Qwet/RSO Setup Help

[arcwind]

Okay, after bouncing back and forth for a few months I think I want to go mainly to a qwet setup and couldnt find a main qwet thread so I figured I would start one since what i want to do is unique either way.

So I live in an unfortunate state, and am trying to convert to mostly edibles with oil inbetween as needed. So My thought is that I want to run a single Qwet wash a month, 28g, maybe stretch it out for 5-7m using dry ice to keep things super iced. Then after straining that first run I want to safely decarb and make Tincture to reduce to RSO for Caps.

Here are my main questions:

1) How long should I attempt to stretch my starting time for the wash since ill be keeping things super iced? I know ill have to play with it but whats a good, but not super risky starting point?

2) Will a griddle that i monitor purge well enough? Should I buy a cheaper Vac Purge? What tempts for Wax/Crumble Consistency?

3) What is my safest way to decarb? I was thinking I could blanch the remaining alch and some chlorophyl out then decarb like normal in the oven? Or can I decarb once i reduce down to RSO

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Ah, QWET!

@IchiBanCrafter posted a video in the Source thread extracting trim with dry ice. Get great results in the freezer without dry ice, but also curious about advantages to even lower temps.

If you want to preserve terps in the concentrate you vape, you'll probably need vacuum so that you can purge at low temps. Check out the thread "Vacuum purge sans pump" for an inexpensive alternative to a vacuum pump.

You can purge with just heat, but IME, you'll get dark, thin, decarbed oil rather than solid concentrate. Others may have different experience and tips.

Got wax last time with faucet aspirator method at low temps, <125F, but trying for shatter. Still optimizing.

You can decarb your filtrate in an oven, but be sure to let the residual alcohol evaporate first. You can also decarb the oil, no problem.

For edibles, no need to worry about chlorophyll unless you're sensitive. How are you planning to extract the filtrate?

 

[arcwind]

@Accept

Hey!

You had replied a few weeks ago to this thread and i had questions about your aspirator setup since ive never purged before tried to pm you but you have it disabled

So from what i understand ill do my qwet run like normal and let it air evap, then scrape the oil and put it on a silicone mat inside the food chamber.

Then try and get the temp around 100f, i will be using a griddle offset with silicone mats, i can reliably hit the 100f range this way.

My question is you said something about water getting backed up into the chamber, how do you avoid this? Also how long should i be purging?

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Sorry about that - should be able to PM now.

Usually need a little heat when evaporating to keep water out. If you're in a dry climate, maybe unnecessary. Otherwise fine. An alternative to scraping is to reduce the volume to ten or twenty mls and transfer to a small silicone dish for purging.

Backflow is easy to avoid. It happens when the vacuum in the chamber is greater than the vacuum the aspirator is pulling. For example, when you tighten the faucet. This particular food chamber has a handy valve that lets you seal the chamber while you're pulling vacuum. So, just be sure to seal the chamber before you touch the faucet. Even if there's a little backflow, it will stay in the hose. (First time, found concentrate, still bubbling, under water. It was no problem, just poured off the water.)

Still working out the time. Obviously, you don't want to have the faucet running for a long time. IME, it takes at least an hour for the visible bubbling to cease with one to three grams of concentrate. At that point, you'll have sap or wax. According to @Puffers, rather than dab as is, it's better to seal the chamber at this point and let it sit on gentle heat for twelve hours, then flip, pull vacuum, and repeat. Plan to try next run.

Not an expert by any means. Always hated vacuum pumps in the lab, didn't want one in the kitchen. Optimistic aspirator will be sufficient for micro-scale applications.

 

[herbivore21]

maybe stretch it out for 5-7m using dry ice to keep things super iced.

That amount of contact time is likely to bring along unwanted material. Keep the wash to 1-2m maximum even with dry ice, and even that might be a bit much, especially if you want to do something like...

2) Will a griddle that i monitor purge well enough? Should I buy a cheaper Vac Purge? What tempts for Wax/Crumble Consistency?

No. It will be too hot. Even with a double boiler, at the boiling point of water you are 40-50f hotter than the boiling point of ethanol. This is likely to turn your oil into nasty goop (not such a problem for edibles of course) and is not likely to give you anything that dabbable like wax or crumble.

