Pesticides-less harmful when vaped or not?

[clarko]

I'm sure most of you are very health concious making the choice to vape instead of burn. I believe one of the biggest health concerns with cannabis anymore is the heavy use of pesticides. Many people do not know/have a direct relationship with their grower. In the states/countries where cannabis is not regulated as medicine, pesticide use is quite common. Common pesticides used such as avid and floramite have not been proven safe to smoke. Some growers may use large amounts of these pesticides. They are often sold in grow shops. One of the chemicals commonly used is used in wasp spray as well. If one was to vaporize cannabis with pesticides on it vs. smoking it, would their body receive the same amount of the chemical? Would there be chance they may not inhale it at all? (I imagine that is very unlikely) Scientific explanation or links would be much appreciated. Along with the temperature these chemicals would be released at if anybody can find that.

First post btw. I won't be on the computer alot, but I will definitely be checking back on this and I like the forum. Thanks.

 

[SpaceKracker]

I can only imagine it is still bad for you.

Almost all of the kind bud we get here north Florida is grown in cali or another medical state. The regular brick weed is all from mexico. There is very little local production, and most of it is probably for personel.

 

[djonkoman]

I think it could depend on the pesticide, firstly if harmfull chemicals vaporize/boil at temps used for vaporizing
and secondly if the chemical is more harmfull as it is or that the combustionproducts are more harmfull

 

[OF]

I think it could depend on the pesticide, firstly if harmfull chemicals vaporize/boil at temps used for vaporizing
and secondly if the chemical is more harmfull as it is or that the combustionproducts are more harmfull

Excellent response to a great question! I can see I ought to hang out here more often, it's not 'the same old stuff over and over'.

I agree. Best plan is to not have it, realistic as that might be. Then to have a safer version, again not realistic sometimes. Then next best is to leave it behind because it doesn't evaporate off, IMO not a given and should be looked into on the MSDS for the junk as a starting point.

All that aside, if it does get into the weed and does evaporate off, combustion will make it better. These sorts of chemicals are radically different (read easily destroyed) by heat. Granted the same thing is happening to the THC we came for (so you're going to burn more bud than you'd vape) but I'm guessing less gets to you.....not that combustion is a good option.

Fun topic, and important for many. I'm glad I have the option of paying a more perhaps but getting tested safe herb and concentrates.

OF

 

[clarko]

I can only imagine it is still bad for you.

Almost all of the kind bud we get here north Florida is grown in cali or another medical state. The regular brick weed is all from mexico. There is very little local production, and most of it is probably for personel.

That's nice. That brick stuff probably has all kinds of stuff in it and has stay away written all over it. Around here it comes from everywhere. If it's not local it's often from a med state aswell. I'm not sure how it all works but I'm sure some people in the med states still use unwanted pesticides. I would trust it if it had been prescribed though.

These sorts of chemicals are radically different (read easily destroyed) by heat. Granted the same thing is happening to the THC we came for (so you're going to burn more bud than you'd vape) but I'm guessing less gets to you.....not that combustion is a good option.

OF

That's very good to know! I'm wondering if the byproduct could be just as harmful as the original chemical or if it would just be the same chemical in smaller amounts because the rest is being destroyed. I would have thought since more of the chemical is being destroyed, more of the chemical would be in the smoke. (I should have taken my chemistry)

secondly if the chemical is more harmfull as it is or that the combustionproducts are more harmfull

This is a strong point too though. When it comes down to it vapings probably better no matter what. Lets just hope every state becomes a med state soon and nobody has to worry about it.

 

[SpaceKracker]

My dad has been smoking mexican brick weed since he was 11, so that's a little over 40 years with no ill effects. Doesn't smoke cigs and has a lung capacity near 100%.

When I by kind in any amount it's coming straight off the farm in a med state and the say they don't use pesticides but who knows. Usually if it has been flushed and cured right I have a little more confidence.

