Restrictive Draw & Throat/Lung Irritation

[HellsWindStaff]

Perusing this, I actually agree that vaping can dry you out. To what degree, I'm not entirely sure, but it certainly dries the back of my throat more then smoking does/did. Maybe not as long, and not with all vapes, but there is a definite dry tickle with my Firefly specifically. Also, just in general after vaping I am much more parched then when I used to smoke, I pound water constantly while vaping.

That, is also my dirtiest vape probably, bits of gunk on the lid. So that extra resistance, could be forcing the temp up, which could be imparting the dryness.

I also quit cigs and went to ecigs, so that could compound the dryness. Not sure the effects, but I have heard from others that they need a drink with the E-cig....I find it to be true as well.

I also started taking a medication that gives me cotton mouth, which certainly effects it, but I noticed this before I started taking the meds as well.

I would switch Dr's if one told me smoking would be better for my lungs then vaporizing. That seems, medically ignorant. Not doubting that's what he told you, but I seriously question why he would tell you that. I would feel he would say to forgo all cannabis smoking/vaporizing if you had lung problems, not substitute vaping with smoking....that just seems so weird typing it out lol.

"Hey, sounds like your lungs are really dried out, why don't you switch to smoking instead? Inhaling all that extra heat and chemicals will probably loosen em up a bit!"

 

[ButterMan]

Again....LINKS? You say you've seen "tons" of evidence. You make a claim that is antithetical to the evidence most of us have seen and experienced, yet you still haven't provided a shred of data to back that up.

You may be right....vaping may be worse than smoking for your lungs. (I seriously doubt this is correct, but my mind is open.) But to this community, that easily qualifies as an "extraordinary claim". And you know how this works....extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

But I'll settle for any evidence at all. You say you have "tons". So I'll ask you again....links?

I can't send you a link to books I've read or conversations I've had with people. Most of this information is new and finding it online is tough because you have to wade through all of the bullshit posts about how safe people think it is. Much of the hard data and research that exists is based on E-cigs so if I link to that data then all I will get is a bunch of sniveling fools saying that it's about ecigs and not vaping. But the reality is that Ecig vapor effects lung tissue negatively in the excact same way as vaping. By chronicly drying out the tissue - killing all beneficial bacteria and leaving the lungs weak and vulnerable to infection. Smoke will not kill the beneficial bacteria and will not dry out lung tissue the way vapor does. It's a personal preference for me so chill out. For me vaping has too many risks and the truth is people really don't know what will happen down the road from excessive vaping. I'm gonna stick with smoking- something that humans have been doing for thousands of years. This makes sense to me - but that doesn't mean it needs to make sense to you.

 

[CarolKing]

If a person is so concerned about their lungs probably no smoke or vaping. Just breathe in fresh clean air from a part of the country with less smog.

 

[max]

Noticed the other evening while vaping, and being too lazy to clean screens during that session, that the vapor was much more harsh than normal. (This was on a revape of material I low-temp vaped earlier that day, so session was higher temp and not using fresh herb.).

Thought I was imagining things, so I did a little experimenting and found that vaping the same material through a clean screen with far less restriction, that the harshness was barely noticeable. I used the same temperature and strains as my usual sessions. At least for me, the more restrictive the draw, the more harsh the vapor seemed.

Note, the draws were pulled from the diaphragm, not mouth draws that are breathed in after (like one would drag on a cigarette taking the draw into the mouth first, then inhaling). Mouth draws did not have this effect, so kind of concluding the negative pressure in lungs and windpipe during a deep draw/inhale contributed to the discomfort.

Maybe this will help someone who has trouble with the harshness of vapor... that by switching to a vaporizer with a less restrictive draw, they may gain a much more pleasant vaping experience.

Anyone else notice similar?

I find that vapor harshness comes with higher temps, not just restriction. There's another harshness though, and it could be what you're experiencing. You get it when you're pulling in a lot of air with a lung hit, rather than a mouth hit. I first experienced it with the old analog Arizer V-Tower (which turned into the Extreme later on). The vapor to air ratio was too low for me, and the excessive hot air wasn't appreciated. When I moved on to the SSV, which had a more restricted draw than the V-Tower, but considerably higher vapor to air ratio, the hits were richer (vapor dense) and much easier on the throat and lungs.

