Obamacare

[Tea Party]

I mean that no one survives life, eventually everyone dies.

 

[Vicki]

I mean that no one survives life, eventually everyone dies.

I was talking about the "get over it part." Can you please? That's what I want you to explain. That is the part that made me think you just wanted me to give up and die, especially saying it in response to my questions as to what sick people, including children, are supposed to do if this bill were to be repealed. It really disturbed me.

 

[Tea Party]

What did the children do 50 years ago?

 

[Vicki]

What did the children do 50 years ago?

That's not what I asked you,can you please answer the question I posed to you?

 

[Tea Party]

Every person out there gets sick. Hell some people get sick and even after $1,000 in tests ( with insurance at a college clinic) the doctor can't figure out what is wrong and do nothing but give you a general antibiotic and tell you to eat food and rest.

Some live, some die. It's the way it has always been and it's the way it will be, it's nature.

 

[Vicki]

Every person out there gets sick. Hell some people get sick and even after $1,000 in tests ( with insurance at a college clinic) the doctor can't figure out what is wrong and do nothing but give you a general antibiotic and tell you to eat food and rest.

Some live, some die. It's the way it has always been and it's the way it will be, it's nature.

You are not telling me anything I don't know. How does this answer my question? Your "get over it" comment in response to what sick people would do if they lost their health insurance to pre-existing conditions is appalling and cold as hell. Are you trying to say "well, people die, so if they lose their health insurance benefits and die, it's just nature, get over it?" Again, just looking for clarification since you said I took your comment out of context.

 

[Tea Party]

What's the solution then vicki? we have medicade for the poor and they abuse the ever living shit out of it, they go to the ER any time they have a sniffle. Sure lefts just giving every American their own fucking doctor. That way the human race can weaken it self even faster and the liberals will be happy as hell.

 

[Vicki]

I don't have a solution, and that's not what I asked you. I really need some clarification because you said I took your comment out of context, right? You said I accused you of saying something distasteful, and I offended you. When you said "get over it, it's nature," did you mean "people die, so if they lose their health insurance and die, it's just part of nature?" If that's not what you meant, please help me understand what you really meant, please.

 

[lwien]

Vicki, a suggestion. After the statement that Tea Party made above, debating ANYTHING with him is an exercise in futility. It's not worth the effort. The ONLY reason to enter into any debate is the opportunity to learn something from someone who has a different point of view. There is really nothing to learn from someone who is devoid of empathy and compassion. His blanket generalization that the poor abuses medicare is a case in point. Sure there are abuses, but to make a general statement like that is totally false, but that's what happens when anyone buys into the dogma. It happens on both the right...........and the left, and debating anything with someone who is that dogmatic can only end in frustration. It's not worth the energy, Vicki.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Okay, so for the people that think personal responsibility is the answer, let's apply that to health care. That is, anybody with a BMI >22 (mine is 21.9, by the way) does not get ANY healthcare.

 

[Vicki]

Vicki, a suggestion. After the statement that Tea Party made above, debating ANYTHING with him is an exercise in futility. It's not worth the effort. The ONLY reason to enter into any debate is the opportunity to learn something from someone who has a different point of view. There is really nothing to learn from someone who is devoid of empathy and compassion. His blanket generalization that the poor abuses medicare is a case in point. Sure there are abuses, but to make a general statement like that is totally false, but that's what happens when anyone buys into the dogma. It happens on both the right...........and the left, and debating anything with someone who is that dogmatic can only end in frustration. It's not worth the energy, Vicki.

You're right, but I was just trying to get him to clarify his statement since he said I offended him by accusing him of saying something he didn't say, by saying something distasteful. If that is the case, he can explain to me what he really meant with his comment, "get over it, it's nature." If he didn't mean "people die, so if they lose their health insurance and die, it's just part of nature," what exactly DID he mean? Tea Party?

 

[dannkk]

I never said I didn't care about the rest of the bill. Go back and re-read. I said I was not for the mandate. I merely said I am happy I am now protected. How can you bash me for that, and only that? That makes no sense to me. I called people heartless because I was being likened to a terrorist, and that is FUCKED UP, and heartless!!

