Oils from Licensed Producers

[mikek9]

So my disappointment has reached a new level with the oil products from licensed providers.

The only LP that has a license to sell oils from what I am aware of is Peace Naturals and when I popped on their site I was just astounded at the price and the quantity of your prescription that it consumes.

So one of their oils for over $200 has only 750mg of THC in the 30 ml vial. Essentially the maximum concentration allowed by health Canada. Which isn't bad for edibles but the price is insane. You need about 100ml of oil for a recipe so this would cost over $600 just to make a batch of brownies. If you were to actually make a 9x9 pan with this oil and cut it in 12 squares, each square would contain about 190mg of THC per square which is a healthy dose. You could eat half an effective edible.

I believe about 80mgs is the recommended dose for experience users.

However, this is just not economically possible for the price as well as the grams consumed from your monthly script. That 30 ml vial of oil is equal to 30g off your script. which is not reasonable because in what world would 30grams of bud only yeild 750mgs of THC? Basically the bud being used to make the oil would have to be 3% THC to only get this much of a concentration. How could that could towards your script when the average bud is 15% THC.

You could get double that from 10 grams of 15% THC. That would yeild roughly 1500mgs of THC.

So. For example, Chocolope is $6/gram from tweed at 16.29% THC. 10 grams of this should yeild 1629mg in theory and only cost me $60 for the flowers. And of course some time in the kitchen.

TL;DR - LP oils convert to your daily quantity in grams per day based on a 3% THC limit so expect to use more grams per month than you would of buying flowers. Also expect to get ripped off. The concentration isn't bad for edibles, but the price is ridiculous.

 

[theCerberus]

Just make your own or obtain from dispensary until the new government hopefully fixes the MMPR system to include proper edibles and extracts.

The restrictions they currently put on LPs make it almost impossible to produce anything worth using.

Patients under MMPR and MMAR currently have a new Section 56 exemption from Health Canada so we are legally allowed to make infused butter/oil, ice water/bubble hash, dry ice hash, co2 hash, and rosin/heat press hash.
According to Health Canada we should not use solvents such as isopropyl, ethanol, butane, propane, etc.
While there is a reasonable assumption that this is a safety precaution, it is unreasonable to assume responsible adults could not take proper precautions.

LPs are subject to 3% THC restrictions really only because they have the ability to lab test.
There is no scientific bearing on why they did this and it completely unjustified (I don't think its even legal to set that limit).

We dont have to worry about that. They didnt provide us a lab to send our cannabis to so we could know exact percentages. They only did that for the LPs, who usually just use their own in house labs anyway.

We can estimate pretty well like you did above, but I always make my edibles from ABV so I have no idea how much THC % it would equal. I couldn't even begin to estimate it.

According to the Supreme Court of Canada medical users under MMPR and MMAR should be able to make and posses any form of cannabis and cannabis derivatives.

When Smith won the extracts trial Health Canada dragged their feet in the mud for a few months and then released this Section 56 exemption which in my opinion does not completely cover what the Supreme Court ruled.

Since the law is always broken before anything gets done (Parker growing weed illegally, getting caught formed MMAR, Smith made cookies and supplied a dispensary illegally with no medical license to grow or posses getting caught gave us this Supreme Court extract ruling), the only choice we have as patients is to break any law we feel is unjust and prevents us from obtaining medicine that works for us.
The same goes for dispensaries.

 

[mikek9]

I just ordered a 100ml bottle of Jack Herer Oil from Tweed today. Cost me $100 with the compassion pricing, and actually only $40 after I used a coupon I got for my lift reviews.

It contains 1840mg THC in the whole bottle or 18.4mg/ml.

I actually am quite pleased with the pricing Tweed is offering for their oils. They are supercritical CO2 extractions which are then infused with sunflower oil. The product is decarboxylated and winterized - though since its not for dabbing I don't see the point of winterization.

Since many typical recipes use about 100ml of oil, like store bought brownie boxes, then I am going to try making a batch of those with the whole bottle. I will likely try one 10ml dose first to see how the effects settle in without being combined into an edible and then use the other 90ml for the recipe. That should give me 1656 mg of THC and if I cut my brownies into 10 squares each one will have give each one roughly 165.6mg THC. That should be a healthy dose.