You can purge with just heat, but IME, you'll get dark, thin, decarbed oil rather than solid concentrate. Others may have different experience and tips.

This is not true IME brother. Every single picture of crystal clear QWISO and QWET shatter that I have shared here was made with no vacuum whatsoever. It is about managing the relevant variables regardless of the pressure/atmosphere you are working in.

Most people fuck up heat purges because they use a double boiler on a non temp controlled stove/griddle etc. There is a reason that in the lab, we use very tightly temp controlled instruments. You want enough heat to volatilize the solvent out of the oil and not one iota more. The boiling point of water is many iotas more

@arcwind For edibles, also remember it is better to extract from AVB or trim or rosin chips. Washing quality nugs or even mid grade nugs is a terrible waste. You're going to ruin most of the volatile actives in the processing long before you consume your decarbed edibles. Vape your flower first, or press it into dabbable rosin, then extract for edibles from the AVB or rosin chips. It is a terrible waste of cannabis resin to cook with anything that isn't a byproduct from another extraction IME - the terps just do not survive edible processing in most cases.

Chrolophyll is not a major concern unless you are sensitive in edibles. It is absolutely better off left behind in the plant material when it comes to inhalables of course.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

This is not true IME brother. Every single picture of crystal clear QWISO and QWET shatter that I have shared here was made with no vacuum whatsoever. It is about managing the relevant variables regardless of the pressure/atmosphere you are working in.

Most people fuck up heat purges because they use a double boiler on a non temp controlled stove/griddle etc. There is a reason that in the lab, we use very tightly temp controlled instruments. You want enough heat to volatilize the solvent out of the oil and not one iota more.

Using a silicone heating mat under the Pyrex to evaporate 500 mls QWET, get goop after eight to ten hours. Just let this go even longer and it will turn into shatter? Maybe been too impatient.

 

[herbivore21]

Using a silicone heating mat under the Pyrex to evaporate 500 mls QWET, get goop after eight to ten hours. Just let this go even longer and it will turn into shatter? Maybe been too impatient.

I do wonder if you've been underpurging man. Residual ethanol has a much less noticeable flavor than iso, and I have noticed that a lot of people who swear by ethanol say that they taste residual iso in their qwiso extracts. What that tells me is that they've not fully purged those iso extracts and went over to ethanol because the taste of residual ethanol is more tolerable.

500mls of QWET solution will take varying timeframes to boil depending on the temp measured at the bottom of the dish, the amount of resin in solution and the amount of solvent and local barometry/RH/vapor pressure. You may very well have underpurged in this case with the timeframe you identify above. If that were the case, letting it go longer would end in shatter.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Cool, thanks. Gonna try it.

 

[arcwind]

I do wonder if you've been underpurging man. Residual ethanol has a much less noticeable flavor than iso, and I have noticed that a lot of people who swear by ethanol say that they taste residual iso in their qwiso extracts. What that tells me is that they've not fully purged those iso extracts and went over to ethanol because the taste of residual ethanol is more tolerable.

500mls of QWET solution will take varying timeframes to boil depending on the temp measured at the bottom of the dish, the amount of resin in solution and the amount of solvent and local barometry/RH/vapor pressure. You may very well have underpurged in this case with the timeframe you identify above. If that were the case, letting it go longer would end in shatter.

So id imagine with my setup im evaping 30ish ml at a time, what kind of time should i use?

 

[herbivore21]

So id imagine with my setup im evaping 30ish ml at a time, what kind of time should i use?

If you are running 28g, you will require considerably more than 30ml (1 fluid oz) of alcohol to dissolve the resin present. I would be using much closer to 500ml as Accept describes for that. You need enough solvent to dissolve the relevant quantity of your chosen solute.

 

[arcwind]

If you are running 28g, you will require considerably more than 30ml (1 fluid oz) of alcohol to dissolve the resin present. I would be using much closer to 500ml as Accept describes for that. You need enough solvent to dissolve the relevant quantity of your chosen solute.

My plan was to start basic evap and reduce down a bit before putting it in the purger, would it be better to purge the entire 500ml in the purger? I dont know that i have a silicone container that will handle that much

 

[herbivore21]

My plan was to start basic evap and reduce down a bit before putting it in the purger, would it be better to purge the entire 500ml in the purger? I dont know that i have a silicone container that will handle that much

I've seen too many examples of silicone delamination, flaking, melting and deforming to ever condone or support purging on silicone. I don't use silicone at all in contact with concentrates or solvents, ever. I don't even store concentrates in them due to the above.