Page 1

I don't give a rats ass about politics. What I do care about is my health.

Page 8

I don't like the mandate, I really don't.

Up until page 8, you did nothing but argue for this bill. Can't blame us for you not making your feelings clear until this late in the discussion.

You also seriously missed my point if you thought I was calling you a terrorist. You said people that disagreed with you are heartless. Saying that is the same as when Bush said drug users supported terrorism. Or when you're told that if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. Or that you hate gay people or are a bigot if you're against gay marriage. I'M NOT TALKING TO YOU, THESE ARE EXAMPLES...just to be clear this time.

 

[dannkk]

His blanket generalization that the poor abuses medicare is a case in point. Sure there are abuses, but to make a general statement like that is totally false, but that's what happens when anyone buys into the dogma.

This is very true. Case in point, Florida. Florida started drug testing all recipients of welfare. Going by the stereotype you'd think, damn, sweet, they're gonna save a lot of money. Get rid of half those people on welfare that are just drug addict mothers with 18 kids. Something like 1.2% tested positive and were denied further services. State actually lost money testing everyone.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Okay, so for the people that think personal responsibility is the answer, let's apply that to health care. That is, anybody with a BMI >22 (mine is 21.9, by the way) does not get ANY healthcare.

How about a better scenario for you?

42 years old hit by catastrophic aneurysm, that developed into both an ascending and descending Aortic Dissection (3% chance of survival). I was awake and stretching at the time. Felt like someone hit me with a sledgehammer. Stumbling down the hall to my bedroom and waking my wife, is the last thing I clearly remember.

In the ER, I was supposedly coherent enough to answer all their questions. Unfortunately, they didn't know what was wrong. I was presenting conflicting symptoms, one of which was like 36/18 BP. Finally after complaining about the pain in my lower back again, a light bulb went off in a doctor's head. He ordered a CT Scan (already had one) but asked for contrast/iodine.

There they saw a 6 cm aneurysm at the aortic arch, that had torn up to the top of both carotids... across my chest, to the top of my heart. Out the bottom of my heart, down to both of my kidneys and into my midsection (where all the spinal blood is supplied). It continues and stops just short of my right femoral artery.

If you don't know. The aorta is 3 layers. A dissection is when the inner layer tears and blood pressure forces the tear, to keep tearing. Mine tore in a spiral fashion (think of the cardboard paper towels are wrapped around).

After 13 hours of surgery, including 36 minutes of no blood flow to my heart an estimated "dozens to literally hundreds of mini-strokes" and two (one pre one post) major strokes... I laid in and out of consciousness for over a week. Guess I was pretty entertaining though. I was convinced the government was there to take me out and the nurses were armed. After becoming coherent, I found out, I'm a walking corpse. At least that's how doctors look and talk to me. "You shouldn't be here..." being the most popular phrase... for the last 3 (almost) years.

At 42 years old, I was told I may live 2 to 10 years more. I am forbidden from lifting more than 10-15 pounds (even though I regularly worked out prior to this). Bringing in groceries, I can feel the pressure in my chest. Anything that causes "sheering" (basically anything that causes you to bear down on core muscles)... will more than likely kill me.

My vision habitually blurs. Take your fingers, rub your eyes for a minute or so. Now open and look around. I can go an hour with vision like that... sometimes, 3 or 4 times a day. You ever stand up too fast and get vertigo? Try it, every single time you stand up... no matter how fast, or slow you do. Sometimes, just turning my head can trigger it.

That's the condensed version of my medical issues. I only really touched on the problems of living with pharmaceutical (un)controlled blood pressure that drops as low as 64/35 and spikes up in the 140s (anything over 110 is potentially fatal, for me). I'm supposed to stay around 95-105 systolic (hell of a sparse range there).

So, how many insurance companies would accept my pre-existing condition? I could probably compile a list, right now. ZERO. I had insurance at the time, but they haven't ever paid all my bills and when I was terminated from my job, I lost the insurance. But, really... does it really matter? They extended my life by a few years... but, there aren't any more go-arounds. I can't/won't survive another and they won't go into repair, as its 100% mortality on the operating table.