Just make your own or obtain from dispensary until the new government hopefully fixes the MMPR system to include proper edibles and extracts.

The restrictions they currently put on LPs make it almost impossible to produce anything worth using.

Patients under MMPR and MMAR currently have a new Section 56 exemption from Health Canada so we are legally allowed to make infused butter/oil, ice water/bubble hash, dry ice hash, co2 hash, and rosin/heat press hash.
According to Health Canada we should not use solvents such as isopropyl, ethanol, butane, propane, etc.
While there is a reasonable assumption that this is a safety precaution, it is unreasonable to assume responsible adults could not take proper precautions.

LPs are subject to 3% THC restrictions really only because they have the ability to lab test.
There is no scientific bearing on why they did this and it completely unjustified (I don't think its even legal to set that limit).

We dont have to worry about that. They didnt provide us a lab to send our cannabis to so we could know exact percentages. They only did that for the LPs, who usually just use their own in house labs anyway.

We can estimate pretty well like you did above, but I always make my edibles from ABV so I have no idea how much THC % it would equal. I couldn't even begin to estimate it.

According to the Supreme Court of Canada medical users under MMPR and MMAR should be able to make and posses any form of cannabis and cannabis derivatives.

When Smith won the extracts trial Health Canada dragged their feet in the mud for a few months and then released this Section 56 exemption which in my opinion does not completely cover what the Supreme Court ruled.

Since the law is always broken before anything gets done (Parker growing weed illegally, getting caught formed MMAR, Smith made cookies and supplied a dispensary illegally with no medical license to grow or posses getting caught gave us this Supreme Court extract ruling), the only choice we have as patients is to break any law we feel is unjust and prevents us from obtaining medicine that works for us.
The same goes for dispensaries.

do you actually get success using ABV for edibles? I have had no luck. Personally, I don't even vape the crap out of my bud, but the herbalAire does such an efficient job of extracting I don't think it leaves much worthwhile left.

 

[theCerberus]

Yes.

My ABV gets to chocolate brown colour but there are still lots of active ingredients left.

I make edibles exclusively out of ABV and they are quite strong.

I didnt scale out the ABV in anyway but it filled a rather large pot, I just used regular unsalted butter and cooked it on low for about 45 minutes. I used a lot of butter. I think it was 24 sticks. Enough to cover the ABV.
The butter turns a dark green colour and then you can strain out the solid bits while its still warm with cheese cloth or a metal/mesh strainer.

I made rice crispy squares and brownies out of the butter and found that I only need about 1/4 of it to feel strong effects. Theres probably a good amount of THC in each one (maybe even 100mg), but I dont have a lab to send it to.

Personally I would never buy edibles or oils.

I basically get them for free by using ABV.

I want the LPs to be able make real concentrates. shatter. co2. ice wax. rosin.
That stuff takes more than basic cooking skills to make right.

 

[mikek9]

What vaporizer/s do you use?

 

[theCerberus]

Vapexhale Cloud Evo when I'm at home.

Firefly when I'm on the go.

 

[mikek9]

My oil has arrived from tweed. Will post pics soon. Came in a nice package with a 10ml syringe that looks like it mates directly to the bottle's neck for easy dosing.

For those wondering, it is made from their Jack herer strain and infused in 100 ml sunflower oil with 1840mg of activated THC. Concentration of 18.4mg/ml which is under the health Canada limit of 30mg/ml.

I'm going to do some baking with it but first I want to try it by just eating it. Apparently I can just squirt it in my mouth from the syringe and swallow. Don't know if this will be inefficient.

Also, the documentation it comes with talks about the effects being strongest on an empty stomach but I have heard conflicting reports about this. Some say it's best to eat a small snack about 1-2 hours before ingestion.

 

[weenstoned]

Have always heard empty stomach or with a meal.

 

[mikek9]

Here is the update so far:

I have just ingested 5ml of the oil straight on a fairly empty stomach. I had a small breakfast around 9am and I ingested around 1:40pm - so maybe an empty stomach again - it feels empty. The oil tasted like bud, as if I threw a nug in my mouth a chewed it, but less intense. It definitely smells like cannabis, but it could smell stronger. It seemed to retain much of the smell and taste of the original jack herer strain they grow as well. The bottles were glass, which worries me a little if I drop it or something. I would prefer plastic for durability, but I'm sure the glass has some advantages over plastic. The bottle comes in a box wrapped in like a shammy or something absorbent looking.

