Retiring flowers

[4tokin]

I prefer the flower as I feel it is more varied and rounded.
Concentrates still have their place though.

 

[djonkoman]

both, but lately more flowers, although a few weeks ago I started vaping more hash again. depends a bit on what I feel like, ideally I have both available, and I vape the hash during the day then switch to flowers later at night.

although again the distinction what I know as hash vs. when americans talk about concentrates comes up, I've never tried BHO/oil, when I talk about hash it's mostly about import hash. I've also had ice-hash a few times, but it's not widely available here, and if it's available it's way too expensive, while import hash is about the same price per gram as weed.

 

[Bravesst]

I have no access to concentrates other than legal CBD's (Omega) without THC.

 

[jojo monkey]

I like flowers.

I think that flowers offer all of the terpenes, while things can get lost in an extraction. Extractions can also concentrate things you don't want like pesticides.

http://steephilllab.com/resources/cannabinoid-and-terpenoid-reference-guide/

If you make your own concentrates and grow your own that is one thing, but even the "medical" concentrates in OR are sketchy. I can't imagine what is on the black market.

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana-legalization/pesticides/

There is also the idea that the flowers at the top of the plant have different terpenes than the lower flowers (bug resistant terpenes at the top, deer resistant at the bottom). When you concentrate the whole plant it is not the same as vaping a top flower.

"A ‘phytochemical polymorphism’ seems operative in the plant (Franz and Novak, 2010), as production favours agents such as limonene and pinene in flowers that are repellent to insects (Nerio et al., 2010), while lower fan leaves express higher concentrations of bitter sesquiterpenoids that act as anti-feedants for grazing animals (Potter, 2009). Evolutionarily, terpenoids seem to occur in complex and variable mixtures with marked structural diversity to serve various ecological roles."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3165946/

I do see a future where terpenes are added to concentrates to shape the effect.

http://www.medicaljane.com/2013/10/30/terpene-isolation-could-be-the-future-of-cannabis/


To each their own! I like that we have so many choices! Hopefully the future will offer even more!

 

[His_Highness]

All I can get my greedy little hands on are flowers.

 

[herbivore21]

I like flowers.

I think that flowers offer all of the terpenes, while things can get lost in an extraction. Extractions can also concentrate things you don't want like pesticides.

http://steephilllab.com/resources/cannabinoid-and-terpenoid-reference-guide/

If you make your own concentrates and grow your own that is one thing, but even the "medical" concentrates in OR are sketchy. I can't imagine what is on the black market.

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana-legalization/pesticides/

There is also the idea that the flowers at the top of the plant have different terpenes than the lower flowers (bug resistant terpenes at the top, deer resistant at the bottom). When you concentrate the whole plant it is not the same as vaping a top flower.

"A ‘phytochemical polymorphism’ seems operative in the plant (Franz and Novak, 2010), as production favours agents such as limonene and pinene in flowers that are repellent to insects (Nerio et al., 2010), while lower fan leaves express higher concentrations of bitter sesquiterpenoids that act as anti-feedants for grazing animals (Potter, 2009). Evolutionarily, terpenoids seem to occur in complex and variable mixtures with marked structural diversity to serve various ecological roles."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3165946/

I do see a future where terpenes are added to concentrates to shape the effect.

http://www.medicaljane.com/2013/10/30/terpene-isolation-could-be-the-future-of-cannabis/


To each their own! I like that we have so many choices! Hopefully the future will offer even more!

Terpenes can get lost in an extraction with poor methodology but it need not be the case. I have made many extracts which taste nicer than the original flowers. To me, this is the test of a well made concentrate.

Remember it'll help to qualify your comments by saying that you are talking about dispensary product (many don't live in places where there are dispensaries, make our own concentrates and some of us make extremely high quality ones at that!) - since this looks like a major factor in your experience of sub par concentrates.

Terpenes being added to concentrates is something I was talking about last year as being in the future, it is actually happening now in various places. I know xtractology in Cali add terps to some of their concentrates. Also Horatio Delbert in Canada. A few others here and there!