I think ObamaTax is a travesty and @#$%ing massive invasion of government intrusion into our lives. It creates a MASSIVE new bureaucracy (many actually) and is massive new debt. I would have rather died, than to put this SHIT onto my children.

Oh yeah message to you all, take the "scare-tactics", "paranoid", "close-minded" "intolerant" right-winger crap and blow it out your ass. The left, invented it, perfected it and live in it, hypocrites.

My pre-existing condition may be a moot point to you, that's why you don't want to talk about it anymore? It is NOT a moot point to ME, but you keep missing that point. Why can't you answer the questions? Do you think it's ok to deny people due to pre-existing conditions?

You were saying, about pre-existing conditions?

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Why's the USA so upset about things which work well in other countries?

Really... so why do they come here for care? Why are both Canada and Britain looking to privatize more and more of their healthcare?

Also:

Very funny.

And yet... nothing to back it up. Deflect, Dismiss, Belittle, Ignore... lib mantra.

FAIL.

Either add to the discussion, or be singled out and ridiculed, every single time.

Vicki, a suggestion. After the statement that Tea Party made above, debating ANYTHING with him is an exercise in futility. It's not worth the effort. The ONLY reason to enter into any debate is the opportunity to learn something from someone who has a different point of view. There is really nothing to learn from someone who is devoid of empathy and compassion. His blanket generalization that the poor abuses medicare is a case in point. Sure there are abuses, but to make a general statement like that is totally false, but that's what happens when anyone buys into the dogma. It happens on both the right...........and the left, and debating anything with someone who is that dogmatic can only end in frustration. It's not worth the energy, Vicki.

Funny. Go look up the difference in what Republicans give (time and money) to charity and those less fortunate compared to Democrats.

I can already tell you. Its ugly and embarrassing (for your side). Hell, look how much Joe Biden has helped out the less unfortunate.

How about another example. This week, Romney sent out a "campaign" email. In it... he asked for people to send stuff to people in COLORADO. He asked for funds to be sent to them, supplies, prayers.

What'd Obama ask for in his this week? To keep cool and buy an Obama Tank Top for $30.

I can keep listing and keep shooting that crap down.

Always reminds me of the old saying about teaching a man to fish. Liberals, think creating some entitlement program, that wastes billions of dollars and doesn't do a @#$%ing thing for the actual problem, is "helping". You'd rather keep giving the guy a fish, so he worships at the alter of liberalism and keeps voting for you.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

BDV - and yet, correct me if i'm wrong, the way i read your posts in this thread, you seem like you would be pissed to live in a society that acknowledges you are not to blame for your physical condition and attempts to help you, and doesn't hold your family financially responsible for a situation that is nobody's fault -- just a particularly difficult path on the road of life.

Obamacare is merely the first step forward to that society.

 

[Vicki]

BDV - and yet, correct me if i'm wrong, the way i read your posts in this thread, you seem like you would be pissed to live in a society that acknowledges you are not to blame for your physical condition and attempts to help you, and doesn't hold your family financially responsible for a situation that is nobody's fault -- just a particularly difficult path on the road of life.

Obamacare is merely the first step forward to that society.

I agree! It does not make sense to me.

I would be happy if parts of this bill were repealed (especially the mandate), as long as they kept the pre-existing conditions clause. If someone else with a pre-existing condition(s) wants to oppose this bill, that is their business, and I will not bad mouth them for their choice. I would appreciate it if others would leave me alone to be happy that I am now protected from being dropped for my own pre-existing conditions.

I don't understand the hatred and ridicule towards people in this thread, and me. Being mean and nasty towards people because they made a choice. People being bad mouthed for a simple choice. People being ridiculed for their choice, in the name of politics? It's inhumane and cruel.

 

[Makai]

Really... so why do they come here for care? Why are both Canada and Britain looking to privatize more and more of their healthcare?

I strongly doubt Germans come to the USA for healthcare. Unless they want bigger tits maybe. We have the latest products in medical technology, a healthy competition between doctors and infant mortality is significantly lower while the per capita healthcare costs are lower in Germany than in the USA.

And yet... nothing to back it up. Deflect, Dismiss, Belittle, Ignore... lib mantra.

FAIL.

