PBW & the Chemistry of Clean
- Thread starter t-dub
- Start date
So we can all agree on something, right guys?
ataxian, you need to relax, brother. We're all friends here.
Who's up for a vape session?
Now back to your regularly scheduled PBW programming....
OF
Well-Known Member
ashingtray
Member
I found this post and as recommended i ordered PBW from ebay, although it was super expensive, bout 20 USD for a small bag, I used it the first time, as recommended per most instructions i read here: first clean the glass with hot water (shower-hot), then on a separate jar put 1 tbs of PBW and mix it with hot water, then I put my glass into ziggybag, and pour the PBW mixture into it, and make sure there ain't no bubble in the glass. I soak it bout 15-20 minutes, I tried it twice no luck, then on the third try, as I was washing the PBW away, I shake it vigorously, and the stain starts to come off! Was so happy, and now I'm waiting for the 4th soak.
My question is; what do I do next after this, should I soak it in vinegar so I won't get the white film? Vinegar and baking soda? Or just vinegar?
My question is; what do I do next after this, should I soak it in vinegar so I won't get the white film? Vinegar and baking soda? Or just vinegar?
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
If you keep your dwell times short you wont get the white film. Its folks that soaked for hours or overnight who had problems. Also using too much PBW can cause problems. Not sure what a "ziggybag" is but I never recommended it. I mix right inside my glass, wait 5 minutes, then rinse and repeat.
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ashingtray
Member
Opps-sorry, I meant zipper-bag.
So not necessary to wash it with vinegar+baking(acid) soda after?
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
I have never done so. One of the characteristics of PBW is that it is free-rinsing.
MinnBobber
Well-Known Member
....................................................................
So, soaking in the ziggybag, was the glass totally full of the solution?
From my experience, two things cause a white film from PBW:
- too much PBW powder where it does not dissolve totally.
- too much dwell time
So, I always err on the side of "less is better". A weak solution will work, might just take 2 sessions instead of one. Same for dwell time, I usually do 5-8 minutes.
I use the Delta 3D Studio silicone plugs shown below---several sizes. I don't like to put in baggie or submerge in big container. With plugs, only inside gets cleaned as that's what is gooped up.
I put in lower plug, fill about 2/3, shake shake shake the hot totally dissolved mix, fill to full, and dump in 5-8 minutes. Then rinse 2 or 3 times with hot water.
ashingtray
Member
Alright guys, thanks so much. I'm at my fifth dip now with PBW. The stains are slowly coming off. So for people who are trying PBW but with no luck, keep on trying. Mine took bout 3-4 dwell, and some vigorous shaking, then only it worked.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
So I take it you are dipping your glass into either a Ziploc bag or some kind of container. This will work but it will take longer than the method I have outlined in this thread. Mixing in vitro with hot water allows the oxy part of the solution to work directly on the soiling and will give you a stronger solution. If you mix outside your glass and wait then a lot of this action gets wasted. You can tell by watching the bubbles.
Dwell time refers to the length of time, usually in minutes, that the soil is in contact with your cleaning chemical.
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ashingtray
Member
so after my fifth dwell, there are still some black residue stuck at the bong, I'm starting to give up on those hard stains, but atleast the entire bong is 80% cleaned. any last solution for those black-hard residue?
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Yes. Use the hottest water from your tap and mix a stronger solution of PBW right inside your glass. This is what I meant by "in vitro" its Latin and literally means "in glass". Also have you smoked out of this bong? Removing carbon stains is tougher than resin. If you use cranberry extract in your bong water it will keep things from sticking to your glass so it will clean up easier. I recommend using gloves to avoid getting burned by the hot water. Do not use boiling water as the thermal shock can shatter your glass.
Edit: This black stuff might require a brush to remove but soaking in PBW will make this much easier.
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ashingtray
Member
It's a Pinnacle Pro DLX 2.0 glass, the black stains is unreachable by brushing. Yea, did try hotter water and thicker PBW. But I'm pretty scared to dip it in the mixture for too long after hearing advises about the white film. I've dipped it bout 8 minutes, then washed it again, still no luck, and the imprint of the glass is starting to fade out (don't really care about it though). Still any other recommended advise to remove those black stains? I might just leave it, but any circumstances if i choose not to clean it today? Hmm.. cranberry extract as bong water? Interesting...
OF
Well-Known Member
Listen to the man, he knows the one Truth here. Hot and FRESH solution does the work. This stuff releases Oxygen (like 'Oxyclean'.....), free bubbles, which is what drives it under and lifts off baked on junk. That action disappears in a few minutes, DO NOT PREMIX, put a bit inside, fill with the hottest water the sink will deliver, cork up the ends and shake a bit. Don't worry about '100% fill' or no bubbles inside, just shake it and get all surfaces inside wet. This is a 'surface science' game, only the solution in direct contact 'works'. Putting it in a big bucket of solution does no additional good, in fact is probably less effective, and is surely more expensive.
The stuff will work great, but long neglected stuff can be a real trial for sure.
Have faith, T-dub is right, T-dub is wise........
OF
ashingtray
Member
Just did, put some into the glass, then filled it up with hot water. Wait bout 8 minutes, then washed it off again. Still the black stain stays. So I guess it's really unremovable, I can live with it. When the glass dries, white film develops around the usual water line. I'm living with it, at least PBW helped me got rid of 80% of the stain, which I've tried with baking soda and vinegar without luck. The question is, I heard PBW can be quite poisonous, so is it safe for me to use the glass with the white film around it?
