Punctuation and grammar on FC

[Purple-Days]

Folks who use TextSpeak, I ignore. Posts that are one huge paragraph are ignored. Huge posts are ignored (another topic altogether). No punctuation, ignore.

No caps in an otherwise well constructed post, fine.

Hard to read posts, by non-english members... I struggle through, they may have something important to say.

Best part, as a discriminating reader... Avatars and user-names are easy to recognize. After a couple of unreadable posts by a person, I never get past their user-name, skipping to the next post. Why waste my time? If they couldn't put enough effort into their post, to make it legible, then I won't waste effort to decipher it. Certain folks (especially texters) here are on permanent ignore.

I sorta wish this board had an ignore option. It would be handy. Another category to ignore are the folks who do Zero Content Posts and those who are commenting in every thread, if it adds substance or not, to get their post count up. Bump posters too.

 

[lwien]

Along with some comma's here and there.

As well as correctly applied apostrope's.

 

[lwien]

It would be handy. Another category to ignore are the folks who do Zero Content Posts and those who are commenting in every thread, if it adds substance or not, to get their post count up. Bump posters too.

I know I have a super high post count, but I've never understood the desire of wanting to get a post count up. What's up with that? With me, it's just because I'm so damn opinionated and verbose with nothing but time on my hands. :/

 

[2clicker]

Why waste my time? If they couldn't put enough effort into their post, to make it legible, then I won't waste effort to decipher it.

really?

not using commas and apostrophes and all those formalities automatically makes something un-decipherable...?

cmon

i often dont use them and im pretty sure that every one of my posts i easily legible to those with even the highest of educations

waste your time...? :/

 

[lwien]

waste your time...? :/

I kind of understand the logic though. If one doesn't want to put forth the effort to communicate correctly, why should I put forth the effort to read it?

 

[2clicker]

communicate correctly, why should I put forth the effort to read it?

communicate "correctly"...?

that is all subjective really

we used to get by just fine with some primitive drawings on the wall and some grunting...

i like this thread!

but tell me... was my reply hard to read?

 

[lwien]

communicate correctly, why should I put forth the effort to read it?

communicate "correctly"...?

that is all subjective really

we used to get by just fine with some primitive drawings on the wall and some grunting...

Subjective? There is a correct way to communicate the written word and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Now if you choose to ignore the rules, that's one thing. But to suggest that there is not a right way to do this and using your analogy of primitive drawings is akin to stating that there is no reason to wear any clothes being that we got along without them for centuries. I know, strange analogy, but for some odd reason, it works for me.

 

[pakalolo]

not using commas and apostrophes and all those formalities automatically makes something un-decipherable...?

That's not exactly what he said:

If they couldn't put enough effort into their post, to make it legible, then I won't waste effort to decipher it.

Not the same thing at all. He says it's not worth the effort, and I agree with this philosophy. Disclosure: I'm a published author, and I've been an editor and technical writer for around 30 years, so I'm biased. I prefer posts composed with proper punctuation, capitalization, and spelling. Like Tom, I will skip past posts that require a lot of deciphering.

we used to get by just fine with some primitive drawings on the wall and some grunting...

Yes we did. Notice that we have moved well beyond that. The conventions we're discussing here evolved for good reasons. They make communication easier and simpler.

 

[2clicker]

communicate correctly, why should I put forth the effort to read it?

communicate "correctly"...?

that is all subjective really

we used to get by just fine with some primitive drawings on the wall and some grunting...

Subjective? There is a correct way to communicate the written word and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Now if you choose to ignore the rules, that's one thing. But to suggest that there is not a right way to do this and using your analogy of primitive drawings is akin to stating that there is no reason to wear any clothes being that we got along without them for centuries. I know, strange analogy, but for some odd reason, it works for me.

i dont believe its ridiculous. i understand their are formal rules for communication regardless of which culture we are talking about. but they are just that.. formalities. they arent necessary to communicate properly. that is just an idea. i can get the same info across to someone with or without being within the rules.

and i dont believe its such a strange analogy. aside from keeping warm and expressing yourself i dont think it is essential for humans to be wearing clothes. now dont get me wrong i would feel rather insecure walking around naked, but thats because im so used to society being that way. if i had never needed or worn clothes ever before in my life im quite certain i would survive without them.

 

[2clicker]

They make communication easier and simpler.

i could not agree more!

but my point is that they arent NECESSARY to communicate... especially on an internet forum.

regardless the times they are a changin. as is the way we communicate. text speak and slang will continue to slowly work its way into "formal" communication. as it always has evolved.

so as i stated before... get with the times or get left behind.

 

[fidget]

The answers to the following questions may help clear the air here a bit.

What is the reason for punctuation?
What is the reason for using capitalization?
What is the reason for rules regarding grammer and spelling?

From one pedant to another I'd just like to say it's nice to know that there is only one reason for each of the above.

 

[lwien]

so as i stated before... get with the times or get left behind.

So let me get this straight. You are suggesting that we should all forget about spelling correctly, using correct punctuation and correct grammer and that if we don't, we are behind the times?

