Nickel and the safety of the Lotus

[Spj3k1]

Hi.

I am not saying one thing or another. But what do we know about the safety of Lotus and potential Nickel fumes in the airpath.

I know this has been discussed about copper, but cannot find much info on nickel. And as far as I can tell it is in the airpath right? Or am I wrong here?

I know alot of people go ballistic when these questions are asked, so if you don't want it discussed, don't partake. But some of us want to know as much as possible and not just go about speculations.

We are all trusting the makers 100% with out health. It should be ok to ask these questions.

 

[Arawfish]

Thanks for the welcome. I've been lurking for a while and the posts are usually quite thoughtful. It's a good site with a questionable name.

lwien said:
Now let the questions begin. I'll start. Would you say that there is absolutely no wood, metal or butane taste when using this vape? And, is the Lotus manufactured here or offshore?

There is no wood, metal or butane taste with the Lotus.
1 The air that goes past the wood is at room temperature.
2 I've had a lab test for nickel fumes (thin plate on top) and they are a small percentage of what is in normal air.
3 The inhalation air is drawn thru the little holes on the bottom of the heat exchanger, away from the flame. The flame fumes also go up because they are hot and low density.

The Lotus was designed here and will be built here. I'd like to see manufacturing return to the US, not leave.

NYC Vape asked:
Can you contrast your product vs. the VaporGenie?

The Vaporgenie and a lot of other torch powered vapes suck in the butane fumes along with the inhalation air. My objective in designing the Lotus was that there were to be no butane fumes inhaled. The original name of the Lotus was the Lotus Clean Air Vaporizer, but it was too long a name.

Lighters: The Lotus has to be used with a goose neck torch type lighter.
A Bic type lighter doesn't produce enough heat and when the flame hits the 'hot plate', it just dumps a bunch of soot on it.
The standard straight torch lighters don't work for very long when they are flipped upside down or past horizontal.
You could roll the Lotus on its side and use a straight torch lighter but then you only see the top with one eye and you lose depth perception.

pakalolo said:
Definitely portable, stealthy not so much. That's a comment not a criticism.

You're right. The Lotus comes in 2 stem lengths, 5 1/2" & 6 1/2", but it's definitely not as stealthy as the LB. I didn't want anyone to be worried about singing his/her nose with the torch.

 

[Spj3k1]

You can disagree, but I think it was laid out well in one of the drama threads: people come to places like Reddit or fc to get opinions from fellow enthusiasts as opposed to someone like Troy who (and in fairness he is upfront about this) make money off of their content and reach.

It’s hard to take that premise seriously when the same handful of people get early access and discounts to new devices—especially from a place as tough to acquired them from as Lamart—and their posts are only extremely positive. In the view of a lot of redditors it’s just turning into underground guerilla marketing, and that isn’t the direction people want the sub to go.

This probably isn’t the thread to have that conversation though. I’m just responding as I think it’s not as deranged as some people make it out to be. Personally I’m excited to try the Bakx, though I definitely agree that I’d prefer to see it with a built in mod—just for ergonomics and to not have to deal with calibration. But I’ll take what I can get, I think! I’ve been super impressed with my TP80!

So this is interesting. The part about lab test. But however, when was this done, at what lab, and what temps etc? This data should be available. And there should be more lab tests of these vapes so we know.

Specualtion on either side is unintetesting. Data is what I want.

 

[Arawfish]

So this is interesting. The part about lab test. But however, when was this done, at what lab, and what temps etc? This data should be available. And there should be more lab tests of these vapes so we know.

Specualtion on either side is unintetesting. Data is what I want.

Go get a lab test done then. Until that happens nobody can say anything in either direction and this conversation is over until then. Like I said this has been talked about before with the Nickel, you can go through the 300+ pages of the Lotus thread and find several instances where it was brought up but since none of that contains the data you’re looking for I think you should acquire it yourself if possible because I’d still be curious to see some definitive results.

Edit: I wonder if a blood test before using a lotus Vs. 2 months of daily usage would show any signs of the heavy metal in your bloodstream. I’ve used my Anvil and Vapman religiously for quite some time now and I haven’t noticed anything going wrong in my body, but do I know that for 100% sure? I guess not, no.

 

[Spj3k1]

As you

Go get a lab test done then. Until that happens nobody can say anything in either direction and this conversation is over until then. Like I said this has been talked about before with the Nickel, you can go through the 300+ pages of the Lotus thread and find several instances where it was brought up but since none of that contains the data you’re looking for I think you should acquire it yourself if possible because I’d still be curious to see some definitive results.

Edit: I wonder if a blood test before using a lotus Vs. 2 months of daily usage would show any signs of the heavy metal in your bloodstream.

1) This is exactly what I am doing dude. Not just with the Lotus, but other vapes as well, as part of a more objective and thurough testing program. We are however still trying to get the funds in place to do it as it is not cheap. So I am not sure if it is doble. But it is not just for me, it is also for you and everyone else.

