Refining QWET Technique

[TrashPanda666]

So I'm a long time lurker on this site and a new member mainly because I can always find the information I'm looking for. I've come to somewhat of an impasse and could use some wisdom. Have made QWISO, QWET, and BHO (using several methods-none "proper" but took appropriate safety precautions.). All this to say I'm no stranger to extracts but I am an amateur with limited resources working on gathering better equipment.

So here is my problem. I made QWET recently using a method employing two jars and double coffee filters essentially pouring the cold ethanol through frozen buds that turned out quite nicely save for a bit of chlorophyll that could be rectified by doing one less pass. My problem is no matter what everytime I do this my end result ends up foaming when I try to dab it.

In the past I've gotten glassy residue that broke into powder, I learned from this forum that that was due to over heating in a rush to purge the solvent.

Do I need to get a buchner funnel vacuum filter setup so I can filter better or does it need to be winterized longer? Any advice would be awesome.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Ah, QWET. Just did one. Fingers crossed for light, straw-colored shatter.

What are the details of your method and purge? What do you mean by foaming? How are you dabbing?

There's no reason not to get a Buchner funnel and faucet aspirator. You'll wonder how you ever got by without one. Don't know if it will solve your problem, though. If everything is kept cold, winterizing should be unnecessary. Often store second and third runs in deep freezer before evaporating. Never get any precipitate.

 

[TrashPanda666]

I didn't feel that it normally would however my freezer is the under fridge pull out drawer kind so It gains heat the minute the door is open. Have a deep freeze full of junk I need to blow the dust off and put to use and that what I heard and they have complete setups with hand pumps on Amazon for less than $50.

Probably getting one come tax return until then I'm using coffee filters doubled up freezing loosely crushed buds and everclear and pouring everclear through buds in coffee filter and then using the same liquor pouring through multiple times until desired color, preferably no green, and double boiling until a runny puddle and then drying in atmosphere. Dabbing on basic ti nail with dome and it just foams alot like there is still water in it only problem is I've had the same result in the past with material I over heated and broke into powder. Neither leave residue in the nail but neither have great flavor like qwet should.

 

[Alan]

I recommend an Aeropress. Place the bottom unit w/ filter paper on a glass coffee cup. Pour about 1/4 cup of finely ground and desiccated material taken from the freezer onto the filter paper in the bottom unit. Pour enough cold everclear in to cover the material. Swish around for 10 seconds or so and then force the liquid out using the plunger. Push the plunger only as far as it takes to expel the liquid. The paper can be damaged if you push the plunger down all the way and the quickly pull it back up. Carefully withdraw the plunger and add more cold everclear. Swish around for another 10 seconds or so and then plunge out the liquid again. One more round of everclear and swishing should get most of the oil from the material.
Another filter paper can be added and the process repeated after emptying the Aeropress.
Strains will react differently. Some will create nice shatter, others may remain sticky no matter how long you purge. Removing as much moisture as possible from the material is important to get a good product.
Hope you have better luck. You may want to get a second Aeropress as they work great for coffee too.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

and then using the same liquor pouring through multiple times until desired color, preferably no green, and double boiling until a runny puddle and then drying in atmosphere. Dabbing on basic ti nail with dome and it just foams alot like there is still water in it only problem is I've had the same result in the past with material I over heated and broke into powder. Neither leave residue in the nail but neither have great flavor like qwet should.

So, the buds are wrapped in coffee filters, like a big tea bag? Why not submerge everything for three minutes rather than pouring through? Sounds like it might be difficult to keep everything cold otherwise.

You're going to lose terpenes if you heat purge, so don't expect the best flavor. Are you trying to decarb? Never used a double-boiler, but it sounds like you could pick up water.

I recommend an Aeropress.

Might have to give this a try.

 

[TrashPanda666]

That is a pretty nifty product, however for the minute price difference I'd rather have lab equipment that I can change the filter mesh size on and use for other extracts. However I did not know that existed and could def come in handy in a pinch

And no not wrapped in coffee filters. Imagine two jars, one with everclear the other with a funnel, coffee filter, and buds. It's all in the freezer and you pour the everclear through the material, move the funnel to the other jar and pour it through again. Repeat until nice and gold. That part I pretty much got down just need to move to a deep freeze. Wanting to set up still to reclaim ethanol and understand heat destroys terpenes but double boiler and 190 proof doesn't really allow heat to ride above 160 for most of the process.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

doesn't really allow heat to ride above 160 for most of the process.

