Pocketable TC Box Mod Concept for Dry Herb

[Entheos Hex]

So the goal is to create a side loaded attachment on a mod for dry herbs like the Tubo Evic. It emphasizes on a compact form factor to be used in a country where cannabis is illegal. I have made quick 3d models for an evic VTC mini. Would appreciate the help by getting early feedback on the design and heating elements that could be used for this (maybe something like the 'the project'?). Finally, I would want it to be more battery efficient than the Tubo, even if it means a smaller bowl or longer heat up time.

Before looking at the images, just want to make clear this was a quick model so i didn't go into too much details. Just enough to show how I see it in my head.

Evic VTC mini inserted into the sleeve.

Sectioned view of the sleeve. Colored tubes are glass.
Yellow = air pathway + mouthpiece
Green = bowl (maybe can be made in SS for hybrid type vape?)
Red = Glass chamber for the heating element

Wires will crawl from the bottom of the heating element up to the 510 connection on the evic via the grooves in the walls.

Dimensions of the model in the picture (sleeve + VTC mini) is 8.6cm x 6.2 x 2.8

Again, nothing final specially on the glass tubes and how they will fit in the body and with the other glass parts. Overall design and dimensions will change as I try to look for a custom glass maker or possible glass tubes that can be re-purposed for this project (hope someone would inform me on glass type, all i know is borosilicate glass is the standard)

Planning to have the body be CNC machined from wood or possibly have it 3D printed in whatever available material that can withstand the heat the glass tubes will be reaching. Or made by hand haha

I have a VTC mini on its way and will play around with some coils or try to recreate the coil the tubo uses.

Also I have no clue on the firmware side of things of the mod and would be glad to learn more about what I'm going to need. Thank you!

 

[oddjobold]

I like idea of SBS heaters for mods. Biggest issue with the splinter (not that there is many) is that the end result is very tall.

I also agree with placing the heater inline rather to the side. Sold my tubox because it was just to big to fit in my pocket in that config.

However would question your choice of mod. @KeroZen will tell you the 510 is the weakest part of these mods. Not experianced this myself yet. However i am very wary of keeping screwing / unscrewing to a minimum. Everytime you change the battery you would need to remove your heater. This would be a lot with a single battery mod.

Would reccomend the evic cubiod. 2x 18650. Bottom loading batteries not much bigger. Could also make your own mod with a DNA board.

However what i think this community really needs is an adjustable adapter to be able SBS any atty of your choice. Something that screws in to the 510 but places another 510 to the side of your mod. I would pay good money for that.

This could also be done with a purpose built SBS mod that has a 510 wider than normal to be able to take splinter and iheeat. Would be interested on working with you on something like that.

 

[Entheos Hex]

Thank you. Yes I agree with the screwing/unscrewing part, I failed to think about that one. Maybe I can design a connection that would allow me to just slide the mod in and out of the sleeve. Or something with magnets.

Sadly I already paid for the VTC mini and i don't think that shop has the Cuboid in their inventory. Maybe I can consider the cuboid when I make a few more of these for my friends. For now I guess i'll just use the VTC mini for the initial prototype. What firmware should I put once I receive it?

For the heating element, i'm thinking of doing something like 'the project' vape or imitate the tubo heater except use only 2 coils? (to save space and maybe save batter??)

 

[Entheos Hex]

I just viewed the cuboid and I think it would be a better fit for my design. Aside from bottom loading batteries. It also has the 510 connection away from the hit button. Damn, wish I could refund the VTC mini haha

 

[Entheos Hex]

Could you kindly explain what you mean by 'purpose built SBS mod that has a 510 wider than normal to be able to take splinter and iheeat'. I cant seem to picture what you are trying to say. My bad sorry

 

[oddjobold]

SBS = side by side mod. Something like the knight v2 or the witcher. A 510 connector to the side rather than on top.

Problem with existing SBS mods, not wide enough to be able to take splinter, iheat (or maybe modpod when it come out).

There are DNA based 3d printed enclosures on line. Was thinking of adapting one of these. Obviously you already have the cad skills need to do this.

Fastech.com are very cheap for mods. Look for listing saying "Authetic". Shipping is quick as well.

 

[Entheos Hex]

I'm liking the idea of building around a DNA chip. It would offer more creative freedom in terms of designing for pocketability. What would be the best version to get budget wise?

