PPIs and cannabis

chris 71

Well-Known Member
Hey guys , just curious do many of you use proton pump inhibitors for reflux ?
I take pariat ocasionally but noticed in a pamphlet from health canada saying if you take PPIs you shouldnt use cannabis .

I talked to the pharmisit about it but said she couldnt find any indications in her data base about any interactions with the two .

After googling my self , alls i could find was that cbd and thc to a lesser extant can effect the cpy enzymes that help process most of the drugs we take . it was cbd that seems to be the strongest at causing this .

But thats all i could find and like i said the pharmisist said she didnt see any problems .

Anyway just wondering if anybody takes them on a regular basis and if you have noticed any side effects ?
 
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chris 71

Well-Known Member
The inhibition of Cytochrome P450 is only a factor in consumption of edibles.

Vape and you bypass the whole digestive mechanism.

If only I could vape grapefruit juice.

I do want this to be true and hope it is .
Can you show me a link to were you got this info ?

I remember reading something saying this before . but i thought i read that in fact in wasnt the case .

I cant remember exactly how it works . maybe it was that the enzyme production was still effected with the cbd or thc being in the blood ?

I really am not sure , but if you can link to some science as to how and why it makes a difference if its takin in through the lungs vs the gut that would be great thanks
 
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chris 71

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Bump ,

Anybody eles know weather this is true , that by bypassing the digestive track you dont have to worry about the enzyme effect of cbd and to a lesser extant thc ?

im pretty sure that i read that the enzymes are produced in the liver not the digestive track and blood is filtered through the liver right ?

I really would like to find a definitive answer on this

C No Ego ? Any idea you seem to know a lot about this kinda stuff whats your take on it ?
 
chris 71,

chris 71

Well-Known Member
Talked to a pharmisit at more depth today about this issue . he told me that bypassing the effects on enzymes by inhaling the canabiniods. vs ingesting would not make a difference . and the effects would still happen .

He did also check his data base on drug interactions . which he said is probably the best most up to date info you can get on drug interactions updates sometimes by the hour .

And he could not find anything that says the two drugs should not be used together .
 
chris 71,

chris 71

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Yay!

...and then you thanked your magical unicorn. So it's a goat, it's all I had.

:goat:

Ha ha your funny , maybe the info about the NOT bypassing the effects with inhalation might be useful to somebody eles !
 
chris 71,

chris 71

Well-Known Member
@chris 71 this may be a nothing burger considering your pharmacist could not find anything that says the two drugs should not be used together.



:2c:


Well considering that health canada put it in there leaflet for med mj patients i assumed there must be a reason why . other then just fear scare tactics.

Which if you read the leaflet it does seem to be written by someone ho is against cannabis for medical purposes. Which i guess maybe they are i dont know .

but the effect on enzymes from CBD seem to be a real thing . that has been noticed with epileptic patients and some of the other pharm meds they use being effected .

From googling the matter i had come across this idea that you bypass these enzyme effects before . its good to know that this is not true and let others know too it could be of greater importance for somebody taking blood thinners or something
 
chris 71,

DeeCee5

Livin' La Vida Loca in FL
Well considering that health canada put it in there leaflet for med mj patients i assumed there must be a reason why . other then just fear scare tactics.

Which if you read the leaflet it does seem to be written by someone ho is against cannabis for medical purposes. Which i guess maybe they are i dont know .

but the effect on enzymes from CBD seem to be a real thing . that has been noticed with epileptic patients and some of the other pharm meds they use being effected .

From Googling the matter i had come across this idea that you bypass these enzyme effects before . its good to know that this is not true and let others know too it could be of greater importance for somebody taking blood thinners or something

I am not a doctor, nor should anything I quote be interpreted as medical advise.
As I occasionally take PPI for GERD, I was interested in your initial question.
I could not find anything regarding the contraindication of MMJ and PPI.

According to this article, it is the act of smoking anything can irritate GERD; https://www.justanswer.com/medical/4qjs3-told-stomach-doctor-smoking-marijuana.html

Just my :2c:
 
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chris 71

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Well as much as i would like to smoke i dont just vaping . maybe this can irrate as well not sure .

