PBW & the Chemistry of Clean

[Xchadb]

i must say im glad i ran into this thread, t-dub always pro with cleaning! with the swagger circ the mouthpiece is the same size as my kitchen sink, i just wrap my hand around it and turn it as hot as my hand can stand, doing this every morning and night keeps my daily driver fresh enough for someone as picky as me, also a huge fan of hot water in the perc, esp in the wintertime when sick.

 

[NoddingDonkey]

As I mentioned in the Flush Device thread, THANK YOU T-DUB. Your guide is going to get my glass that much prettier. Yes I said pretty dammit!

 

[HighlyEducatedScholar]

after such a great review and demonstration on this PBW, im definitely considering getting it. however, have you found that it helps with the removal of particulates?

i have two glasses pieces and both of which i have these stubborn particulates stuck onto the sides of the glass. i've tried repeatedly to flush with hot water but i still have some stuck onto the walls of the glass. i'm a bit reluctant to use salt and shake since one of these pieces has a 12arm tree which i wouldn't want to to snap a few trees off in the process. i probably just need to change up my cleaning technique a bit but if this PBW removes both hard water stains AND particulates that would be perfect.

 

[t-dub]

It depends on what the particulate is. If its resin or essential oils of some kind then the PBW will make it go away. If it is plant material (cellulose) here is my experience using it to clean ELBs. After a soak my mesh ELBs will be entirely clean however, there will be a fine grit left, that is extremely clean and easy to rinse away, but nonetheless its still there. I can only assume that it is perhaps some cellulose that has been stripped clean and left behind?

Another function of this is dwell time. The longer you let things sit, the more they will break down. I am very impatient by nature so I can't let things sit for long

Edit: I have never had any particulate cleaning glass, only cleaning ELBs which were filthy and loaded with plant material . . .

 

[HighlyEducatedScholar]

Another function of this is dwell time. The longer you let things sit, the more they will break down. I am very impatient by nature so I can't let things sit for long

i am very much like you, impatient by nature, so maybe that's why this stubborn plant material hasn't gone away yet. like you said, its a very fine grit type of texture. maybe once i get the PBW i'll let it sit for as long as possible, or as long as my patience allows me

 

[SD_haze]

It depends on what the particulate is. If its resin or essential oils of some kind then the PBW will make it go away. If it is plant material (cellulose) here is my experience using it to clean ELBs. After a soak my mesh ELBs will be entirely clean however, there will be a fine grit left, that is extremely clean and easy to rinse away, but nonetheless its still there. I can only assume that it is perhaps some cellulose that has been stripped clean and left behind?

Another function of this is dwell time. The longer you let things sit, the more they will break down. I am very impatient by nature so I can't let things sit for long

Edit: I have never had any particulate cleaning glass, only cleaning ELBs which were filthy and loaded with plant material . . .

How exactly are you cleaning the ELBs with the PBW? Just a soak in the solution then spray it with some water pressure?

 

[t-dub]

How exactly are you cleaning the ELBs with the PBW? Just a soak in the solution then spray it with some water pressure?

Yeah just leaving them in for a prolonged soak then water rinse. I'm not sure how happy I am though, I mean, they are clean but its different than using ISO on them . . . I'm gonna keep at it for now to see if over time an unexpected result occurs . . .

 

[bleak]

t-dub, how long do you think that container will last you? Is one scoop per clean enough, on average?

I'm wondering if theres any sense in me buying 2 containers, or if thats overkill.

 

[t-dub]

t-dub, how long do you think that container will last you? Is one scoop per clean enough, on average? I'm wondering if theres any sense in me buying 2 containers, or if thats overkill.

This container is going to last a long time, even though I'm putting this stuff in the dishwasher as well. I actually use very little when I clean since testing is over and I am using the new RezBlock concentrate. I would guess that I use somewhere between 1/4-1/2 teaspoon for HydraTubes and 1 teaspoon, roughly, for larger glass types. So a single, 1 pound container, should last you a long while for just glass cleaning, you may find other uses however . . .

 

[noserub]

PBW is amazing stuff! I'm an avid home brewer and swear by it for cleaning all kinds of stuff including my glass tubes and various kitchen related items. I buy the 8lb containers from a home brew site. This stuff will clean super gnarly build up from wort and crazy fermentations caked on the side of glass carboys and pretty much will neutralize anything you throw at it...including resin build up from my experience. It's easiest to just leave it overnight for really nasty stuff and then wash and rinse with warm water...but depending on how dirty the item is can clean within 30min.

Also, a cheaper alternative that is also effective is OxyClean.

