PIZZA THREAD

[snackmaster]

Quoting this because it's kinda buried in @vtac's post and it's amazing:

And since you were so modest I'll link your pizza blog. This guy knows how to make a pizza, folks. http://ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com/

Really great stuff, @Aimless Ryan! Someday I'll attempt one of your clone recipes.

Edit: Seriously, the commitment level and attention to detail here is very impressive:

I want to make it clear that I don't particularly like Dei Fratelli crushed tomatoes. The only reason I use them is because I think they may be essentially the same product as the crushed tomatoes Tommy's uses for their sauce. Last time I ate at Tommy's, I did a little investigating in their dumpster. In their dumpster I found a box for Star Cross crushed tomatoes (see below). After I mentioned the details of the box on the Tommy's thread at pizzamaking.com, someone responded by saying Dei Fratelli may be the same product, since both products are packed by the Hirzel Canning Company of Toledo, Ohio.

Having gone through a few cans of Dei Fratelli crushed tomatoes, I feel pretty confident that they are very similar to the Star Cross crushed tomatoes (if they're not the same thing). Like I said, I don't think this tomato product is very good. But it's probably the right thing to use if you really want to clone Tommy's.


Star Cross crushed tomato box 1.

And here's something else I found in the dumpster, which I think is a very important part of cloning Tommy's. Usually it's very difficult to get pepperoni like this without buying an entire case (25 lbs), but PennMac breaks up cases of Ezzo pepperoni and repackages it in 1 lb bags. I'm not sure if the Ezzo pepperoni available from PennMac is GiAntonio or if it's some other Ezzo variety.


I did some dumpster diving at Tommy's and found that they use
Ezzo GiAntonio 38 mm pepperoni.

Tommy's menu indicates that their pizzas are available in sizes of 11", 13", and 15". However, if you order a 15" pizza at Tommy's, the pizza they bring you is only 14". And if you get a small box for your leftovers, the box is 10", not 11". This incorrect menu information is not an accident. It's not because Tommy's recently changed the sizes of their pizzas but haven't had a chance to update the menu. It's not because the pizzas shrink an inch while baking (because the pizzas don't shrink). Although I think their pizzas used to be 11", 13", and 15" once upon a time, their current menu's misrepresentation of sizes is clearly a deliberate attempt by Tommy's ownership to mislead their customers, and I have a big problem with that. You should too.

 

[biohacker]

I tried to like the pizza stone, but seem to have always had better results with one of those big metal round pizza pans with the holes in them?

 

[Aimless Ryan]

I use a stone even when I use pans. I only use pans when making styles that are shaped by the pan (like deep dish) or when I'm trying to clone a pizza I know bakes on a pan; like Tommy's in Upper Arlington, but not Tommy's two miles away, across from OSU.

 

[invertedisdead]

I also pizza...

 

[snackmaster]

I tried to like the pizza stone, but seem to have always had better results with one of those big metal round pizza pans with the holes in them?

My pizza enthusiast buddy starts on one of those pans and then moves to a stone for the last few minutes.

 

[Aimless Ryan]

I also pizza...

Did you make that? If so, then we're off to a very good restart of this thread. (Which you knew before me.)

 

[invertedisdead]

Yeah!

 

[Aimless Ryan]

Man, if you had only put that on a paper plate (or 2), it would be nearly impossible to tell which slice joint in New York or New Jersey it came from. 24-hour dough? Or very long, same-day, room-temperature ferment?

I hope mine look anywhere near that good.

 

[biohacker]

Yeah!

Vegan cheese is not real pizza!

 

[invertedisdead]

Man, if you had only put that on a paper plate (or 2), it would be nearly impossible to tell which slice joint in New York or New Jersey it came from. 24-hour dough? Or very long, same-day, room-temperature ferment?

I hope mine look anywhere near that good.

You're too kind Ryan! I believe that pie was an overnight cold ferment, though I've been messing with extended room temp proofing again lately too.

 

[duff]

That's a pretty cut there @invertedisdead!

Everyone likes pizza.

Damn, I had a cat that as soon as we'd open the lid, would jump on it.
I'd pick him up and he'd have pepperoni and red peppers attached to his claws.

I'm in Pittsburgh and we are lucky to have many great pizza joints.
Mineos, Aiello's, Fiori's, Frankstown Wood-Fired and Vincents are all classics.

 

[Aimless Ryan]

And PennMac (without having to pay ridiculous shipping costs)!

 

[duff]

I was at pennmac yesterday replenishing my olive oil supply!

 

[Aimless Ryan]

Have you ever followed the "Vinnie Pie" thread on pizzamaking.com? I was really into it (maybe two or three years ago), but then someone pissed me off and I've never been back to that thread.

EDIT: I just watched both of my New York style videos (Part I and Part II) for the first time since about last summer. I can do better than that, and I should do better than that. I still like the videos, though. Hopefully I can get my pal to do some more of this with me fairly soon (if I finally get adequate pain relief soon). If so, I suspect I may be able to edit a new video more effectively now.

