Photos used without permission from FC and other sites

[codex064]

Honestly I think your self righteousness makes me more mad, than the fact that you took my photos without disclaiming or asking, using them in such a vague way (like you write in the description yllvape yet show all my custom glass as if they had anything to do with that) sure it is one thing, but furthermore I think my photos are not even good, I share them here on FC with early testing as a way of giving back to the community in a way I appreciated when I first joined here... They are messy poor quality photos for the most part, vague and random without context especially there, that I would not have posted in a photo heavy environment like that, it's like ugly? So it makes me question how well you do what you are doing, furthermore not pushing people to FC, not mentioning other artisans, but promoting certain mass-produced things... And then you have this reaction when called out on it, no graciousness or respect imo, you sound like a real piece of work and I really want to say worse to you lol

I don't mean to come off as self righteous. I'm just trying to do what I think is write for the industry i love.

As far as your custom glass i would have shared it whether it was there or not. It's not about your glass. And I don't mention other artisan things in the posts because they are going to get there own separate posts. Like I did with kgwoodcrafts and pharrow glass.

And you can say whatever you want. It's not going to hurt my feelings. Have a nice day.

Edit: i just wanted to say sorry again for coming off that way. I'm not trying to make any excuses but I have very bad anxiety and I'm not always the best at communicating because of that.

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

Basically all images on imgur are the internets property. That's the risk and reward in a nutshell. For what it's worth, I love the pics! Keep em coming!

 

[Grass Yes]

Basically all images on imgur are the internets property. That's the risk and reward in a nutshell.

This is not correct and nothing indicates this. In fact imgur directly refutes this:

All content is user submitted, and Imgur does not own the copyright for images uploaded to our site, thus cannot grant permission for their use.

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

This is not correct and nothing indicates this. In fact imgur directly refutes this:

Sure they can't grant permission. But that really doesn't stop it. So everyone has copyrights on their pics? I sure don't. This is very entertaining! I love the lounge!

 

[hotmeals]

I was going to suggest that FC NOT make a blanket rule that NO pictures from FC be allowed on any external site.

They can't anyway since they aren't the ones hosting them. When we post photos here we are sharing photos from other sites on FC.

This is not correct and nothing indicates this. In fact imgur directly refutes this:

All content is user submitted, and Imgur does not own the copyright for images uploaded to our site, thus cannot grant permission for their use.

From imgur's TOS:

USE OF IMGUR CONTENT​

By downloading an image or copying other user-generated content (UGC) from Imgur, you agree that you do not claim any rights to it. The following conditions apply:

• You may use UGC, our service, including without limitation, our App or Website, solely for personal, non-commercial purposes.
• You may use UGC for anything that qualifies as fair use under copyright law, for example journalism (news, comment, criticism, etc.), but please include an attribute ("Imgur" or "courtesy of Imgur") next to where it is displayed.
• You may not use UGC for non-journalistic commercial purposes.
• Your use of UGC is at your own risk. IMGUR MAKES NO WARRANTIES OF NON-INFRINGEMENT, and you will indemnify and hold Imgur harmless from any copyright infringement claims arising out of your use of the UGC. (See our general disclaimers below.)

 

[Grass Yes]

Sure they can't grant permission. But that really doesn't stop it. So everyone has copyrights on their pics? I sure don't. This is very entertaining! I love the lounge!

Yes you do have the copyright to your photos and videos. You can absolutely grant someone else the right to use them, but posting on the Internet, even if someone can copy them, does not give up those rights.

The remedy for someone violating your copyrights on the Internet is to file a DMCA takedown notice with the site, in this case Instagram.

 

[Flotsam]

Sure they can't grant permission. But that really doesn't stop it. So everyone has copyrights on their pics? I sure don't. This is very entertaining! I love the lounge!

I think this is so true! Funny story, I used to do a lot of Live Music Trading and one point had done a bunch of custom art for a few of the shows that i had. I guess technically the copyright was mine but i was still so surprised when i saw MY artwork on a bootleg copy of the show for sale that was on a Japanese bootleg seller site! I mean i guess i could have pressed the issue and where would that have gotten me? Not a battle i wanted to get into , but on the other hand i was sort of honored that my artwork was featured on something that was being sold.

