Nose Bleeds

[FlyingLow]

Any Physicians on these forums? Any ENTs out there??


Just returned from the ER yesterday. It seems one of my previous surgeries this month left me with a large hole in my septum and EVERY time I try to vape, results in faucet-like blood flow from my nose.

I look like poor Marvin from Pulp Fiction, and my house, garage and bathrooms look like Freddy's last victim was found within.



The specialist said it MJ is the root of the cause and every time I vape will result in heavy nose bleeds.
Anyone ever heard or experience this?

I am fucking TERRIFIED and so scared at the thought of loosing vaping.

 

[CarolKing]

Most Physician will put cannabis down and blame it for everything. I'm not a doctor, just a cannabis user. It does dry your mouth, throat and the nasal passages get dryer. Make sure you drink lots of water to stay hydrated. I don't want to worry you but maybe the doc is at fault that did the surgery. Does your surgeon know that you vaporize? I wouldn't tell him if he doesn't know.. He would just blame the vaporizing. I understand you told the ER doctor.

Cannabis could be the cause but maybe it's not?

Good luck, hopefully this will just be a short term problem. Did they do anything for you when you went in?

Vaporizing wouldn't cause a hole. The doc needs to fix the hole.

EDIT
When you resume vaporizing, keep the heat down.

 

[blankexpression]

Bullshit.

 

[Skyscraper]

Damn man.. I wish I could give you an educated and uplifting answer, but I'm just a layperson.
Since you recently had surgery, is this something that may heal in time and you won't have to throw in the towel forever?
Just like when you have a tooth pulled, there's a chance of dry socket from making any suction with the mouth, especially smoking where the particles can irritate the socket..

Best of luck to you, FlyingLow.
I always like to think that many things come and go. Even times when I can't use MJ are easier to deal with knowing that there will always be a time for herb. The herb will be there when you're ready. I can't say the same for some of my ex-girlfriends though.

Maybe it's not MJ per se, but your route of ingestion? Edibles/tincture use could be a possibility?

 

[DDave]

Any Physicians on these forums? Any ENTs out there??


Just returned from the ER yesterday. It seems one of my previous surgeries this month left me with a large hole in my septum and EVERY time I try to vape, results in faucet-like blood flow from my nose.

I look like poor Marvin from Pulp Fiction, and my house, garage and bathrooms look like Freddy's last victim was found within.



The specialist said it MJ is the root of the cause and every time I vape will result in heavy nose bleeds.
Anyone ever heard or experience this?

I am fucking TERRIFIED and so scared at the thought of loosing vaping.

I'm sorry to hear of this! Anything that stops one from vaping sucks, regardless of reason!

I am going to take a guess at the cause being a 'restricted draw'. If not, simply the act of breathing through your mouth would trigger the event.

What vapes do you use when this occurs?

Do you have access to a non-restrictive vape - at least to test out the theory.

Best wishes on finding a solution!

 

[max]

The specialist said it MJ is the root of the cause .....

Funny that a specialist is so sure that vaping is a cause of nosebleeds, while I've 1- never heard of this so-called connection, and 2-can't find any info that backs it up. If it's a factor, I'd say you'd have to have something else going on, or it's associated with vaping, like coughing.

and every time I vape will result in heavy nose bleeds.

This is most assuredly BS, since there's no way he can know that, and I think it also shows a clear bias against cannabis.

My advice? Get another opinion. I was told a few years ago by an orthopedic surgeon that I needed surgery to fix a partially torn thumb ligament. My 2nd opinion doc, after looking at the MRI, asked me 'a hand doc really told you that you need surgery?'. It healed just fine in a few months.

 

[Melting Pot]

My opinion would be maybe you are holding hits to hard and causing damage do to your recent procedures.
Just take it easy.
I know after my procedures. Just minimal vaping was hard on me.
Moderation is the key along with hydration low temp for a while. Jmo
I hope you feel better

 

[killick]

Yow! Really sorry to hear about your issues! I'm not an EMT or anything remotely like it, but after thinking about it there are loads of ways to destrict vaping, bags being one. I can't quite understand why your doc would say that, either, and hope someone with some med smarts jumps in, because a bunch of us are on your side and want this to work out!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Preface: I have no medical qualifications, and this is all speculation.