I have a hiatal hernia so that could be more the problem . i dont have to take meds for GERD all the time just occasionally. And as far as quiting the weed lol no thanks . i have stopped a few times but didnt much matter regarding the heart burn still happens .

Also there are studies showing THC to tighten the LES soo it could help . but my question here was more regarding CBD .

Because if it did make a difference with the PPI then my next option would be either give up the CBD and just use THC strains or switch the PPI for a H2 blocker instead

Thanks for the posts though
 
chris 71,

looney2nz

Research Geek, Mad Scientist
questions about Cytochrome P450 Enzyme mechanisms aside,
PPI's in recent years have shown to have serious problems long term.
I was on Prilosec forever, and weaned myself off of it, I use PepcidAC
chewables if the GERD is bad at night, and extra strength Tums during the day.
Go do some searches on long term side effects of PPI's, it's very disconcerting.
Kidney problems, C-Diff infections, bone density.
Check it out.
 
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chris 71

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questions about Cytochrome P450 Enzyme mechanisms aside,
PPI's in recent years have shown to have serious problems long term.
I was on Prilosec forever, and weaned myself off of it, I use PepcidAC
chewables if the GERD is bad at night, and extra strength Tums during the day.
Go do some searches on long term side effects of PPI's, it's very disconcerting.
Kidney problems, C-Diff infections, bone density.
Check it out.

Thanks looney2nz , i had read up on them and seen the warnings like you mentioned . thats why i was concerned
about taking them incase the cbd could make the side effects even worse by increasing the amount of drug in my system as i vape cbd strains pretty much daily . seems as though the h2 blockers might be better option i do take them once in a while to but the PPI does seem to work better
 
chris 71,

looney2nz

Research Geek, Mad Scientist
You'd have to look and see if the prescribed drugs actually are using that CP450 mechanism.
Common effect with opiates, it lowers the amount you need.
I have a feeling that's the same thing for many Chemo drugs.
But you have to check.
 
looney2nz,

laidback000

New Member
Hey everyone

Stumbled upon this thread from a Google search. First off, a little background and apologies in advance for the long post but think it's important to provide context here...

I've been taking low dose PPI (15mg lansoprazole) for about 15 years. For the first 5 years I smoke cannabis pretty regularly with no issues, mostly flower given that's all that was readily available back then. I gave it a rest for a while but more recently picked it back up about 2 years ago dabbling into flower, vape, and edibles and super impressed at how commercialized everything became (ha). For the last 18 months, no real issues with the exception of an occasional "I'm kind of freaking out, need to control my breathing...it's just the weed, all in your head!". Flower, vape, edibles all seemed to be the culprit here so no real link to one or another. Lots of stress with COVID and everything else "2020" so didn't really think much of it. However, one other observation I made when smoking with others is that my tolerance was significantly lower...one hit and I was done...this was true even after smoking practically every day for a year straight. Awesome, right?! Not exactly...

Fast forward to a couple months ago, pretty standard Sunday popped an edible early afternoon (same dose, same bottle, nothing different) and had the standard good experience. Later that night, took one hit of some flower (same strain, batch) as per usual and watched some TV. An hour later, my heart started racing and I started the same "It's all in your head" routine except this time I couldn't stop it. Upper back/shoulder pain, shortness of breath, lightheaded, right side arm/shoulder/face started tingling so figured it was a panic attack. Well, whatever it was lasted for 2 hours curled up in the fetal position thinking I was going to die. So, red flags went up and I stopped for a few days. 3 days later, I took one very small hit of flower and was fine for 15 minutes until I started having a similar reaction albeit significantly less intense so I was able to get over it after an hour but still not fun.

I went to the doctor the next day and had an EKG and all sorts of blood tests and everything was normal. I was shocked. Over the next month, I stayed away. I definitely had some pretty severe withdrawal symptoms (daily user for a year plus) but eventually got over it. A month later, I hurt my back so went to a 10mg:5mg CBD/THC edible for some relief thinking the CBD would help keep me calm. Well, I was wrong and spent another 2-3 hours in the middle of the night thinking I was going to die with similar symptoms. That was about a 3 weeks ago and I haven't touched cannabis since. My mind is continuously trying to figure out why that happened.