Just to clarify my ethos on that. I never paid for shows that were being collected and i DO support those artists that i got recordings of by buying their recordings and there was always a prohibition of trading recordings of artists who did a live commercial recording for that date. and also unknown to many people the copyright rules for other countries are much different than the US especially regarding musical performance recordings! them selling the recording was NOT illegal in Japan.

My point is this is so hard to enforce, which is why i think we should give Codex064 some slack. He needs to chill a bit but his heart is in the right place, unlike those japanese bootleggers who used my artwork.

 

[codex064]

Yes you do have the copyright to your photos and videos. You can absolutely grant someone else the right to use them, but posting on the Internet, even if someone can copy them, does not give up those rights.

The remedy for someone violating your copyrights on the Internet is to file a DMCA takedown notice with the site, in this case Instagram.

Whats the remedy for a moderator that is abusing their power?

 

[hotmeals]

Yes you do have the copyright to your photos and videos. You can absolutely grant someone else the right to use them, but posting on the Internet, even if someone can copy them, does not give up those rights.

The remedy for someone violating your copyrights on the Internet is to file a DMCA takedown notice with the site, in this case Instagram.

No copyright is being violated. This absolutely falls under "fair use", but it would be good to make it clear that they are not his/her photos.

 

[Grass Yes]

No copyright is being violated. This absolutely falls under "fair use", but it would be good to make it clear that they are not his/her photos.

How does this possibly fall under fair use? Show me how this is transformative? Show me how the context makes it fair use? How is not substantially using the original? This concept is very often misunderstood in common usage but is quite clear in copyright law.

 

[Flotsam]

https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html

my understanding of fair use is that you can only use a snippet of something for instance with something like a movie. you can use a clip to do a movie review for instance. Or in the case of music it can be used as a derivative element in a new piece of music. Blatant copying or sampling is not allowed. But yes that word transformative is very much the case.

 

[hotmeals]

How does this possibly fall under fair use? Show me how this is transformative? Show me how the context makes it fair use? How is not substantially using the original? This concept is very often misunderstood in common usage but is quite clear in copyright law.

In my opinion it is not nearly as clear as you are trying to make it seem. I probably should not have said "absolutely" in my other post either. None of the things you mentioned are hard requirements for something to be considered fair use. One could argue that posting the photos to a different place for different people to see and comment on is sufficiently "transformative".

https://copyright.gov/fair-use/
https://copyright.gov/fair-use/fair-index.html
https://copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
https://m.facebook.com/help/337995452911154?helpref=search&query=fair us

 

[Grass Yes]

In my opinion it is not nearly as clear as you are trying to make it seem. None of the things you mentioned are hard requirements for something to be considered fair use. One could argue that posting the photos to a different place for different people to see and comment on is sufficiently "transformative".

https://copyright.gov/fair-use/
https://copyright.gov/fair-use/fair-index.html
https://copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
https://m.facebook.com/help/337995452911154?helpref=search&query=fair us

I encourage you to try this with works made by the Disney corporation. Let's see how long Star Wars stays up on your YouTube account.

 

[Flotsam]

In my opinion it is not nearly as clear as you are trying to make it seem. None of the things you mentioned are hard requirements for something to be considered fair use. One could argue that posting the photos to a different place for different people to see and comment on is sufficiently "transformative".

I suppose as an example you could make that case for instance if you collect wooden vapes that feature halogen heaters and then provided detailed analysis of how the designs of these differed. Your analysis would constitute the transformative process and it would be considered fair use. A simple collection of photos without any context does not constitute fair use.

Posting Star Wars on YouTube is not advised.

 

[codex064]

I just have to ask what was everyone's intention when they posted these pictures. It's for people to see them right. I don't really see what the big deal is if they see them here. Which anyone in the world can. Or if I help them see them on Instagram. I'm not taking credit for them I'm not getting anything out of this. Every time someone sees these pictures for the first time it could potentially spark interest and help these companies out. Why is that such a bad thing? Remember when vapman and Lotus went away. It was a sad time. It absolutely sucked. I can't afford to go out and buy all of these vaporizers so I'm just trying to help in a way that I can.

