Designed in California, made where?
Phase3 Vaporizers
- Thread starter invertedisdead
- Start date
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
I’m super excited to try this injector. The 1.7 is great. I set it higher last night up to 560 on my Dc snd it produced instant tasty milky hits. Moved it down to 518 and it’s incredible.
Cost is driven by many things. I fully appreciate and understand all of us have different budgets. That’s an important personal concern each of us answers when buying equipment. I hope this is priced so he makes some money. He has put in a lot of time and effort.
I don’t think a discussion about price reflects on the effort and work that’s gone into this or the results we will get. I’m focused on the performance and I’m fortunate to be able to order.
Can’t wait to try it.
Cost is driven by many things. I fully appreciate and understand all of us have different budgets. That’s an important personal concern each of us answers when buying equipment. I hope this is priced so he makes some money. He has put in a lot of time and effort.
I don’t think a discussion about price reflects on the effort and work that’s gone into this or the results we will get. I’m focused on the performance and I’m fortunate to be able to order.
Can’t wait to try it.
Zuhdj
Charles Mingus
I'm souper excited to be a part of the feedback process here. I loved my 1.7 (until I squeezed it to death with my bare fingers). This package seems like it'll be a more optimized, more efficient, and much more durable version of that.
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
My first 1.7 I broke trying to get the coil on. Sent the coil to invertedisdead and paid to get a new one for. My DIY skills are lacking. I treat it now like a super fragile piece because I want it to last. I’m looking forward to a more durable material. Other than that I love the 1.7.
Cheebsy
Microbe minion
IMO 1.7 has no rivals, until the 1.8 is a reality I suspect. The 1.7 was very open and to think that the 1.8 is going to be more open still is brilliant. Coupled with a housing that is as inert as glass and super strong I think it's a recipe for immense satisfaction. I hope to be using an inVersion, or should it now be a phase3, device for many years to come.
Zuhdj
Charles Mingus
Agreed. I'm hoping it'll be my daily driver (I won't need too much hope haha) as the b-0 uses too much herb for the results I want and it doesn't taste SUPER great like the 1.7 did. The 1.7 tasted so good that my GF finally understood what I meant by the flavor of herb lol
Realistically these are under-priced. The truth is a lot of the brands the community adored didn't really know how to price stuff right, that's why so many favorites went out of business...
I'm into other hobbies too of course and I can't think of another industry where the boutique artisan products actually sell for less than the mass market stuff? Bianchi isn't trying to compete with the Walmart bike section. Then folks wonder why the Mighty is still the number one recommended vape? I mean, seriously? Nobody has a dollar to advertise and the vape community wonders why its stuck in this box that more people aren't embracing? You could spend more on a mass market toaster oven than these products cost.
This thread is evidence that the entire time I worked on these was a continual effort to make them more affordable.
Every time I made them more affordable it gets under cut by something cheaper.
Does the vape community not see the problem with "artisan" vapes having less value than mass market portables? Do they not see that this entire industry will be swallowed whole by copycat imports with zero ideas in the next 2 years if this doesn't change? Just look at our neighbors in the concentrate gear industry and the glass pipe industry if you don't see the writing on the wall.
People claim to want innovation, but it costs more money to develop innovative products. Money which comes from turning a profit.
Furthermore, this isn't just an investment into a single product, it's an investment into someone with hundreds of vape concepts. People in my circle will vouch for me that this is just a small taste of what's in my portfolio. But I need a foundation with which to introduce these other ideas. So it makes the most sense to continue on the path I started.
I could easily ask how many of the others truly know anything about vaporization?
I think the guy who waited all the way until his seventh iteration to even start selling them is the last one trying to take advantage of anyone.
Luckily it looked to really just be one single person on Reddit shouting down. I'm not really phased by it. I guess the part that bothers me is the top comment saying its molded, which implies he didn't even read the second sentence of the product page. It clearly says these are CNC machined with diamond tooling. It's by far the most expensive material that's ever been used in a ball vape.
I already made affordable glass versions, people loved them, they just aren't ultra durable long term as I would want any of my products to be. This is the only real suitable alternative. I really don't see the fault in charging more for a more durable product that will last longer. It doesn't even seem like a real criticism. I mean, I literally lose profit on my "upsale" but offer it as a convenience to customers because I care.
