Receptors
- Thread starter graywulf
- Start date
graywulf
Well-Known Member
Ok, well I figured out the first part of my question:
In 1984, Miles Herkenham and his colleagues at NIMH mapped the brain receptors for THC, using radioactive analogs of THC developed by Pfizer Central Research. They found the most receptors in the hippocampus, where memory consolidation occurs. There we translate the external world into a cognitive and spatial "map". Receptors also exist in the cortex, where higher cognition is performed. Very few receptors are found in the limbic brainstem, where the automatic life-support systems are controlled. This may explain why it is so difficult to die from an overdose of cannabis. The presence of THC receptors in the nasal ganglia --- an area of the brain involved in the coordination of movement --- may enable the cannabinoids to relieve spasticity. Some receptors are located in the spinal cord, and may be the site of the analgesic activity of cannabis. A few receptors are found in the testes. These may account for the effects of THC on spermatogenesis and as an aphrodisiac.
from http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh6thc.htm
In 1984, Miles Herkenham and his colleagues at NIMH mapped the brain receptors for THC, using radioactive analogs of THC developed by Pfizer Central Research. They found the most receptors in the hippocampus, where memory consolidation occurs. There we translate the external world into a cognitive and spatial "map". Receptors also exist in the cortex, where higher cognition is performed. Very few receptors are found in the limbic brainstem, where the automatic life-support systems are controlled. This may explain why it is so difficult to die from an overdose of cannabis. The presence of THC receptors in the nasal ganglia --- an area of the brain involved in the coordination of movement --- may enable the cannabinoids to relieve spasticity. Some receptors are located in the spinal cord, and may be the site of the analgesic activity of cannabis. A few receptors are found in the testes. These may account for the effects of THC on spermatogenesis and as an aphrodisiac.
from http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh6thc.htm
nicelytoasted
Vaked Chemist
Graywulf:
AFAIK, these receptors have evolved as a pathway for the endocannibinoids that are produced by the body and are used in almost every body system (reproductive/digestive/immune/growth/neurological, etc). They serve to regulate and control an infinite number of functions within the body. The receptors originally found led researchers to surmise that the body did indeed produce it's own cannas. Different receptors are found in parts of the brain as well as in various organs/systems (CB1 & CB2).
AFAIK, these receptors have evolved as a pathway for the endocannibinoids that are produced by the body and are used in almost every body system (reproductive/digestive/immune/growth/neurological, etc). They serve to regulate and control an infinite number of functions within the body. The receptors originally found led researchers to surmise that the body did indeed produce it's own cannas. Different receptors are found in parts of the brain as well as in various organs/systems (CB1 & CB2).
http://cannabis.net/receptors/index.html
This link says that they have found cannabinoid recptors in mammals, birds, amphibians and fish. Also says that it's likely that they're found throughout the vertebrate world. It does say that there have been no receptor genes found in invertebrate species and the evolutioary origin of the genes is unknown. I didn't read the entire paper only the abstract but it looks quite interesting, if you can be bothered
I did see a show on TV here in Aus a week ago and my memory is a little hazy
so i can't remember the details. But it was proposing answers to the question you ask about how this could have evolved and i'm not gonna attempt to formulate an answer. the show is called "Cannabis: The Evil Weed". Was quite informative.
This link says that they have found cannabinoid recptors in mammals, birds, amphibians and fish. Also says that it's likely that they're found throughout the vertebrate world. It does say that there have been no receptor genes found in invertebrate species and the evolutioary origin of the genes is unknown. I didn't read the entire paper only the abstract but it looks quite interesting, if you can be bothered
I did see a show on TV here in Aus a week ago and my memory is a little hazy
so i can't remember the details. But it was proposing answers to the question you ask about how this could have evolved and i'm not gonna attempt to formulate an answer. the show is called "Cannabis: The Evil Weed". Was quite informative.
steiner666
Serial vapist
"Importance of Cannabinoid Receptors
The first rule of maximizing the health benefits of medical marijuana is to use the appropriate dosage. First let's explain a little bit about the endo-cannabinoid signaling system and cannabinoid receptors. All your organs including your brain already have cannabinoid receptors. Your body decides if it should make more or less receptors based on the bodies needs as well as well as stimuli from the external environment.