Here's the pics of the unboxing as well as the pics of me loading up my first dose:

 

[chris 71]

any updates on effects ? is the 10:1 thc to cbd ? i have just got some of tilrays hybrid drops 20 milligram thc per mil and im waiting on some of there cbd drops .
tilray is using grape seed oil for these batches . i havent really had a chance to trying a good dose yet . im liking the idea of medicating without smoking or vaping .
but also a little apprehensive about how i may react to edible forms of cannabis . i havnt had to much experience with eating it . a couple times long ago, but i want to be a little careful with it at first . i did try just a .25 of a mil which should be a 5 mg dose just the other night i think i did feel some effect even though such a small dose , i also vaped a few times during and noticed a reduction in pain that surprised me quite a bit i will be doing more experimenting with these oils for sure .

 

[mikek9]

any updates on effects ? is the 10:1 thc to cbd ? i have just got some of tilrays hybrid drops 20 milligram thc per mil and im waiting on some of there cbd drops .
tilray is using grape seed oil for these batches . i havent really had a chance to trying a good dose yet . im liking the idea of medicating without smoking or vaping .
but also a little apprehensive about how i may react to edible forms of cannabis . i havnt had to much experience with eating it . a couple times long ago, but i want to be a little careful with it at first . i did try just a .25 of a mil which should be a 5 mg dose just the other night i think i did feel some effect even though such a small dose , i also vaped a few times during and noticed a reduction in pain that surprised me quite a bit i will be doing more experimenting with these oils for sure .

well, it's 6:30 right now and I am still feeling the effects. I would say within about 15 mins I thought I could feel a little tingle and then around 30 mins I felt that same tingle again with some anxiety, though this could possibly be from my anticipation as well. Around an hour I reached a point where it was helping to manage the pain I have been enduring recently. It peaked around the 2 hour mark and has been going strong since. I haven't vaporized yet today and am waiting a little more as I don't want to blast off into space or anything.

I had 5ml of the oil concentrated at 18mg/ml so my dose was about 90mg of THC. I feel I could probably handle 10ml and still have some room to go, so around 180mg. I don't want to jump right to 15ml in case its too much because that is triple the starting dose and I don't want to feel any ill effects.

I will report any updates when I experiment further

 

[theCerberus]

any updates on effects ? is the 10:1 thc to cbd ? i have just got some of tilrays hybrid drops 20 milligram thc per mil and im waiting on some of there cbd drops .
tilray is using grape seed oil for these batches . i havent really had a chance to trying a good dose yet . im liking the idea of medicating without smoking or vaping .
but also a little apprehensive about how i may react to edible forms of cannabis . i havnt had to much experience with eating it . a couple times long ago, but i want to be a little careful with it at first . i did try just a .25 of a mil which should be a 5 mg dose just the other night i think i did feel some effect even though such a small dose , i also vaped a few times during and noticed a reduction in pain that surprised me quite a bit i will be doing more experimenting with these oils for sure .

I believe 10:1 means there is 10g of flower in 1 bottle.

The Tilray products seem oddly priced and putting 7g in a bottle makes no logical sense.
Tilray also has the highest THC%'s in the market for the flower (>30%) but the oil has a relatively low amount of THC mg (500mg max).
There is no way to buy your entire script in oil if thats what you want.
If your script is 1g/day (30g/month) the best you can do is 28g.
If your script is 2g/day (60g/month) the best you can do is 56g.
If you wanted to fill the last 2-4g its impossible because the rest of the cannabis is packaged in 5g increments.

Mettrum also sells oil which is made from 5g of cannabis.

You can calculate the amount of THC in mg by the % THC of the flower.
For example 10g of 18% THC cannabis should yield 1800mg of THC.
or 5g of 20% THC cannabis should yield 1000 mg of THC.

Mettrum and Tweed come out to exact numbers of THC % when the strain is compared to the mg yield.
Tilray's numbers are bananas.