Did he say what about cannabis is the "root cause" of it? Is it the vapor irritating your nasal passages, a change in blood pressure/heart rate, the drying out / congesting effect of cannabis on the mouth and nasal passages (sometimes it seems to clear the nasal passages and sometimes they can get very stuffy and constricted)? If you knew, you would be better able to address the problem. If it is a side effect from irritation, holding in hits, or coughing really hard, it should be easier to fix than if it is a chemical issue.

Does this happen on edibles? What about if you take one large dab to get very high without taking much time to do so? Will you bleed on the first hit, or is it the irritation from a longer session? On the contrast, would a longer but smoother and lighter session possibly be helpful?


Good luck with this issue, man. I hope it gets resolved quickly, and with a pleasant result.

 

[CarolKing]

If your nose is healed up from the surgery maybe you could use a little coconut oil to help if it's too dry. Again I'm no medical professional. Usually a bloody nose is from the blood vessels getting irritated in the nose, with some people it doesn't take much. You maybe are more prone to bloody noses now but that doesn't mean you will have to stop cannabis. You will just need to be careful.

Maybe for a few days use some edibles.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

Sorry to hear about you condition. Just a layperson and wish I had anything too add. Other than the irritation and coughing which could exacerbate an existing condition and the level of heat. Like the other posters mentioned.
Just spit-balling here. From your earlier posts, I'm aware that you favor off the grid vapes. So perhaps the method you need to draw in, might be a factor or the thing you doctor might actually be touching upon. Have him clarify if it is the MJ causing direct irritation or the draw resistance that is squeezing your nasal tissue. If he just repeats what he says earlier with no clarification then I would be a little more skeptical. I do agree with the points @CarolKing was bring up about dryness with some of your off the grid vapes.

Once you have healed more. you might want to look into much gentler passive vapor options and resist anything that requires any pulling on your part to be effective.
Maybe getting something that can fill bags and have a more passive delivery method. Also maybe rethink your draw and exhale technique.

Another angle. Is their any sort of physical therapy for your condition or any nasal condition for that matter? That might provide some sort of insight. I and others will definitely put our heads together here. We assure you. Right FCer's ? But at the very least a TB for a short duration might cause different sensations during the healing process. Try to analyze what you are experiencing and the type of healing that is occurring. Has you doctor made any mention of your ear canals and eustachian tubes during any of this?

Just a laymen putting his uneducated guesses. Hopefully someone will have some of the answers for you. Best of luck and a speedy recovery too you.

 

[FlyingLow]

Wow, I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses and I have answers but am on my way into the office and will not have time for a thorough response until I get home today.

I will respond to some of the individual posts tonight, and appreciate all the advice and lines of questions. In short, ER doc did insist that bleeding was caused by blood pressure and MJ sent it way up. It bleeds moments after the first hit, no matter concentrate or flower. It also now bleeds when I get stressed (found that out yesterday), and even if I ever so gently push out a poop... how embarrassing!

It is no ordinary nose bleed, but flows like the river they filmed Deliverance on. Lost 2 pints of blood on Saturday and more on Sunday.

More info to come, including ENT's comments from this morning (very positive news re vaping)

...but still in much pain, and wont be any better for another month or two or three or four- estimate for recovery was 13 weeks from today.

 

[h3rbalist]

Sorry to read this FlyingLow.

Glad things are moving in a more positive direction though.

Good luck with your recovery.

 

[Joel W.]

Most people only have 5 pints and can lose only a few before they faint. Be careful. I am no doctor but that sounds excessive.

I'd go with edibles until healed and get a second opinion in the meantime.

Hope you get better soon.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/470290-natural-foods-that-will-help-thicken-blood/#page=1

 

[howie105]

Any Physicians on these forums? Any ENTs out there??