Either add to the discussion, or be singled out and ridiculed, every single time.

I don't need to back up that FOX News is not news but more like entertainment for people with certain political views. It's basically the same as Russia Today, just with different agenda. It's as much news as the reefer madness propaganda campaigns in the USA were political education.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

BDV - and yet, correct me if i'm wrong, the way i read your posts in this thread, you seem like you would be pissed to live in a society that acknowledges you are not to blame for your physical condition and attempts to help you, and doesn't hold your family financially responsible for a situation that is nobody's fault -- just a particularly difficult path on the road of life.

Obamacare is merely the first step forward to that society.

No it isn't and that's the problem. You all don't have any idea what's in this bill. Once again... Its not what you want, nor think it its.

For the final time read the fucking thing. Not the little parts you want to read. Read how its funded. Read the absolute open book the feds have on you. Learn who their fucking enforcement agency is. Learn how it gives them COMPLETE CONTROL over your life. Before anyone thinks of the scare tactics response.. Think long and hard... I will shove that argument where you don't want.

God, don't be so gullible. You people hear whatever the fuck you want and its all you regurgitate. I DO NOT WANT THE FUCKING FEDS RUNNING MY LIFE! Get it?

 

[lwien]

^^ Such anger. Such angst. Relax, man. You have your perspective on the bill, others have theirs.
As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Rick came on here and did a dump in one of his posts, but EVERY one of yours is just ranting anger at those who don't happen to share your views on this. Get over it BDV. Some will share your views while others won't. Kinda the way things work, eh?

It's called checks and balances and I thank God that there's not a universal thought on ANY issue including this one.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

I strongly doubt Germans come to the USA for healthcare. Unless they want bigger tits maybe. We have the latest products in medical technology, a healthy competition between doctors and infant mortality is significantly lower while the per capita healthcare costs are lower in Germany than in the USA.

No Competition in socialized medicine. Lie duly noted.

I don't need to back up that FOX News is not news but more like entertainment for people with certain political views. It's basically the same as Russia Today, just with different agenda. It's as much news as the reefer madness propaganda campaigns in the USA were political education.

Yes, you do actually.

Deflection and dismissal noted. Still can't back it up with anything other than leftist propaganda.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

^^ Such anger. Such angst. Relax, man. You have your perspective on the bill, others have theirs.

No anger, lwien and piss off with the accusation and other belittling comment. I'm just speaking my mind. Sorry, if its too blunt for you. Anger would kill me. I'm far more in control of my emotions, than you've probably ever dreamed.

I just don't have any patience for stupidity/ignorance.

As with most things, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

And yet, you can't show the middle. Because there isn't one.

Rick came on here and did a dump in one of his posts, but EVERY one of yours is just ranting anger at those who don't happen to share your views on this. Get over it BDV. Some will share your views while others won't. Kinda the way things work, eh?

Again, no... you're wrong lwien. Hyperbole won't win you an argument/debate either. Don't bother cutting and pasting either. You'll just pick and choose what.

Don't worry about. As with Rick, I'm leaving this conversation. I'm tired of debating people that won't do the simplest of things. Find out what's in the bill for yourself, instead of relying on the people that suckered you into believing it. That's what I did.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

anything other than leftist propaganda

it's all propaganda ... moot point, eh?

so it's a choice between the corporations owning/running my ass or the Feds ... hmmmmm, my choice, i'll take the Feds.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

BTW, lwien. You have been the most guilty of anyone in this thread of avoiding answering questions. Dismissing points made, deflecting uncomfortable facts and ignoring others.

When you come with just a shred of honesty... we'll talk more.

it's all propaganda ... moot point, eh?

so it's a choice between the corporations owning/running my ass or the Feds ... hmmmmm, my choice, i'll take the Feds.

Wow. Trusting soul you are. Good luck with that.

 

[lwien]

I just don't have any patience for stupidity/ignorance.

So let's see. Everyone that doesn't agree with your perspective on this is either stupid or ignorant or both, right?

Now THAT is THE definition of dogma and for me, I will reject that no matter what side of the coin it comes from.

But I will say this, DBV. You fit the Tea Party mold. Everything is in black and white with absolutely no shades of gray.