Now I have known for some time now that PPI can have some pretty nasty effects from long term usage. However, I take for severe heartburn and have been to a gastroenterologist several times to discuss how to treat my heartburn. He basically told me that I was taking a low dose and any side effects of long term use were likely to be less severe than any damage I would do to my esophagus/GI tract from repeat heartburn. He also advised against any potential surgery option given my age (mid 30's) and potential complications. So not entirely sure what I'm going to do. However, this thread helped me search for more info on PPI / cannabis interactions and I found something interesting...

This article basically speaks to PPI's limiting oxidation of THC or increasing bioavailability of THC in the bloodstream. In other words, there is a link to an increased amount of THC absorbed in the bloodstream for those who take PPI. I would imagine that this effect is greater the longer you are on PPI but that is simply me speculating.


Xenobiotic-mediated inhibition or potentiation of cannabinoid metabolism​

Δ9-THC is oxidized by the xenobiotic-metabolizing CYP mixed-function oxidases 2C9, 2C19, and 3A4 into approximately 80 metabolitesReference78Reference468,. Therefore substances that inhibit these CYP isoenzymes such as certain anti-depressants (e.g. fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, moclobemide, and nefazodone), proton pump inhibitors (e.g. cimetidine and omeprazole), macrolides (e.g.arithromycin, erythromycin, telithromycin, troleandomycin), anti-mycotics (e.g. itraconazole, fluconazole, ketoconazole, miconazole, voriconazole, posaconazole), calcium antagonists (e.g. diltiazem, verapamil), HIV protease inhibitors (e.g. ritonavir, indinavir, nelfinavir, saquinavir, telaprevir, atazanavir, boceprevir, lopinavir), amiodarone, conivaptan, sulfaphenazole, azamulin, ticlopidine, nootkatone, grapefruit juice, mibefradil, and isoniazid can potentially increase the bioavailability of Δ9-THC (and metabolites such as 11-hydroxy-THC) as well as the risk of experiencing THC- and 11-hydroxy-THC-related side effectsReference422Reference468Reference470Reference1389. Additive tachycardia, hypertension, and drowsiness have been reported with THC and concomitant consumption of tricyclic antidepressants such as amytryptiline, amoxapine, and desipramineReference227. Additive hypertension, tachycardia, and possible cardiotoxicity have been reported with THC and concomitant consumption of sympathomimetic agents such as amphetamines and cocaineReference227. Additive or supra-additive tachycardia and drowsiness have been reported with THC and concomitant consumption of atropine, scopolamine, antihistamines, or other anti-cholinergicsReference227. Reversible hypomanic reaction has been reported with concomitant consumption of THC with disulfiramReference227.
 

chris 71

Well-Known Member
Hey everyone

Stumbled upon this thread from a Google search. First off, a little background and apologies in advance for the long post but think it's important to provide context here...

I've been taking low dose PPI (15mg lansoprazole) for about 15 years. For the first 5 years I smoke cannabis pretty regularly with no issues, mostly flower given that's all that was readily available back then. I gave it a rest for a while but more recently picked it back up about 2 years ago dabbling into flower, vape, and edibles and super impressed at how commercialized everything became (ha). For the last 18 months, no real issues with the exception of an occasional "I'm kind of freaking out, need to control my breathing...it's just the weed, all in your head!". Flower, vape, edibles all seemed to be the culprit here so no real link to one or another. Lots of stress with COVID and everything else "2020" so didn't really think much of it. However, one other observation I made when smoking with others is that my tolerance was significantly lower...one hit and I was done...this was true even after smoking practically every day for a year straight. Awesome, right?! Not exactly...