How to Maximize Your Receptors
It is an important note to take that marijuana in small and moderate doses sends a signal to your body to increase the number of receptors it produces. When your receptors are increased it means that you are more sensitive to marijuana and need a smaller dose to get the desired effect. On the other hand if you have less cannabinoid receptors your body is less sensitive to marijuana and you will need a higher dose to get the optimal effect. To summarize, high doses of cannabis can decrease your sensitivity to the medicine, this is known as tolerance.
Receptors and Tolerence
Building a tolerance is something most cannabis users are familiar with; however few of them are aware of the ability to produce more receptors. An example of this phenomenon is in a new marijuana patient; often a first time user will experience little to no effect from the marijuana. Upon using a second time they notice a stronger effect from it. This is due to the fact that upon the first dose the body was signaled to increase its cannabinoid receptors and so was much more sensitive to the herb during the next dosage.
Resetting Tolerence of a Long Time User
The long time marijuana user can utilize these principals to reset their sensitivity. This is not advisable for all patients since it is a fact that certain conditions require a high dose consistently. However for most, this is a great way to optimize the effects of your medicine while experiencing the least amount of side effects .
so here’s what you do….
First take a 48 hour break from marijuana. This is enough time for your receptors to move away from your current state of tolerance. Then when you go back to use marijuana, use approximately half the dose you were using before. Example; if you are smoking your medicine, use 2 puffs of high grade marijuana. You may notice that this isn't enough to get the desired effect but leave it at that for now. Now when you go back for another dose and from then on, you will notice that it is having a greater and greater effect on you!
How Much is Too Much?
If you notice that over time that your dosage is increasing due to tolerance, then it is important for you to take the 2 days off and proceed as described above in order to reset your sensitivity levels.
Experiencing Withdrawals?
Many people deny the existence of cannabis withdrawals but it is a real thing and is well documented. If you notice you are having withdrawal symptoms then you would really benefit from taking a break and resetting your system. Some withdrawal symptoms include but not limited to; loss of appetite, trouble sleeping, anger, restlessness, anxiety and a craving for marijuana.
And Plus…
When your cannabinoid receptors are up-regulated not only will you be more sensitive to cannabis but you will more easily experience natural highs. For example if you do a sport, workout, meditate or anything else you enjoy you will be more capable of feeling those natural highs. Also your bodies healing system will be more efficient at helping you deal with stressors and outside environmental influence. Many cannabis patients report rarely having a common cold or flu for example."
thought this was an interesting read
The first rule of maximizing the health benefits of medical marijuana is to use the appropriate dosage. First let's explain a little bit about the endo-cannabinoid signaling system and cannabinoid receptors. All your organs including your brain already have cannabinoid receptors. Your body decides if it should make more or less receptors based on the bodies needs as well as well as stimuli from the external environment.
How to Maximize Your Receptors
It is an important note to take that marijuana in small and moderate doses sends a signal to your body to increase the number of receptors it produces. When your receptors are increased it means that you are more sensitive to marijuana and need a smaller dose to get the desired effect. On the other hand if you have less cannabinoid receptors your body is less sensitive to marijuana and you will need a higher dose to get the optimal effect. To summarize, high doses of cannabis can decrease your sensitivity to the medicine, this is known as tolerance.
Receptors and Tolerence
Building a tolerance is something most cannabis users are familiar with; however few of them are aware of the ability to produce more receptors. An example of this phenomenon is in a new marijuana patient; often a first time user will experience little to no effect from the marijuana. Upon using a second time they notice a stronger effect from it. This is due to the fact that upon the first dose the body was signaled to increase its cannabinoid receptors and so was much more sensitive to the herb during the next dosage.
Resetting Tolerence of a Long Time User
The long time marijuana user can utilize these principals to reset their sensitivity. This is not advisable for all patients since it is a fact that certain conditions require a high dose consistently. However for most, this is a great way to optimize the effects of your medicine while experiencing the least amount of side effects .
so here’s what you do….
First take a 48 hour break from marijuana. This is enough time for your receptors to move away from your current state of tolerance. Then when you go back to use marijuana, use approximately half the dose you were using before. Example; if you are smoking your medicine, use 2 puffs of high grade marijuana. You may notice that this isn't enough to get the desired effect but leave it at that for now. Now when you go back for another dose and from then on, you will notice that it is having a greater and greater effect on you!