However, some terpenes are not safe to consume orally in larger concentrations, let alone heated and inhaled and I advise caution. D-limonene for example as well has a super low flash point (seriously, a hot day in the desert creates a risk of combustion lol) and is a significant risk for fire. Please do not bound head first into adding in terps guys.

Also terpenes don't need to be lost in concentration, in fact with live resin, terps can be preserved in a way that they just can't in buds (those volatile fresh plant terps - often the tastiest part - rapidly boil off of the flowers at room temp).

Remember too that extracts can be made from top colas only as well, although it is true that plants end up with different terps at different points of the plant Also predators of the plant vary vastly around the world, for example, ain't no deer around here to interfere with bud, except for any bud that is grown at the zoo lol - this variation in predators will lead to the presence of different terps in some phenotypes favoring survival in certain environments

I don't use stems or even leaf in my extractions to avoid pesticides and any left over nutrients/plant material etc. it is important to be conscious of the parts of the plant you are using and what you may be concentrating. I get organic grown flowers and know the conditions are safe and am very cautious of what material I use.

As I said much earlier though, extraction methodologies can bring potential problems into the mix, but they don't have to! It is possible for flowers to be a far better source of varied terpenes than concentrates, but it is certainly also possible to end up with concentrates which are far superior to the starting bud. It's what happens in between that counts - and I appreciate that what happens in-between often does lead to concentrates which are worse than the flower, especially for those buying their concentrates

 

[Joel W.]

I have about 2 grams of fresh rosin now and when I pop the top on the container for a few minutes, my wife says the house smells like weed.

Sadly, I can't say I have ever noticed that overpowering green bud smell with any of my purchased bho shatter, waxes or oils.

 

[herbivore21]

I have about 2 grams of fresh rosin now and when I pop the top on the container for a few minutes, my wife says the house smells like weed.

Sadly, I can't say I have ever noticed that overpowering green bud smell with any of my purchased bho shatter, waxes or oils.

I believe 100% that the majority of stuff on dispensary shelves is not gonna have the kind of terp content that would give you these wonderful smells with the right consistencies though.

Absolute shatter will never smell strongly like you describe though without being heated brother.

This is because it is solid (and therefore liable to stay denser overall, remember a thinner film of earl lends itself to quicker boiling of actives), stable and the terps aren't so liable to rapidly boil at room temp (the cause of that wonderful smell coming from your rosin, btw man I love smelling rosin )

Rosin is a wonderful way to retain terps for those who can't get excellent live resin shatters though (and even then, rosin from aged bubble hash especially is superior for sleep purposes)

Shame about the wax/fat you can potentially get relative to dewaxed concentrates but rosin is still great stuff - I heartily recommend it!

 

[NorVape]

Where I'm at hashish (traditional import hash) is in general cheaper pr gram, and the quality steadier than herb, so as some of you may know I've been a hash guy since I was a kid, and spent alot of time finding out how to vaporize hashish best. The Vapman was the solution.

So I used to vape a lot of hash, with some herb here and there. And every now and then I did QWISO or QWET washes with bud, and every time I made shatter. Yes, even the first time. So I agree with @herbivore21 here, one can definitively make concentrates that are way better than their starting point.

And then rosin came. I jumped on it really early, and when I figured out how to press the high grade import hashish I was vaping I all of a sudden ended up dabbing a lot.

And that's how it is for me today. Mostly rosin dabs, and some pen hits when out and about, and every now and then some hashish or herb in my other vapes.

Oh, and edibles for t3h win also

 

[mtnbike420]

I recently lost my wax connect I'm back on flower only for now. Living in a non-med state sucks.

 

[tennstrong]

Rotation is key my friend. just buy dabs for a while, then when youre fiendin more dabs just willpower it to switch to vaping for one session and you get convinced again. Rinse and repeat for cost effectiveness.

Edit: IDK if it matters but my Dispensary charges 40$/oz of medium shake which is nice for chain vaping heavy when u are used to dabs.