 

[arcwind]

I've seen too many examples of silicone delamination, flaking, melting and deforming to ever condone or support purging on silicone. I don't use silicone at all in contact with concentrates or solvents, ever. I don't even store concentrates in them due to the above.

So ceramic or glass then?

 

[herbivore21]

So ceramic or glass then?

Always glass. Make sure that it is appropriate glass for the application. Tempered glass or preferably borosilicate.

 

[arcwind]

Always glass. Make sure that it is appropriate glass for the application. Tempered glass or preferably borosilicate.

So im guessing shopping at walmart for this is out?

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

What about PTFE or PFA? They're used for evaporation dishes and PTFE is non-stick. Don't know about PFA. Pricier.

 

[arcwind]

Always glass. Make sure that it is appropriate glass for the application. Tempered glass or preferably borosilicate.

Is there anything unsafe about doing my initial purge in a mason jar down to 25ml then transfer to a smaller glass container for the rest?

 

[herbivore21]

What about PTFE or PFA? They're used for evaporation dishes and PTFE is non-stick. Don't know about PFA. Pricier.

PTFE decomposition byproducts are dangerous as fuck. I don't use PTFE because I do not want to risk causing it to sublimate, this could contaminate my oil. PTFE has been identified to sublimate at temps much lower than what the scholarly literature records, and I would not ever willingly use PTFE or other polymer products if there was any other alternative. The literature is not settled on the dangers of PTFE, more and more of which have been uncovered since the earliest scientific research I've read from the 70's on the properties of this material.

I do not approve of the use of any polymers in a purge at all.

@arcwind

A mason jar really depends on how you are heating it. Obviously, the lid should not be placed on the jar. You should not heat a mason jar full of solvent and oil in the oven, the oven that you cook in is IMO never appropriate for preparing cannabis extracts for inhalation. One issue with a mason jar is that an effective purge requires as large a surface area as possible of your cannabis oil/solvent solution to be exposed as possible. You really need a broader, larger dish. A large pyrex dish is a much better idea.

 

[arcwind]

PTFE decomposition byproducts are dangerous as fuck. I don't use PTFE because I do not want to risk causing it to sublimate, this could contaminate my oil. PTFE has been identified to sublimate at temps much lower than what the scholarly literature records, and I would not ever willingly use PTFE or other polymer products if there was any other alternative. The literature is not settled on the dangers of PTFE, more and more of which have been uncovered since the earliest scientific research I've read from the 70's on the properties of this material.

I do not approve of the use of any polymers in a purge at all.

@arcwind

A mason jar really depends on how you are heating it. Obviously, the lid should not be placed on the jar. You should not heat a mason jar full of solvent and oil in the oven, the oven that you cook in is IMO never appropriate for preparing cannabis extracts for inhalation. One issue with a mason jar is that an effective purge requires as large a surface area as possible of your cannabis oil/solvent solution to be exposed as possible. You really need a broader, larger dish. A large pyrex dish is a much better idea.

Okay great thanks alot, what temp should i try and purge at

 

[herbivore21]

Okay great thanks alot, what temp should i try and purge at

Depends on if you are using a vacuum or not. The boiling point of ethanol is ~172f. That is the kind of temp you need to aim for with no vacuum.

 

[arcwind]

Depends on if you are using a vacuum or not. The boiling point of ethanol is ~172f. That is the kind of temp you need to aim for with no vacuum.

And until i get a vacuum do i purge it until it stops bubbling on me? Then agitate for wax consistency?

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

The boiling point of ethanol is ~172f. That is the kind of temp you need to aim for with no vacuum.

Do terpenes survive that? Since last post, did a second run QWET. Never went above 125F. Used an evaporation chamber for ventilation. After twelve hours, the film in the dish started to slowly bubble. Got impatient, pulled a vacuum and left it on the heating pad overnight. It's solid in the refrigerator, but loosens up a little at room temp. Dark and vile, but that's probably because it's second run. Encouraging - takes patience.