How Much is Too Much?
If you notice that over time that your dosage is increasing due to tolerance, then it is important for you to take the 2 days off and proceed as described above in order to reset your sensitivity levels.
Experiencing Withdrawals?
Many people deny the existence of cannabis withdrawals but it is a real thing and is well documented. If you notice you are having withdrawal symptoms then you would really benefit from taking a break and resetting your system. Some withdrawal symptoms include but not limited to; loss of appetite, trouble sleeping, anger, restlessness, anxiety and a craving for marijuana.
And Plus…
When your cannabinoid receptors are up-regulated not only will you be more sensitive to cannabis but you will more easily experience natural highs. For example if you do a sport, workout, meditate or anything else you enjoy you will be more capable of feeling those natural highs. Also your bodies healing system will be more efficient at helping you deal with stressors and outside environmental influence. Many cannabis patients report rarely having a common cold or flu for example."
thought this was an interesting read
djonkoman
Well-Known Member
interesting indeed, and the upregulation of receptors would explain some of my experiences. for example I didn't feel anything my first 5 times smoking. and in the beginning I needed a lot more to feel it than I do now. (I used to smoke a lot everytime untill one time I realized I could get high from less too, wich I couldn't when I just started and so never tried, and since then my amount needed decreased for a while)
and also the last while I've been getting into indulging a bit too much again, since I started vaporbonging(got a bong) and got a vvps for my UD, and have vacation, summer etc. usually 10 euros worth of weed would last me 1,5 week, but lately making it last a week already became difficult. so I started to mostly vape in the evening, and only take 1-2 hits(of hash) every 10-20 minutes. and I noticed I got a way better high, exactly the high I'm always looking for, but it's so easy to overdo it since it only takes so little vapor to get there, but takes 10 minutes or so after the hit before it hits. and it's just fun to watch the vapor rise in my bong, etc.
and also the last while I've been getting into indulging a bit too much again, since I started vaporbonging(got a bong) and got a vvps for my UD, and have vacation, summer etc. usually 10 euros worth of weed would last me 1,5 week, but lately making it last a week already became difficult. so I started to mostly vape in the evening, and only take 1-2 hits(of hash) every 10-20 minutes. and I noticed I got a way better high, exactly the high I'm always looking for, but it's so easy to overdo it since it only takes so little vapor to get there, but takes 10 minutes or so after the hit before it hits. and it's just fun to watch the vapor rise in my bong, etc.
Thanks Steiner, great read and definitely helpful to my present situation which I managed to fuck myself into. I'm really not well, as I haven't really slept in 5 nights now, and i'm just waiting it out. I will never go on a binge like before again.
What does confuse me, although I HAVE been at daily vaping for years now with small breaks here and there including breaks of 4 days twice a month is that on my last break in the winter I went 7 weeks without it, and when I did vape I didn't feel as high as I thought I would. What i'm looking for is that strong punch in the face getting really high, so i'm wondering how long that will take. I'm guessing, and based on what i've read about 3 months.
I have some piss thc drug test strips on the way in the mail. I'll wait until i'm clear, plus another month or so and then i've made a promise to myself to follow all the advice in your post. It's true, I don't need to vape over and over and over, and a little goes along way. But like djonk mentioned, vaporizing is so much fun, filling tubes, exhaling vapour, and with vacations, summer, time off, etc. it's SO easy to over indulge.
I just have to make a very strong mental point, just like I did when I started this break.
Thanks again, I think this thread is awesome and glad you revived it from the dark ages! lol
Cheers
What does confuse me, although I HAVE been at daily vaping for years now with small breaks here and there including breaks of 4 days twice a month is that on my last break in the winter I went 7 weeks without it, and when I did vape I didn't feel as high as I thought I would. What i'm looking for is that strong punch in the face getting really high, so i'm wondering how long that will take. I'm guessing, and based on what i've read about 3 months.
I have some piss thc drug test strips on the way in the mail. I'll wait until i'm clear, plus another month or so and then i've made a promise to myself to follow all the advice in your post. It's true, I don't need to vape over and over and over, and a little goes along way. But like djonk mentioned, vaporizing is so much fun, filling tubes, exhaling vapour, and with vacations, summer, time off, etc. it's SO easy to over indulge.