I'm gonna stick with smoking- something that humans have been doing for thousands of years. This makes sense to me - but that doesn't mean it needs to make sense to you.

Since my lungs couldn't tolerate smoke anymore on a regular basis (that was about 10 yrs. ago), and have no problem with vapor, I'll stick with vapor. And since you went off topic back on page one, making it into a vapor vs. smoke thread, there'll be no more mention of smoking here. It has nothing to do with the point of the thread.

 

[mitchgo61]

I can't send you a link to books I've read or conversations I've had with people..

But you could give us title and author of said books, yes? And "conversations you've had with people" isn't evidence. Not even close. So again, I'm all ears...I would love to read, or at least read reviews of, these books you claim contain this evidence.

I will get is a bunch of sniveling fools saying that it's about ecigs and not vaping. .

Seriously? So anyone who engages in skeptical questioning of your "evidence" is a "sniveling fool"? Really? In my town we call that "critical thinking". Must be something in the water here.

But the reality is that Ecig vapor effects lung tissue negatively in the excact same way as vaping. By chronicly drying out the tissue - killing all beneficial bacteria and leaving the lungs weak and vulnerable to infection. Smoke will not kill the beneficial bacteria and will not dry out lung tissue the way vapor does. .

Just saying "the reality is" doesn't make it REAL. (If it did, every republican on tv would be right, and we know that's not true. ) You keep repeating statements of conjecture as if they are facts..."chronically drying out lung tissue" hasn't been verified in any study I've seen yet. (That doesn't mean you are wrong, but since there's no clinical evidence of it that you can link to, you can continue to color me skeptical.) This idea that the activity that shall not be named in this thread preserves helpful bacteria but vaping kills them is simply conjecture on your part at best and wildly irresponsible, conceptually, at worst. No responsible doctor would ever suggest that. Maybe Dr John, or Dr Feelgood, but not a real medical doctor. (Not one I'd go back to, anyway.)

. It's a personal preference for me so chill out.

It's not a question of "chilling out" (I'm quite chill, thanks). You can make whatever personal preference decisions you like, obviously. But when you spread (potential) misinformation and claim you have "tons of evidence" to back it up, isn't it reasonable some of us would ask you for data to confirm your statements, at least in an attempt to garner a little erudition for ourselves?

 

[lwien]

I can't send you a link to books I've read or conversations I've had with people. Most of this information is new and finding it online is tough because you have to wade through all of the bullshit posts about how safe people think it is. Much of the hard data and research that exists is based on E-cigs so if I link to that data then all I will get is a bunch of sniveling fools saying that it's about ecigs and not vaping. But the reality is that Ecig vapor effects lung tissue negatively in the excact same way as vaping. By chronicly drying out the tissue - killing all beneficial bacteria and leaving the lungs weak and vulnerable to infection. Smoke will not kill the beneficial bacteria and will not dry out lung tissue the way vapor does. It's a personal preference for me so chill out. For me vaping has too many risks and the truth is people really don't know what will happen down the road from excessive vaping. I'm gonna stick with smoking- something that humans have been doing for thousands of years. This makes sense to me - but that doesn't mean it needs to make sense to you.

I've asked this three different times and I still have not gotten an answer.

Which vape were you using and at what temperature were you vaping at that caused your lung distress?

 

[ButterMan]

And since you went off topic back on page one, making it into a vapor vs. smoke thread, there'll be no more mention of smoking here. It has nothing to do with the point of the thread.

Ok Adolf- I'm outta here and won't be back then. Peace

 

[lwien]

Ok Adolf- I'm outta here and won't be back then. Peace

Looks like I'll never get an answer to my questions. Makes me wonder if ButterMan has ever even used a vaporizer before.

Adolf ?? If Max is Adolf than I'm the fucking Inquisitor from Hell.