Just returned from the ER yesterday. It seems one of my previous surgeries this month left me with a large hole in my septum and EVERY time I try to vape, results in faucet-like blood flow from my nose.

I look like poor Marvin from Pulp Fiction, and my house, garage and bathrooms look like Freddy's last victim was found within.



The specialist said it MJ is the root of the cause and every time I vape will result in heavy nose bleeds.
Anyone ever heard or experience this?

I am fucking TERRIFIED and so scared at the thought of loosing vaping.

Don't get medical advice off the web, don't settle for treatment that doesn’t address your medical needs and don't be afraid of seeking care from another practitioner.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Wow, I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses and I have answers but am on my way into the office and will not have time for a thorough response until I get home today.

I will respond to some of the individual posts tonight, and appreciate all the advice and lines of questions. In short, ER doc did insist that bleeding was caused by blood pressure and MJ sent it way up. It bleeds moments after the first hit, no matter concentrate or flower. It also now bleeds when I get stressed (found that out yesterday), and even if I ever so gently push out a poop... how embarrassing!

It is no ordinary nose bleed, but flows like the river they filmed Deliverance on. Lost 2 pints of blood on Saturday and more on Sunday.

More info to come, including ENT's comments from this morning (very positive news re vaping)

...but still in much pain, and wont be any better for another month or two or three or four- estimate for recovery was 13 weeks from today.

Damn, that's a lot of blood. I wonder if they'll recommend cauterizing the blood vessels that are being problematic.

 

[His_Highness]

I'm not a Dr. but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once

Seriously sorry to hear about this @FlyingLow ... Cauterizing is what I would have expected the ER would do if warranted and if possible to do without causing more issues with that level of blood flow.

I wonder if the change/increase in sinus pressure when vaping (Inhaling/Exhaling at a deeper and higher rate and holding it in) might be a bigger culprit than the MJ itself. I'm in agreement with the other posts that suggest edibles AND a second opinion.

Here's hoping you find a way to stop the bleeds AND still be able to medicate.

 

[DDave]

I'm not a Dr. but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once

Seriously sorry to hear about this @FlyingLow ... Cauterizing is what I would have expected the ER would do if warranted and if possible to do without causing more issues with that level of blood flow.

I wonder if the change/increase in sinus pressure when vaping (Inhaling/Exhaling at a deeper and higher rate and holding it in) might be a bigger culprit than the MJ itself. I'm in agreement with the other posts that suggest edibles AND a second opinion.

Here's hoping you find a way to stop the bleeds AND still be able to medicate.

Agreed!

http://www.newhealthguide.org/Nasal-Cauterization.html

 

[MinnBobber]

@FlyingLow
No DR but have studied mj effects.
In general, cannabis lowers blood pressure by expanding arteries which is usually a good thing BUT not for folks with a danger of bleeding (be it from an operation or meds they are on which make one susceptible to excess bleeding). For most folks, this is a good thing with minor impact (eyes may get red as expanded blood vessels allow more blood flow, etc. For your condition--bad thing.
So, strike one unfortunately.

Cannabis also usually causes an increased heart rate, for a short period of time and as you are active it comes back down. For most, no big deal. For you, likely a one - two punch with increased blood flow AND increased heart rate. Over the edge and bloody nose RIGHT NOW.
Strike two--- bummer.

Would edibles work-???
Effect is the same but because edibles impact ramps up from zero, rather than hits in a very short timeframe from vaping, it might be different.
Edibles THC 11 is also different from vaped THC as liver converts it to different form which is a stronger form BUT are side effects much different??? Don't know.

Sorry to hear, bummer---hope the nose bleeds stop!!

 

[His_Highness]

@FlyingLow
No DR but have studied mj effects.
In general, cannabis lowers blood pressure by expanding arteries which is usually a good thing BUT not for folks with a danger of bleeding (be it from an operation or meds they are on which make one susceptible to excess bleeding). For most folks, this is a good thing with minor impact (eyes may get red as expanded blood vessels allow more blood flow, etc. For your condition--bad thing.
So, strike one unfortunately.