 

[OregonStoner]

I have switched to consuming Concentrates, almost exclusively. A few reasons..

• Concentrates always get me high. Flowers are "hit and miss" to me.
• Concentrates always get me higher, for a longer period of time. I can stay high for about an hour on Concentrates. With Flowers, I am lucky to stay loaded for a half an hour.
• Concentrates are in my opinion, healthier to consume.
• The smell of consumed Concentrates is much more pleasant than flowers. Flowers smell rank to me and Concentrates are more like a pleasant incense smell.
• Portable Concentrate Pens are much cheaper than portable Flower Vaporizers.

I still will load up a bowl of flowers in my Pax or Hammer from time to time. But since I got my first oil rig and Ti nail, my flower vapes sit a lot more than in years past.

 

[tennstrong]

I have switched to consuming Concentrates, almost exclusively. A few reasons..

• Concentrates are in my opinion, healthier to consume.
• .

I know this isnt your full quote, but concentrate bho usage has debatable health risk that even I admit and I dab pretty heavily. Vaping is much healthier than dabbing, but dabs will get you higher unless you begin mixing bubble hash with vaping which is imo one of the safest methods of consumption in that high level of thc. Fair enough tell is the people who say they are feeling lung constriction or hard times breathing after dabbing for months on end, you just think about a reclaimed bong and imagine that there is some residue in your lungs after your hit imo. Know your suppliers! Don't buy dabs in non-legal states that you aren't sure of! There are health risks people, when I used to do bho runs I definitely had a couple runs where it was shite qual shatter, but I definitely knew my purging process wasn't clean enough. This is hugely important for your safety- I just threw out slabs that didnt fully purge and could pose a health hazard. Many people, however, I bet are not as careful as I was and are just trying to make that extra $$ quicker by doing a worse purge, the most important process of the whole thing. (I frequent dispensaries now/know BHO comps)

Since you reside in oregon it is obvious you have to have no health concerns due to the legality and wide array of labels on errl stating their purge times or asking the staff. I just thought this would be helpful for the people getting their BHO in non-legal scenarios where there is a health risk.

 

[Nugg]

I blast 4g of bud a fortnight and strech that oil out. I get between .3g and .6g depending on starting material. I vape around 2 - 3 grams a week

Sometimes I have a dab after work because it maximizes my time with the family. Then vape flowers after my daughter is in bed.

Sometimes the girls aren't home yet when I get home so I have time to vape some flowers.

I try to dab less during the week and save the oil for weekend fun time.

I find that dabbing gives me a clearer more uplifting high and the vaping weighs me down more. Waking up after a night of dabbing is easier than a night of vaping for me.

If I could walking into a dispensary and buy top shelf oils I would dab a lot more.

 

[Chandlerson]

Agree'd!

I think these things just effect different people in different ways. I wish oil was easier on my lungs, frankly.

I agree with you ...sometimes at least. Like the other guy said sometimes I feel like herb is harder on me.

 

[NorVape]

Yeah, dabbing feels more energertic to me.

 

[Detonator]

I always loved flowers started very young.... they called us stoners,, lol and Yes cannabis / flowers is good

but I can still remember the first time I had hash,,,, and being the stoner I was it was Great, but this was from Morroco or somewhere and we hardly ever got any more for years.. not that good anyway...

then Dabs came along.... and OMG it reminds me of that first hash all over again..

ok so I got a high tollenance,,, but here is my question...

I can really vape up a lot of flowers,,,, I usually use mid shelf 35$ 1/8 and I can go through it quick...

When I Dab I like good quality but I don't like to spend 50$ a G I like the quality that I see lately at 20-35$ a gram for good wax and shatter sometime but I think sometime just cause it is a clear concentrate that is like shatter don't mean nothing,,, the wax might be better...

My chick ask me why I dab so much , but to me I'm saving money...