Tweeds prices are odd too. There is about the same amount of THC in the Jack Herer oil and the Ghost Train Haze oil, but it costs $30 less.

 

[chris 71]

theCerberus i know its kind of ridiculous the way the whole thing is set up .
now tilray is also selling there products only in the larger package size for some strains . they say this is because they have run out of the smaller prepack size . but if they dont fix it soon its probably gonna hurt there sales. i have never been able to fill my whole script its just to expensive . luckly with vaping i have been able to make do . as much as i like the products i really hate the pricing . i can only imagine what will happen once legalization happens .
they will be sold out again for a year i would guess . i did try making my own butter once it turned out great but i didnt drain the sludge off properly and it went moldy . also to make the butter there is a lot of heat involved . not sure how this effects all the terps and what not in the butter . i like the option of these lp oils that are done with cold extraction making sure we get the most of the good stuff . but yes pricing is not something i like and a bunch of other issues with them as well but its still a nice option. looking a little closer i think the 10:1 is the amount that can be dosed with the syringe 1 to 10 ml

 

[mikek9]

theCerberus i know its kind of ridiculous the way the whole thing is set up .
now tilray is also selling there products only in the larger package size for some strains . they say this is because they have run out of the smaller prepack size . but if they dont fix it soon its probably gonna hurt there sales. i have never been able to fill my whole script its just to expensive . luckly with vaping i have been able to make do . as much as i like the products i really hate the pricing . i can only imagine what will happen once legalization happens .
they will be sold out again for a year i would guess . i did try making my own butter once it turned out great but i didnt drain the sludge off properly and it went moldy . also to make the butter there is a lot of heat involved . not sure how this effects all the terps and what not in the butter . i like the option of these lp oils that are done with cold extraction making sure we get the most of the good stuff . but yes pricing is not something i like and a bunch of other issues with them as well but its still a nice option. looking a little closer i think the 10:1 is the amount that can be dosed with the syringe 1 to 10 ml

The 10:1 means 10ml = 1 gram of dried cannabis.

 

[Genki88]

@mikek9 so how did the rest of your night go?

 

[chris 71]

The 10:1 means 10ml = 1 gram of dried cannabis.

mikek9 my bottles say 3.6 ml = 1 gram . this is for both the hybrid 20mg thc per ml and the cbd drops which have 7 mg thc and 11.6 mg cbd per ml.
im very impressed with how this stuff is working for me . this morning i went to work and my back was soo bad i didnt know if i was going to make it till noon , quit time for friday

anyway i took two extra strength tylonal which only partial work for me when my back is this bad , and 1 ml of the cbd/thc drops . i cant belive how well this has worked . i never really found cannabis to be that effective for pain for me through smoking or vaping . maybe a bit of distraction from the pain but not like opiod pain meds . anyway this ingesting seems to be a whole different ball game for me . it worked very well .

 

[mikek9]

@mikek9 so how did the rest of your night go?

The rest of the night went well. The effects maintained their strength for hours. It was a really hazy like effect that sort of distorted time, it just seemed to fly by whereas for me it often seems to just drag on.

Around 6:40 I decided to vape a little as the pain was beginning to worsen as it usually does at that time of the day. I vaped a 0.25 in the herbalAire and let me say, it was overpowering. My usually starting dose is usually around a 0.3-0.5g and I never get to a level I got to last night. I think the dosage I took was really just about right if you wanted to keep vaping at the same time.

I need to work around with the dosages a little more to see what is just about right. I still feel if I wanted that edible only buzz then I would of needed to ingest probably twice what I did, so the next test is probably going to be 10ml with fingers crossed it isn't overkill.

mikek9 my bottles say 3.6 ml = 1 gram . this is for both the hybrid 20mg thc per ml and the cbd drops which have 7 mg thc and 11.6 mg cbd per ml.
im very impressed with how this stuff is working for me . this morning i went to work and my back was soo bad i didnt know if i was going to make it till noon , quit time for friday

anyway i took two extra strength tylonal which only partial work for me when my back is this bad , and 1 ml of the cbd/thc drops . i cant belive how well this has worked . i never really found cannabis to be that effective for pain for me through smoking or vaping . maybe a bit of distraction from the pain but not like opiod pain meds . anyway this ingesting seems to be a whole different ball game for me . it worked very well .