 

[mitchgo61]

Looks like I'll never get an answer to my questions. Makes me wonder if ButterMan has ever even used a vaporizer before.

Well, that was a colossal waste of time. I'll never get those minutes back, and once again I failed to make myself smarter. Damn.

 

[max]

Ok Adolf- I'm outta here and won't be back then. Peace

Feel free to post on the OP's topic, but not yours. You basically hijacked the thread. Adolf and peace. Really? You do know that name calling is against the rules, don't you?

Makes me wonder if ButterMan has ever even used a vaporizer before.

According to his posting record, he owned at least 4 as of 6 months ago. And even smoking, he's still vaporizing. You can't smoke without getting vapor.

My only issues with vapor harshness come with high temps, above 400, and even then only when I'm getting a lot of hot air. I can crank up my EVO to a high temp, to finish a bowl, and as long as I'm using water filtration, no problem. A restricted draw actually helps to cool vapor IMO, since it limits how much hot air is getting through.

 

[lwien]

A restricted draw actually helps to cool vapor IMO, since it limits how much hot air is getting through.

A restricted draw can actually make the incoming air hotter, or at least, that has been my experience, especially when a restricted draw is due to a tightly packed "bowl".

 

[420engineer]

when the airway restricts on the SSV after a few bowls, or, of you pack a bowl too tightly, it will combust - the more freely the air can flow, the cooler the vaping will be.

 

[luchiano]

I'm old and in pain most of the time so vaping once a day would not cut it for me I must vape allot to alleviate pain and doing this - for me - is taking a toll on my old lungs by chronically drying them out. Im thinking of how dry my ABV is and how dry my lungs feel after a long day of vaping and what my doc is saying makes sense to me. So -for me- going back to smoking has worked to stop the lung infections and breathing problems at night. didn't mean to cause a ruckus just thought my situation pertained to what @DDave had mentioned. Cheers folks!

I do think too much vaporizing, when done a certain way, can be worse then smoking because you are introducing dry heat to your lungs with a lot of particulate matter. Whereas with smoking, a lot of the plant fibers are burned fast, so that means more will condense onto each other, and not get too deep into the lungs.

The thing is, smoking can be just as bad, so why your doctor wouldn't just teach you how to properly use a vaporizer,which will avoid the problems, and enhance others. Vaporizing has the potential to be light years ahead of smoking, you just have to know some essential things that isn't needed to smoke. Smoking requires to know two things, light fire, inhale. We off that nonsense, though!

vapour is mostly water, the dry lung myth is exactly that, a myth..

Its not a myth, read my explanation ^

 

[MinnBobber]

I do think too much vaporizing, when done a certain way, can be worse then smoking because you are introducing dry heat to your lungs with a lot of particulate matter. Whereas with smoking, a lot of the plant fibers are burned fast, so that means more will condense onto each other, and not get too deep into the lungs.

.............................................................................................

I respectfully, totally disagree.

What's in smoke, cannabis or tobacco?
- Particulate, particulate, particulate that makes it much denser than vapor. Any smoke has way more particulate. You often need a light to see vapor but smoke is much denser/ more particulate. About 100 known carcinogens are in smoke--by-products of any combustion. Compare a vapor bong innards to a smoking bong innards and there is no comparison, same with your lung innards
- Smoke is hot and dry. Burning mj has a temp of up to 2000 F. Vaping max of 450 F. Higher heat (smoking) dries out mj much more than lower heat (vaping). Smoke is hotter and drier.

I don't believe there is any way you can vaporize, "when done a certain way" that can possibly make it worse than smoking.
Smoke the same amount of herb vs vape it , and smoking will always be worse for your lungs.

F Combustion

 

[little maggie]

I'm old and in pain most of the time so vaping once a day would not cut it for me I must vape allot to alleviate pain and doing this - for me - is taking a toll on my old lungs by chronically drying them out. Im thinking of how dry my ABV is and how dry my lungs feel after a long day of vaping and what my doc is saying makes sense to me. So -for me- going back to smoking has worked to stop the lung infections and breathing problems at night. didn't mean to cause a ruckus just thought my situation pertained to what @DDave had mentioned. Cheers folks!