Fast forward to a couple months ago, pretty standard Sunday popped an edible early afternoon (same dose, same bottle, nothing different) and had the standard good experience. Later that night, took one hit of some flower (same strain, batch) as per usual and watched some TV. An hour later, my heart started racing and I started the same "It's all in your head" routine except this time I couldn't stop it. Upper back/shoulder pain, shortness of breath, lightheaded, right side arm/shoulder/face started tingling so figured it was a panic attack. Well, whatever it was lasted for 2 hours curled up in the fetal position thinking I was going to die. So, red flags went up and I stopped for a few days. 3 days later, I took one very small hit of flower and was fine for 15 minutes until I started having a similar reaction albeit significantly less intense so I was able to get over it after an hour but still not fun.

I went to the doctor the next day and had an EKG and all sorts of blood tests and everything was normal. I was shocked. Over the next month, I stayed away. I definitely had some pretty severe withdrawal symptoms (daily user for a year plus) but eventually got over it. A month later, I hurt my back so went to a 10mg:5mg CBD/THC edible for some relief thinking the CBD would help keep me calm. Well, I was wrong and spent another 2-3 hours in the middle of the night thinking I was going to die with similar symptoms. That was about a 3 weeks ago and I haven't touched cannabis since. My mind is continuously trying to figure out why that happened.

Now I have known for some time now that PPI can have some pretty nasty effects from long term usage. However, I take for severe heartburn and have been to a gastroenterologist several times to discuss how to treat my heartburn. He basically told me that I was taking a low dose and any side effects of long term use were likely to be less severe than any damage I would do to my esophagus/GI tract from repeat heartburn. He also advised against any potential surgery option given my age (mid 30's) and potential complications. So not entirely sure what I'm going to do. However, this thread helped me search for more info on PPI / cannabis interactions and I found something interesting...

This article basically speaks to PPI's limiting oxidation of THC or increasing bioavailability of THC in the bloodstream. In other words, there is a link to an increased amount of THC absorbed in the bloodstream for those who take PPI. I would imagine that this effect is greater the longer you are on PPI but that is simply me speculating.


Xenobiotic-mediated inhibition or potentiation of cannabinoid metabolism​

Δ9-THC is oxidized by the xenobiotic-metabolizing CYP mixed-function oxidases 2C9, 2C19, and 3A4 into approximately 80 metabolitesReference78Reference468,. Therefore substances that inhibit these CYP isoenzymes such as certain anti-depressants (e.g. fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, moclobemide, and nefazodone), proton pump inhibitors (e.g. cimetidine and omeprazole), macrolides (e.g.arithromycin, erythromycin, telithromycin, troleandomycin), anti-mycotics (e.g. itraconazole, fluconazole, ketoconazole, miconazole, voriconazole, posaconazole), calcium antagonists (e.g. diltiazem, verapamil), HIV protease inhibitors (e.g. ritonavir, indinavir, nelfinavir, saquinavir, telaprevir, atazanavir, boceprevir, lopinavir), amiodarone, conivaptan, sulfaphenazole, azamulin, ticlopidine, nootkatone, grapefruit juice, mibefradil, and isoniazid can potentially increase the bioavailability of Δ9-THC (and metabolites such as 11-hydroxy-THC) as well as the risk of experiencing THC- and 11-hydroxy-THC-related side effectsReference422Reference468Reference470Reference1389. Additive tachycardia, hypertension, and drowsiness have been reported with THC and concomitant consumption of tricyclic antidepressants such as amytryptiline, amoxapine, and desipramineReference227. Additive hypertension, tachycardia, and possible cardiotoxicity have been reported with THC and concomitant consumption of sympathomimetic agents such as amphetamines and cocaineReference227. Additive or supra-additive tachycardia and drowsiness have been reported with THC and concomitant consumption of atropine, scopolamine, antihistamines, or other anti-cholinergicsReference227. Reversible hypomanic reaction has been reported with concomitant consumption of THC with disulfiramReference227.
Hi there , this was my thread from a few years back .
I just read over the link you provided and although it mentions in the part you posted above about ppi omeprazole possibly causing an increase in thc and cbd if you read farther along it says that no increase was found in thc cbd or cbn with omeprazole

Not sure how to take that one I have asked about 3 different pharmist the question about ppi and cannabis and all have said they could not find any indication of issues
 
chris 71,
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