fun that way.

 

[Silver420Surfer]

FUCK COMBUSTION.

Inhale some carbon dioxide with your concentrates too get that dirty, smoking-high!!

 

[herbivore21]

There's nothing wrong with concentrates every once in a while, but I'd be upset if that's all there was available. There's something about flowers that just can't be matched by extracts, imo. Most likely the assortment of various cannabinoids/terpenes found in flowers, that aren't included in most concentrates. I feel like vaporizing some high quality buds through a nice glass water piece is like the equivalent of drinking fine wine, whereas dabbing is like slamming shots of high proof stuff to get wasted as quickly as possible. They each have their place. I just prefer flowers most of the time.

Man I'm dabbing rosin squished out of my own freshly made bubble from some particularly terpy material and some 5 star full melt of the same bubble and I can tell you, concentrates can deliver every bit as much as flowers on the flavor front.

Although of course that doesn't mean they necessarily will, and I daresay most of the concentrates for sale out there don't... There's terrible extracts for sale out there in droves.

Still, to me the most refined flavor experiences with herb that I could relate to fine wine or something like that are ones I've had have always been using extracts, especially solventless extracts. That being said, I just dabbed some fresh frozen winterized QWISO/QWET absolute shatter from the same strain that can go pound for pound in the flavor stakes with the full melt!

Sometimes, conditions conspire and you just get serendipitously splendid medicine in particular runs. I also try to aim to use methodology and tools that make these results more regular and with the recent dabbling in solventless teks - concentrates are now consistently so much tastier than the original flowers!

I understand people have sentimental reasons to use flowers and that some people's only frame of reference for concentrates is less than ideal material that really couldn't be argued to be better than the flowers.

Hell, every now and then I'll fire up the d-nail flower adapter with some flowers left aside from a run for a relaxing saturday afternoon but when I need the best flavor and the smoothest hits (not to mention lasting medical benefits - or in the case of insomnia, any benefit at all - and a more tolerable effect in my busy day to day life): my lot is firmly behind extracts!

Here's some incredible solventless Cluster Bomb bubble/rosin shatter that is a perfect example of the shatter tasting better than the original material

I'd be upset if concentrates were all that was available too - because for the most part, I only trust ME to make what I dab lol

 

[woolspinner]

I think, for me, I prefer flowers for a couple of reasons:

1. Everyone I know who vapes (or, shhhh, smokes) concentrates had their tolerance launch into high orbit. My tolerance already shot up once I started vaping (yes, yes, I know I should try a t-break, but I don't wanna!) so I do not want even higher tolerance.

2. Choice. There are simply more options, yes, even in Colorado, with flower. I like to sample different strains and experiment a bit.

3. Price. Base price of concentrates is pretty high (recreationally) and I have a hard time choking that down. Especially when factoring item no. 2.

4. H&S. Yes, health & safety. I often do not know what pesticides have been used (though I am trying to go organic) on my bud, but I definitely do not want to put the pesticides AND whatever solvent has been used into my lungs.

#4 is probably ignorance. I have no idea if the pesticides survive the concentrate-making process or if any of the butane, etc remains...but in light of items 1-3, it simply is not worth it.

I have tried wax before and it gave me a great, potent head high. But I am happy with flower. Maybe if I learn to make my own I will feel differently.

 

[syrupy]

I just feel it's too easy to overdo things with concentrates. Then again, I prefer beer to tequila.

 

[srama21]

I just feel it's too easy to overdo things with concentrates. Then again, I prefer beer to tequila.

This is actually my problem with concentrates. I tend to overdo it. I get to a point where my consumption becomes too costly. I end up having to take a week before i can fully get nice and baked off flowers because off the crazy tolerance i get from concentrates. If i had more disposable income, this would be a different story.

 

[NorVape]

Dabbed out right now thinking, fuck I have no flowers.

I like choices and variety

But concentrates are so much more reliable to me, when it comes to always getting me to where i need to be.