 

[OF]

That's very good to know! I'm wondering if the byproduct could be just as harmful as the original chemical or if it would just be the same chemical in smaller amounts because the rest is being destroyed. I would have thought since more of the chemical is being destroyed, more of the chemical would be in the smoke. (I should have taken my chemistry)

I don't think so. These sorts of things aren't poison in the same sense as Mercury or Arsenic which are elements and therefore can only be split up smaller. Rather in the end they are carbon, hydrogen and oxygen for the most part just like you and me. Heat them enough and that's all you've got. Such nasties are typically destroyed by incineration for that reason. Modify them even slightly and they generally become benign. This is probably the reason why some are rated as safe to smoke (but not to eat)? But this is an area that experts should look into.

OF

 

[SpaceKracker]

So I wonder if some can be more harmful if vaped than combusted?

 

[smokum]

For a true purist, I'd imagine the only way to feel entirely 'safe' about it all would be to grow your own and ensure a proper final flushing period (if using chems), or grow organically.

It's that, or put your trust into the claims or supposed testing that is done by others.

 

[djonkoman]

I did a quick search, as example I took a pesticide for spint, don't know exactly what the english name is(google translate tells me 2 translations, 'sap' and 'alburnum', but that doesn't sound right, spit is a kind of mite and makes white webs, so maybe it's the same as spidermite? )
anyway there is a pesticide for those by bayer called massai, the active ingredient in this is http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tebufenpyrad
boiling point of this is 468.4°C , so should be safe when vaping. it contains also a clhorine atom, so if it combust(no idea how easily it does that) it could be harmfull
so in this case I would say vaping is less harmfull, but ofcourse this is just one limited example, maybe that pesticide does have other chemicals in it that vaporize more easily and are also harmfull, and this os just one pesticide. I also have no idea of this [articular [esticide is commonly used fr weed or not, since I only grow outdoor so I don't have to deal with pests as much, and the pest I do commonly deal with are slugs wich I can fiht with beer and without spraying anything on the plants, and they are also more a threat in the earlier lifestages, not anymore in flower.

 

[SpaceKracker]

For a true purist, I'd imagine the only way to feel entirely 'safe' about it all would be to grow your own and ensure a proper final flushing period (if using chems), or grow organically.

It's that, or put your trust into the claims or supposed testing that is done by others.

Even organic needs to be flushed. Unless you want pop snaple crack weed.

 

[smokum]

Guess it depends on what you consider organic ? I only use aged horse poop, worm poop, native soils, and cane sugar (or molasses), aside from the first 3 weeks of flower boosts with kelp and initial planting with bone meal.

Whether your using chems or marketed organics, your fine with a last two week flush.

No snap crackle pop ever over here.

PEACE

 

[momatik]

Welcome to FC clarko.
I think it's difficult to talk about what would be worse for you on such general terms.

Here's a very good thread which covers ammonia exposure in combustion vs. vaporization. http://www.fuckcombustion.com/threads/vaporization-health-research-real-facts.1597/

 

[SpaceKracker]

Guess it depends on what you consider organic ? I only use aged horse poop, worm poop, native soils, and cane sugar (or molasses), aside from the first 3 weeks of flower boosts with kelp and initial planting with bone meal.

Whether your using chems or marketed organics, your fine with a last two week flush.

No snap crackle pop ever over here.

PEACE

Yea, as long as you are using plain water and not feeding with an organic compost tea you don't ever need to flush.

 

[OF]

anyway there is a pesticide for those by bayer called massai, the active ingredient in this is http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tebufenpyrad
boiling point of this is 468.4°C , so should be safe when vaping.

I'm not so sure that's a safe assumption. Water boils at 100C but it also evaporates at a far lower temperature right? The rate is just much lower. Most such materials have vapor pressure (evaporation rate controlled by temperature and partial pressures) at any temperature they're melted (not boiled). We're talking about chemicals that, as a class, can poison you with surprisingly low levels sometimes (which is, of course why they're effective in pest control....). Also consider that those materials will concentrate in the residual concentrates in many concentrate vapes as well as in contamination left in other systems to continue to poison you next time. The key is, I think, keeping them out, testing before trusting, or use of chemicals known to not be dangerous.


OF

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Water boils at 100C but it also evaporates at a far lower temperature right? The rate is just much lower

Bingo! Or, as i like to think about it, everything is a continuum.

or use of chemicals known to not be dangerous.

which is why i prefer borosilicate glassware.

 

[OF]

Bingo! Or, as i like to think about it, everything is a continuum.



which is why i prefer borosilicate glassware.