 

[hotmeals]

I encourage you to try this with works made by the Disney corporation. Let's see how long Star Wars stays up on your YouTube account.

That is not even close to the same thing. Star Wars has commercial value.

A simple collection of photos without any context does not constitute fair use.

Do you have a precedential ruling to back that up?

 

[Grass Yes]

That is not even close to the same thing. Star Wars has commercial value.

Why do you think corporations should have more protections than an individual?

 

[hotmeals]

Why do you think corporations should have more protections than an individual?

I didn't say that I did. Commercial value and intent is a major factor in determining fair use and copyright infringement. The way you've been talking I would expect you to know that. Reposting Star Wars without permission is automatically not fair use because the creators of Star Wars are selling it.

 

[Flotsam]

Do you have a precedential ruling to back that up?

No I'm not a lawyer nor do i ever want to become one, so no i have no precedent to quote. My background was strictly technical, so what i find really interesting on here are all the people that build cool shit or show off their really cool stuff.

I did have the job for a year or two about coordinating all our companies patent stuff. So someone would have their proposal for a patent they would give it to me and i would research prior art. Then with all that compiled i would go to the company lawyer and he would do the patent filing The reason i mention this is Patents, Copyrights and Trademarks are all somewhat related so as that lawyer would tell me and that is why i said what i did.

So when Puffco gets sued by Focus i find it a bit fascinating how that played out. But mostly on the technical side of it. Puffco won BTW. I just realized how i ramble & get off topic when i am really stoned LOL sorry everyone.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I don't mean to come off as self righteous. I'm just trying to do what I think is write for the industry i love.

Just trying to do what you think is right, that is completely self-righteous, so you know what's right? I don't see how what you're doing helps the industry at all frankly, random photos without info on a random Instagram page (taking advantage of other people, yeah I guess you fit right in with the industry unfortunately, people like you are ruining the industry I loved imo)

As far as your custom glass i would have shared it whether it was there or not. It's not about your glass.

Dude that's my fucking point, why are you showing my photos with my glass then?? Without any text, what the hell is the point, with a vape I didn't like, you also have other photos of mine without any context and one of a kind pieces that is useless for a random person to see on Instagram... Doesn't help the industry at all nope, I don't think you have any power or reach to do that either, and frankly I think you're pretty bad at it? Again, you chose some terrible photos on top of everything else

And I don't mention other artisan things in the posts because they are going to get there own separate posts. Like I did with kgwoodcrafts and pharrow glass.

Well it might be a noble pursuit to try to capture an encyclopedia of every single artisan thing and have specific things about it, your posts have no info, and if you're implying you're going to keep doing this with more exclusive photos of one of a kind items from other people, without asking permission, and continuing to use my photos even more photos of mine? Well seriously get fucked then lol

And you can say whatever you want. It's not going to hurt my feelings. Have a nice day.

Edit: i just wanted to say sorry again for coming off that way. I'm not trying to make any excuses but I have very bad anxiety and I'm not always the best at communicating because of that.

Great, I also have bad anxiety, you've triggered it so thanks for that buddy, I've got plenty of other issues going on and you've pretty much ruined my day... People have the power to control reactions and feeling sure, I'm not always so good at that, especially when dealing with another person who is similarly stubborn in a way that seems completely outrageous to me? But they seem to think they are in the right... I just think it's outrageous that you think that considering it's my photos, I think it's ridiculous that you still want to use them. I don't really want to hurt your feelings, but you should know you're not some saint fighting the good fight for the good of the community and industry... your actions are hurting others needlessly I might add

I just have to ask what was everyone's intention when they posted these pictures. It's for people to see them right. I don't really see what the big deal is if they see them here. Which anyone in the world can. Or if I help them see them on Instagram.

I already explained the intention, it is something special here in the FC community, it is like a small group of friends, even if it is public for anyone to find and see?