 

[psychonaut]

Ok I'm a flip flopper. I do miss the flower terpenes when I'm using shatter for days. King Kush reminded me kindly as I nearly choked on the vapor it was so rich.

 

[srama21]

i agree. i think flower vapor has a body to it that concentrate vapor doesn't. It makes a world of difference to me. I am also only 3 months removed from combustion, so I still vapor thick vapor.

 

[A1FBG]

as much as i love super fat dabs. it just isn't smart for tolerance. eventually you won't being able to get a good high (unless you have a pussy tolerance). even with an unlimited supply. you would eventually "green out" after so many hits just like with weed

Lately I've been trying to use mainly flowers with a small topping of concentrates. Noticeable potency difference, but not too much to make me immune to THC

 

[beeswax]

I completely abandoned flowers awhile ago..I think the people who say your tolerance will reach a point of no return are talking out of their ass to be completely honest. I've been concentrate only now for nearly a year, yet on those rare occasions where I socially smoke or use flower, I still can get sky high. I consume a half gram of shatter a day, too.

Anyways, no flower for me outside of very rare occasions. Concentrates are just way better for me.

 

[A1FBG]

@beeswax You really have no place to be calling out other members stating their info is "out of their ass" like come on now .. how can you talk for niggas you dont even know ?

Considering a lot of this is personal preference/body reaction. You even stated "concentrates are just way better for ME"

Funny you think "nearly a year" is enough time to be judging like that

i even personally prefer dabs. but did experience a tolerance issue at 1 point because of them (definitely was dabbing more than .5 gram/day tho.........)


Anyways, im pretty sure its been determined switching things up is best for tolerance. Type of smoke, method of smoking, and even the environment plays a part. So just do what works for you..

 

[beeswax]

I am not claiming to know what works better for anyone, I am just pointing out how ridiculous it is to think if you only use concentrates you can't get high anymore.

 

[srama21]

I am not claiming to know what works better for anyone, I am just pointing out how ridiculous it is to think if you only use concentrates you can't get high anymore.

I don't think its a ridiculous idea, I just think you've misconstrued it. The (very real) fear is that you will not get a good high off the same amount of concentrate that normally takes to get you to where you need to be. I've had this happen to me a few times. It took me about a week before flowers would get me where i like to be.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Man I'm dabbing rosin squished out of my own freshly made bubble from some particularly terpy material and some 5 star full melt of the same bubble and I can tell you, concentrates can deliver every bit as much as flowers on the flavor front.

Although of course that doesn't mean they necessarily will, and I daresay most of the concentrates for sale out there don't... There's terrible extracts for sale out there in droves.

Still, to me the most refined flavor experiences with herb that I could relate to fine wine or something like that are ones I've had have always been using extracts, especially solventless extracts. That being said, I just dabbed some fresh frozen winterized QWISO/QWET absolute shatter from the same strain that can go pound for pound in the flavor stakes with the full melt!

Sometimes, conditions conspire and you just get serendipitously splendid medicine in particular runs. I also try to aim to use methodology and tools that make these results more regular and with the recent dabbling in solventless teks - concentrates are now consistently so much tastier than the original flowers!

I understand people have sentimental reasons to use flowers and that some people's only frame of reference for concentrates is less than ideal material that really couldn't be argued to be better than the flowers.

Hell, every now and then I'll fire up the d-nail flower adapter with some flowers left aside from a run for a relaxing saturday afternoon but when I need the best flavor and the smoothest hits (not to mention lasting medical benefits - or in the case of insomnia, any benefit at all - and a more tolerable effect in my busy day to day life): my lot is firmly behind extracts!

Here's some incredible solventless Cluster Bomb bubble/rosin shatter that is a perfect example of the shatter tasting better than the original material

I'd be upset if concentrates were all that was available too - because for the most part, I only trust ME to make what I dab lol

I don't doubt that some concentrates taste amazing. What I don't believe, is that they have every chemical that makes up the flavor profile of vaped bud, tho, and even if they do, the ratios are most likely much different. So, yes, extracts can taste/feel great, but they still taste/feel different.