I also agree that the pain relief was significantly better than when just vaping alone. I find I get about 30-45 mins of pain relief when vaping as opposed to probably a solid 4-5 hours as I did last night.

I also agree that it seemed to work on the pain directly like an actual pain killer does. I find when vaping I tend to dissociate from the pain more than the pain itself being helped. Though this could be a dosage thing and with more likely the same pain relief can be achieved.

It really started to dull some quite severe pain I was having and actually helped to make my joint feel comfortable. I have severe tmj oesteoarthritis so the pain can be significant some days. I didn't need to take my oxycodone as prescribed as I was managing fairly well.

 

[Mainoffender]

Thanks for relaying your experiences guys. I'm a Tilray patient too and wondered about these drops. I find Tilray infuriating some times but the other LP's have their drawbacks too. Do you know of any other forums for patients to discuss in? I see reviews of strains here and there but thought there might be a forum set up for MMPR patients to discuss in?

 

[mikek9]

Thanks for relaying your experiences guys. I'm a Tilray patient too and wondered about these drops. I find Tilray infuriating some times but the other LP's have their drawbacks too. Do you know of any other forums for patients to discuss in? I see reviews of strains here and there but thought there might be a forum set up for MMPR patients to discuss in?

Have you seen lift.ca ? It's an MMPR patient centred site with LP strain reviews. Many patients that use it are new to cannabis so you have to take some of the 5 star ratings lightly. You get a feel for those that know what they are talking about and it can be a decent resource. There is another website called canvasrx.com but it seems lift is the better alternative as they offer points for reviews that can be redeemed for free cannabis from participating producers and other products

This place, fuckcombustion medical forum, and Reddit are the two sites I have used and been able to connect with fellow MMPR/MMAR patients. It would be great to have a more active forum or even more patients participating in the discussion here.

 

[Mainoffender]

Like you I use those as resources but thought with 40,000 patients and counting there might be a place dedicated to discussing the LP's. Tired of reading reviews that are biased against the LP's. None of us like this system but it's all we've got right now. I notice this morning Tilray's sold out of all but one of their oils. That didn't take long.

 

[theCerberus]

I think a lot of those 40k patients are not ordering anything from LPs and just want legal proof that they use cannabis medically. A lot of people (in Ontario and BC especially) use the scripts to get access through dispensaries instead.
Last I talked to Tilray they said to me that the majority of their patients have not ordered anything since they signed up.
So what we have is inexperienced users accepting low quality cannabis because they have never tried anything better. A lot of these patients are getting away from opiates and have never built a tolerance to cannabis. They dont have any knowledge of what strains are supposed to smell like or what different levels of shelf quality are.
Some of these clowns even believe strain names are completely made up and have no bearing on the product you receive.
Even the LPs themselves do not know when they are producing mids because they are investor groups and not experienced cannabis users/growers.

Lift.ca is not a reflection of those 40k patients, as I have heard from LPs, the majority of them reject the MMPR system and are likely using dispensaries. It is only a reflection of those patients who accept the system, which is inherently a problem.

 

[Mainoffender]

The problem with dispensaries is some are acting more and more like LP's. Mid grade product for $11 and $12/gm. I still go to Tilray for their premium flowers. IMHO the best I've been able to find so i bite the bullet and pay. I see they've lowered their prices on a few 18-20% strains to $8 and $9/gm. Probably trying to undercut the dispensaries. Not giving up on dispensaries altogether but just as discouraged by them as I am the LP's. Hope the feds come up with a sane solution to the MMPR before I renew in September.

 

[mikek9]

we should move this conversation over to the dispensaries vs LPs thread.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/dispensary-vs-lps-canadian-licensed-producers.20059/

 

[Genki88]

Omg.......Princeton "Ghost Train Haze" oil is so tasty and strong....

 

[mikek9]

Omg.......Princeton "Ghost Train Haze" oil is so tasty and strong....

That's probably the next one I am going to buy. It is a little pricey though at $155 a bottle. The jack herer was a more reasonable $125 and the argyle oil is the best price around $100 but it has a relatively low concentration.

How much have you played with the dosage?