Phase3 Vaporizers

[madhockeydad]

Riser is another term for an adapter with the same diameter on both sides. Also called an adapter.

 

[BakedDiogenes]

Do you know what size basket screen ? I have a spare riser I could put to good use. I see DDave offers these

https://www.ddavemods.com/store/p18/14mm_Basket_Screen_Refill_Pack.html

I use the basket screens that come with the Alpha Underdogs in an OGB riser. Works well for me.

 

[madhockeydad]

The ones I use are old from some vape I don’t recall. I keep all the screens over the years for solving these riddles!!

 

[madhockeydad]

Closeups of the lineup serving up tasty hits.

https://imgur.com/a/3vjmZwR

 

[Feelingmedicated]

After trying various methods of getting the head in the coil I settled on using a hammer to tap it in which was actually quite easy. First impressions are it does what my b1 was doing for me but with a bit more flavour and lower temps by about 30f, I use a gimido pid with the e5cc. Really keen for a z8 now.

 

[tgvp]

But I get enough time to charge my credit card, I guess.

Wow, this my friend, is an important reminder! Even if by any chance, I happened to be passing by at the right moment for the pre order, I would have missed the slot due to an empty credit card! Now the CC is capped, I added an alert to this thread and started following the IG account to be ready for next round

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Herb at 470F with the SX

https://imgur.com/a/QgwL2P4

 

[madhockeydad]

Lots and lots of side by side testing and then a bunch of thermal engineering background and I think I have some observations to share. Tested one at 452 and the other at 520 (then 512 and then 502). Switched them around. Then tested both at 520, 508, and 492 - alternating hits and which one I started with.

First result - very high!!!! Make that super high. I like this result (notice this result is independent of the vape!!!)

Second - liked them both.

Third - there is a difference. Here is the best I have to describe it:

Z8 - provides a more consistent delivery of heat over the hit so the hit is more consistent from start to finish for a given temp.

SX - really heats up super fast and then seems to taper

Reading about the materials I think this is what is happening : Zirconia has low thermal conductivity and blocks heat. Meaning it should take longer to heat up but then be more stable and give up it's heat more slowly. While drawing this is a good thing because if the injector loses heat then it becomes a sink and will draw in heat from the coil instead of passing it to the air.

Stainless gives up it's heat (thermal conductivity) much faster so it should loss heat and then it begins storing heat from the coil and should transfer heat slower to the air as the hit progresses and it losses heat.

Now I'm not a thermal engineer so some of this may be incorrect from an engineering description but I think that's my best idea of how they are different for me (qualitative experience) and possibly why that happens.

In either case, these are great vapes and honestly these differences are very subtle. It took me two days to figure out how to even describe it.

Enjoy,

 

[BakedDiogenes]

Came across these:

Zirconia Beads, Partially Stabilized with Yttria, Sintered

Zirconia Beads, Partially Stabilized with Yttria, Sintered Food Contact Tests Certificate issued by TUV Rheinland Learn more: Technical Comparison of Different Micro-Milling Media YTZP yttria zirconia beads are made of high-grade and nanometer Yttria Stabilized Zirconia (YSZ) which is proudly...

www.msesupplies.com

Can’t remember if @invertedisdead mentioned trying zirconia beads, but an all white heat system seems dope for some reason. Question is, would it work?

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Came across these:

Zirconia Beads, Partially Stabilized with Yttria, Sintered

Zirconia Beads, Partially Stabilized with Yttria, Sintered Food Contact Tests Certificate issued by TUV Rheinland Learn more: Technical Comparison of Different Micro-Milling Media YTZP yttria zirconia beads are made of high-grade and nanometer Yttria Stabilized Zirconia (YSZ) which is proudly...

www.msesupplies.com

Can’t remember if @invertedisdead mentioned trying zirconia beads, but an all white heat system seems dope for some reason. Question is, would it work?

Zirconium Dioxide Properties, Production and Applications - Matmatch

Zirconium dioxide, also known as zirconia and zirconium oxide, is a crystalline metal oxide that has found its way into the ceramic industry. Read more about how zirconia is one the most commonly used materials in various industries and application areas.

matmatch.com

"
Zirconium dioxide has a thermal conductivity of 2 W/(m·K), which makes it perfect for situations where heat needs to be contained.
"
so it's more like borosilicate glass (around 1W/m*K) , and boro beads are much cheaper....

(Difference in thermal conductivity between zirconia oxide and yttria stabilized zirconia is negligible for these purposes)

 

[Haze Mister]

I saw somewhere that zirconia has thermal expansion comparable to metals?! I don't think it will be the best ball material...

 

[Oden]

Came across these:

Zirconia Beads, Partially Stabilized with Yttria, Sintered

Zirconia Beads, Partially Stabilized with Yttria, Sintered Food Contact Tests Certificate issued by TUV Rheinland Learn more: Technical Comparison of Different Micro-Milling Media YTZP yttria zirconia beads are made of high-grade and nanometer Yttria Stabilized Zirconia (YSZ) which is proudly...

www.msesupplies.com

Can’t remember if @invertedisdead mentioned trying zirconia beads, but an all white heat system seems dope for some reason. Question is, would it work?