 

[oddjobold]

I dont think any of them are cheap. 75c has a colour screen and i have been eyeing that up.

This might be of interest:

http://m.yeggi.com/q/evolv+dna+75c/?s=tx

 

[P.A.M.]

Could you kindly explain what you mean by 'purpose built SBS mod that has a 510 wider than normal to be able to take splinter and iheeat'. I cant seem to picture what you are trying to say. My bad sorry

Problem with existing SBS mods, not wide enough to be able to take splinter, iheat (or maybe modpod when it come out).

The witcher is able to take the iHeat ..

http://www.toasty-top.com/images/witcherapplewalnut.jpg

The Splinter can't because it is thicker then the IHeat due to it glass insert.

I love the arch like design @Berimbolero

 

[Fat Freddy]

The witcher is able to take the iHeat ..

http://www.toasty-top.com/images/witcherapplewalnut.jpg

The Splinter can't because it is thicker then the IHeat due to it glass insert.

I love the arch like design @Berimbolero

Perhaps a heat sink might elevate the Splinter sufficiently so it will fit? Not familiar with the wicher.


.

 

[P.A.M.]

Perhaps a heat sink might elevate the Splinter sufficiently so it will fit? Not familiar with the wicher.


.

The witcher fits application 25mm in diameter or under.

The Splinter is constructed of a female glass joint surrounded by a wooden body that totals over 25mm.

Even with a heat sink the Splinter is still too wide in diameter to sit/connect(align) in the witcher's side cart.

The iHeat is 25mm in diameter.

 

[Andreaerdna]

Iheat would work in side by setup side as PAM already wrote

 

[oddjobold]

Okay i stand corrected on the iheat.

However i still believe a 3D printed DNA SBS enclosure especailly for dry herb attys would be a could thing to have.

 

[P.A.M.]

However i still believe a 3D printed DNA SBS enclosure especailly for dry herb attys would be a could thing to have.

very much so. Also a safe way to diy. 2 wires from DNA board to battery(ies) , 2 wires from DNA board to 510 insert. . I think that would be all ?

there isn't many sbs options for the iHeat either. When placed on top of a mod box, they all look unnecessarily tall regardless of the model, imo .

A DNA (or any board) SBS enclosure with enough diameter clearance for various models would be cool.

I still like @Berimbolero idea , design and lines . Viewed differently, The half arch area could house the 510 thread at the bottom , leaving the arch's as guide/support to the open aired cartridge .the board could go on the opposite side where the heater is now placed in diagram.

It would be a mod box of its own, rather then limiting a 'slide in sleeve' to 1 mod model.

@Berimbolero , You want to cut your mod box or cut wires from top 510 connection and place the 510 at bottom to make it a side cart or SBS? If the case and playing with soldering wires, it wouldn't take much more effort to start yourself a mod box from scratch.

 

[just_the_flu]

...i dig your idea, one question/remark... if i understand this correct, this is a 'sleeve' attachment for evic mini... how are you planning on screwing it into the 510 connector?


...i think this is a great idea! it would be cool to introduce this concept for other popular mod types in the future

 

[Entheos Hex]

I still haven't thought about how the 510 connection at the top would attach to the wires that will crawl down to the bottom of the heating chamber. As @oddjobold said, if I screw the wires on the 510 I'm going to have to screw/unscrew it every time i'm going to replace the battery on the VTC mini.

I actually like the idea of making a mod box from scratch by 3D printing a case that will have the 510 at the bottom like the mentioned existing SBS mods. I just find the DNA chip a bit pricey. Maybe there are other chip alternatives?

As of now I'm thinking of how to design the sleeve to be able to access the battery without removing the 510 connection on the VTC mini. Or buy a Cuboid and design something for that mod instead.

 

[StonerSloth]

I still haven't thought about how the 510 connection at the top would attach to the wires that will crawl down to the bottom of the heating chamber. As @oddjobold said, if I screw the wires on the 510 I'm going to have to screw/unscrew it every time i'm going to replace the battery on the VTC mini.

I actually like the idea of making a mod box from scratch by 3D printing a case that will have the 510 at the bottom like the mentioned existing SBS mods. I just find the DNA chip a bit pricey. Maybe there are other chip alternatives?

As of now I'm thinking of how to design the sleeve to be able to access the battery without removing the 510 connection on the VTC mini. Or buy a Cuboid and design something for that mod instead.

If I was building a from-scratch box mod with a convection heating element inside, I would eliminate the 510 connector entirely.