It seems we live in the same world, then. Funny, I don't recall you....you must go to a different group meeting than I do?

OF

 

[djonkoman]

I agree, my example was also very minimal and oversimplified, and I don't know enough about pesticides to say anything meaningful about the actual toxicity.
but I still think that due to this high boiling point, that in case of this single chemical vaping would likely be better as combustion, altough both should be avoided.

the meltingpoint from solid into liquid was around 69 degrees(cesius) btw, if I remember correctly.

 

[sublimationpurist]

It's so annoying that people would ruin an herb with chemicals.

Another thing to consider is that many vapers eat their ABV.

 

[clarko]

I'll try not to bump this thread up too many times but I am gaining valuable info here.

Welcome to FC clarko.
I think it's difficult to talk about what would be worse for you on such general terms.

Here's a very good thread which covers ammonia exposure in combustion vs. vaporization. http://www.fuckcombustion.com/threads/vaporization-health-research-real-facts.1597/

Thank you that is a very good read. I wonder if smoking out of a piece without the sidestream smoke of a ciggarette or cigar would still give you just as much amonia maybe? Its so hard to get away from all the negative side effects. It would be nice if they studied edibles as well although I don't think they feel the same.

Another thing to consider is that many vapers eat their ABV.

I personally think thats nasty

 

[misanthrope]

A lot of the weed here in the UK is grown aeroponically and a lot of people don't flush their bud properly (2 weeks is recommended), you can sometimes taste "ferty" bud where the fertilizer overwhelmes the taste of the skunk - not good. Some people deal with spidermites using chemicals - again, not good.

A lot of bud is grown by criminal elements who have no real interest in the quality of what they're growing, hence a few years ago there was weed going around with very finely ground glass sprayed on it to increase weight, with the predictable horrific results. Cornflour added to bud was another favourite of unscrupulous cash croppers. I once had some stuff with silica on it. Luckily people have wised up now so hopefully this isn't happening anymore.

Unfortunately, these are the worries that prohibition brings. I'd say that worries about ferts and pesticides are a good enough reason for legalisation and quality regulations. I do not worry about this stuff when I'm in Amsterdam.

Either way I'm hoping it's safe to assume that vaping nasty ferts and pesticides is better for you than burning them...

 

[Roger D]

I do not worry about this stuff when I'm in Amsterdam.

You should. Supply isn't regulated

I guess the only option is DIY. I have been on street stuff and I'm worried about the contamination. I think I could send my AVB to be screened or something.

edit : Just realized I upped a very old post. I think this is still a serious issue. We should gather more data about it.

 

[AK47 AMI]

A lot of the weed here in the UK is grown aeroponically and a lot of people don't flush their bud properly (2 weeks is recommended), you can sometimes taste "ferty" bud where the fertilizer overwhelmes the taste of the skunk - not good. Some people deal with spidermites using chemicals - again, not good.

A lot of bud is grown by criminal elements who have no real interest in the quality of what they're growing, hence a few years ago there was weed going around with very finely ground glass sprayed on it to increase weight, with the predictable horrific results. Cornflour added to bud was another favourite of unscrupulous cash croppers. I once had some stuff with silica on it. Luckily people have wised up now so hopefully this isn't happening anymore.

Unfortunately, these are the worries that prohibition brings. I'd say that worries about ferts and pesticides are a good enough reason for legalisation and quality regulations. I do not worry about this stuff when I'm in Amsterdam.

Either way I'm hoping it's safe to assume that vaping nasty ferts and pesticides is better for you than burning them...

Hi I live in the UK too but am worried about this issue, is it really better to vape our stuff or combust due to the pesticides?? Any more info please do let me know? Cheers

 

[justcametomind]

I have seen harm reduction posts on social media about unknown substances that may be present in cannabis. They always recommend vaporization instead of smoking so I bet they made a bit of research before. If you are about to inhale some nasty stuff it’s quite no brainer to imagine that just vaporizing it is always better than adding another nasty stuff to it, such as smoke.
Imho there’s also the hope that “some” nasty stuff would not be absorbed because vaporizing takes place at relatively low temp, and they have a higher boiling point. With smoking you absorb the full spectrum of the bad stuff.