I can't fathom how you don't understand, that you don't see what the big deal is of then essentially stealing those photos and reposting them somewhere else, without any context again, without telling the people you took their photos, let alone asking their permission if they were okay with their photos being shared elsewhere this way...

Helping them see it on Instagram is also meaningless, you're just posting, uploading them to another server site... If we wanted them there we could have posted them there? You're taking the photos and posting them in a way that we did not intend, how do you not see how that is a shitty thing to do? Apply it to something else if that helps you...

The fact you don't see what the big deal is, is a huge part of the problem. It just shows how little you respect other people, how little empathy and consideration you have, it shows this is how you treat people.

I'm not taking credit for them I'm not getting anything out of this. Every time someone sees these pictures for the first time it could potentially spark interest and help these companies out.

They are on your page, that is taking credit, you are getting something out of this. You're clearly getting off on the idea of helping the industry in the way that you think you are... You refuse to change or see another side because you think you are the one who knows best... It is your page, and it sucks, but that is your credit...

Maybe in the instance of Angus I don't want to help this company out? You posted those photos without context of my pretty negative review here...

This is one thing just to send photos to someone, private messages etc, that are someone else's to share something directly. Even in a more public discord setting, it can be more okay than what you did, posting out of context photos with no info, publicly without permission or disclaimer etc.

Spark interest helping company out, what random people do you think are finding your Instagram and then knowing what they are seeing? I don't understand why you think this is such a service really, again you are providing next to no info and to me almost zero value at all. This is what you are fighting for?!?

Why is that such a bad thing? Remember when vapman and Lotus went away. It was a sad time. It absolutely sucked. I can't afford to go out and buy all of these vaporizers so I'm just trying to help in a way that I can.

It's not a bad thing when you do it well... That's what we're all here doing, we're helping our favorite companies out and our favorite products, we post here with each other.. if we wanted to use Instagram this way we would? Why is it a service for you to then take our stuff and post it there without any context or credits??

So you're not helping, you're doing the opposite, you're not saving vapes from being discontinued, you're just annoying. You took my stuff and posted it in a way I don't want it to be done... I am telling you that, if you don't remove my photos, if you use more of my photos, that makes you a real jerk plain and simple. Maybe it makes me a jerk not wanting you to do this, but I feel like that is my right... I can't literally stop you, but I'm not going to be quiet about it

 

[codex064]

Just trying to do what you think is right, that is completely self-righteous, so you know what's right? I don't see how what you're doing helps the industry at all frankly, random photos without info on a random Instagram page (taking advantage of other people, yeah I guess you fit right in with the industry unfortunately, people like you are ruining the industry I loved imo)



Dude that's my fucking point, why are you showing my photos with my glass then?? Without any text, what the hell is the point, with a vape I didn't like, you also have other photos of mine without any context and one of a kind pieces that is useless for a random person to see on Instagram... Doesn't help the industry at all nope, I don't think you have any power or reach to do that either, and frankly I think you're pretty bad at it? Again, you chose some terrible photos on top of everything else



Well it might be a noble pursuit to try to capture an encyclopedia of every single artisan thing and have specific things about it, your posts have no info, and if you're implying you're going to keep doing this with more exclusive photos of one of a kind items from other people, without asking permission, and continuing to use my photos even more photos of mine? Well seriously get fucked then lol



Great, I also have bad anxiety, you've triggered it so thanks for that buddy, I've got plenty of other issues going on and you've pretty much ruined my day... People have the power to control reactions and feeling sure, I'm not always so good at that, especially when dealing with another person who is similarly stubborn in a way that seems completely outrageous to me? But they seem to think they are in the right... I just think it's outrageous that you think that considering it's my photos, I think it's ridiculous that you still want to use them. I don't really want to hurt your feelings, but you should know you're not some saint fighting the good fight for the good of the community and industry... your actions are hurting others needlessly I might add



I already explained the intention, it is something special here in the FC community, it is like a small group of friends, even if it is public for anyone to find and see?

I can't fathom how you don't understand, that you don't see what the big deal is of then essentially stealing those photos and reposting them somewhere else, without any context again, without telling the people you took their photos, let alone asking their permission if they were okay with their photos being shared elsewhere this way...