 

[2clicker]

so as i stated before... get with the times or get left behind.

So let me get this straight. You are suggesting that we should all forget about spelling correctly, using correct punctuation and correct grammer and that if we don't, we are behind the times?

no i never said that. please do not misconstrue my statements. that statement was simply to imply that if you ignore people that you do not feel are trying hard enough to communicate that you will miss out on alot of what they have to say. and yes even people who do not have this "proper" education do have things to say.

my point is just that grammar and punctuation arent necessary to let someone know what your thinking... that is all

and i stand by it

not everyone has the luxury of an education that will get you to where the grammar police think everyone should be at to "properly" communicate

are we to assume that those who have stated in this thread that they ignore posters w/out "proper" punc/gram, that they would ignore posters because they arent up their academic level standards...?

IMO that is a tad arrogant

i use proper grammar and punctuation all the time when i feel it is necessary, but on the internet i do not feel its necessary

i just want someone to show me how any of my posts are not understandable

thanks for the convo Lwien... its been a good one!

 

[lwien]

not everyone has the luxury of an education that will get you to where the grammar police think everyone should be at to "properly" communicate

are we to assume that those who have stated in this thread that they ignore posters w/out "proper" punc/gram, that they would ignore posters because they arent up their academic level standards...?

thanks for the convo Lwien... its been a good one!

My pleasure, so let's continue.

Luxury of an education to properly communicate? Aren't up to their academic level standards? Huh? We all learn this in grammer school and perfect it through junior high and high school. We're not talking about needing a Harvard education to communicate properly.

Maybe I need to give you a bit of background so you know where I'm coming from. I have twin boys who were both born with mild retardation and mild cerebral palsy. They both have IQ's in the low 70's. Even with their disabilities, I never allowed them to use their disability as an excuse not to do something correctly and to the best of their ability, so when I see people that do not have a disability and have the full capability to do things right, but choose to do it wrong either of of laziness or some misguided belief that doing it wrong is doing it right in their own minds, then I have a tendency to get a bit vocal about it.

Does this mean that I actually believe that my diatribes will change anything? Absolutely not.

 

[2clicker]

not everyone has the luxury of an education that will get you to where the grammar police think everyone should be at to "properly" communicate

are we to assume that those who have stated in this thread that they ignore posters w/out "proper" punc/gram, that they would ignore posters because they arent up their academic level standards...?

thanks for the convo Lwien... its been a good one!

My pleasure, so let's continue.

Luxury of an education to properly communicate? Aren't up to their academic level standards? Huh? We all learn this in grammer school and perfect it through junior high and high school. We're not talking about needing a Harvard education to communicate properly.

Maybe I need to give you a bit of background so you know where I'm coming from. I have twin boys who were both born with mild retardation and mild cerebral palsy. They both have IQ's in the low 70's. Even with their disabilities, I never allowed them to use their disability as an excuse not to do something correctly and to the best of their ability, so when I see people that do not have a disability and have the full capability to do things right, but choose to do it wrong either of of laziness or some misguided belief that doing it wrong is doing it right in their own minds, then I have a tendency to get a bit vocal about it.

Does this mean that I actually believe that my diatribes will change anything? Absolutely not.

i humbly repect your opinion Lwien and i respect you pushing your sons to be the best they can be. that is great! but not everyone must be held to the same standards to deserve the respect. ignoring someone due to their education level shows little respect IMO.

all i am saying is that some people, many of them, do not have the luxury of even a Jr. High School education. regardless of the reason. i know plenty of them. to say that the only reasons for bad grammar and bad punctuation is purely laziness or some "misguided belief" is inaccurate IMO. there are many different factors to take into consideration here. you say "we all" learn this in jr high through high school... no "we all" dont in fact.

but for someone to say that they ignore someone because they dont like they way they typed or spoke something is lame IMO. these people will miss out on alot of what these people have to say.

i do not believe this can be disputed

so far ive been called "ridiculous" and "misguided" in this thread only today and no mod warnings....???

for real tho i did not take any of that personally... just something ive noticed

 

[lwien]

but for someone to say that they ignore someone because they dont like they way they typed or spoke something is lame IMO. these people will miss out on alot of what these people have to say.

See, the way I see it, your statement above should be reversed. That is, it very well could read, "People will miss out alot (alot is not a word) of what you have to say if you don't communicate it properly", for I believe that it is the responsibility of the one who is communicating to get their point across, not the other way around.

so far ive been called "ridiculous" and "misguided" in this thread only today and no mod warnings....???

Did someone call you ridiculous or what you said ridiculous. Big difference.

 

[rayski]

not everyone has the luxury of an education that will get you to where the grammar police think everyone should be at to "properly" communicate

Right, but everyone is schooled with good grammar and even if they don't use it they understand it. I'll bet those you defend would read your posts more easily if you used proper grammar.

 

[2clicker]

but everyone is schooled with good grammar and even if they don't use it they understand it.

no not everyone is

and no, not everyone does

my only point here is that the same info can be provided different ways

one does not have to use rules to do this

i never said it isnt appropriate to use "proper" grammar and punctuation... only that it isnt necessary

and that i find it kinda funny that some take it so seriously sometimes

 

[2clicker]

but for someone to say that they ignore someone because they dont like they way they typed or spoke something is lame IMO. these people will miss out on alot of what these people have to say.