OK the question,,, fuck I'm stoned ... fuck? what was the question,,, something about price points and economics... meh ok I'll shut up ... back to dabbing some good tangie wax this morning

 

[SUIGENER1S]

Hi All, I'm new here first post. I have to say I started vaping July 2014 and have not looked back. I recently have been getting extra cartridges for friends and ran out of oil so I grabbed some flower. I have to say I felt dirty! My mouth was dry my fingers smelled and I had this feeling of dirtiness. So I now prefer strictly vaping, forgive me if I am not using the correct term but its a oil in an atomizer with 750mg thc 50mg cbd.

 

[Poostuff]

They're two very different things, it's almost like comparing whole foods & vitamins, Ok sorry for that.
I remember the Afghan hash that used to be around like 30 years ago would blow our minds (mix one gram with one cigarette) but it was a body high & it was always nice to go back to local bud when it ran out.
Love my flower, even strong edibles don't work as well unless I have a little vape of flower.
I've had limited experience & enjoy concentrates I find the buzz strong
& heady but kinda missing something, plus dabbing looks so fucking druggy.
I sometimes wonder what Bob Marley would think?

 

[Silver420Surfer]

Concentrates and edibles only here. I love the smell/taste so much more than flowers, I don't know what I'd do if I had to switch back. Probably more edibles.


@herbivore21 -- Agree to disagree regarding shatter and strong terp smell. Maybe if they're doing it wrong, which MANY companies are, but quality companies are out there and doing a great job. I know of quite a few in both California and Colorado, that my senses can vouch for, that are doing it very right.

Quick blurb from one of the companies that I have posted in the "share that dab..."thread:
"XYZ Company is an extracted and bonded cannabis oil that does not retain the harsh qualities of plant materials and waxes. Our extraction method concentrates and retains the full terpene profile of the extracted plant, so when you vaporize XYZ Company shatter, you get the full flavor experience and full medicinal effects that the original cannabis plant offers." XYZ is not their real name btw.

 

[herbivore21]

Concentrates and edibles only here. I love the smell/taste so much more than flowers, I don't know what I'd do if I had to switch back. Probably more edibles.


@herbivore21 -- Agree to disagree regarding shatter and strong terp smell. Maybe if they're doing it wrong, which MANY companies are, but quality companies are out there and doing a great job. I know of quite a few in both California and Colorado, that my senses can vouch for, that are doing it very right.

Quick blurb from one of the companies that I have posted in the "share that dab..."thread:
"XYZ Company is an extracted and bonded cannabis oil that does not retain the harsh qualities of plant materials and waxes. Our extraction method concentrates and retains the full terpene profile of the extracted plant, so when you vaporize XYZ Company shatter, you get the full flavor experience and full medicinal effects that the original cannabis plant offers." XYZ is not their real name btw.

Lol man the extractor I'm referring to in this context is me But no need to agree to disagree, it is likely we have different experiences because we have experienced very different material to one another

My usual medicine is usually a fresh frozen absolute shatter bursting with terps. However this shatter has no smell if you were to hold a slab right up to your nose at room temp - stick that on top of a 100f surface (like a warm plate) and you'd smell some heavenly live plant scents making you swear there was a grow nearby!

I should qualify that I mean the kind of shatter where you can't squash a chunk flat even with warm hands because it is so rigid. This is the usual consistency of absolute I get using my tek (although I am aware that the term shatter is used to describe a broader subset of consistencies than this ). Other consistencies that I would still regard as shatter (still shatters/snaps but is not quite an absolute IME) can definitely smell magnificent without that slight heat!

I can't rule out that the idiosyncrasies of the strains I have used or my tek may have unintentionally led to some novel property that keeps the smell in until there is sufficient heat applied now that I think of it! Interesting!

 

[zor]

I've only been using waxes and such since Jan of this year. I enjoy having exclusive sessions of one or the other to best appreciate a certain variety. As much as I enjoy the concept behind concentrates I don't think I could ever abandon flowers completely, there's a very unique aspect to the plant that I just love, perhaps because it's biological in nature.

