Possible laser vape

[HMVape]

Whilst surfing the vast expanse of the interwebs i happened across this page:

http://planetstephanie.net/hi-tech-fun/lasers/dvd-laser/

I'm now set on building a conduction-based vaporizer utilizing something like this laser as the heat source. I plan on either containing it in the casing of a (fender) electronic guitar tuner or finding something else discreet and pocket sized.

How? i wanna point the laser inward and have something like an ubie with some stainless mesh on the outside (to absorb the heat before the glass refracts the beam rendering it useless). this way the laser heats up the glass with whatever is inside of it being fully contained. I recently destroyed a hair dryer (in the name of science...) and the heat shield may be very useful to contain and confine the heat to the inside of the device, if not to a small section, protecting the plastic from being heated/melting and protecting the user from being burned... a custom built ceramic container may be another option.

on second thought, maybe a plastic housing isnt the best idea. ill look for something more appropriate... but in the meantime, what do you think? its just an idea...

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i tried using ceramic cement (powder that is mixed with water to form a paste) to encase my nichrome heater. this was before i designed the current controller i'm using now, but the ceramic took a very long time to heat up to vape temp and outgassed an unpleasant smell. perhaps it could be baked to get rid of the smell, but that was beginning to get too complicated for my simple mind.

i also got some ceramic tape - 1/8" thick by 2" wide to use as insulation. It is able to withstand temps above 1800F (or so). It's pretty okay, but it will absorb heat. i think still air (or better, a vacuum) is the best thermal insulator for vape size devices.

i've tried a lot of different stuff, but not a laser.

 

[HMVape]

i was planning on using the ceramic to encase the heating element, to act as a shield, not as a conductor, for that exact reason- its difficult to heat. i planned on directly heating a glass tube, much like you would heat a light bulb or an ubie with a lighter, only with my dvd rw grade laser diode i stripped from my desktops poor, defenseless optical drive.

Ive tampered with nichrome (another defenseless appliance, sorry hairdryer) i think the V2000 portable handheld vape uses nichrome as a heating element. not too sure about its functionality/battery life though (the V2000). Hows the nichrome treating you?

The laser im going to assemble should be able to light a cigarette... and with the right amount of power regulation be able to perfectly (and quickly) reach vaporization temperature *fingers crossed*

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Nichrome wire works great for me. i started with 22ga because that worked well with its resistance per foot value and the voltage i was using at the time. This is probably close to the gauge in the hair drier.

Then i switched to 16ga to try to get more heat capacity. Now that i've got a digital temperature control feeding current to the nichrome i'm sticking with 16ga Nichrome 80, which is "medical" grade nichrome - i.e. it doesn't corrode with many heating/cooling cycles, where i was seeing degradation of the Nichrome 60 i used in the beginning.

i really don't think a dvd laser has enough power to heat the trichomes. My vape is pumping 72 watts into the nichrome wire, 6vdc at 12 amps.

 

[HMVape]

A regular dvd laser has enough power to light a match. im using a dvd rw laser, that should be able to burn paper... thats roughly 232 degrees celsius (farenheit 451 ). that seems more than enough to heat an energy-hungry metal filament to the appropriate temp... some of these homemade lasers can supposedly punch through vinyl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mEpnogUMI
^that dude used a 20x. i have a 16x... im possibly ordering another diode.

if it doesnt work, i have a high powered laser pointer. its a win/win.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

sounds very interesting. my initial thought is that the temp is in a tiny spot and not diffuse enough to handle the bud. might work just fine on kief, however.

edit: cool video.

 

[HMVape]

Good point. Maybe some kind of heat sync... a good conductive metal or maybe some thermal paste to distribute the heat. if the point is in one spot and is pretty hot for a prolonged amount of time, it might be able to produce enough heat to vape a small pack.

 

[spaceman462]

Copper, silver and aluminum have the highest thermal conductivity short of diamond. Copper has the highest thermal capacity of the group however, and so will stay hot the longest (but also require the longest to heat up). This is useful because you can apply the laser to the metal slug and when it reaches the proper temperature, it will keep the weed in the vaporization temperature range the longest, allowing you to take bigger hits and also have more leeway when heating it without it burning. If you go with copper or silver, you will want to brass plate it however, because copper and silver oxidize quickly enough as is, but they will oxidize MUCH faster at high temperature.