Here's the facts:
It's physically impossible for me to compete on the low end with companies who have already invested millions of dollars into manufacturing equipment. And/Or companies operating out of Southeast Asia with drastically lower costs of doing business.
So I'm going to make high end gear for those who can appreciate it. It's understandable that some people won't like the price. That's just life, man I remember wanting a Cloud Evo sooooooooo freakin' bad when I was like 21, but I never had the money either.
There's a lot of people new to vaping that haven't embraced the stages of the journey. I remember my first PID vape, I was so nervous to spend $300 whole dollars on a vape. It was a lot of money for me at the time. But I was actually wasting more money on herb in the long run with unsatisfying vaporizers.
Let me tell a brief story:
In my teenage years we switched from CDs to MP3. I really wanted an iPod, but the truth is I couldn't even afford a RiO.
After going through probably a dozen different mp3 players over some years, in 2008 I finally saved up enough to buy a real iPod.
I still use that iPod to this day.
A saying I often use is "You get what you pay for. Not always. But usually."
Anyone who thinks this is too expensive should wait until someone copies it. That person will actually be rewarded and praised for doing so, cause that's the world we're living in.
It depends on how much support the project receives as the quantity has a massive effect on the unit cost.
Ideally, Japan.
My prices are way too low to build these in America. Which I think is disappointing, but ~9% month over month inflation here makes it harder and harder to compete.
I just wanted to remind that this one is downsized from the 1.7 (and other injectors) and uses a 14MM fitting for 14MM glass adapters. The reason why is to be more efficient with smaller amounts of material, while still being able to accommodate around .25g on the higher end. Also to facillitate faster extractions and to keep the flavor fresher between reloads. The CouchLog bowl would work for a deeper option, but there will be a bowl included with all the sets!
Well said!
Also, I have plenty of other future ideas that have potential to be more price conscious if I can get to that point, but this desktop is really my most personal project.
The overall goal/image/mission of this brand is going to be centered around this type of high purity meets high performance concept.
I'm into other hobbies too of course and I can't think of another industry where the boutique artisan products actually sell for less than the mass market stuff? Bianchi isn't trying to compete with the Walmart bike section. Then folks wonder why the Mighty is still the number one recommended vape? I mean, seriously? Nobody has a dollar to advertise and the vape community wonders why its stuck in this box that more people aren't embracing? You could spend more on a mass market toaster oven than these products cost.
This thread is evidence that the entire time I worked on these was a continual effort to make them more affordable.
Every time I made them more affordable it gets under cut by something cheaper.
Does the vape community not see the problem with "artisan" vapes having less value than mass market portables? Do they not see that this entire industry will be swallowed whole by copycat imports with zero ideas in the next 2 years if this doesn't change? Just look at our neighbors in the concentrate gear industry and the glass pipe industry if you don't see the writing on the wall.
People claim to want innovation, but it costs more money to develop innovative products. Money which comes from turning a profit.
Furthermore, this isn't just an investment into a single product, it's an investment into someone with hundreds of vape concepts. People in my circle will vouch for me that this is just a small taste of what's in my portfolio. But I need a foundation with which to introduce these other ideas. So it makes the most sense to continue on the path I started.
I could easily ask how many of the others truly know anything about vaporization?
I think the guy who waited all the way until his seventh iteration to even start selling them is the last one trying to take advantage of anyone.
Luckily it looked to really just be one single person on Reddit shouting down. I'm not really phased by it. I guess the part that bothers me is the top comment saying its molded, which implies he didn't even read the second sentence of the product page. It clearly says these are CNC machined with diamond tooling. It's by far the most expensive material that's ever been used in a ball vape.
I already made affordable glass versions, people loved them, they just aren't ultra durable long term as I would want any of my products to be. This is the only real suitable alternative. I really don't see the fault in charging more for a more durable product that will last longer. It doesn't even seem like a real criticism. I mean, I literally lose profit on my "upsale" but offer it as a convenience to customers because I care.