Still too hot for terpenes, IME. Never let it get above 90F for best flavor.

 

[TrashPanda666]

Ok good info but that means evap is going to take days or even with a still set up.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Yeah - even with vacuum, let it purge 5-7 days. Worth it, IMO. Smooth, easy to work with. Check out @Monsoon's QWET tutorial. Uses kief, but great technique.

You don't do a second and third run? Find three, three-minute washes in the deep freezer work best. First is for tasty shatter, about 60% total yield. Second is sappier, but still dabbable, about 30%. Third needs further refinement or for medibles, about 10%.

 

[TrashPanda666]

Actually did a second but it was green af so I set it aside and did a third "wash" with water per skunkpharm's suggestion and mixed those two together and purged separate.

Got some gold residue and a bunch of reddish brown dark sap(oleoresin? According to skunkpharm's), added coconut oil and cooked til it turned gold but the sap wouldn't melt so I poured off and added lecithin, gonna try that out in some cookies but no idea what to do with the sappy shit.

P.s. thanks for the advice on 5-7 days, do you reclaim your ethanol or just use new everytime? I'm looking for something I can do reasonably affordably and sustainably. Checking that tutorial now.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Still not recovering EtOH, but want to. Last time, saved second and third washes without evaporating. This time, used these for second and third washes instead of fresh EtOH. Looks like it worked. Need to weigh once it's purged. Probably wouldn't combine first washes like this.

Also use SkunkPharm methods - even made an evaporator chamber that works great. Second wash is usually more yellow than green with more green coming through in the third. Didn't follow the water instructions for the third.

First wash is on the left, second on the right. (Third's still evaporating.) They've been purging for 6-12 hours. The second wash is darker than usual, because of combining. (Need to filter before storing in freezer.)

 

[TrashPanda666]

What did you use for your evap chamber there? Looks effective. I've made a still in the past and was going to use an old small pressure cooker and hook the condenser up to that and just put a heating pad for reptile or from pharmacy or w.e underneath it to provide heat. Not a bad idea with 2nd and third washes btw to get a good yield, would still only use for gd or edibles though I'd think.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

That's a FoodSaver vacuum marinator. And no pump, just a faucet aspirator. Described in @Monsoon's tutorial thread.

Yeah, that second wash is pretty dark. See how it turns out. It's usually fine for dabs. The third definitely is not. A coffee press might simplify combining washes - do two (or three) consecutive preps without storing washes. Would probably still filter through the Buchner before evaporating.

 

[TrashPanda666]

I've seen the faucet aspirator mentioned in a few threads but still not sure how it's being used in this application or what kind to get there seem to be different ones with different purposes.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Did you see this thread? The faucet aspirator pictured is from Carolina Biological Supply Co. Read it pulls the best vacuum. Doesn't disappoint. Pumps are cheap now, but still like the faucet aspirator for small scale. And you can use it for filtration.

 

[little maggie]

I recommend an Aeropress. Place the bottom unit w/ filter paper on a glass coffee cup. Pour about 1/4 cup of finely ground and desiccated material taken from the freezer onto the filter paper in the bottom unit. Pour enough cold everclear in to cover the material. Swish around for 10 seconds or so and then force the liquid out using the plunger. Push the plunger only as far as it takes to expel the liquid. The paper can be damaged if you push the plunger down all the way and the quickly pull it back up. Carefully withdraw the plunger and add more cold everclear. Swish around for another 10 seconds or so and then plunge out the liquid again. One more round of everclear and swishing should get most of the oil from the material.
Another filter paper can be added and the process repeated after emptying the Aeropress.
Strains will react differently. Some will create nice shatter, others may remain sticky no matter how long you purge. Removing as much moisture as possible from the material is important to get a good product.
Hope you have better luck. You may want to get a second Aeropress as they work great for coffee too.

This is interesting. I've avoided making this because it seems so complicated but not the way you describe it. Would using the metal aeropress filters work or do they need to be the paper ones?