2) No, most definately not. If so, the problem is huge wich I sincerely doubt. I would say it would be more likely decades.

3) Going through 300 pages if internet drama and snarky comments is not possible to find time to do on my life, so no thanks.

The Lotus is being re-released, so it has a bigger relevance now. I just don't get this whole overly negative tone whenever this comes up. If you partake in every single discussion about this here and on vaporents I get that it gets old. I don't, and as I said seeing the lotus is about to come back, this question must be ok to ask without all the offence?

However, thanks for the time. Nice to see that it has been lab tested, but still weird that the data was never public seeing these questions have been raise before

 

[Arawfish]

As you


1) This is exactly what I am doing dude. Not just with the Lotus, but other vapes as well, as part of a more objective and thurough testing program. We are however still trying to get the funds in place to do it as it is not cheap. So I am not sure if it is doble. But it is not just for me, it is also for you and everyone else.

2) No, most definately not. If so, the problem is huge wich I sincerely doubt. I would say it would be more likely decades.

3) Going through 300 pages if internet drama and snarky comments is not possible to find time to do on my life, so no thanks.

The Lotus is being re-released, so it has a bigger relevance now. I just don't get this whole overly negative tone whenever this comes up. If you partake in every single discussion about this here and on vaporents I get that it gets old. I don't, and as I said seeing the lotus is about to come back, this question must be ok to ask without all the offence?

However, thanks for the time. Nice to see that it has been lab tested, but still weird that the data was never public seeing these questions have been raise before

Well then I look forward to your results should they ever come to fruition.

 

[Timps27]

 

[Arawfish]

Damn, not available in Chinada!

 

[gordontreeman]

So this is interesting. The part about lab test. But however, when was this done, at what lab, and what temps etc? This data should be available. And there should be more lab tests of these vapes so we know.

Specualtion on either side is unintetesting. Data is what I want.

I think you quoted the wrong person. I don’t know anything about the material safety of the lotus (though briefly skimming I agree it’s a fair question in light of the re-release).

 

[GoldenBud]

Butane torch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"
Consumer air butane torches are often claimed to develop flame temperatures up to approximately 1,430 °C (2,610 °F). This temperature is high enough to melt many common metals, such as aluminum and copper, and hot enough to vaporize many organic compounds as well.
"

it will not melt Nickel, and it's 1430C in its hottest spot, the flame which conducts the Nickel it's not 1430C...
Nickel melting point is 1455C
but you don't use this large torch
so it's safe

the hottest part of small torch is not 1430C, maybe 1200C or less

 

[Spj3k1]

I think you quoted the wrong person. I don’t know anything about the material safety of the lotus (though briefly skimming I agree it’s a fair question in light of the re-release).

You are right. Some random references to this before was posted and I appearantly replies to the wrong one.

 

[Spj3k1]

Butane torch - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"
Consumer air butane torches are often claimed to develop flame temperatures up to approximately 1,430 °C (2,610 °F). This temperature is high enough to melt many common metals, such as aluminum and copper, and hot enough to vaporize many organic compounds as well.
"

it will not melt Nickel, and it's 1430C in its hottest spot, the flame which conducts the Nickel it's not 1430C...
Nickel melting point is 1455C
but you don't use this large torch
so it's safe

the hottest part of small torch is not 1430C, maybe 1200C or less

I was never concerned about melting nickel, but what about offgassing?

 

[GoldenBud]

I was never concerned about melting nickel, but what about offgassing?

boiling point of Nickel is 2730C, no need to worry, there's no vapor pressure even with the biggest torch

 

[Madtater]

Edit: I wonder if a blood test before using a lotus Vs. 2 months of daily usage would show any signs of the heavy metal in your bloodstream

As someone who is in a level 1 trauma center and has 23 years of medical diagnostic and therapeutic experience…..i would not recommend that.

Heavy metal in the body is NOT a good thing.

 

[Arawfish]

As someone who is in a level 1 trauma center and has 23 years of medical diagnostic and therapeutic experience…..i would not recommend that.

Heavy metal in the body is NOT a good thing.

What exactly do you think I’m going to do? Inject myself with heavy metals?

I was saying to have a blood analysis done on yourself before and after a period of time of usage with the Lotus and see if there’s any higher concentration on Nickel.

I’d be more worried about vapes like the Camouflet Convector. Y’all see that video of their (pretty sweet) new inductor? That thing makes the stainless fucking GLOW.

 

[Madtater]

What exactly do you think I’m going to do? Inject myself with heavy metals?

I was saying to have a blood analysis done on yourself before and after a period of time of usage with the Lotus and see if there’s any higher concentration on Nickel.

Ya: thats what i was sayiing.

Using it just to see if you get heavy metal in your blood is not the smartest thing.