Take kief for instance. It's a good middle ground between bud and concentrates, since it is still not an extract, but if you have a fine screen, it contains very little plant matter, and is mostly trichome heads. Pure kief bowls make ridiculously dense clouds, and they taste very nice as well... but it isn't the same as bud. You can taste something similar to some pen style vape cartridges, which is possibly the higher concentration of THC (since that's what makes up most of the pen style vape mixtures). This flavor isn't as noticeable when using ground bud, and the ratios in kief aren't as skewed as they are in extracts.

Also:

1. I enjoy vaporizing, not just getting high. So I like the longer sessions you can have with flowers, as opposed to taking a few dabs and being absolutely ripped.

2. I do feel like concentrates can quickly make your tolerance skyrocket. Even just kief is enough to make regular bud hits feel "lighter".



Like I said before, I feel like concentrations have their place, but if that's all there was available, I would miss the well balanced, full spectrum of flavors/effects you get from using buds instead.



BTW, that shatter looks great.

 

[herbivore21]

I think, for me, I prefer flowers for a couple of reasons:

1. Everyone I know who vapes (or, shhhh, smokes) concentrates had their tolerance launch into high orbit. My tolerance already shot up once I started vaping (yes, yes, I know I should try a t-break, but I don't wanna!) so I do not want even higher tolerance.

2. Choice. There are simply more options, yes, even in Colorado, with flower. I like to sample different strains and experiment a bit.

3. Price. Base price of concentrates is pretty high (recreationally) and I have a hard time choking that down. Especially when factoring item no. 2.

4. H&S. Yes, health & safety. I often do not know what pesticides have been used (though I am trying to go organic) on my bud, but I definitely do not want to put the pesticides AND whatever solvent has been used into my lungs.

#4 is probably ignorance. I have no idea if the pesticides survive the concentrate-making process or if any of the butane, etc remains...but in light of items 1-3, it simply is not worth it.

I have tried wax before and it gave me a great, potent head high. But I am happy with flower. Maybe if I learn to make my own I will feel differently.

I'll respond to this one point by point (thanks for breaking down your post like this too my friend, makes responding much easier )

1. Bro I came into vaporizing smoking 35 joints a day. When you smoke a zip a week, your tolerance is already in high orbit. My tolerance didn't get higher with concentrates, but I sure as hell stopped consuming STUPID amounts of vapor and the thermal degradation byproducts of all of the inactives in all those flowers lol.

Everyone's case with tolerance is different of course, but lately my tolerance is super low. I only have 5 or 6 dabs a day at the most (including non-THC containing CBD dabs) lately, mostly because I am working 7 days a week on my research. If I had to commit the time it takes to vaping flowers to get the same effects, I'd have to give up my career atm! lol

2. But dude, due to all the different kinds of extracts you can make with any given flowers, it is on the face of it simply untrue to suggest that there is more choice of flowers universally. I do appreciate that you do not make concentrates yourself though, so take your point that you may have more options with flowers where you are

3. This is a localized concern. Consuming concentrates has saved me a small fortune actually lol Of course, this is because I make my own extracts using various different teks (there are fewer and fewer teks that I don't know how to use as the days go by) and know how to get all of the good stuff out of the material. Before concentrates, so much of the actives in the buds I was vaping were going to waste.

4. I can really appreciate where you are coming from here. Like I said above, I don't trust most of the concentrates out there. So many dispensary concentrates look like stuff I would never, ever touch - even for free! Pesticides are a potentially legitimate concern in any mmj product. Mold as well (mind you one can remove mold from material with some well executed bubble extraction).

Residual solvent looks pretty common in a lot of dispensary material and I think your concerns here are valid for solvent extracts (not universally of course, but in your situation without spending a fortune for the primo concentrates which still really have no guarantees of residuals not being there).