One thing I definitely prefer flowers over oil is the considerably less precipitate that condenses during use; this is particularly observable when I use a bubbler attachment with the SSV oil kit....makes me wonder what kind of crap is aggregating in my body.

 

[NorVape]

It just struck me, I grew up on concentrates (imported hashish), so this might explain why I felt at home when I found the modern concentrates scene.

I remember me and a friend, approx ten years ago, talked about how hard it was to carry, conceal, eye measure or handle this new weed thing compared to good old hashish. And the smell!

Haha, it seems like we lived in another world canna wise back then.

 

[Farid]

When I was living at school I stuck with only concentrates because I wanted to keep the smell to a minimum. But when I'm living at home I prefer flowers for several reasons. Mostly I find the shatteryness/stickiness/messyness of hash to be a pain. It's more convenient than flowers when things work, but I curse it when my coil gets old and I need to clean it or replace it. Using flowers in my air is a lot easier since I rarely have to clean it.

I kinda stopped buying oil when I was putting it on cotton to vape in my air. I realized it was the same as flowers, just with better clouds, and a lesser flavor. Oil definitely has it's place - specifically when I'm in a place I need to hide my use, but right now I've been using flowers. I could definitely see that changing with a change in my living situation.

 

[herbivore21]

I've only been using waxes and such since Jan of this year. I enjoy having exclusive sessions of one or the other to best appreciate a certain variety. As much as I enjoy the concept behind concentrates I don't think I could ever abandon flowers completely, there's a very unique aspect to the plant that I just love, perhaps because it's biological in nature.

One thing I definitely prefer flowers over oil is the considerably less precipitate that condenses during use; this is particularly observable when I use a bubbler attachment with the SSV oil kit....makes me wonder what kind of crap is aggregating in my body.

I love flowers and still have a great appreciation for flowers much like anyone else. I guess what has changed for me is that before, when I saw beautiful flowers I wanted to grind them up and vape them. Now, I see beautiful flowers and wanna run them and dab them

Lately, as many on the bleeding edge of extraction teks are doing; I have been focusing my efforts on reversing the skewed terp/cannabinoid profiles that occurs in extracts due to the idiosyncrasies of the extraction method (ie: the increased presence of polar soluble terps in hydrocarbon extracts vs solventless extracts).

My approach to concentrates is to capture only the active components that have made flowers so beneficial for our species since before recorded history, leaving out inactive plant materials. My personal intention with extraction is not to change the effects of the flowers, except insofar as it removes the effects caused by the thermal degradation of the inactive plant materials in flowers. I do know that others may have very different intentions and of course, horses for courses and all that!

Which brings me to your last point: Increased build up of oils inside your glass is not necessarily a property of the oil itself, but rather the temperature it was boiled at and the pressure/airflow properties of the setup being used. I get very, very little reclaim buildup when using the SiC dish on my dab rig, but before when I used the Infiniti with Sapphire (which was delicious, but really did not provide quick/full enough vaporization) the reclaim buildup on the glass was COLOSSAL!

Besides, on the face of it, when vaping flowers we are boiling and inhaling much more than just the actives we were seeking to boil and inhale. I'd be much more worried about what's lining your airways after heating and inhaling all that inactive material in unrefined buds than concentrates, so long as the concentrates are of sufficient quality. I make my own extracts and these are extremely clean, high quality extracts.

I can tell you that the flowers that my concentrates came from (which are great quality btw) are unequivocally harsher to heat and inhale, even though I vape these flowers hundreds of degrees cooler than I would convection dab! This is because when when vaping flowers, we are simply heating and inhaling more different substances (especially harsh ones on the throat like plant waxes) than we are doing the same with a high quality dewaxed extract.

Concentrates are really still in their infancy IMO, I can't wait to see how we'll be medicating in the future! I really hope that before long, we'll all look back and laugh at the poorly regulated circus that is the state of MMJ where it is legal today. I am hoping that sensible regulation and proper standards surrounding safety and quality emerge as time goes on