DoubleVanos
Well-Known Member
This sums it up IMO. The finer grinds will allow max extraction and the densest hits. This is how I like my vapour.
Everyone will have a preference here, vaporization is a good platform for experimentation.
Pure convection - To grind or not to grind ?
- Thread starter Roger D
- Start date
This sums it up IMO. The finer grinds will allow max extraction and the densest hits. This is how I like my vapour.
Everyone will have a preference here, vaporization is a good platform for experimentation.
MoneyVapeTheWorldGoRound
OG Vape God
Has anyone tried putting whole nugs with the crafty or mighty??
HillaryClinton
Future ruler of earth
I gave up on grinders, I would not buy a vape ever if I needed to use it, I break it up slightly with my fingers, take a few puffs, take a bamboo stick and break it up more when it dried a tad. I mean grinders have kief catchers so yeah I am guessing grinding makes that vape session slightly worse? Idk...
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
I'm starting to think very coarse grind is the way to go, maybe I need to pick up a decent large 2 piece grinder, give it a spin or two. I tried using my fingers to break apart some sticky dank pieces and didn't get the best results with my Arizer Air. The vapour was decent, albeit not crazy thick or huge, but it just couldn't seem to penetrate through the pieces. I get much better results grinding with that vape.
With the LSV i'm getting pros and cons.....it can taste the best, and give nice high quality blue clouds, but you must be more patient, and ofcourse stir/tamp. I think a coarse grind would be a good compromise.
With the LSV i'm getting pros and cons.....it can taste the best, and give nice high quality blue clouds, but you must be more patient, and ofcourse stir/tamp. I think a coarse grind would be a good compromise.
We are vaping resin on rope with very different devices.
It seems like low watt vapes or vapes loaded like muskets benefit the most from whole herb?
My vape is 60w and uses a 22mm round screen. Ground herb spread across a screen wins every time for potency, flavor, and dense vapor.
It seems like low watt vapes or vapes loaded like muskets benefit the most from whole herb?
My vape is 60w and uses a 22mm round screen. Ground herb spread across a screen wins every time for potency, flavor, and dense vapor.
biohacker
H.R.E.A.M
I started with a coarse grind in the Herbie, and it did yield some tasty vapour, but I could never "milk" my glass and get the clouds I craved unless I did a finer grind. I've evolved since then, and no longer care for the super thick white particulate filled clouds.
I think one of the entire points of not grinding is to actually increase flavour but I think I know what you mean. You can have more of an intense flavour by grinding, that won't last though.
I think there are just pros and cons to both and I LOVE the steak to ground beef analogy!
vorrange
Vapor.wise
It is more efficient to not grind. Also, the taste is more subtle, rich and much more complex if you don't grind.
BUT, if you're going for thick milky hits from the start, you have to grind.
Some argue there is more taste in grinded nugs, IMO there is more intense flavour due to a faster extraction, providing with more cannabinoids for similar air volume.
In the end, it comes down to user preference.
BUT, if you're going for thick milky hits from the start, you have to grind.
Some argue there is more taste in grinded nugs, IMO there is more intense flavour due to a faster extraction, providing with more cannabinoids for similar air volume.
In the end, it comes down to user preference.
vorrange - efficient at extracting flavor? I think it depends on the vape. Another way of saying it is that some vapes aren't efficient at extracting flavor from the most efficient way to heat herb.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
We have too many threads about this.
vorrange
Vapor.wise
I also did not say it depends on the vape to be able to use whole herb or not.
I said that a whole nug has flavours that are more noticeable than when you grind it. There are an array of terpenes present in cannabis and this complexity is more tasteable in an ungrinded nug. IMO.
If that is not your experience, let's just agree to disagree.
I said that a whole nug has flavours that are more noticeable than when you grind it. There are an array of terpenes present in cannabis and this complexity is more tasteable in an ungrinded nug. IMO.
If that is not your experience, let's just agree to disagree.
Yeah, my vape actually makes more flavor with a grind. I think it is a flaw if they don't
I agree to disagree.
I agree to disagree.
EverythingsHazy
Well-Known Member
Not grinding up the bud ever, not even after a couple hits, seems to me like not chewing your food. You taste the surface, but miss out on the inside.
When you are smoking it, you burn away each surface layer and get the cannabinoids from the inside, but with just vaping temps, you must be leaving some stuff inside the center of bigger pieces, that hasn't had the time or ability to make it to the surface to be vaped.
I can see it tasting a bit less "planty", but I doubt it is more, or even equally efficient.
When you are smoking it, you burn away each surface layer and get the cannabinoids from the inside, but with just vaping temps, you must be leaving some stuff inside the center of bigger pieces, that hasn't had the time or ability to make it to the surface to be vaped.