I'm just wondering why you'd want to use a laser though. It's not exactly energy efficient. The most efficient way would be to simply use an electric heating element. A coil of metal with high electrical resistance. The electricity is converted directly into heat. By using a laser, you're introducing additional steps into the process of generating heat, and losing a considerable amount of energy along the way.

 

[vap999]

If you go with copper or silver, you will want to brass plate it however, because copper and silver oxidize quickly enough as is, but they will oxidize MUCH faster at high temperature.

I presume you will need a higher power laser than you are currently planning. Like your laser, a magnifying lens can start combustion, but without pushing a good amount of watts (power) from your laser it will take a while.

Why not put well-powdered vaping material on thin copper (or other metal) foil or sheet, perhaps with perforations, and blast the copper bottom (and sides, using a beam splitter and mirrors) with your laser. This would be one way of very quickly heating up an intermediary, minimal mass, heat sink/exchanger. The copper foil or sheet could be reusable; and perhaps could be simply shaped (pushed into a mold) into a thimble-like shape and swapped into a laser target (thimble) holder.

Copper, particularly oxidized copper, would probably be the best laser target. Oxidation of copper is good. Oxidation forms a thin, hard/permanent (a pain to sand off), blackish (here light absorbing) outer coating (patina) of copper oxide which is chemically and physically very stable; non-vaporizable; about as non-hazardous as anything can be (it's what coats the insides of copper water pipes, protecting the copper from corrosion); and does not lower the copper's heat transfer. In fact, dark dull metal and other surfaces transfer (by convection and radiation) heat better than smooth shiny surfaces.

So, using a laser to quickly pump a measured amount of light (heat) at the proper frequency into a metal container of proper shape and mass, with this metal by convection heating the material to be vaporized, is probably feasible. But this will be very technologically complex, inefficient and still be subject to the inherent limitations of conduction vaporization. It will probably never be able to compete with simply using an electrical heating element and a convection design.

If you want the most instant and consistent heat source, it is hard to beat an electrical resistance element (resistor) heating a pre-heated, always ready, heavy metal heat sink/exchanger (Etarra/PD class vaporizer).

 

[HMVape]

Hm... I have a couple questions. First is of the "simple electric heating element", are you speaking of wire filaments or resistors? Examples i can think of are the magic flight family, in which case a battery will only last for a bowl. Now, I havent attempted anything yet, but shouldnt this system outdo that kind of consumption? im not talking big bowls here.

From what I can tell, this should be powerful enough to create the heat needed for vaporizing temp... whether or not it can stay hot long enough to heat up a nice thermal conductor and be able to sustainably create vapor... thats another question. I think with a little engineering prowess and some work this may be feasible, no?

edit: The launch tube uses its simplistic design to create a type of convection- i dont see why that couldnt work in any case. heating a screen filament directly with a laser wouldnt take take long at all to heat, even if it needs the direct assistance from something like an oxidized copper ring...?

At any rate, I plan on attempting it. Its never been done (to my knowledge) and prototypes have so far been my thing (not to any disappointment).

This may be me being stubborn or unwise...

but how will I know if I don't try?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

the reason the magic flight battery only lasts for one bowl is that it takes a lot of current to heat the bud.

when you say "heating a screen filament directly with a laser", is the bud sitting on the screen and being cooked, like on a heat plate? like the old BC Vaporizer?

Or is the screen filament just heating the air that then passes through the bud - i.e. convection heating?

the reason i ask is that when i measured my simple nichrome heater i found the temperature dropped 50F with the first toke. So the laser needs to compensate for the drop in temperature due to the air flow.

 

[pyronym]

If you could set this up and working then maybe you could get another laser to pop some popcorn for your munchies like in real genius.

 

[niall]

A few years back there were a group of Australian researchers who claimed they were working on an ultrasonic vapouriser for medical cannabis. I'll try to find the link........ got it:

http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/pr...03BAB6/$File/Systems copy medicalcannabis.pdf

(iii) Nebulisers
Nebulisers allow inhalation of marijuana without the negative health effects of smoking,
because the nebuliser atomises the drug within the body of the device. A research scientist
at the University of Sydney, Professor Laurence Mather, has undertaken research into
developing an ultrasonic inhaler, which uses ultrasound to vibrate the cannabinoids into a
breathable mist.