See, the way I see it, your statement above should be reversed. That is, it very well could read, "People will miss out alot (alot is not a word) of what you have to say if you don't communicate it properly", for I believe that it is the responsibility of the one who is communicating to get their point across, not the other way around.

if someone disregards someone simply because of how they said or wrote something its the listeners loss not the sayers. i encourage people to ignore whomever they want, but i believe its going to be a loss for them overall. not really a big deal though.

so far ive been called "ridiculous" and "misguided" in this thread only today and no mod warnings....???

Did someone call you ridiculous or what you said ridiculous. Big difference.

thank you for helping me with my point on that. i was not called ridiculous. what i was suggesting was called ridiculous.

just like how i said to someone that their thought was "arrogant", but i got warned as if i was calling that person an "arrogant" person... of which i certainly was not.

so some get warned and some dont... that is my point. <---- this is also not a big deal. just an observation.

 

[Purple-Days]

As I said, avatars and usernames are great. Skip, read, skip, skip (bump post), skip, read, skip (bump), read, read, skip, etc... Some folks just waste their time posting, they only waste mine a couple of times. Hey, it's their life. Rant on, but don't expect me to read it .

 

[2clicker]

Some folks just waste their time posting, they only waste mine a couple of times. Hey, it's their life. Rant on, but don't expect me to read it .

what some say is a waste of time others may say is time well spent. to each his/her own.

i dont think anyone is saying that anyone HAS to read anything.

we all choose to read what we want and what we dont. but dont expect to gain anything from ignored substance.

 

[Beezleb]

Here is a perspective. Some people view poor writing as equal to annoying sounds. So for them it is akin to speaking to someone learning the language to a learning disabled person. When someone does this in the context of certain types of discussions and expects to be taken seriously they are typically ineffective and the fault is that behavior. Think of it as manners.

Now with that said, I hardly see FC.com a place to be grammar nazi's. Last I checked, we are not a scientific journal and more of a conglomeration of various vapist. I am certain if I wrote in a manner as if I was youthful my worth to the vaporizer community would be diminished. I am here to help talk on vaporizers mainly for ill people and more an activist on the issue than just some guy trying to be an online friend. My grammar pretty much sucks but I am understandable in what I write but I am not going to really edit it for a college type paper or anything.

From the perspective of people who are here to hang out and talk about things with fellow vapist will typically use a bit more of a relaxed style of writing and their is no meaning to that. Just like people would potentially view Tom and Rick differently if they acted in a different style.

Their really is not high ground here but a matter of reference and context but realize this when you communicate and if you do it badly do not cry foul for "your" communication behaviors not being effective or misunderstood. It is typically an error in judgment when a person takes actions outside of the norm and for them to expect to be treated the same and to achieve the same results. It does not even have to do with right or wrong. Think of the saying, rocking the boat causes waves. It does not matter the reason, it causes problems.

 

[crawdad]

got seriously vaped last night, hopped on here to post in the "post here if you are vaped now" (or whatever its called) thread and ran into this thread...laughed my ass off at the lunacy of proper forum posting for getting high discussions till i was apparently timed out. its not as funny now but it sure was last night. im glad i did not respond till now, it would of been very hard to read im sure!

there are certainly some good and very valid thoughts in here. but i imagined this thread taking place face to face and it was just too funny in my mind.

 

[lwien]

Ok, I'm not really a Grammer Nazi for if I was, I would constantly be jumping on various posts in various threads around here, but being that this thread is dedicated to this discussion, I'm jumping right on in.

I have a question for you crawdad. This is not a slam or a negative comment but rather just an effort to try and understand why people do what they do. Why do you not use caps? It's just such a simple process to let the little finger of my left hand hit the shift key, that I don't understand the reason for not wanting to do it if, in fact, it makes my posts a bit easier for others to read.

 

[crawdad]

i answered that earlier actually (page 2 id guess). yes, i can easily hit the Shift button and i understand that it can be hard to read all lower case if no punctuation is used (even for me), however i do use punctuation and even spell check (even if i'm sometimes not 100% accurate with it).

i write code (mostly quick scripts and "run twice a year" apps) and manage *nix servers, i use shift (hitting two keys at once) when its needed only and after many years it has become habit in all that i type. i use the keyboard a great deal and out of habit and consideration of my fingers/joints/etc i have cut back on strokes by keeping lowercase my standard. this probably seems ludicrous to many, but i really do type a lot and everything helps some.

i most certainly am not doing it to be "different" or "special" or even to annoy anyone, its just a habit and its carried out on all forms of typing with exception to perhaps professional letters that i write.

if it was something required on here, i would do it no issues but i fail to see the need if i paginate, punctuate and speak clearly. i figure if my sentences are hard for you to read then you are not noticing my punctuation marks, which means you are perhaps reading too fast to begin with. i dont know, im not married to the idea one way or the other.

hope that explains it some, i made an effort!