 

[Aimless Ryan]

Quoting this because it's kinda buried in @vtac's post and it's amazing:


Really great stuff, @Aimless Ryan! Someday I'll attempt one of your clone recipes.

Edit: Seriously, the commitment level and attention to detail here is very impressive:

Oh yeah. Pizzamaking.com member Floridian did some dumpster diving at Tommy's last fall while he was in town for an OSU football game; first while I was with him at the Upper Arlington location, then the next day at the OSU location. Now we know exactly what brands of flour, tomato product, cheese, and pepperoni Tommy's uses. (The flour and cheese are Bellissimo or something; house brands of high gluten flour and provolone cheese.) We already knew they use Star Cross crushed tomatoes and Ezzo GiAntonio pepperoni from when I dumpster dived several years ago.

EDIT: I've been reading @invertedisdead's thread on pizzamaking.com for the last hour or so. I suspect he has been making pizza for significantly less time than I have, but the dude knows his shit/learns by teaching himself. Just as I did when there wasn't much useful pizzamaking information on the internet, he uses just about every pizza as an opportunity to learn something new. Which I think is uncommon with most members on that site.

I really like your style, man. Will you be my friend?

 

[biohacker]

So thanks to this thread i've been making pizza 2 nights in a row! Both have blown my mind! They aren't even close to connoisseur level since i've been using premade thin crusts, but other than that i've been going to town, and just been loving it. The other night I went with a spicy ground beef mix i've made, even though I typically enjoy veggie toppings, I like to make a dinner out of it and want the meat.

Now that I finally have proper internet access, I can watch videos!

I also have a propane gas oven, which I hate!

My issues in the past with dough is that I can never get it all out flat and thin.... I still need to edumacate myself, but i'm assuming olive oil and not flour yeah? Parchment paper? I just can never get it right and always have holes or thick areas.... a friend from work (an italian) had it down to a science... but i'd end up burning even with the stone, which is why I started with the thin aluminum pan with the holes like alot of pizza joints use. He always cranked the stove to 550f (max) and heated it for like an hour to get it scorching hot, then about 7-8 mins on the stone.

 

[Aimless Ryan]

I think this video is a great NY style stretching tutorial. I actually meant to do it this way, but for some reason I forgot. This guy can outstretch me any day because he does/did it for a living, I'm guessing in Brooklyn (and because I'm falling apart).

 

[biohacker]

Nice! I would butcher and massacre that thing though! lol I wonder why my italian buddy said ever flour always oil? Guess it depends on the style?

 

[Aimless Ryan]

I would never use oil except when baking on a pan. Even if I'm baking on a pan, I might not use oil. Oil is not what's needed to accomplish the objective with NY style or any other style that enters the oven on a peel. I'm not Italian, but neither are most of the people working in NY anymore. Although it can be a guiding factor, I don't consider Italian heritage to play any significant role in pizzamaking knowledge. Maybe 100 years ago, but not now.

To be clear, anything baked on a pan or screen is not NY style.

Just make or buy some dough and fool around with it. (I'd make, not buy.) Flour costs essentially nothing. Once a dough skin is stretched, though, don't try to wad it back up and reuse it, because that dough will never be the same as it was before stretching it the first time.

Another important step with NY style is to scale and round the dough immediately after mixing. A lot of home pizzamakers let their dough rise before dividing, scaling, and fermenting [again]. No one in New York does that; for very good reasons.

 

[biohacker]

Thanks Ryan! You are making me turn this into starting a new hobby! Love it!

I was going to ask about putting it all back together and starting from scratch so thanks for the fair warning!

Wow, I though homemade dough was supposed to be left to rise because of the yeast or something, so i'm learning alot here!

I'm such an ignorant newb.... since I just got my high speed internet I haven't even had a chance to watch your videos, but will soon! I have no idea what NY or chicago or detroit styles all mean but will soon!

Pizza has been my favourite food all of my life, even though I actually try to avoid wheat and grains these days.

I've made a meatzza..... not sure if that counts! Meat was the crust!

 

[duff]

Fucking awesome @biohacker

 

[Aimless Ryan]

You thought that because we're all taught the basics of breadmaking when we're young, through culture or something. Pizza isn't bread. (It is but it isn't.) NY style dough rises after it is divided and rounded, refrigerated, for up to 48 hours; sometimes longer, but I consider 48 hours perfect (if you use the right amount of yeast, which I didn't in the video). In NYC it's probably more common to use dough between 5 and 20 hours after mixing, due to the high cost of rent/space. (Three days' worth of dough requires space, which costs big money in NYC.)

 

[biohacker]

Thanks man, it was awesome, but obviously a messy eat, I think I have another one that I made out of cauliflower for crust....lemme dig for it!

 

[Aimless Ryan]

Thanks for helping get my brain started.

 

[biohacker]

Fack now I wish I snapped pics of the last two nights Za's! I still have some mini crusts for convenience in the cupboard, i'll take some next time.