 

[herbivore21]

Do terpenes survive that? Since last post, did a second run QWET. Never went above 125F. Used an evaporation chamber for ventilation. After twelve hours, the film in the dish started to slowly bubble. Got impatient, pulled a vacuum and left it on the heating pad overnight. It's solid in the refrigerator, but loosens up a little at room temp. Dark and vile, but that's probably because it's second run. Encouraging - takes patience.

If you want to preserve more terpenes, you need to use a vacuum, measure the pressure in your chamber and consult with literature to achieve the appropriate combination of temp and pressure. Most people who use a vac just apply some vacuum without even measuring or considering these variables, this is of course going to give all kinds of varying results. Of course, if you really want to preserve your terps, completely abandon QWET and try a method that retains terps better. The best QWET does not compare to even run of the mill rosin from the same material.

I have used lower temps like you describe (and lower still, not far from room temp), but find that the results are very similar in either case. When you lower the temp too much and the oil is not kept in a liquid phase (warm enough to be runny), the last residual solvent cannot boil out of your material. When using a vacuum, you need to be measuring your chamber pressure if you would like me to be able to offer assistance or advice. If you simply connect some kind of vacuum source and pull some vacuum without measuring, YMMV wildly.

And until i get a vacuum do i purge it until it stops bubbling on me? Then agitate for wax consistency?

If only it were that easy. There is no visual way to be sure that all of your residual solvent is gone. If you do not have access to residual solvent testing, you cannot be completely sure that your solvent is gone unless you use higher temps and purge for considerably LONGER THAN YOU THINK IS NECESSARY. If you think it is done, purge another few hours. You are processing for edibles here anyway, so you really do not need to concern yourself with worrying about overpurging your material. It won't hurt for your purposes. No need to agitate for wax consistency, you are making edible product aren't you?

Do not use this stuff for inhaling. I have only provided advice here because you wanted to make edibles. If you want inhalable oil, get a rosin setup. Do not fuck with solvents and think that you'll get the best meds for inhalation, you won't. It's a lot more work for lesser results than if you just squished your bud.

 

[arcwind]

If you want to preserve more terpenes, you need to use a vacuum, measure the pressure in your chamber and consult with literature to achieve the appropriate combination of temp and pressure. Most people who use a vac just apply some vacuum without even measuring or considering these variables, this is of course going to give all kinds of varying results. Of course, if you really want to preserve your terps, completely abandon QWET and try a method that retains terps better. The best QWET does not compare to even run of the mill rosin from the same material.

I have used lower temps like you describe (and lower still, not far from room temp), but find that the results are very similar in either case. When you lower the temp too much and the oil is not kept in a liquid phase (warm enough to be runny), the last residual solvent cannot boil out of your material. When using a vacuum, you need to be measuring your chamber pressure if you would like me to be able to offer assistance or advice. If you simply connect some kind of vacuum source and pull some vacuum without measuring, YMMV wildly.


If only it were that easy. There is no visual way to be sure that all of your residual solvent is gone. If you do not have access to residual solvent testing, you cannot be completely sure that your solvent is gone unless you use higher temps and purge for considerably LONGER THAN YOU THINK IS NECESSARY. If you think it is done, purge another few hours. You are processing for edibles here anyway, so you really do not need to concern yourself with worrying about overpurging your material. It won't hurt for your purposes. No need to agitate for wax consistency, you are making edible product aren't you?

Do not use this stuff for inhaling. I have only provided advice here because you wanted to make edibles. If you want inhalable oil, get a rosin setup. Do not fuck with solvents and think that you'll get the best meds for inhalation, you won't. It's a lot more work for lesser results than if you just squished your bud.

Im using the qwet for inhalation then rso instead of second wash for edibles.

 

[herbivore21]

Im using the qwet for inhalation then rso instead of second wash for edibles.

Get a rosin press, after making rosin for dabbing, you can wash the already pressed buds for edibles. The rosin will be much better than anything you'll make with QWET.

Honestly, if you don't already know how to make solvent extracts, stop wasting your time with it for inhalables. Basic QWISO/QWET for edibles is no problem, inhalables are another story altogether. There are a great many more risks in solvent processing. The kicker is that where the final product is concerned; QWISO/QWET are inferior techniques for the home user compared to rosin and the various hash techniques - especially if you have no vacuum chamber. You are wasting your time and your terps making QWET for inhalation when better extraction methods like rosin can be more easily achieved.