 

[t-dub]

PBW is amazing stuff! I'm an avid home brewer and swear by it for cleaning all kinds of stuff including my glass tubes and various kitchen related items. I buy the 8lb containers from a home brew site. This stuff will clean super gnarly build up from wort and crazy fermentations caked on the side of glass carboys and pretty much will neutralize anything you throw at it...including resin build up from my experience. It's easiest to just leave it overnight for really nasty stuff and then wash and rinse with warm water...but depending on how dirty the item is can clean within 30min. Also, a cheaper alternative that is also effective is OxyClean.

Thanks for contributing to the thread noserub, I appreciate it. Oxyclean is half of PBW, the other being sodium metasilicate (TSP substitute) which you can get bulk at the hardware store. So a person could mix Oxyclean and sodium metasilcate (2:1) to produce a basic PBW without any surfactants (wetting agents) which could be supplied with something like Calgon which RogerD used to good effect.

I found this post by a home brewer who REALLY breaks down the chemistry, material sources, everything about how to make your own PBW. Its a good read, recommended . . .

http://www.daytondraft.org/brew-school/powdered-brewers-wash-pbw-homemade/

Sample quote . . .

The cheapest way I’ve found to make it in town is as follows. Ran me about $15 for 11lbs worth. PBW is about $36 for 8lbs worth so you are saving a lot of money.
Get two 3.5lbs containers of Oxi Versatile Free from Walmart/Target etc. and mix it with one 4lbs bag of Red Devil TSP 90 from Ace.
www.walmart.com/ip/Oxi-Clean-Versatile-F…mover-56-oz/11028064
www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=10274
Total cost for 11 lbs of cleaner is ~$21.12 ($1.92/lb) compared to PBW at $8.45/lb. Savings of ~300%

I'm gonna stick with buying a larger amount of PBW for now, but I do have a huge container of Oxyclean just sitting doing nothing . . .

 

[noserub]

Very cool info...thanks for the tip t-dub! I use a lot of PBW (I brew a lot of beer) so that may be a good option for me. This reminds me...my 18"-er needs a good cleaning and tonight's the night. It's been a while since I've cleaned her, so I'll post my results later on.

 

[t-dub]

Very cool info...thanks for the tip t-dub! I use a lot of PBW (I brew a lot of beer) so that may be a good option for me. This reminds me...my 18"-er needs a good cleaning and tonight's the night. It's been a while since I've cleaned her, so I'll post my results later on.

Thanks, can't wait to hear how it goes. Careful of labels, strong PBW kills cheap labels on contact, at least in the concentrations I use, and will fade quality ones I suspect although my Swagger labels are still unaffected. Personally I hate labels and am getting ready to remove all my damaged ones now that testing is done and they are no longer required. The Swagger labels I will keep though.

Also: PBW INSTANTLY destroyed the anodized finish on my SpaceCase Ti grinder

 

[bleak]

Thanks for the reply t-dub

Looking at the grinder - Wow, thats strong stuff!! I'll have to be careful to keep it on the inside of my glass, as I quite like the subtle logo my pieces have.

 

[Your Highness]

Yeah just leaving them in for a prolonged soak then water rinse. I'm not sure how happy I am though, I mean, they are clean but its different than using ISO on them . . . I'm gonna keep at it for now to see if over time an unexpected result occurs . . .

I just soaked my ELB's for about 24 hours and wow I am Impressed. They came out much cleaner then an ISO soak and look totally brand new!

I also soaked all of my UD stems (glass and silicone) and they came out perfectly! Now on to my glass...

Thanks t-dub! Awesome tek!

 

[bleak]

I also soaked all of my UD stems (glass and silicone) and they came out perfectly! Now on to my glass...

So this stuff is safe to use with silicon?? No degradation that you noticed?

I've never found a way to satisfactorily clean the silicon whips from Da Buddha, they always keep that bitter smell.

 

[noserub]

So this stuff is safe to use with silicon?? No degradation that you noticed?

I've never found a way to satisfactorily clean the silicon whips from Da Buddha, they always keep that bitter smell.

Definitely, I use it to clean beer wort from the high temp silicone tubing I use transferring the wort from the boil kettle to the wort chiller to the fermenter. Soaking it works like a charm...don't leave it in too long...24 hours is fine. Don't increase the strength too far beyond the recommended amount on the instructions...it won't help to increase the speed of the cleaning time.

I don't use whips currently, so I don't know if it would eliminate the smell completely...but I expect it would.

 

[Your Highness]

So this stuff is safe to use with silicon?? No degradation that you noticed?

I've never found a way to satisfactorily clean the silicon whips from Da Buddha, they always keep that bitter smell.

The silicone was good as new...no detectable smell at all.

 

[stonemonkey55]

We stumbled upon a pretty good cleaning idea at the last Cannabis Cup. Instead of cleaning our hydratubes by filling them with Grunge Off/Simple Green/Iso, we got a huge bucket and filled it with cleaner and then soaked our glass in the buckets. Do you think this would work with PBW? Since we discovered this method of cleaning, I have a 8 gallon bucket in my bathroom that I use for soaking my glass and was curious if I could replace the Grunge Off with some PBW. I think GO works really well but there are still some tough stains that I can't get out of certain pieces.