I understand you have confidence in your doctor. Along with others here I'm surprised that he didn't just tell you to stop smoking period. It seems like using a humidifier would be a preliminary step.

 

[luchiano]

.............................................................................................

I respectfully, totally disagree.

What's in smoke, cannabis or tobacco?
- Particulate, particulate, particulate that makes it much denser than vapor. Any smoke has way more particulate. You often need a light to see vapor but smoke is much denser/ more particulate. About 100 known carcinogens are in smoke--by-products of any combustion. Compare a vapor bong innards to a smoking bong innards and there is no comparison, same with your lung innards
- Smoke is hot and dry. Burning mj has a temp of up to 2000 F. Vaping max of 450 F. Higher heat (smoking) dries out mj much more than lower heat (vaping). Smoke is hotter and drier.

I don't believe there is any way you can vaporize, "when done a certain way" that can possibly make it worse than smoking.
Smoke the same amount of herb vs vape it , and smoking will always be worse for your lungs.

F Combustion

Its not necessarily the particulate matter that is causing the issues, its the size of the condensed oils, before they become viscous. I made a post with some science research links, a couple of years back in the sublimator thread that showed absorption or smoke based on micron size. It can be applied to vaping because the same principles apply. Its just certain things will cause the gas to expand more then others, and the more expansion, the more the oils knock into each other, and that causes condensation which makes the oils become larger in size. This is why bongs give way more clouds then say something as a joint, even though the same amount of product may be used.

If the gas is dry, it will absorb more moisture from the respiratory tract, and if you inhale long enough, being that a vaporizer will give vapor much thinner then smoke, some of the dry vapor will go deeper into the lungs, causing more irritation over time. I'm not saying smoking is better for you, just that it can't effect you as much as vaporizers when everything is equal. This shows you how powerful vaporizers are. I think because we tend to notice the powerful positive effects, we forget it can also be negatives when not used right. This is for everything that we use, knowledge is power, and lack of it can be dangerous because you can hurt yourself with something so subtle, and never realize it because you just don't know or can conceive it happening based on ignorance of how something works. All of this is allegedly happining(I need to say that for protection, Old members know what I mean)

Thanks for the reply, though. I love discussing this type of stuff.

 

[DOOM]

alcohol is a poison/toxin, that is why it is hard on your liver, TCH is almost non toxic to the point of irrelevance [you need to smoke 16lbs in 15 minutes to reach deadly toxic levels of THC] so there are no toxins/poisons to cause liver damage.

I plan on switching to edibles because I enjoy the long last feeling. My routine is to take a few vape bong rips and then make a ABV shake. I worry about the ABV being toxic to kidneys, pancreas, liver, etc...Research is limited.

I'm wondering if edibles made from pure organic bud would be easy on liver? I'm curious because I want to do this long term.

 

[Vitolo]

My doctor has....

I am surprised to hear that, but I guess everyone is entitled to express a personal opinion.
I think your Doctors statements were pertaining to the vaporization of EJuice in an e-cig.
Very likely you asked the doctor if vaping was better for your lungs than smoking and he understood your question to be pertaining to a hot topic of todays concern.
There are numerous studies that discuss the chemical harshness and effects of ecig on lung tissue.
If you google is vapor harsh on lung tissue, you will find only comments and entries connected to ecigs.
Try next googling is marijuana vapor harsh on lung tissue and you will find page's full of medical studies contradicting your doctor's personal opinion. (be sure to focus on the entries that are real studies, and not links to FC and other forum posts)
I left the above listed two searches as links for you to check out for your convenience.
Back on topic...

concluding the negative pressure in lungs and windpipe during a deep draw/inhale contributed to the discomfort.

I agree.
Negative pressure also in my experience gives a heavier medicating effect.
I think that during the negative pressure, all internal pores open more, and more inner tissue becomes exposed, exposing more area of receptors.