 

[Entheos Hex]

Hi guys, things have been going slow. Regarding the issues brought up about the 510 connection, I will be eliminating it and have the heater directly connected via wires to the VTC mini. And regards to the battery door, I have ideas and alternatives on how to place the other elements in a way that it will not obstruct the changing of batteries but I am not ready to share them yet. My focus has been on developing the performance elements of the vaporizer.

For the past months I've been trying to source local manufacturers for the parts I'll be needing for this custom dry herb vape. I didn't have much luck so I am currently in talks with Chinese manufacturers thru Alibaba for manufacturing of parts for the vape. I wanted to share my concept for the heating chamber+herb chamber+vapor path here before my impulsiveness gets the best of me and wishfully thinking that some of you guys can help me find alternative manufacturers for the glass and CNC machined SS316 parts.

Here is a close up of the heating chamber and her chamber. The transparent tube will be made of one piece quartz glass. The empty space to the left will house the heating element (thinking of SS316 vape coils). It is divided by a glass plate in the middle.

Here is the access to the herb chamber. The gray parts are CNC machined SS316 pieces.

A view from the bottom of where air will pass through coming from the heating chamber.

Overall view of all the elements including vapor path.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[KeroZen]

Very interesting. That heater configuration will provide a very particular mix of the different heat transfer methods (convection, conduction and radiation) Some energy will pass right through the transparent glass, some will be reflected by the shiny stainless steel.

It will be hard to find the right balance such that the material doesn't cook too much when you are not drawing (but apparently the conduction part in the Mighty is a sought after feature according to its users)

It will be also hard to get even cooking in the bowl.

Will the bottom SS "grill" part be removable for cleaning?

Where does the air enter? It's also missing the two bottom holes in the glass to pass the two heater wires. Plus possibly one or more extra holes if you want to have a temperature sensor (but since you seem to be going the ready-made e-cig chipset way you won't be able to use that, unless you have good hacking skills and can find some free pins on your MCU)

How does the glass stem mate to the chimney SS part? I'd make the chimney top be a female standard taper joint instead, this way it would accept all standard stems (glass, wood, metal) that users already have. Otherwise it will be hard to make that connection air-tight.

Note also that this top SS chimney must be made as thin as possible. You want it the least massive possible or it will sink a lot of heat out of your system and be harder on the battery. Alternatively you might want to keep it massive such that it cools the vapor by conducting heat out of the stream, but then it will be full of condensed oil and you better make it easy to clean and reclaim from. I don't know whichever is more desirable.

Also looking more closely, that glass/quartz part will be hard to manufacture. Possibly fragile too. Once the heater will be installed you won't be able to remove that part from the vape. So it needs to be cleanable "in place".

Overall the idea is nice but I think it's too complex and it introduces too many unknowns. I'd stick with a 14mm or 18mm stem system, or something right in between like in the Nomad. The bowl is contained in the stem. This way you just have to figure how to encase / encapsulate your heater and prevent debris from falling into it.

I'd also get rid completely of the 510 port as others said.

Ah and lastly, wrap the whole assembly in a mirror polish metal foil (SS or aluminium) This will reflect energy back to the heater instead of it getting wasted heating the heater support and vape body.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

in talks with Chinese manufacturers thru Alibaba for manufacturing of parts for the vape.

if it were me, i'd wait until i had a working prototype before incurring this kind of expense.

 

[Entheos Hex]

Hi, haven't updated my progress for this in a while and I am now paying the price for it haha. Let me explain as I am in deep need for valuable input for this project.

I jumped the gun and order 1 sample set of parts I have designed. Here is a clip(drop box link) and set of images of the 1st set I designed with vapor path illustration:

Video clip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dttfx0o3szhkno/VID_20190208_084451.mp4?dl=0

****Internals. Quartz Glass heating chamber and herb chamber in one piece

**** two 24g SS316 wire twisted****

****** Air path*****


Part details:

Evic VTC mini - Tubo firmware - stock PID - TCR at 185 -

Quartz Glass - heater chamber and bowl (one piece)

Stainless Steel 303 - body, vapor path/mouthpiece

Heating element : twisted 24g (x2) SS316 wire @ .26ish ohms


It blows out satisfyingly big clouds after a long pull (10-15 seconds). ABV comes out very even in a golden brown color sometimes darker depending on the flower used. I only have a fury 2 vape for comparison and I preferred the overall high of my self designed prototype better. (Yes, I am considering the fact I could be biased). I found the air intake hole too big though, so it sort of requires technique, inhale control and a long pull to get those clouds.