I can see it tasting a bit less "planty", but I doubt it is more, or even equally efficient.
RUDE BOY
Space is the Place
Still All depends on the Vaporizer your using. Won't work with those in your signature without a stir but there are those that it does. (prime examples are the herbalaire and the Vapoluton)
Yes, it is my go to method on the Mighty, clean up of abv is a breeze. If I want thick lung busting hits through water filtration I will grind.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
This sounds like you haven't tried it yet, or if so, only with the vapes you have in your sig, as @RUDE BOY pointed out. Give it a shot. My experiences with whole nugs have been the opposite of your speculations.
flotntoke
thoroughly vaped
Think most of this is very subjective and vape dependent. I usually do a course grind in a 2 piece. With both nano and EQ this seems better, and for different reasons. For me with the nano, it is because I prefer a small load for a few very tasty hits. Have even tried very small whole nugs a few times recently while keeping up with this thread, and pales in comparison to rough grind for me with my nano and the way I use it. Here, part of the problem is that my small loads usually only give about 3 good hits. By the time you do 2 of nug, then break it up while stirring, it is close to spent and the 3rd hit seems less fulfilling than if starting with a rough ground load. First one usually isn't as flavorful, either. With EQ I think the way the vape works kind of demands a grind for best results. Haven't tried it recently, but full nugs in this were weak on first couple hits (until whole nug got warmed up), really good after breaking it up, then weak and popcorny at the end.
Some vapes, like MFLB and vapman, you have to grind or things aren't going to go to well. With solo there doesn't seem to be much difference with grinding/not grinding, but trying to grind the load while in the glass stem is a PIA - so grind there, too.
Still amazed by reports of the HA and others that are better with no grind, and dying to check this out for myself. I have no doubts the way the vape works that this is probably best here (LSV, too?). But for conduction vapes I think a grind is always needed, and for convection you're best off if you grind somehow before caching the load (stir in place or dump, break up and reload) - and prefer to grind before even getting started. If not, and you're not using a vape that is designed to extract from whole nugs, I'd think not exposing the most surface area is going to leave actives behind. Any decent material has a great stuff on the outside (trichs) and think heat passing through will release terpines, but a good bit of other actives are within the plant structure itself. Don't think all vapes can soak the heat all the way in to release them without over-vaping the outside (popcorn), so exposing everything through grinding makes the process easier and more consistent from hit to hit.
@EverythingsHazy mentioned not grinding is kind of like not chewing your food and getting less flavor. Not sure if this is perfect comparison, but think it kind of describes it. Think you can suck most of the flavor from a bite of steak or ground beef (even though you miss out on some of the experience). But if you look at it from a perspective of chocolate with ground nuts in it, eating without chewing - especially if just letting all the chocolate melt than eating the nut pieces - is going to provide a different experience and different flavor profile.
Also like grinding better because it provides a more uniform load in size and actives. IME there are small differences even in the same nug. Prefer to mix that and get all from all loads, than have some a little better or worse when pulling small pieces from here and there. When grinding 3 - 4 loads at a time, I can be pretty sure every one of those is going to be pretty much exactly the same.
Some vapes, like MFLB and vapman, you have to grind or things aren't going to go to well. With solo there doesn't seem to be much difference with grinding/not grinding, but trying to grind the load while in the glass stem is a PIA - so grind there, too.
Still amazed by reports of the HA and others that are better with no grind, and dying to check this out for myself. I have no doubts the way the vape works that this is probably best here (LSV, too?). But for conduction vapes I think a grind is always needed, and for convection you're best off if you grind somehow before caching the load (stir in place or dump, break up and reload) - and prefer to grind before even getting started. If not, and you're not using a vape that is designed to extract from whole nugs, I'd think not exposing the most surface area is going to leave actives behind. Any decent material has a great stuff on the outside (trichs) and think heat passing through will release terpines, but a good bit of other actives are within the plant structure itself. Don't think all vapes can soak the heat all the way in to release them without over-vaping the outside (popcorn), so exposing everything through grinding makes the process easier and more consistent from hit to hit.
@EverythingsHazy mentioned not grinding is kind of like not chewing your food and getting less flavor. Not sure if this is perfect comparison, but think it kind of describes it. Think you can suck most of the flavor from a bite of steak or ground beef (even though you miss out on some of the experience). But if you look at it from a perspective of chocolate with ground nuts in it, eating without chewing - especially if just letting all the chocolate melt than eating the nut pieces - is going to provide a different experience and different flavor profile.
Also like grinding better because it provides a more uniform load in size and actives. IME there are small differences even in the same nug. Prefer to mix that and get all from all loads, than have some a little better or worse when pulling small pieces from here and there. When grinding 3 - 4 loads at a time, I can be pretty sure every one of those is going to be pretty much exactly the same.