I just have to make a very strong mental point, just like I did when I started this break.
Thanks again, I think this thread is awesome and glad you revived it from the dark ages! lol
Cheers
Titamius
Developing Connoisseur & Vaporist
Awesome find steiner. As said above, I got a little problem with overindulgment right now too. I know less than .2 can keep me satisfied for over an hour, but I constantly find myself vaping .4 or .5 in one session and getting real baked. The biggest problems with this for me are the fact that I could be spending less than half of what I am on bud, and I feel like I am starting to go into a depersonalized state. Just like that thread that Elluzion has on here, things feel hazy, a cartoon world etc.
it feels the worst when Im not high, like after working for 4 - 9 hours (cant vape at work.) I look around, and get the feeling of "what IS this world". I plan on T breaking soon, but it just keeps getting pushed back. But it feels like if I dont get outta this state Im gonna snap in a few months.
After my Tbreak Im gonna have to stop taking so many hits, but like said before the biggest thing is that I enjoy the act of vaping so much, its hard not to keep going till im too high (which I cant get with smoke).
Ill be keeping this thread in mind.
it feels the worst when Im not high, like after working for 4 - 9 hours (cant vape at work.) I look around, and get the feeling of "what IS this world". I plan on T breaking soon, but it just keeps getting pushed back. But it feels like if I dont get outta this state Im gonna snap in a few months.
After my Tbreak Im gonna have to stop taking so many hits, but like said before the biggest thing is that I enjoy the act of vaping so much, its hard not to keep going till im too high (which I cant get with smoke).
Ill be keeping this thread in mind.
Forsure man, i'm only a couple of weeks ahead of you. I've been through it before though, and like you said it's NOT fun. What's worse though, is that the longer you go the harder it will be when you stop. I only had the depersonalization a few times, but it scared the fuck outta me. Not to mention even though i'm univeristy educated and have a wicked career, I was actually starting to develop a fucking speech impediment! Like my R's would sound like L's and I just couldn't formulate and articulate like I used to. Time to back the fuck off and get my mind back, and thankfully it is. I just hope I haven't permanently fried my sleep chemistry.
luchiano
Well-Known Member
For the people who are having physical problems and a raised tolerance just eat 2-3 ounces of different nuts and seeds for breakfast and try to get 15-30 minutes of cardio a day. Also, drink some home brewed green or black tea(cool it off in the refrigerator before drinking) 15 minutes before and/or during your workout and your problems should be eliminated.
Titamius
Developing Connoisseur & Vaporist
I will definetly keep the bolded sentence in mind in my current situation.
Hey Luch, that would do zero for me. I eat extremely healthy... pretty much primal/paleo but not super strict, although I avoid most bread/grains. I eat natural sourced meats/poultry/fish, organic fruits/veggies, lots nuts/seeds, and only drink water for the most part (some milk). I use coconut oil for cooking and olive oil on my salads...trust me I have the diet part down pact, for YEARS. I also only drink herbal teas and sometimes green tea (the caffeine doesn't help my insomnia), and am extremely fit and exercise almost daily including strength training/weight lifting, running (sprints, trail running, peak 8 hill training), and have single digit body fat.
NOTHING helps! The only thing that helps is abstinence and TIME.... I drink tonnes of water and try to flush my system out and do hot yoga (intense detox, the hardest class) several times a week where I literally sweat buckets.
The body/brain needs time to recover and start producing it's own endocannabinoids as I didn't taper off but rather cold turkey. The pineal glad also takes time to start producing more of its melatonin. Synthetic melatonin does nothing for me, i've even tried doses up to over 20mg! I've done hypnosis, sleep studies, taking pharma drugs, etc. but sleep and drowsiness elude me for weeks after cessation. Again, for me personally it's just time. I know it starts to get better when the night sweats stop, but at least I don't have temperature regulation issues during the daytime anymore.