Here's the facts:
It's physically impossible for me to compete on the low end with companies who have already invested millions of dollars into manufacturing equipment. And/Or companies operating out of Southeast Asia with drastically lower costs of doing business.
So I'm going to make high end gear for those who can appreciate it. It's understandable that some people won't like the price. That's just life, man I remember wanting a Cloud Evo sooooooooo freakin' bad when I was like 21, but I never had the money either.
There's a lot of people new to vaping that haven't embraced the stages of the journey. I remember my first PID vape, I was so nervous to spend $300 whole dollars on a vape. It was a lot of money for me at the time. But I was actually wasting more money on herb in the long run with unsatisfying vaporizers.
Let me tell a brief story:
In my teenage years we switched from CDs to MP3. I really wanted an iPod, but the truth is I couldn't even afford a RiO.
After going through probably a dozen different mp3 players over some years, in 2008 I finally saved up enough to buy a real iPod.
I still use that iPod to this day.
A saying I often use is "You get what you pay for. Not always. But usually."
Anyone who thinks this is too expensive should wait until someone copies it. That person will actually be rewarded and praised for doing so, cause that's the world we're living in.
It depends on how much support the project receives as the quantity has a massive effect on the unit cost.
Ideally, Japan.
My prices are way too low to build these in America. Which I think is disappointing, but ~9% month over month inflation here makes it harder and harder to compete.
I just wanted to remind that this one is downsized from the 1.7 (and other injectors) and uses a 14MM fitting for 14MM glass adapters. The reason why is to be more efficient with smaller amounts of material, while still being able to accommodate around .25g on the higher end. Also to facillitate faster extractions and to keep the flavor fresher between reloads. The CouchLog bowl would work for a deeper option, but there will be a bowl included with all the sets!
Well said!
Also, I have plenty of other future ideas that have potential to be more price conscious if I can get to that point, but this desktop is really my most personal project.
The overall goal/image/mission of this brand is going to be centered around this type of high purity meets high performance concept.
Zuhdj
Charles Mingus
Always love your perspectives! I'm so excited to see what other ideas you'll have. I'm sure, as more people get their hands on these things, it'll blow up some. It'll give Phase 3 and the Inv1.8 more credibility. A lot of people who aren't on FC have never even heard of you or this thread so they think it's just corporate Chinese crap. They don't know lol. There's really no alternative to the Inv1.8 out right now. There's nothing being produced with the microdosing capability of a log AND power of a ball vape AND the flavor of a lotus. Nothing except this Inv1.8
TLDR: fuck the haters. They don't know what they're saying.
TheThriftDrifter
Land of the long vapor cloud
An inspiration
A prince with so much to give
Inverted is dead
Up against the wall
Fights on like a spartan king
Inverted is dead
The mountain is high
Yet the emperor is tough
Inverted is dead
May treasures rain down
To fill your wallet with gold
Inverted is rich
A prince with so much to give
Inverted is dead
Up against the wall
Fights on like a spartan king
Inverted is dead
The mountain is high
Yet the emperor is tough
Inverted is dead
May treasures rain down
To fill your wallet with gold
Inverted is rich
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
Support builds with exposure!! Those of us lucky to get on the 1.7 love it (loved it if it broke already - sad face). I'm along for the ride and adventure. Love the poem!! Be rich in all things important in life!!
An inspiration
A prince with so much to give
Inverted is dead
Up against the wall
Fights on like a spartan king
Inverted is dead
The mountain is high
Yet the emperor is tough
Inverted is dead
May treasures rain down
To fill your wallet with gold
Inverted is rich
Wow I'm truly honored to be gifted some of Thrifter's FC famous High-ku's!!
Thanks buddy!
Man I'm totally digging the zen vibe in this thread right now, I might need one of those little desktop waterfalls
If it was corporate Chinese crap way more people would be into it
Regardless, I'm pleased with how things are going and for the opportunity to do it!
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
More drama = more hype = more sales.. Let them complain about how sour is the grape ! Looks like an awesome concept,ceramic zirconia is awesome material,also designed by an awesome dude !How better that 3 times awesome can it get ?