Remember though, we live in the age of solventless tek! I encourage you to check out rosin/full melt bubble/dry sift. Can you get kief or hashes cheaply? If so, get a bunch of these and squish them with a hair straightener

This is actually my problem with concentrates. I tend to overdo it. I get to a point where my consumption becomes too costly. I end up having to take a week before i can fully get nice and baked off flowers because off the crazy tolerance i get from concentrates. If i had more disposable income, this would be a different story.

This seems to be an economic concern. These aren't universally applicable as I mention above. However I do agree that in many places, concentrates can be pretty pricey and if you tend to get a bit dab-happy, it could conceivably get expensive

Dabbed out right now thinking, fuck I have no flowers.

I like choices and variety

But concentrates are so much more reliable to me, when it comes to always getting me to where i need to be.

hahaha man my flowers just sit around while I consume extracts, if only we were neighbors lol!

I find the same, and you seem to have a busy lifestyle like I do, I think this may be a big part of the appeal of concentrates for us. Less time stuck to the bong, more time getting shit done, without sacrificing how lifted we wanna be.

Ok I'm a flip flopper. I do miss the flower terpenes when I'm using shatter for days. King Kush reminded me kindly as I nearly choked on the vapor it was so rich.

This consideration of missing terps is more a concern related to extraction technique/methodology. I have learned that you can absolutely have your cake and eat it too in terms of flower terps in extracts now, however I concede that almost everything available doesn't provide this

i agree. i think flower vapor has a body to it that concentrate vapor doesn't. It makes a world of difference to me. I am also only 3 months removed from combustion, so I still vapor thick vapor.

This situation seems to relate to the above consideration, and perhaps thermal degradation byproducts of plant material that you inhale when vaping flowers. I am glad to do without the effects of the plant material byproducts in my vapor, I find them to give an unwanted foggy effect compared to my extracts (these days all of them taste better than the flowers they came from)!

as much as i love super fat dabs. it just isn't smart for tolerance. eventually you won't being able to get a good high (unless you have a pussy tolerance). even with an unlimited supply. you would eventually "green out" after so many hits just like with weed

Lately I've been trying to use mainly flowers with a small topping of concentrates. Noticeable potency difference, but not too much to make me immune to THC

I can see how this can work well for you for sure, used to do this all the time myself before I discovered that hashes can provide the 'body' of flowers without the redundant inactive material.

I completely abandoned flowers awhile ago..I think the people who say your tolerance will reach a point of no return are talking out of their ass to be completely honest. I've been concentrate only now for nearly a year, yet on those rare occasions where I socially smoke or use flower, I still can get sky high. I consume a half gram of shatter a day, too.

Anyways, no flower for me outside of very rare occasions. Concentrates are just way better for me.

Whilst I would encourage us all not to cast aspersions as to which orifice our fellow FC members here are talking out of, I have to agree with this. I still get high from flowers for sure, every time I have them! Just not as much as concentrates obviously

@beeswax You really have no place to be calling out other members stating their info is "out of their ass" like come on now .. how can you talk for niggas you dont even know ?

Considering a lot of this is personal preference/body reaction. You even stated "concentrates are just way better for ME"

Funny you think "nearly a year" is enough time to be judging like that

i even personally prefer dabs. but did experience a tolerance issue at 1 point because of them (definitely was dabbing more than .5 gram/day tho.........)


Anyways, im pretty sure its been determined switching things up is best for tolerance. Type of smoke, method of smoking, and even the environment plays a part. So just do what works for you..

This is a fair caveat to add to what I said above, if you go crazy dabbing .5g-1g a day or more, you will definitely have problems with your tolerance going too high, just like I did when I smoked or vaped an 8th to a quarter of bud a day

I am not claiming to know what works better for anyone, I am just pointing out how ridiculous it is to think if you only use concentrates you can't get high anymore.