If you think there will be heavy metal there, it would be wiser to test the device itself BEFORE using, not test your body after using it. You do what you want, it’s your body…..makes no difference to me.

 

[Arawfish]

Ya: thats what i was sayiing.

Using it just to see if you get heavy metal in your blood is not the smartest thing.

If you think there will be heavy metal there, it would be wiser to test the device itself BEFORE using, not test your body after using it.

Well it’s been in use for 13 years, you better let all those people know they’re doomed.

I’m not worried about it myself so in the name of science i could take one for the team and get some blood work done. I’m going to use it anyways and have 1 in the mail to me right now plus I got a preorder one that will be here in a couple months.

 

[Spj3k1]

boiling point of Nickel is 2730C, no need to worry, there's no vapor pressure even with the biggest torch

Well it’s been in use for 13 years, you better let all those people know they’re doomed.

I’m not worried about it myself so in the name of science i could take one for the team and get some blood work done. I’m going to use it anyways and have 1 in the mail to me right now plus I got a preorder one that will be here in a couple months.

You can of course do that, but it would not be for science, but to prove a point no?

If you by any chance would have had any increase in this time, the contamination of the Lotus would be enormous, and as you point out people would have most likely have been heavily poisoned by now. Nobody is claiming this. All this doom and gloom talk is coming from you.

I am regretting this now. If I ever get the chance to test it I would, as with all vapes.

 

[Spj3k1]

boiling point of Nickel is 2730C, no need to worry, there's no vapor pressure even with the biggest

Thanks for the inputs!

 

[Farid]

A lot of similar testing has been performed on different ecig wires. Maybe start there, since those are generally heated to similar if not higher temperatures.

 

[Arawfish]

You can of course do that, but it would not be for science, but to prove a point no?

If you by any chance would have had any increase in this time, the contamination of the Lotus would be enormous, and as you point out people would have most likely have been heavily poisoned by now. Nobody is claiming this. All this doom and gloom talk is coming from you.

I am regretting this now. If I ever get the chance to test it I would, as with all vapes.

I’ve participated in too many of these material safety questions in various places where we talk about these things (Vaporents, here, Instagram, Discord) to know that it’s a fruitless conversation unless, like you said, there’s hard empirical data to either confirm or deny that a cause for concern actually exists. It always just ends in a back and forth

Personally I don’t think there is a cause for health concerns regarding the use of Nickel in this case, but I’d be more than happy to change that stance if I was provided with evidence to suggest otherwise; evidence I have yet to see anywhere anytime this has been brought up.

 

[RustyOldNail]

It always just ends in a back and forth

So true. I’ll just add from my coil making ECig days, SOME people have “nickel” ALLERGIES, though I believe there were some obvious signs, like skin breakouts, etc. Something to look into if you suspect a possible allergy.

 

[Spj3k1]

I’ve participated in too many of these material safety questions in various places where we talk about these things (Vaporents, here, Instagram, Discord) to know that it’s a fruitless conversation unless, like you said, there’s hard empirical data to either confirm or deny that a cause for concern actually exits. It always just ends in a back and forth

Personally I don’t think there is a cause for health concerns regarding the use of Nickel in this case, but I’d be more than happy to change that stance if I was provided with evidence to suggest otherwise; evidence I have yet to see anywhere anytime this has been brought up.

Hopefully this evidence will never be a reality. I completely understand your stance. Just keep in mind that everyone have not the same capacity as you to participate in this discussion, and when asking for info from people who have more knowledge you can either reply decently or not. And scavenging old threads for useful info is not a walk in the park, so when the product is suddenly relevant again, this came to mind.

I have been absent from this message board for a while, but I always remember this as an open place where knowledge and experience was shared.

 

[Ramahs]

scavenging old threads for useful info is not a walk in the park

You just use the search function. It's pretty simple to search a thread.

And...in pretty much every internet forum I've been in, where someone new asks an old question that has been hashed out many many times previously in the thread in the past (material safety questions for vapes that have been around for a LONG time always fall into that category), it is normal for people to suggest that they search the thread for all their answers, rather than to rehash the same conversation that has previously already been covered over and over and over again.

No one is being condescending towards your question, It's just normal internet discussion board etiquette.

 

[Spj3k1]

You just use the search function. It's pretty simple to search a thread.

And...in pretty much every internet forum I've been in, where someone new asks an old question that has been hashed out many many times previously in the thread in the past (material safety questions for vapes that have been around for a LONG time always fall into that category), it is normal for people to suggest that they search the thread for all their answers, rather than to rehash the same conversation that has previously already been covered over and over and over again.

No one is being condescending towards your question, It's just normal internet discussion board etiquette.

Again, the vape is being re-released. It must be ok to ask the question again then without people loosing it.

And these threads are full of internet drama, and very little facts. If it annoys you to think about this. Don't partake.