I found both to work, but grinding fine (with a lo of vapes), exposes more surface to heat. For me, I guess it depends on a few things:
A: herb quality
B: herb RH
C: preference over fast extraction or a bit slower
D: small nug, couple of hits, then just crumple to dust what's left, hit again (kinda a combo method)
E: looking for quick and easy, or best possible
F: taste preferences
G: stealth situation
H: time available
and there is probably just as many I'm not listing... To each his own.
A: herb quality
B: herb RH
C: preference over fast extraction or a bit slower
D: small nug, couple of hits, then just crumple to dust what's left, hit again (kinda a combo method)
E: looking for quick and easy, or best possible
F: taste preferences
G: stealth situation
H: time available
and there is probably just as many I'm not listing... To each his own.
vorrange
Vapor.wise
Reading the last responses, it seems the message is not 100% understood.
I'll clarify my point of view:
One thing is the complexity of the flavour in one hit (let's say its the first), its nuances, is it floral, minty, fruity or earthy, etc
The other thing is the amount of all cannabinoids and terpenes extracted in one hit.
If you use a whole nug in a vaporizer, the flavour is much more diverse and complex but the first hits you vaporize more of the outside trichomes than actual plant matter.
If you use a grinded nug, you release other flavours and due to the much higher percentage of exposed surface, you release more flavour and a higher concentration of terpenes, cannabinoids and flavonoids alltogether. BUT, the taste is more even. It is harder to distinguish the floral and fruity notes than in an ungrinded nug. This is also due to the loss of trichomes in the grind.
So, although there is more taste in a grinded nug, the taste is less impressive, it is just more of it.
A way to experience the best of both worlds is to do 2-3 hits with an ungrinded nug and then pick it appart in small pieces using some kind of stirring tool.
This method is best performed in vaporizers with easy access to the bowl and close to 100% convection.
Examples of vaporizers are the Lotus, Vapocane, Log Vapes, Daisy, miniVAP, Herborizer, SSV, LSV, etc.
I'll clarify my point of view:
One thing is the complexity of the flavour in one hit (let's say its the first), its nuances, is it floral, minty, fruity or earthy, etc
The other thing is the amount of all cannabinoids and terpenes extracted in one hit.
If you use a whole nug in a vaporizer, the flavour is much more diverse and complex but the first hits you vaporize more of the outside trichomes than actual plant matter.
If you use a grinded nug, you release other flavours and due to the much higher percentage of exposed surface, you release more flavour and a higher concentration of terpenes, cannabinoids and flavonoids alltogether. BUT, the taste is more even. It is harder to distinguish the floral and fruity notes than in an ungrinded nug. This is also due to the loss of trichomes in the grind.
So, although there is more taste in a grinded nug, the taste is less impressive, it is just more of it.
A way to experience the best of both worlds is to do 2-3 hits with an ungrinded nug and then pick it appart in small pieces using some kind of stirring tool.
This method is best performed in vaporizers with easy access to the bowl and close to 100% convection.
Examples of vaporizers are the Lotus, Vapocane, Log Vapes, Daisy, miniVAP, Herborizer, SSV, LSV, etc.
Hashtag46&2
Trichome Technician
Grrrreaaattt Post!
I too have been preaching about the destruction of Trichomes via grinding, and the robust flavors with unground material for at least 3-4 years now.
My opinion was "Self-Validated" even more so when I started my vaporization journey.
During the first couple days of exclusive Vaporization, I was using a grinder despite my obsession with no grind as it was thought to be a "necessity" to expose "surface area".
But, I cringed every time I put a bud in the grinder that took me 20 weeks of care to procure, this strain specifically was the exact strain that made me quit putting my flowers in a grinder.
Lavender Kush... I just couldn't do it anymore, as I knew those precious heads were subjected to the brutality of sharp aluminum teeth.
(I know I've posted this picture a few times in other threads, but it displays exactly what I'm speaking of)
After grinding a few strains similar to the LK, I would inspect the ground material, and as suspected, the once copiousness of visual Glandular Heads were now no longer visible.
So, I went back to breaking up flowers with needle-nose tweezers and placing individual calyxes directly into my wand/ @DDave moDD.
I also will take nugs that are caked like the picture, and stick it directly into the basket,and simply "crushing' it down just a tad with the marble side of my stir tool.
Robust Exuberance are the best two words I can think of to describe the bliss.
However, no two of us are alike, we are obviously similar in regards to the community... But just like the snowflakes, we are all beautiful in our own unique ways.
So... To grind or to not to grind is simply a preference to each individual, I don't believe there is a "right" or "wrong" regarding this issue.
As with many aspects of Vaporization, it's all subjective and whatever works best for you the consumer.