Restrictive Draw & Throat/Lung Irritation

[lwien]

The things that you eat, drink, breathe and take in through your skin all get filtered through your liver. ...

http://www.thebody.com/content/art45234.html

So you would put your liver to work regardless.

True, but I guess the question is, how MUCH work the liver has to do. We know that alcohol and non-steroidal drugs are very hard on the liver. I have no doubt that THC is not at those levels of toxicity, but I think the jury may still be out on how safe edibles really are, eh?

I haven't seen any studies to prove this one way or the other.

 

[DDave]

True, but I guess the question is, how MUCH work the liver has to do. We know that alcohol and non-steroidal drugs are very hard on the liver. I have no doubt that THC is not at those levels of toxicity, but I think the jury may still be out on how safe edibles really are, eh?

I haven't seen any studies to prove this one way or the other.

Absolutely agree that quantity plays a very significant part in toxicity. Ibuprofin is a great example of this in relation to liver impact. Take a couple, little if any impact.... take too much and you may end up with chronic vanishing bile duct syndrome ....

 

[jojo monkey]

The clogged screen in the original post could be increasing the temp, this could be why it is more harsh than a clean screen.

 

[ButterMan]

vapour is mostly water, the dry lung myth is exactly that, a myth..

Haha this response made me laugh- dude ever heard of steam? What does steam do? It burns -drying-

Just saying you might want to research it more. Vapor is hot and dry - the ideal environment for your lungs is cool and wet. Ever wonder why your throat gets sore after lots of vaping? The fact is Humans have been smoking for thousands of years but vaping is a new thing that we don't know much about- especially for long term use. We are all essentially lab rats and this test subject (me) is saying there is something about vaping that does not feel right to me or my body. Also the whole link between throat tissue degradation due to hot dry air from vaporizers and throat cancer seems plausible to me. If current studies show people who drink lots of hot beverages are more prone to throat cancer then how is scalding hot vapor any different? Plus there's the fact that the beneficial bacteria that live in your lungs can survive in smoke but these beneficial bacteria are killed instantly by the harsh drying vapor from a vaporizer.

 

[420engineer]

a steam burn isn't caused by drying, it's caused by excess heat. burning does not equal drying.

vapour is hot and damp, otherwise, there would be no vapour..

the dry cough effect from vaporising is due to TCH being an expectorant, nothing to do with humidity levels..

True, but I guess the question is, how MUCH work the liver has to do. We know that alcohol and non-steroidal drugs are very hard on the liver. I have no doubt that THC is not at those levels of toxicity, but I think the jury may still be out on how safe edibles really are, eh?

I haven't seen any studies to prove this one way or the other.

alcohol is a poison/toxin, that is why it is hard on your liver, TCH is almost non toxic to the point of irrelevance [you need to smoke 16lbs in 15 minutes to reach deadly toxic levels of THC] so there are no toxins/poisons to cause liver damage.

 

[ButterMan]

a steam burn isn't caused by drying, it's caused by excess heat. burning does not equal drying.

vapour is hot and damp, otherwise, there would be no vapour..

the dry cough effect from vaporising is due to TCH being an expectorant, nothing to do with humidity levels..

Ya good job it's heat and it removes all of the moisture from the tissue.
TCH?

 

[mitchgo61]

Haha this response made me laugh- dude ever heard of steam? What does steam do? It burns -drying-

Just saying you might want to research it more. .

Again....LINKS? You say you've seen "tons" of evidence. You make a claim that is antithetical to the evidence most of us have seen and experienced, yet you still haven't provided a shred of data to back that up.

You may be right....vaping may be worse than smoking for your lungs. (I seriously doubt this is correct, but my mind is open.) But to this community, that easily qualifies as an "extraordinary claim". And you know how this works....extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

But I'll settle for any evidence at all. You say you have "tons". So I'll ask you again....links?

 

[MinnBobber]

Just saying you might want to research it more. Vapor is hot and dry - the ideal environment for your lungs is cool and wet.

...........................................................................

Smoking vs vaping is being compared here.
I'd say vapor is very warm.
Smoking (mj or tobacco) is very hot.
Hottest vapor would start it's journey at 440 F. Smoke starts it's journey at 900-1000 F.

I'd like to see actual figures for humidity of vapor vs smoke.

 

[lwien]

ButterMan, I gotta ask you again, which vaporizer were you using that was causing such discomfort and at what temperature were you vaping at?

 

[max]

Vapor is hot and dry

Vapor is not dry. You may want to do some more research yourself.

You may be right....vaping may be worse than smoking for your lungs.

My experience says no. Ten years ago, before I discovered vapor, I was ready to give up smoking mj. Even a few small hits per evening bothered my lungs too much. With vaping I have no problems.

 

[mitchgo61]

Vapor is not dry. You may want to do some more research yourself.