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
a lot, so that means the mass of the beads will be higher than the Zirconia cover? and the Zirconia is so expensive material, if the cover can weight less, even way less, than the beads, why can't use SS316L and sell a lot of them in a reduce price? Even Ti is cheaper than this magically material eh? the design is so clever, you can sell a lot of them if using cheaper material for the cover... I really like this design.... Glass Symphony the safer way has BEVER been closer.
if the cover weighs enough, add this detail to your selling page, I'd suggest. It's definately something safer to handle other than glass, between the ELEV8R and the GS
and yeah, as you mentioned @invertedisdead the K conductivity value of Zirconia is smaller than Titanium even, it's really something different... and unbreakable right?
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Zuhdj
Charles Mingus
The real key factor is purity in the airpath. This whole project was essentially meant to be A small form factor GS. that's why previous Inverzions have been quartz and glass. The ceramic will give a similar level of purity in flavor without the compromise of durability.
Cheebsy
Microbe minion
Also, a more conductive housing material will lose an amount of energy to the bowl making the bowl harder to handle and adding some conduction. The 1.7 never made the bowl uncomfortable to touch and was as close to pure convection as can be. My 1.7 was one of the quartz ones and it had a really small contact area with the bowl, much smaller than the elev8r by comparison. I think the Boro ones had a slightly longer joint for added stability.
Zuhdj
Charles Mingus
I'm in the same boat. My 1.7 never made the bowl hot (in the 2 days I had it before it shattered). The b-0 I got as a replacement makes the bowl burn me if I don't pick it up from the bottom. And it gets stuck in the bowl a lot. The design and material of the Inv1.8 seems like it's going to solve both those issues
madhockeydad
Art is beauty
The issue of heating of the bowl and with it complimentary conduction are a part of the ball vape experience if you want it to be. I prefer not. There are those though that even like metal bowls and heat soak the bowl before taking a hit. This increases the mix of convection and conduction happening and I imagine (I don't do this) makes for a bigger and more intense hit.
Now with the 1.7 I can produce near instant milky clouds in a glass bowl without the extra heat and at lower temps. I can't take huge rips either so having a small amount and being able to go thru it using convection works best for my draw, lung capacity, and personal preference. That's a reason why I'm a supporter here as I've explored options (ti, stainless, and other glass ones) - I find that this design hits a sweet spot for efficiency, flavor, and convenience in terms of the weight.
Daily I use two ball vapes - the 1.7 and a DIY TiTi. With with the TiTi I prefer a pure convection setup. I use glass bowls. I don't heat soak and I run at lower temps.
I'm excited for another non-metal injector!!! I really like the innovation and thought that invertedisdead puts into the work and I appreciate the deep knowledge and experience gained!!
In terms of injectors sticking - for me they both stick though the TI sticks more as it seats deeper. Also, I think the build up of resins on the inside of the glass leads to the sticking though expansion may have a role to play. When bowls are clean, I find almost no sticking. Also, instead of pulling straight up with the injectors, I tend to rock it a little bit side to side and then slowly lift to see if the bowl is sticking. This is my #1 way of breaking bowls. I could always hold the bowl which I try and remember to do.
Now with the 1.7 I can produce near instant milky clouds in a glass bowl without the extra heat and at lower temps. I can't take huge rips either so having a small amount and being able to go thru it using convection works best for my draw, lung capacity, and personal preference. That's a reason why I'm a supporter here as I've explored options (ti, stainless, and other glass ones) - I find that this design hits a sweet spot for efficiency, flavor, and convenience in terms of the weight.
Daily I use two ball vapes - the 1.7 and a DIY TiTi. With with the TiTi I prefer a pure convection setup. I use glass bowls. I don't heat soak and I run at lower temps.
I'm excited for another non-metal injector!!! I really like the innovation and thought that invertedisdead puts into the work and I appreciate the deep knowledge and experience gained!!
In terms of injectors sticking - for me they both stick though the TI sticks more as it seats deeper. Also, I think the build up of resins on the inside of the glass leads to the sticking though expansion may have a role to play. When bowls are clean, I find almost no sticking. Also, instead of pulling straight up with the injectors, I tend to rock it a little bit side to side and then slowly lift to see if the bowl is sticking. This is my #1 way of breaking bowls. I could always hold the bowl which I try and remember to do.