Never again.... moderation is the only way for me personally. Maybe would be in the same shoes if they just abruptly stopped, and that's dependence.
luchiano
Well-Known Member
No offense but most of the foods you mentioned don't get the brain and slow twitch muscle to work at their optimum while nuts and seeds do. They just help somewhat but without the right foods eaten with them they aren't that effective. Also, the time that they are eaten is important as well as the teas. Just eating them and drinking it is not enough. Those foods help the brain and other organs make hormones and keep the receptors sensitive. The tea helps your organs process the fat, specifically black tea, through oxidation in the liver which is why I stated drink the tea before and during cardio as this is the time your body takes up a lot of oxygen. The fat from the nuts and seeds you had for breakfast helps keep the process going all day due to the fat holding onto the oxygen efficiently, make your cell membrane more fluid for nutrient absorption but also stiff so it won't be too fluid and it won't let the oxygen burn the fat too fast so that everything last all day and you see results more quickly.
Also, how much of the nuts and seeds do you eat because you should have at least 85grams of the fats they contain daily to gain a substantial benefit. Doing this with meat and the oil themselves will cause too many problems while the nuts and seeds won't besides bubble guts but you avoid that by slowly increasing the amount you take so your body can make the enzymes needed to absorb and process the excess fat and protein.
You cook with coconut oil but you should only use it to saute your green leafy vegetables as the saturated fat helps your body absorb the iron and calcium. Just cooking with it is really a waste if it isn't with some type of leafy vegetable.
I also see you eat very little carbs and this can be another reason you are having problems as carbs help speed the process up in our body(metabolism) as well as relaxation due to the tryptophan and low tyrosin which is why a low protein, high carbohydrate, moderate to high fiber meal is good for bedtime and deep sleep. You might not want to believe all of this but I'm showing you what I have found that helps me and I had to figure all this out because for whatever reason the information isn't out in the world as a whole only in bits and pieces and people have to pay for information that is really old news being repackaged and sold.
Anyway, Do what you like. Peace.
Thanks Luch, no offense taken! However, curious do you have any references for assertations? If not, and it's your opinion that's fine. You do make some good points, although I would have to see proof for some of them.
Firstly, I didn't tell you my entire diet...just the foundation (which is what I believe we are "designed" to eat since the biochemistry of our digestive systems takes thousands of years to evolve). I do eat alot of carbs (I'm a HUGE fan of Anthony Colpo who used to be paleo/low carb but has now revised to carbs based on activity level). These carbs are typically potatoes, rice (brown sometimes white), but fruits too even though they are quicker digesting and I also do eat dairy. I completely agree with your last paragraph. What's been working I think has been an ayurvedic concoction of warm milk with honey, cinnamon, and cardamom powder.
I probably don't eat enough nuts/seeds but i'm not a bird or squirrel either. I think alot of it just passes through our digestive systems like corn. To compound this I add them to my shakes in the vitamix and I assume there is better absorption through the GI and thus the blood brain barrier. It's all about the neurotransmitters and I feel my brain is in "repair" presently.
I may take your advice with the cold tea before and during working out, I haven't heard that one before. Any other advice for diet, training, or lifestyle? Anything helps and i'll try anything because usually I attain no results. What I mean by that is that for withdrawl it is commonly recommended to excercise tonnes, sweat alot, saunas, drink alot of water, and eat healthy to lesson the effects, but I do all of that and it doesn't make ANY difference for me personally anyway. Already being in good shape though I think it might be worse if my bodyfat was higher because I definitely don't have any nausea like I used to when I quite a few years ago. THAT was horrible, and sweats would occur at night even if I wasn't even in bed. At this point, my only symptom is insomnia and night sweats, but it IS getting better. I'm hoping to be back to normal in just a few short weeks, I hope.
Please do continue to contribute as it's nice to have someone on here with your level of intelligence with respect to human biochemistry.
Firstly, I didn't tell you my entire diet...just the foundation (which is what I believe we are "designed" to eat since the biochemistry of our digestive systems takes thousands of years to evolve). I do eat alot of carbs (I'm a HUGE fan of Anthony Colpo who used to be paleo/low carb but has now revised to carbs based on activity level). These carbs are typically potatoes, rice (brown sometimes white), but fruits too even though they are quicker digesting and I also do eat dairy. I completely agree with your last paragraph. What's been working I think has been an ayurvedic concoction of warm milk with honey, cinnamon, and cardamom powder.