 

[TrashPanda666]

Oh wow dude that's gangster I didn't even know that was a thing that's genius. And is the backflow prevention measure mentioned in that thread built into the food saver marinator or is it something you added onto the system?

 

[Alan]

This is interesting. I've avoided making this because it seems so complicated but not the way you describe it. Would using the metal aeropress filters work or do they need to be the paper ones?

The paper filter may be finer than the metal ones. Probably a good idea to run it through a filter finer after running through the aeropress. The time it takes to go through a paper filter doesn't matter much after it has been separated from the plant material. The aeropress allows you to quickly extract the liquid from the plant material to minimize the amount of green that is carried over. All three washes can be done very quickly.

I'm using the reaction vessel and condenser from an 70's era isomizer in a 110f water bath. There is a vacuum pump connected to the top of the condenser that draws the pressure down to where alcohol boils at 110f. There is a glass cup that collects the condensed alcohol for use again. The oil can then be scraped out of the bottom of the ss vessel and placed on silicone to finish purging. The larger the surface area the better.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Oh wow dude that's gangster I didn't even know that was a thing that's genius. And is the backflow prevention measure mentioned in that thread built into the food saver marinator or is it something you added onto the system?

It's nice to be appreciated, thanks. It's built into the marinator. No backflow lately, but still keep an eye on it.

Day 2 for first and second washes. You can see how much they've muffined after being under vacuum for 24 hours and flipped onto a fresh sheet of paper. It's already very stiff, so these bubbles won't pop easily, and the remaining purge goes VERY slowly. Hopefully, it won't budder. The third wash is in the upper left.

 

[TrashPanda666]

@Alan so the pump is pulling a negative pressure from the condenser head to bring the boiling point down I get that but is it pulling the vapor through the pump to the condenser or is the condenser just work adjacent to?

@Accept cool I'll have to look into something like that for mine

 

[Alan]

@Alan so the pump is pulling a negative pressure from the condenser head to bring the boiling point down I get that but is it pulling the vapor through the pump to the condenser or is the condenser just work adjacent to?

The condenser is sort of a tower with cooling fins. There is a basin area where you can place ice cubes to cool it and do most of the condensing. The low point of the condenser is in the center so it will drip into a glass cup held by a ss basket. I connect to the very top of the tower with the vacuum hose. Not really pulling any vapor through to the vacuum pump. There are several coils in the vacuum hose before the pump. I haven't found anything condensed in the hose. I purchased an oil-less vacuum pump. Doesn't pull quite as much of a vacuum, but it doesn't use any oil either.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

I purchased an oil-less vacuum pump. Doesn't pull quite as much of a vacuum, but it doesn't use any oil either.

Did you find a good deal? Oil is the worst thing about vacuum pumps. Babysat them in lab days. Gross oil vapor. Disgusting traps. You avoid all of that?

 

[Alan]

Did you find a good deal? Oil is the worst thing about vacuum pumps. Babysat them in lab days. Gross oil vapor. Disgusting traps. You avoid all of that?

It was about twice as much as a vacuum pump that requires oil, but well worth eliminating the oil mess.

 

[TrashPanda666]

Nice wouldn't mind seeing a pic of just the still any and all ideas are appreciated before I go all out building a nice one. Just used 1/4" copper line coiled into ice bucket in the past. And oil less pump will have to keep that in mind.

 

[Alan]

Nice wouldn't mind seeing a pic of just the still any and all ideas are appreciated before I go all out building a nice one. Just used 1/4" copper line coiled into ice bucket in the past. And oil less pump will have to keep that in mind.

Here is a photo of the ISO-2. I only use the condenser and reaction vessel section from it. The vacuum hole connects to the very top. Very space age looking.

Apparently there is now an ISO-3 (and even ISO-4) being produced. Here is some discussion about the ISO progression.

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/iso-3-by-d-gold/

Here is a website selling the ISO-3 and ISO-4.

https://dgoldalchemy.godaddysites.com

Unfortunately, it does not look like there is a vacuum option. The quality and taste of the oil was dramatically improved by the cold / fast extraction and vacuum alcohol (max 110f) recovery.
It takes about 2 hours to recover all the alcohol with the vacuum still.