I had issues on the hot body during usage, form factor, weight and aesthetics of the device. My bad for not realizing the flaws in the design. Worst is, while changing out the heating element I dropped the quartz glass piece and it smashed. Due to frustration and instead of consulting here for advice on the current design, I got stubborn and decided to design and ordered another sample set using the same concept while addressing the changes I wanted.

Here are images for the next sample set with vapor path illustration:

***** latest design beside fury 2 vaporizer

*** disassembled showing the internals

*****Air intake of new design

Major changes are:

Alumina Ceramic bowl and heating chamber (for durability purposes since quartz glass is fragile)

Aluminum 6061 in black oxide finish for body, vapor path, mouthpiece (to reduce weight and also for bringing down overall prices)

PEEK sleeve around the heating chamber (supposed to insulate heat)

More complex air intake path. The air passes around the PEEK sleeve then over the ceramic piece before it goes through the heating element chamber (idea from other convection vapes) *shown above


MAJOR MAJOR ISSUE with new sample set:

Most of the time I get NO vapor at all, when I do it is very wispy and unsatisfying. What's really weird is somehow I still feel a significant high from the flower and the ABV still comes out in a light golden brown.

I am suspicious that it might have to do with the change in material. Maybe aluminum absorbs too much heat? Maybe the ceramic piece? Maybe the air intake concept I came up with is shit?

I am hoping I can get valuable advice from people with more experience if my design for this project is still worth pursuing. There are a lot more questions you may have regarding design reason and choices, so feel free to ask away and criticize whatever you think is flawed.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Interesting thread and concept! From what i know ceramics conducts heat better than quartz ,also aluminum ,so it might be combination of both. I also dont think that quartz is more fragile than ceramics but i might be wrong on that one .

 

[kanorian]

Aluminum 6061 in black oxide finish for body, vapor path, mouthpiece (to reduce weight and also for bringing down overall prices)

Splendid progress on your work man! I like the new design on the mouthpiece. Is the narrow pathway at the end an adapter for mouthpiece extensions? I prefer the quartz or something not ceramic (healthwise) on the heating chamber. No vapor but good airflow? or is it hard to draw?

 

[Entheos Hex]

Splendid progress on your work man! I like the new design on the mouthpiece. Is the narrow pathway at the end an adapter for mouthpiece extensions? I prefer the quartz or something not ceramic (healthwise) on the heating chamber. No vapor but good airflow? or is it hard to draw?

Okay, I finally got something going on with the new prototype. I did away with the complex air intake, I'm guessing the air paths were too narrow. Modified the pieces and now the airflow path is the same as the simpler air path of the first prototype in the video. I even combusted a bit while vaping very small amounts of herb, which hopefully means I just need to adjust values on the box mod just like before. I will try to get videos soon, I just ran out of herb to vape. Note that since the orientation of the bowl is inverted, the less you put the farther away it is from the heater. It is designed like this to keep the overall size of the vape in a small form.

It wasnt really intended as an adapter for extensions but it could be. I switched to that shape at the end so that you can hit the vape, no matter how you are holding the whole unit. You slide up the mouthpiece so the cylinder shape goes past the box mod vape. First design had rectangular shape, so it you can only hold it a certain number of ways to take a hit comfortably. Quartz will perform better but it's been hard to find a manufacturer that is confident in making it in that shape plus it will be really fragile and one drop of the unit could crack it. May I ask what exactly are your concerns regarding ceramic? Don't a lot of vaporizers use ceramic as chambers? I prefer quartz as well but it's just too fragile for me.

As for material, I might go back to SS303 for some or all of the parts if the price doesnt reflect much change for the initial mass order. Stainless steel shouldn't absorb much heat as aluminum if i'm correct. I'm thinking of having the mouthpiece in zirconia ceramic depending on cost.

 

[Entheos Hex]

Interesting thread and concept! From what i know ceramics conducts heat better than quartz ,also aluminum ,so it might be combination of both. I also dont think that quartz is more fragile than ceramics but i might be wrong on that one .

Main cause seems to be that the air intake concept had too narrow of a path. I modified it so it is now the same as the original airpath. I'm pretty sure quartz is more fragile, I am using alumina ceramic.