Heard nothing more on this, I think I tried emailing Prof. Mather and never heard back.

 

[spaceman462]

Hm... I have a couple questions. First is of the "simple electric heating element", are you speaking of wire filaments or resistors? Examples i can think of are the magic flight family, in which case a battery will only last for a bowl. Now, I havent attempted anything yet, but shouldnt this system outdo that kind of consumption? im not talking big bowls here.

From what I can tell, this should be powerful enough to create the heat needed for vaporizing temp... whether or not it can stay hot long enough to heat up a nice thermal conductor and be able to sustainably create vapor... thats another question. I think with a little engineering prowess and some work this may be feasible, no?

edit: The launch tube uses its simplistic design to create a type of convection- i dont see why that couldnt work in any case. heating a screen filament directly with a laser wouldnt take take long at all to heat, even if it needs the direct assistance from something like an oxidized copper ring...?

At any rate, I plan on attempting it. Its never been done (to my knowledge) and prototypes have so far been my thing (not to any disappointment).

This may be me being stubborn or unwise...

but how will I know if I don't try?

Sorry, dude. Laws of Thermodynamics. You aren't going to use electricity to generate heat any more efficiently than going electron->heat rather than electron->photon->heat. Using electrons to produce photons requires energy. Absorbing photons and re-emitting as heat requires energy. By adding this step, you are reducing the efficiency of the conversion. You're converting one form of energy to another. The more steps you add, the more energy is lost along the way. You cannot heat more efficiently than the direct conversion of electrical energy to thermal energy.

 

[vap999]

Hm... I have a couple questions. First is of the "simple electric heating element", are you speaking of wire filaments or resistors? Examples i can think of are the magic flight family, in which case a battery will only last for a bowl. Now, I havent attempted anything yet, but shouldnt this system outdo that kind of consumption? im not talking big bowls here.?

Regarding "simple electric heating element", yes, I was referring to "wire filaments or resistors." To me, this includes all electrical resistance-based heaters -- use of heat generated by passing electrical current through a piece of metal with a known resistance value. The metal can be in the shape of wires, strips, screens (e.g., Magic Flight products), whatever. It's basically all the same, with the heating element usually used to pump heat into a heat sink/exchanger, particularly in convection vaporizers.

A major problem I presume a laser vaporizer will have is energy transfer (heating) control. With electrical resistance heating, at a certain point with a constant power level the heating element reaches a steady state (constant temperature). The increasing temperature of the heating element increases its resistance, reducing current flow, to the point where it only reaches a certain temperature. Turn on power to an electric oven, vaporizer, whatever, and it does not keep getting hotter forever. With a laser presumably heating a metal target (that then heats the vaping material), there is no such inherent limitation on the temperature to which a material can be heated, other than heat dissipation/loss (by conduction and radiation).

I hope your idea works. But have you started actually figuring out needed power levels, optimum frequencies feasible with affordable lasers, required burst or constant on time (or will a progressively changing light intensity profile be required?), target mass, shape and reflectivity, and many other factors (and then considered the interactions of these variables)? On the other hand, I fully understand your intension to get on with building a prototype, and testing the basic feasibility.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

With electrical resistance heating, at a certain point with a constant power level the heating element reaches a steady state (constant temperature). The increasing temperature of the heating element increases its resistance, reducing current flow, to the point where it only reaches a certain temperature.

that's what i used to think, too. i never came up with a design where this proved to be true. it has turned out to be simpler to just build a pwm and have k-type thermocouple feedback to the pwm control algorithm. in fact, fuck ohm's law. reality is just a bit messier than that simple linear equation.

 

[vap999]

it has turned out to be simpler to just build a pwm and have k-type thermocouple feedback to the pwm control algorithm. in fact, fuck ohm's law. reality is just a bit messier than that simple linear equation.