Cannabis also usually causes an increased heart rate, for a short period of time and as you are active it comes back down. For most, no big deal. For you, likely a one - two punch with increased blood flow AND increased heart rate. Over the edge and bloody nose RIGHT NOW.
Strike two--- bummer.

Would edibles work-???
Effect is the same but because edibles impact ramps up from zero, rather than hits in a very short timeframe from vaping, it might be different.
Edibles THC 11 is also different from vaped THC as liver converts it to different form which is a stronger form BUT are side effects much different??? Don't know.

Sorry to hear, bummer---hope the nose bleeds stop!!

So maybe nasal combustion, er..I mean cauterization, is needed to seal the deal and the septum when using MJ in any way? Try convincing a doctor you need cauterization so you can keep medicating with MJ. Might need to find another reason as the cause.

 

[Joel W.]

So how are you doing now @FlyingLow ?

 

[FlyingLow]

Rough!
Sorry not to have updated...


So I was rushed back to the ER Tuesday before the sun came up, and was just released last night. Went into ER, they took me straight back and put me under anesthesia, surgeon/ENT went in and considering the history he just went ahead and cauterized everything he could see that was bleeding.

I woke up in the recovery room around 1 and they were collecting my belongings and ready to send me out the door to go home.... when all hell broke loose and the blood flowed once again- this time worse that all before and totally uncontrollable. Call back in the surgeon, he immediately brought back the anesthesiologist and they put me out as fast as they could and got me back onto the operating table.

Woke up around 4 and had been at the hospital ever sense.

As it turns out, I had ripped an artery in my sinus and could easily have lost too much blood had I not been at the hospital. HG counts dropped from 11, 10 to 9. This rip might have happened during one of the previous surgeries, or it might have been caused by a sneeze or blowing my nose too hard after surgery, no way to be sure.


Surgeon did confirm he wants me to avoid alcohol and drinking for a little bit, but did give me the green light to continue vaping! I am one thankful mother fucker. Tried to vape a little on the nail, and have tried some flower, but I think I may need about another week off before I will be comfortable and a little further from the pain.

Thanks for the support FC! I will post up any additional updates as they come up, but I am ready to rock and going to start taking better care of myself.

~FL

 

[His_Highness]

Happy for ya @FlyingLow !!! In fact, once I'm done with work for the day I'll make it my business to get even happier in your honor.

Congrats on being that upfront with your surgeon and running into a surgeon that sounds open minded.

Have a great, nosebleed free, weekend!

 

[FlyingLow]

Best ENT in the city, also happens to be cool as can be!

 

[howie105]

Rough!
Sorry not to have updated...


So I was rushed back to the ER Tuesday before the sun came up, and was just released last night. Went into ER, they took me straight back and put me under anesthesia, surgeon/ENT went in and considering the history he just went ahead and cauterized everything he could see that was bleeding.

I woke up in the recovery room around 1 and they were collecting my belongings and ready to send me out the door to go home.... when all hell broke loose and the blood flowed once again- this time worse that all before and totally uncontrollable. Call back in the surgeon, he immediately brought back the anesthesiologist and they put me out as fast as they could and got me back onto the operating table.

Woke up around 4 and had been at the hospital ever sense.

As it turns out, I had ripped an artery in my sinus and could easily have lost too much blood had I not been at the hospital. HG counts dropped from 11, 10 to 9. This rip might have happened during one of the previous surgeries, or it might have been caused by a sneeze or blowing my nose too hard after surgery, no way to be sure.


Surgeon did confirm he wants me to avoid alcohol and drinking for a little bit, but did give me the green light to continue vaping! I am one thankful mother fucker. Tried to vape a little on the nail, and have tried some flower, but I think I may need about another week off before I will be comfortable and a little further from the pain.

Thanks for the support FC! I will post up any additional updates as they come up, but I am ready to rock and going to start taking better care of myself.

~FL

Glad things are looking up and hope you get even better, soon. Hit one for you tonight.