I don't think its a ridiculous idea, I just think you've misconstrued it. The (very real) fear is that you will not get a good high off the same amount of concentrate that normally takes to get you to where you need to be. I've had this happen to me a few times. It took me about a week before flowers would get me where i like to be.

I get what you are saying here, but it is not necessarily true. I do not have tolerance problems at all these days and haven't for many, many months.

Making my own medicine I could certainly dab as much as I like each day if I wanted to. However I do not. How your tolerance gets effected has as much to do with self-control as it does to do with the content of what you consume.

 

[herbivore21]

I don't doubt that some concentrates taste amazing. What I don't believe, is that they have every chemical that makes up the flavor profile of vaped bud, tho, and even if they do, the ratios are most likely much different. So, yes, extracts can taste/feel great, but they still taste/feel different.

Take kief for instance. It's a good middle ground between bud and concentrates, since it is still not an extract, but if you have a fine screen, it contains very little plant matter, and is mostly trichome heads. Pure kief bowls make ridiculously dense clouds, and they taste very nice as well... but it isn't the same as bud. You can taste something similar to some pen style vape cartridges, which is possibly the higher concentration of THC (since that's what makes up most of the pen style vape mixtures). This flavor isn't as noticeable when using ground bud, and the ratios in kief aren't as skewed as they are in extracts.

Also:

1. I enjoy vaporizing, not just getting high. So I like the longer sessions you can have with flowers, as opposed to taking a few dabs and being absolutely ripped.

2. I do feel like concentrates can quickly make your tolerance skyrocket. Even just kief is enough to make regular bud hits feel "lighter".



Like I said before, I feel like concentrations have their place, but if that's all there was available, I would miss the well balanced, full spectrum of flavors/effects you get from using buds instead.



BTW, that shatter looks great.

Thanks for the kind words brother! Wish you could try a dab to see what I mean when I say that you don't have to be missing out with concentrates (although I do concede that if you are buying yours from dispensaries and not some baller with wads of 100 dollar bills in your pocket that you are not likely to get this level of concentrates - the high end of concentrates sure can get high priced in some jurisdictions!).

Kief is an extract by the way man, strictly speaking. It is just a cruder extract like a 1 star hash as opposed to a 6 star full melt or an absolute shatter. I do love kief though, I do filter some off and do a bowl in my D-nail flower adapter reasonably often (the irony of using my flower adapter almost never for flowers lol), I wanna get into making high quality dry sifts because this seems to me the no-brainer way of keeping all those terps. However, some strains I have worked with taste better when extracted with hydrocarbons or bubble than if sifted. A lot of this will come to personal preference of course

I thoroughly tested my position on this today and I vastly prefer flowers to concentrates of about any type. I like the high I get from flowers much more than concentrates. In my opinion it is a softer, easier going, more well rounded high. The high I get from concentrates is more frenetic. The highs that I enjoy most are a bit more soothing than what I get from concentrates.

This is why I use rosin from 1.5-2 year cured bubble hash for my night-time meds, I find that the CBN and retained waxes etc provide a better sleepy effect for my purposes

These effects and especially the effects of flowers are anathema to my busy daytime schedule though, for daytime meds I need the clarity and energy of dewaxed absolutes, with a little CBD to take any anxiety out of the mix

Still, we all have different needs and many of us can't make concentrates, so I understand why when one seeks the sleepier effects, they may opt for flowers or kief instead

Apologies for double post guys, hit the character limit lol

 

[NorVape]

I find the same, and you seem to have a busy lifestyle like I do, I think this may be a big part of the appeal of concentrates for us. Less time stuck to the bong, more time getting shit done, without sacrificing how lifted we wanna be.

This is my main reason for doing dabs, not vape sesssions.

 

[howie105]

The joy of the plant is that it is so adaptable when it comes to consumption. I like cheap and easy so bud conforms to my pattern of use. Not that I don't enjoy other concentrates its just that in my area they are just too pricey and doing processing beyond bubble just isn't worth the effort. I guess its like lots of things in this world we like what we are comfortable with. Enjoy