 

[t-dub]

We stumbled upon a pretty good cleaning idea at the last Cannabis Cup. Instead of cleaning our hydratubes by filling them with Grunge Off/Simple Green/Iso, we got a huge bucket and filled it with cleaner and then soaked our glass in the buckets. Do you think this would work with PBW? Since we discovered this method of cleaning, I have a 8 gallon bucket in my bathroom that I use for soaking my glass and was curious if I could replace the Grunge Off with some PBW. I think GO works really well but there are still some tough stains that I can't get out of certain pieces.

Yes PBW totally lends itself to this type of use. When you pull your glass out give it a nice, hot (if possible not necessary) rinse and by all means don't be afraid to use a test tube brush if you need to. Extended dwell time is an aspect to PBW I haven't really talked about yet. I am too impatient and focus on the quick aspect of the chemical but when home brewers burn wort (proteins) on the bottom of a kettle, a TOTAL nightmare to clean, an overnight soak in PBW is the prescription. Please report back with your results, I am excited because of the level of usage you guys have. For "proof of concept" I could never begin to duplicate what you can do in my lab.

 

[Vapinghole]

t-dub, you're one fart smucker! Wait, I got that bass-ackwards...switch the beginning of those last two words

Seriously, thanks for all this excellent information. As always, you're a big help in many ways.

 

[Tweak]

I made some poor mans PBW. Don't think it works as good as true PBW, but it was local and instant gratification, I hate waiting on orders, lol. Sadly on the way to get the ingredients my bubbler broke, .

Been using it to clean everything around the house. I always thought Billy Mays was crazy, this product has changed my mind. Heck of a lot cheaper than pre-made carpet cleaner and much safer than bleach.

Thanks t-dub. I'm going to order the real stuff when the holidays are over. Maybe mix in some res-block, I'm tired of cleaning my glass every day.

 

[t-dub]

Sadly on the way to get the ingredients my bubbler broke,

Tweak, I'm so sorry to hear about your bubbler On a positive note, the new RezBlock Concentrate is very nice so far

Thanks everyone for the contributions to this thread, keep 'em coming, together we can find more ways to make this stuff work for us

 

[NoddingDonkey]

We stumbled upon a pretty good cleaning idea at the last Cannabis Cup. Instead of cleaning our hydratubes by filling them with Grunge Off/Simple Green/Iso, we got a huge bucket and filled it with cleaner and then soaked our glass in the buckets. Do you think this would work with PBW? Since we discovered this method of cleaning, I have a 8 gallon bucket in my bathroom that I use for soaking my glass and was curious if I could replace the Grunge Off with some PBW. I think GO works really well but there are still some tough stains that I can't get out of certain pieces.

If I wasn't so personal with my glass (meaning I enjoy the time spent cleaning them one by one) I would have gone through with the following idea that came to me as soon as I read this thread:

Mag-drive (size TBD) pump to manifold (think home made ez cloner), each manifold outlet has an on/off valve inline before reducing to a tubing bung (use threaded abs, not pvc). from the male tubing bungs you can run your hoses and corks just like t-dub's directions and place everything in a spare reservoir sized adequately for your glass. Hook it up, fill the rez and pieces with water, add your PBW, and turn the pump on. You'll have a recirculating effect as well as soak time going simultaneously.

 

[Roger D]

Great idea NoddingDonkey !

You would need a pump able to handle the corrosive product

This would be perfect with a built in warmer to reach above 60°c, killing and dissolving the crap really easy. Theses products doesn't work so well in cold water.

The problems : The large volume of water requires more product / It doesn't takes care of the rinse witch is half the job when you do the clean regularly / May be awkward to use in real life

Idea of solution : A tank with full silicone cushioning, a water in and out connection, a filter, a warmer, a cleaning product dispenser. You hook your tool and all you gotta do is press switches and it does all the job with hot, clean filtered water, it would rinses and flush to the drainage, taking the water it needs from the tap. We could even imagine a hot air blow to dry it tight.
It would be sold for coffee shops owners, dispensaries or rich stoners
The first bubbler washing machine

Vapor ideas

I have to try my product on silicone to see what kind of results I got. I fear to destroy it but the silicone used with vaporizers is supposed to be very high grade and resistant so, results to come. First I'm gonna try with a old stem, then I'm gonna clean my useful stuff.

Edit : On the silicone, it is working the way PBW has been described to work. I finally used it to clean the parts that I'm actually using, I'm not really patient so I let it like one hour. It doesn't got it clean as new but it removed a lot of the stench and now it smells almost neutral. They seems to seal better also.
So you can use percarbonate + calgon for silicone. Way better than iso.

For my metal bowls I like to reclaim so I prefer alcohol