I probably don't eat enough nuts/seeds but i'm not a bird or squirrel either. I think alot of it just passes through our digestive systems like corn. To compound this I add them to my shakes in the vitamix and I assume there is better absorption through the GI and thus the blood brain barrier. It's all about the neurotransmitters and I feel my brain is in "repair" presently.
I may take your advice with the cold tea before and during working out, I haven't heard that one before. Any other advice for diet, training, or lifestyle? Anything helps and i'll try anything because usually I attain no results. What I mean by that is that for withdrawl it is commonly recommended to excercise tonnes, sweat alot, saunas, drink alot of water, and eat healthy to lesson the effects, but I do all of that and it doesn't make ANY difference for me personally anyway. Already being in good shape though I think it might be worse if my bodyfat was higher because I definitely don't have any nausea like I used to when I quite a few years ago. THAT was horrible, and sweats would occur at night even if I wasn't even in bed. At this point, my only symptom is insomnia and night sweats, but it IS getting better. I'm hoping to be back to normal in just a few short weeks, I hope.
Please do continue to contribute as it's nice to have someone on here with your level of intelligence with respect to human biochemistry.
VWFringe
Naruto Fan
I didn't know the distribution of our endocannibinoid system or receptors was different around the body (cool)
I'd heard each receptor would accept a molecule, like keys in locks, and each lock would get stuck for nine days.
20-40 thousand locks, and I knew when mine were all filled - over-dosing would only work for a few days, then it was nada or just ten minutes of high (and then 45 seconds). i could even localize or sense where the receptors were, often feeling it only in my back and sides, as if the receptors in my head were mostly filled or activated.
I found, in my previously saturated state, or where keys were in every lock (since I liked that analogy), that my happy balance was .3 per day - any more than that and i'd lose the ability to get high pretty quickly.
And, once I was all filled up, it was harder for me to t-break, not because the experience was so much worse, but just hard-headedness to take the leap. mitigating withdrawal was bound up with my expectations - being harder if I was out and wanted it, not so much if it was voluntary, like when I had a lot of work or was working on client-site.
But, I think we also "learn" to get high, which is what i've attributed to noobies not getting high the first time, and I'm sticking to that until I read something really really convincing. i believe that analogy works for the other drugs i used to take, that it wasn't the drug high, it was my interpretation of my human experience in response to the drug that i was getting high from. Like when I used to do speedy substances, sometimes I'd sit and focus my dopamine, or sometimes I wouldn't, and if I didn't, then I'd tweak - it was a dopamine white-out, but when i'd sit and focus the dopamine - anyway, pot's not producing dopamine, so it's a bit different, but i still think we "learn" to experience our highs, even from weed...which is why now that I'm down to one session a week it's harder for me to experience it, but it lasts so much longer, like my eyes are red six to eight hours in.
I'd heard each receptor would accept a molecule, like keys in locks, and each lock would get stuck for nine days.
20-40 thousand locks, and I knew when mine were all filled - over-dosing would only work for a few days, then it was nada or just ten minutes of high (and then 45 seconds). i could even localize or sense where the receptors were, often feeling it only in my back and sides, as if the receptors in my head were mostly filled or activated.
I found, in my previously saturated state, or where keys were in every lock (since I liked that analogy), that my happy balance was .3 per day - any more than that and i'd lose the ability to get high pretty quickly.
And, once I was all filled up, it was harder for me to t-break, not because the experience was so much worse, but just hard-headedness to take the leap. mitigating withdrawal was bound up with my expectations - being harder if I was out and wanted it, not so much if it was voluntary, like when I had a lot of work or was working on client-site.
But, I think we also "learn" to get high, which is what i've attributed to noobies not getting high the first time, and I'm sticking to that until I read something really really convincing. i believe that analogy works for the other drugs i used to take, that it wasn't the drug high, it was my interpretation of my human experience in response to the drug that i was getting high from. Like when I used to do speedy substances, sometimes I'd sit and focus my dopamine, or sometimes I wouldn't, and if I didn't, then I'd tweak - it was a dopamine white-out, but when i'd sit and focus the dopamine - anyway, pot's not producing dopamine, so it's a bit different, but i still think we "learn" to experience our highs, even from weed...which is why now that I'm down to one session a week it's harder for me to experience it, but it lasts so much longer, like my eyes are red six to eight hours in.