OF
Well-Known Member
I'd agitate some as well, your clothes don't get clean without moving the fluids around, right? Same here. Without agitation once the chemicals are exhausted locally (at the atomic level) all action stops. And you'll need atomic level action to chip away at the baked on carbon against the glass in that stain. Something has to stick to the carbon harder than it sticks to the glass..... Hopefully, over time, it will chip away at the deposits.
I definitely would not drink PBW, and I avoid the dust, but when well rinsed I don't worry about any residual detergent in the piece. Your call, but it's not like ISO in that it won't evaporate to get to you.......
Glad you had partial success with it, hopefully more will follow. Once clean it's easy to stay ahead of the junk with PBW.....even using very modest amounts. I use a small bubbler and never use more than about one cc of the stuff, generally about half that. Once it breaks the surface tension and gets the junk 'dissolved' in the wash water it's done all it can really. Then it's dump, rinse a few times, refill and go. Easy and safe. And cheap, at least here. A pound is ten bucks or less and lasts a very very long time.
OF
ashingtray
Member
OF
Well-Known Member
Beats me, I don't have it. Other, similar to what's described, cases I've seen were the glass being etched by secondary reactions involving Oxygen (available at the surface). I've seen equipment with rings etched into the glass at 'the waterline' even, sometimes it's a 'frosted' appearance over a wider area.
Though 'only' mildly caustic it is an aggressive chemical (or it wouldn't work for us.....) and glass is not immune to all things?
I very seriously doubt it's a deposit of any sort since it doesn't wash out. Even a lime ring would in PBW.
OF
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Wow, t-dub...I have read pretty much this whole thread and really want to compliment you, Ratchett, and a few others for Sister Teresa type patience. Who know that some could worry so much about cleaning solutions used with....wait for it...food/beverage containers.
Anyway, couple of quick questions, please:
1. The cranberry extract you use to keep the grung from forming as quickly...is it something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Herb-Pharm-C...=1468957441&sr=1-3&keywords=cranberry+extract
2. In your videos, you have a nice set up for connecting hose to faucet. I got the #2 stopper with drilled hole, but how to people go about connecting to the faucet. I have seen faucet to garden hose adapters and suppose if I get one of those more cheap, thin, spiral hoses that I can either cut it down or just cut off the hose bib end and connect it to some tubing. Any thoughts.
Thanks for all of your patience and hard work to answer questions and keep this thread on topic.
t-dub
Vapor Sloth
Thank you for your kind words. I would not recommend the cranberry extract you have asked about because it contains a lot of alcohol. Here is a shot of the back of their label:
The Botanic Choice and Nature's Answer extracts we use contain no alcohol as inhaling alcohol vapors is ill advised. Also there are lower prices to be had outside of Amazon. I started a thread for this discussion here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/rezblock-cranberry-extract.8060/
My thoughts regarding hose connections to faucets is they are all different. It helps to have a faucet head that unscrews and comes off so you can stick a rubber plug in the pipe. Other solutions are available however some faucet designs simply will not allow this type of connection to be made. I remember a universal type adapter that was for a portable dishwasher but have not obtained one.
The Botanic Choice and Nature's Answer extracts we use contain no alcohol as inhaling alcohol vapors is ill advised. Also there are lower prices to be had outside of Amazon. I started a thread for this discussion here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/rezblock-cranberry-extract.8060/
My thoughts regarding hose connections to faucets is they are all different. It helps to have a faucet head that unscrews and comes off so you can stick a rubber plug in the pipe. Other solutions are available however some faucet designs simply will not allow this type of connection to be made. I remember a universal type adapter that was for a portable dishwasher but have not obtained one.
OF
Well-Known Member
Such adapter do exist. I got mine at the local hardware store, it looks like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Chicago-Fauc..._SR160,160_&psc=1&refRID=CRDH1M0QSDA5CJS1GGWY
While you could cut the end off a cheap hose, I used the faucet adapter normally used to hook up drip and similar watering systems. Different section of the same store (Gardening not Plumbing), I ended up with something ending in 3/8 OD flexible tube (black) which I cut to a few inches and pushed the tube to my wash rig over. If I had to do it again (and I no longer use that system....) I'd use a 1/4 tube adapter instead, the smaller tube is easier to deal with and flows plenty of water for this application.
These days I just do it in the sink when nobody's watching. Only takes a few minutes, really.
OF
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your kind words. I would not recommend the cranberry extract you have asked about because it contains a lot of alcohol. Here is a shot of the back of their label:
The Botanic Choice and Nature's Answer extracts we use contain no alcohol as inhaling alcohol vapors is ill advised. Also there are lower prices to be had outside of Amazon. I started a thread for this discussion here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/rezblock-cranberry-extract.8060/
My thoughts regarding hose connections to faucets is they are all different. It helps to have a faucet head that unscrews and comes off so you can stick a rubber plug in the pipe. Other solutions are available however some faucet designs simply will not allow this type of connection to be made. I remember a universal type adapter that was for a portable dishwasher but have not obtained one.
Thanks t-dub....how stupid of me to not have looked more closely at the bottle. I agree, I don't want alcohol in there at all and thanks for the link to the relevant thread!
P.S. - T-dub.....I take it back...that thread is 47 pages!!...on cranberry extract!! LOL. sigh Care to share the bottom line? I will Google the two companies you reference above. I'm sure I can sort this out.
P.P.S. - I found Botanic Choice running a sale on it for $3.99 so I bought a few bottles.
Hi OF - thanks for the feedback...I think I have a good view of it now.
Cheers
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