A nice person on Troy's discord bought zircon and sic beads by the kilo.
It's gotten a lot of requests, and I'll take it for my SX head.
This guy already uses zircon balls in his ceroma head, and he was able to lower his temperature by 100°
I can't wait to test my SX with these balls

 

[BakedDiogenes]

A nice person on Troy's discord bought zircon and sic beads by the kilo.
It's gotten a lot of requests, and I'll take it for my SX head.
This guy already uses zircon balls in his ceroma head, and he was able to lower his temperature by 100°
I can't wait to test my SX with these balls

I saw that comment and that’s what set me to looking for the zirconia balls.

I really have no reason to exchange media, but it did pique my interest.

 

[Cheebsy]

We definately need @invertedisdead opinion here. Personally, I can't see the point of using zirconia balls as it's thermal properties are very similar to Boro. Iirc that's one of the reasons that zirconia was selected for the body, to try to limit the amount of energy lost to the bowl through the joint.

I'm not well versed enough in material science to compare the properties of each unfortunately.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

InV1.8 will be made from zirconia ceramic which is thermally the closest material to glass possible, but with much increased durability to reliably handle the coil contraction.

 

[Alan]

Has anyone ever tried 24k gold beads? The air flow will be better than through solid spheres, and with more heat transfer surface area. Maybe the cost is too much?

 

[Haze Mister]

Dealer baller

 

[Cheebsy]

Was that for my benefit @Abele Rizieri Ferrari ? Thank you, buuut...

We're not discussing the hardness here though, this is about the thermal properties of the material. @invertedisdead found out long ago that corundum is a better material for the balls than Boro, which, as per your quote, is very close to the thermal properties of zirconia. So, it seems sensible to me to assume that if rubys > Boro then rubys > zirconia for the heat exchanger. I'd love to be schooled if this is incorrect though

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Thermal properties aren't all about hardness though?

I'm not well versed enough in material science to compare the properties of each unfortunately.

^^ This goed for me as well though

 

[Farid]

Thermal properties aren't all about hardness though?

Completely different properties

 

[lazylathe]

This may help!
Best thermally conductive materials!

https://thermtest.com/thermal-resources/top-10-resources/top-10-thermally-conductive-materials

And this one for gemstones

Gemstone Thermal Properties - International Gem Society

Non-destructive tests are critical for gemologists trying to identify gems. Learn how measuring thermal properties, especially thermal inertia, can help.

www.gemsociety.org

 

[invertedisdead]

We definately need @invertedisdead opinion here. Personally, I can't see the point of using zirconia balls as it's thermal properties are very similar to Boro. Iirc that's one of the reasons that zirconia was selected for the body, to try to limit the amount of energy lost to the bowl through the joint.

I'm not well versed enough in material science to compare the properties of each unfortunately.

Yeah zirconia beads is not really going to improve anything.

IMHO this is one of the reasons the ball vape did not become very popular until I created the ruby ball vape. The Glass Symphony came out in 2017, but it definitely wasn’t super popular; the ball vape really only blew up after this thread was created. Zirconia will be similar to glass and thus have a low heat transfer rate. Theoretically reducing the heat transfer could possibly improve flavor by creating more of a ramping evaporation curve though. But proper temperature balancing would probably get you there anyways.

And I know people don’t want to hear this because misunderstanding the physics allows brands to sell a bunch of stuff, but lowering the temperature on the PID controller only denotes a more efficient heater, the vaporization temp of the cannabis is not actually changing just because the bead material changes.

It would be like claiming water boils at a different temperature in an aluminum pot versus a stainless steel pot because the pot is more thermally conductive. Now the water might come to a boil faster in the aluminum pot, but the boiling/evaporation temperature is not changing.

Also you want the bead to be more conductive than the housing, as the housing does not heat evenly itself due to being an insulator. Now ZPRO is only zirconia, but it’s not a ball vape, so there are different mechanisms in place there that allow the performance to be supercharged.

Has anyone ever tried 24k gold beads? The air flow will be better than through solid spheres, and with more heat transfer surface area. Maybe the cost is too much?

Yep, I first discovered the benefits of using beads in 2020 with my Vapor Wand, I’ve just been waiting to see if anybody else would figure it out lol. There’s actually scientific literature on this. They are considerably more expensive though. I’ve got some sapphire ones coming with my next order.

Never used gold beads though I did look for them, I couldn’t find any that weren’t plated copper in my searches. This line of thinking is basically what led to create InVerzion3, maybe one day it will see a release!

 

[tinctorus]

490 on the SX is pretty tasty, I did a hit lastnight starting inhale at 490, and pulled until the PID read 510. Got so much flavor.

Can’t speak towards PID difference. But having a live readout of the coils *actual* temp on the Auber 300B is absolutely essential to how I understand and use it.

You need a pid with rs845 communication

Also fwiw my experience with the Zirconia beads has been great, as was stated I dropped my Temps 100 deg from the ruby I was using and I find the flavor much better

I also put them on my home made Dani ball vape, they seem to dump the heat really quickly when you pull air across them but they recharge that heat very quickly as well, I assume that's just the nature of ceramics as I'm no scientist I can't say for sure what the reason they work so well is

I mean hardness and ease of machining can't be the only reason you made the head from this material

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Now ZPRO is only zirconia, but it’s not a ball vape, so there are different mechanisms in place there that allow the performance to be supercharged.

 

[ValleyVapes]

Can you share the potential timeline you expect the zpro being released?