Yes, near real-time voltage control is required, if you are going for rapid or instant heating, or otherwise must use high power (e.g., using an inefficient heat exchanger design, such as a simple tube, or materials, such as glass). But you have to admit that Eterra/PD class convection vaporizers (using a relatively low-power resistor to heat a metal heat sink/exchanger that heats air), which have no temperature control other than a constant voltage supply, work very well.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

work very well.

i agree.

 

[NinjaVape]

Hey,

My first post here - never stumbled over this site until tonight which is weird.

I've been working on vapes for a few years now and I'm amazed to see people here working along similar lines - I shouldn't be I guess.

Anyway, one of my two main areas of study (other than inline nichrome elements) has been using laser diodes to 'flash' the herb - I've tried many different powers and varieties of laser (and herb) and in a nutshell:

1) It's not worth using DVD writer lasers - they are typically 125mw and around 680nm (red) which is absorbed OK by the herb but tends to leads to burning.
2) I used a 1W badboy InfraRed laser at 808nm (pretty much invisible beam) and this just burn holes through the herb and whatever the herb was resting on generally.
3) Carbon strongly absorbes IR laser light and could be used as an intermediate heating medium but it is a poor conductor (in most forms.)

However there is one thing that shows a lot of promise, I think that perhaps someone reading this may have the time and inclination to take this one further: UltraViolt laser light (UVB) can be used to 'flash' the THC right off the herb without particullarly heating the vegetative matter itself! Light in the region of 280-310nm is very strongly absorbed by Cannabinoid compounds (both THC & CBD), so much so that a flash of UVB in conjunction with a little air movement can cause the trichomes to throw their contents up in a mist of vape.

here's the catch, UVB laser diodes are in their infancy and getting more than 100mW is not a goer right now. You can get more powerful lasers in the UVB range but they are quite expensive and they are not very small. Still they get better every month and I expect to see suitable laser diodes on the market within 3 years or so.

Vape on brothers

 

[stickstones]

You just blew my mind!

Sitting here getting high and listening to Pink Floyd and thinking of your fucking flash laser vapermisterthingy. I can't wait to see that some day!

I think that was a memorable first post.

 

[bluntfaced]

that would be dope

 

[IAmKrazy2]

Is that the future of vape? Laser beams? Well sir, your ideas intrigue me and i wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[NathanBlades]

Gives Flash Gordon a whoe new meaning

 

[E0x]

Hey,

My first post here - never stumbled over this site until tonight which is weird.

I've been working on vapes for a few years now and I'm amazed to see people here working along similar lines - I shouldn't be I guess.

Anyway, one of my two main areas of study (other than inline nichrome elements) has been using laser diodes to 'flash' the herb - I've tried many different powers and varieties of laser (and herb) and in a nutshell:

1) It's not worth using DVD writer lasers - they are typically 125mw and around 680nm (red) which is absorbed OK by the herb but tends to leads to burning.
2) I used a 1W badboy InfraRed laser at 808nm (pretty much invisible beam) and this just burn holes through the herb and whatever the herb was resting on generally.
3) Carbon strongly absorbes IR laser light and could be used as an intermediate heating medium but it is a poor conductor (in most forms.)

However there is one thing that shows a lot of promise, I think that perhaps someone reading this may have the time and inclination to take this one further: UltraViolt laser light (UVB) can be used to 'flash' the THC right off the herb without particullarly heating the vegetative matter itself! Light in the region of 280-310nm is very strongly absorbed by Cannabinoid compounds (both THC & CBD), so much so that a flash of UVB in conjunction with a little air movement can cause the trichomes to throw their contents up in a mist of vape.

here's the catch, UVB laser diodes are in their infancy and getting more than 100mW is not a goer right now. You can get more powerful lasers in the UVB range but they are quite expensive and they are not very small. Still they get better every month and I expect to see suitable laser diodes on the market within 3 years or so.

Vape on brothers

any update about the UVB laser idea ?

thanks

 

[nondarb]

any update about the UVB laser idea ?

thanks

That post is nearly 6 years old!! However in that 6 years a laser powered vape has become a lot more viable, www.dhgate.com/product/high-power-5w-5000mw-405nm-purple-blue-violet/232392592.html#s1-8-1|4079425060 UV lasers are available online in the $20 range advertised as being able to light cigarettes. With a little shopping around I'm sure there's one suitable to making a vape out of.