My experience says no. Ten years ago, before I discovered vapor, I was ready to give up smoking mj. Even a few small hits per evening bothered my lungs too much. With vaping I have no problems.

I agree with you, completely. I'm just trying to at least appear to be open-minded in the face of this so-far unconfirmed, unrevealed "evidence".

(Ask my wife how different the six years of living with a vaporist have been from the previous decades of living with a smoker. No contest. )

 

[420engineer]

Ya good job it's heat and it removes all of the moisture from the tissue.
TCH?

have you any idea what is required to remove "all of the moisture form the tissue", and that if this happened, the tissue would die, and necroticism would soon set in, meaning imminent death?

you sure do like to talk, but you back nothing up, and everything you say sounds like you've no idea at all of the physics/biology/chemistry behind your ludicrous claims.

peace out, bro, I'm wasting no more time on this

 

[lwien]

alcohol is a poison/toxin, that is why it is hard on your liver, TCH is almost non toxic to the point of irrelevance [you need to smoke 16lbs in 15 minutes to reach deadly toxic levels of THC] so there are no toxins/poisons to cause liver damage.

I'm not talking about deadly toxic doses of THC that would cause death. I'm talking about what the cumulative affect is of having your liver process delta-9 THC into 11-hydroxy-THC and what affect that it "may" have on your liver over time. I don't know the answer to this to state categorically that it, in fact, causes damage nor did I ever make such a statement. You, however, seem to be making a definitive statement that it will not cause any liver damage whatsoever.

My take on this, as I stated previously, is that the jury is still out on this and I urge anyone that may have compromised liver functions or diseases such as hep-c, etc, to error on the side of caution and not consume edibles but rather vaporize. I would also suggest to those that have compromised lung functions, to use edibles rather than vaporization.

Until more studies are done, I believe my approach to this makes a bit more sense but either way, I don't believe that the ingestion of THC, regardless of how it is consumed, be it through your lungs or your liver is totally innocuous.

 

[chris 71]

im pretty sure vaping is safer then smoking and time will tell . but i personnelly do experience discomfort from both after a while .

i sometimes wonder and this would require some testing by somebody with the equitment and know how to do it but.. think about this ...

the oil in vapor may be of a consistencey that could lend its self to holding tempeture for a longer period of time then smoke. hot oil im pretty sure would hold heat longer them water. not saying that smoke is water but but follow me here for a moment.

smoke could contain more water vapor then the more pure vapor from vaping, for various reasons. example could be that the smoke is created in an instant releasing every thing bang in one shot. hence possibly containg more water then the slower vaping processes .

could there be a possibility that even though the vapor is created at a lower temp , it actully makes it to your tissue at a higher temp then the smoke ?

i have wrestled with why vaping always seemed to make me cough. more then smoke sometimes. now its not the same kind of cough either.

i find the smoking cough is there at the time of smoking. were as even though there can be a coughing from vaping while im vaping.
for me its the cough that seems to come on later with vaping that has always had me wondering about vaping vs smoking.

maybe the vapor oil is just plain hotter then the smoke even though the smoke is created with a high ignition so to speak could it actuly cool down quicker ?

i will say i dont know, but you never know lol

just some thoughts from a fellow vapor enthuisuts say 85 % of the time and maybe 15% of the time smoker, that always questions things especialy when vaped or smoked

 

[420engineer]

well, that's your opinion, you present no facts out evidence to support it, and your stance seems to be predicated upon the fact that THC is a drug.

the UK government has been bending over backwards to find any negative link between weed and health, they say stuff like “skunk is lethal“, so if there was any sort of liver damage link, as with booze, they'd be all over it. so far, you're the only person in 25 years that I have heard make this assertion.

 

[lwien]

....so far, you're the only person in 25 years that I have heard make this assertion.

What assertion? I never made any assertion that edibles would cause any liver damage. I've left it totally open that my concerns, in fact, may not be valid but that those who have compromised liver functions may want to error on the side of caution.

My question to you is this. If a family member of yours had decreased liver function due to hep-C or any other disease, would you tell them to go ahead and consume edibles without any regard to the "possible" negative consequences?

 

[chris 71]

hold up... lol never mind me... i think i just blew my own therorizing out of the water.
it doesnt really hold up because even wen i do extreame q bags i still get the same dry hack cough. and surly the vapor in the bag has had enough time to cool.

never mind me lol but i do still wonder, maybe just the fact its the oil in my lungs and i do it alot lol

 

[lwien]

I still wanna know which vaporizer and what temp ButterMan was using that caused him so much discomfort.