Thanks for the kind words!
The Zirconia housing will weigh more than the equivalent glass, quartz, or titanium housing due to its high density. Stainless steel has the highest density of this group.
SS316L would be easy to do, that's what the InV2 proto was made from, but I just don't think it truly hits on all of the intentions of this concept, even if it would allow me to sell a lot more units. Zirconia is expensive but I figure I might as well go all the way since I've already been tinkering with this for almost 3 years. It's really the only material that makes sense as a genuine alternative to glass/quartz.
And yes titanium is a lot cheaper as it doesn't use diamond tools to process. The materials cost is only one fraction of what the end cost is based on here, the processing costs to run million dollar mills with diamond bits is higher than the material itself.
Zirconia is not completely unbreakable but it's the most durable ceramic for this purpose by far.
That's exactly right, I wanted to take the best parts of the GS and shrink them down substantially.
The G43 which came before me sort of did this, but it had some issues from the under-powered heater.
This is also correct!
The joint length on the 1.8 is right in between the quartz 1.7 and the glass 1.7.
Long enough to seat well inside the bowl for comfort/safety, but short enough to limit the contact area.
Also the screen position in 1.8 rides a little higher than 1.7 to further limit that conduction transfer.
Exactly, nothing wrong with conduction if that's what you're going for.
I played around with varying amounts of conduction through different desktop designs, but for a home plugin I find them most compelling in a pure convection layout.
I figure that were heading into an era where most people want portables, so a new desktop has to be intriguing and different enough to still be worth it. I still think we're quite a long way from portables of this grade of purity though; mostly because we're still using the same exact batteries as we were using ten years ago.
that's really what it's all about right there!!You might try giving the bowl a 90 degree turn when going to clear the chamber, that's an old technique we used to do that I still carry over.
Always great to see discussion in here, and I'm happy to add my input wherever I can!
coolbreeze
Well-Known Member
pxl_jockey
Just a dude
Dude I checked out when SS was being considered because minimal metal & flavour had been so integral to the equation for me. Just not interested in metal vapes at this stage. So I squealed like a little girl when I saw your post on choosing Ceramic Zirconia and V1.8 was happening soon! I’m glad & proud of you for sticking to your vision.
I know you’ve got many plans for different devices with other qualities but I’m super stoked that this one is for the freaky vape nerds chasing premium vape dreams.
Vaporware
Well-Known Member
I didn’t completely check out on the SS version, but as someone with both a ShowerHead and VRod covering the metal heater desktop front it was significantly less compelling to me.
I still would have bought one to support him and the future of the project, and it may even have been better than my FlowerPots, but the 1.8 is much more what I was chasing. I think it will be awesome!
I still would have bought one to support him and the future of the project, and it may even have been better than my FlowerPots, but the 1.8 is much more what I was chasing. I think it will be awesome!
Zuhdj
Charles Mingus
Agreed. I figure, since I want instant milky hits with a fast extraction and a ton of flavor I can just crank the temp up ever so slightly. I turned my b-0 up 8f and it hits much much faster. Weird what such a small difference will makeI didn’t completely check out on the SS version, but as someone with both a ShowerHead and VRod covering the metal heater desktop front it was significantly less compelling to me.
I still would have bought one to support him and the future of the project, and it may even have been better than my FlowerPots, but the 1.8 is much more what I was chasing. I think it will be awesome!
ChooChooCharlie
Well-Known Member
I also preordered over the weekend:
Acquired my August VAS validation stamp, so I may now bypass FC security checkpoints
Gotta support vape designers, especially local SoCal folk
Hoping for good flow with less retriction, those slots rather than holes should help
Previously had helical heating hysteria
He's got that covered in this heater
Now zapped with a zeal for zirconia
Acquired my August VAS validation stamp, so I may now bypass FC security checkpoints
Gotta support vape designers, especially local SoCal folk
Hoping for good flow with less retriction, those slots rather than holes should help
Previously had helical heating hysteria
He's got that covered in this heater
Now zapped with a zeal for zirconia