Helping them see it on Instagram is also meaningless, you're just posting, uploading them to another server site... If we wanted them there we could have posted them there? You're taking the photos and posting them in a way that we did not intend, how do you not see how that is a shitty thing to do? Apply it to something else if that helps you...

The fact you don't see what the big deal is, is a huge part of the problem. It just shows how little you respect other people, how little empathy and consideration you have, it shows this is how you treat people.



They are on your page, that is taking credit, you are getting something out of this. You're clearly getting off on the idea of helping the industry in the way that you think you are... You refuse to change or see another side because you think you are the one who knows best... It is your page, and it sucks, but that is your credit...

Maybe in the instance of Angus I don't want to help this company out? You posted those photos without context of my pretty negative review here...

This is one thing just to send photos to someone, private messages etc, that are someone else's to share something directly. Even in a more public discord setting, it can be more okay than what you did, posting out of context photos with no info, publicly without permission or disclaimer etc.

Spark interest helping company out, what random people do you think are finding your Instagram and then knowing what they are seeing? I don't understand why you think this is such a service really, again you are providing next to no info and to me almost zero value at all. This is what you are fighting for?!?



It's not a bad thing when you do it right... That's what we're all here doing, we're helping our favorite companies out and our favorite products, we post here with each other.. if we wanted to use Instagram this way we would? Why is it a service for you to then take our stuff and post it there without any context??

So you're not helping, you're doing the opposite, you're not saving vapes from being discontinued, you're just annoying. You took my stuff and posted it in a way I don't want it to be done... I am telling you that, if you don't remove my photos, if you use more of my photos, that makes you a real jerk plain and simple. Maybe it makes me a jerk not wanting you to do this, but I feel like that is my right... I can't literally stop you, but I'm not going to be quiet about it

Thanks for your feedback. Have a nice day.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Thanks for your feedback. Have a nice day.

I hope you actually read this all above and really think about it, maybe talk to other people about it, and maybe take action to change... You already know you ruined my day, so again I hope you become a better person somehow, it would be great if you actually did benefit the industry instead of continuing to make it worse like you are now

 

[codex064]

I hope you actually read this and think about it, maybe talk to other people about it, and maybe take action to change... You already know you ruined my day, so again I hope you become a better person somehow, it would be great if you actually did benefit the industry instead of continuing to make it worse like you are now

I read it. And I've talked to many people about this. It is an extremely small few that are mad about it.

 

[Chainfish]

Just my 2 cents - Firstly think some may need to think about their manner when conversing with others, I'm sure we all suffer from mixing with cockwombles in reality and come here to get away from everyday bullshit and drama and discuss our common interest in a courteous manner.

On the issues of legality, I neither know nor care, outside of Natural Law it's generally methods of control

I think for someone to publish others images without at least credit to owner is a bit shitty (imo). I understand those that do want permission and that there may be differing reasons why (not my circus, not my monkeys) Personally have no issue if credited (as Chainfish, because, where I have zero respect for legalities, the Filth in my Country are sticklers about it)

I do like the idea of a library of vapes of sorts. And when comes to the Eds Woodscents, would have loved if he had kept a library with each one complete with serial number, date crafted etc. on his website. I wouldn't like someone posting others photos on a site for clicks or whatever the fuck it's done for, zero info or credit to photographer/maker

I think I may have taken a while to write, and this message may now be redundant, or, maybe worse

 

[Shit Snacks]

I read it. And I've talked to many people about this. It is an extremely small few that are mad about it.

Okay, bc I think the lens of empathy is an important one, because it's not as simple as being mad about it... I also think if you actually cared about doing the service for the community and industry, you would want to make everyone happy, you would want to make it better by listening on how you could make everyone happy... You would not want to do things that actively do the opposite?

For example there are many photos of mine that I might actually be happy for you to post, with or without text or credit possibly, I would be happy to help contribute potential text or context as well, but you curating my own photos this way (imo poorly) is just so unbelievably rude I still can't get over it lol