 

[420engineer]

hold up... lol never mind me... i think i just blew my own therorizing out of the water.
it doesnt really hold up because even wen i do extreame q bags i still get the same dry hack cough. and surly the vapor in the bag has had enough time to cool.

never mind me lol but i do still wonder, maybe just the fact its the oil in my lungs and i do it alot lol

THC is an expectorant, and will make you cough.

 

[mitchgo61]

My question to you is this. If a family member of yours had decreased liver function due to hep-C or any other disease, would you tell them to go ahead and consume edibles without any regard to the "possible" negative consequences?

Right, we know the liver metabolizes THC and the chemical is changed in the process, so while it's not clear there's any risk, it's also unclear that it's risk-free for those with compromised livers. I think this is a classic "known unknown".

I like links, so here's a nice clear article on the liver and the metabolic process involving edibles. (Yeah, it's the Daily Beast, but medical sources are cited.)

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...dible-marijuana-is-stronger-than-smoking.html

I still wanna know which vaporizer and what temp ButterMan was using that caused him so much discomfort.

Me too. And did I mention links??

 

[ststeve]

I was going to start a new thread but saw this and thought i would join in - not on the debate/discussion (I'm not nearly experienced enough on the subject).

I'm new to vaping (5/6 weeks in) after smoking mj for nearly 30 years. Recently I've been experiencing pain in my chest (lungs) and an irritated throat. I use an SSV and occasionally an IMAG pen. Could my pain/irritation be:

1. From vaping at too high temps?
2. Particles getting through the screen?
3. Inhaling too hard/deep/fast?
4. Holding the vapor in too long (bad habit from smoking mj)?

Should I try a bubbler, ice chamber or other water attachment to help with the irritation?

Thanks for any advice/suggestions that you can pass along....

* Moderators - if I'm hijacking this post or it should be moved - feel free...

 

[macbill]

Hi, @ststeve

It's all about finding what works for you. For me, too high a heat with a fresh bowl releases too many cannabinoids, and-I-don't-know-what-alls all at once and my lungs feel as if I'm inhaling glass fiber. Cough my lungs out. So, what I do, is do a pass at 360 F, and get the good at that temp, then boost it up to 400 or so to finish. Vapor thru water is good at any temp, but try a two-pass session.

It's a different way to medicate: a little slower - but you get to savor the taste (which is the first to go). You get the same benefit out of the load. Just slower.

 

[lwien]

I just take shorter hits on a fresh bowl and don't crank up the temps until it's nearly done.

 

[mitchgo61]

I was going to start a new thread but saw this and thought i would join in - not on the debate/discussion (I'm not nearly experienced enough on the subject).

I'm new to vaping (5/6 weeks in) after smoking mj for nearly 30 years. Recently I've been experiencing pain in my chest (lungs) and an irritated throat. I use an SSV and occasionally an IMAG pen. Could my pain/irritation be:

1. From vaping at too high temps?
2. Particles getting through the screen?
3. Inhaling too hard/deep/fast?
4. Holding the vapor in too long (bad habit from smoking mj)?

Should I try a bubbler, ice chamber or other water attachment to help with the irritation?

Throat irritation is probably caused by too large hits, getting acclimated to vaping, still finding the sweet spot with the SSV...I agree you should try smaller hits, and don't hold them as long. You may find you get the same effects as holding the vapor in. I personally never felt like I got a huge improvement when using a water tool with my SSV, but that's obviously subjective and tons of folks swear by 'em. Might be worth a try. You might also try just using one vape or the other for a few days and see if there's a difference.

I've been through periods where vaping felt more irritating than others, and I think for me it's just a correlation with allergies and other external issues. (This time, right here, where I live...not the best time to judge the smoothness of a vaping lifestyle. )

I think the SSV is a great vape but it is the one that has caused me the most irritation over the years when I've overdone it (with the V Tower Extreme a close second). These almost bong-like power desktop vapes can really hit hard, so just try easing up and see if that helps.

Good luck St Steve. (With or without a rose. )

 

[DDave]

I was going to start a new thread but saw this and thought i would join in - not on the debate/discussion (I'm not nearly experienced enough on the subject).

I'm new to vaping (5/6 weeks in) after smoking mj for nearly 30 years. Recently I've been experiencing pain in my chest (lungs) and an irritated throat. I use an SSV and occasionally an IMAG pen. Could my pain/irritation be:

1. From vaping at too high temps?
2. Particles getting through the screen?
3. Inhaling too hard/deep/fast?
4. Holding the vapor in too long (bad habit from smoking mj)?

Should I try a bubbler, ice chamber or other water attachment to help with the irritation?

Thanks for any advice/suggestions that you can pass along....

* Moderators - if I'm hijacking this post or it should be moved - feel free...

I've got to throw another variable into the mix in regards to throat irritation. A while back I got a batch of herb that wasn't cured well and nothing I did lessened the irritation it caused throat and chest when vaped. Ended up making topical out of it.