Next Generation Vaporizer Fantasy

[Egzoset]

Hi everyone!

What's the next trend in vaporizers?

I've done some search and found these:

The AroMed Halogen Vaporizer
The Oracle Infrared Vaporizer

Then i started wondering what will be the next thing after that and came up with something like this:

That's a 1st post so i wondered what to write about, actually... Anyway, i'll be glad if this turns out to be entertaining! My appologies otherwise: i didn't mean to bother or anything, i just hope i've chosen the right thread.



Now my crude drawings might call for an explanation i guess.

Well, the closed-loop temperature regulation problem is something which catched my attention early. It became quickly obvious that the bag was always located outside of the controller's feedback loop so i started thinking about finding a way to correct that. In the example from above, the bag is located inside a cavity coupled to a fan and that fan creates a vacuum to fill the bag whenever necessary. The heater injects hot air from the shortest path possible, when the target temperature is reached the vapour starts being collected and this brings back the temperature to a safe level. The heater can be tamed down by the servo-controller if it's still too hot and there's a fan in case more cooling is required. The vapour passes through a water filter and an ice cooler, then a radiator coupled to a fan finishes the conditioning... At that point the user has the option to draw the vapour directly by pluging his mouth tube to a valve, that valve also allows the bag to be emptied at the end of the vaporization cycle without removing it from its cavity for more convenience... The fan in the heater cavity cools the element when the machine is turned off, that cavity is insulated to avoid heat migration to the bag cavity but it's better being safe than sorry.

In short, just enough heat is generated to vaporize the good stuff. The bag is filled only when the proper temperature is reached but there's the option to operate the machine semi-manually (without a bag, in emergency cases for example!)...

This setup should be versatile enough to vaporize substances other than weed (e.g. salvia divinorum, etc.); please tell me what you think of my dream (imaginary) machine, your comments are most welcome!

 

[george]

I like the idea, im sure it could be made. With that said though, seems quite complicted. I think a vape should be simple, and intimate. I want to be able to hold my vape in my hands, or move it where i need it to be, that thing looks pretty big. i dont mean to fart on your dream though.. haha, so i wont critique it a lot.

 

[Egzoset]

There's no problems with critique, it's actually expected and your comment about size is quite right.

In fact, that's the economic model... The one i had in mind while i was drawing this happens to add atmospheric pressure and humidity to the temperature and air-flow controls in order to compensate for altitude and weather conditions, with a GPS for those who travel around the globe. Oh, and it also included an uninterruptible power supply for emergency cases - not to mention that would be required for the dedicated control computer anyway (operating via USB, fully updatable via software, etc., etc.)... And of course i must confess it would have to come on four wheels!

 

[george]

Well then...thats one hell of a vaporizing machine

 

[Egzoset]

That's not all: the deluxe model would have an ice cube distributor and jukebox-style family bag holder!

 

[DevoTheStrange]

i notice there are alot of fans on this design. Why so many? Why not only one?
the way i see it, the less moving parts the less things that can possibly break.
Also, would it not be better to have the bag on the outside of the machine. Some people like to use different size bags for their needs. If they want a really huge bag, I don't think it will fit inside the unit. Some of the bag I have seen would mean they would need a huge vaporizer if the bag were held internally.

 

[Egzoset]

Thanks DevoTheStrange for your input.

It's true, there might happen to be way too many fans in this hypothetical machine but i couldn't cut down the count to only one simply because i considered it would be suitable to have some efficient means to remove heat from the vaporization chamber once done, which is achieved using a second fan, the first/main (top) fan being the one attached to the bag (lets call it the inflation fan). The top fan is absolutely necessary for two reasons:

1 - Instead of blowing air into the bag it's the bag which sucks air (in the same fashion as our lungs do)...
2 - In order to include the bag into my closed-loop concept it seemed using its fan would be economically efficient since that fan also manages other functions anyway, including what i just mentioned at item #1 (it's a multiple-function fan).

I agree the left-most bottom fan (and associated radiator) wouldn't break the whole thing if it were missing, nor would it matter to only use passive heat-sinking for the controller section.



I've just finished reading this thread:

The Oracle Vaporizer

...and i realize how ridiculous mine must sound. But it's just for fun!

 

[DevoTheStrange]

so you plan on using negative pressure outside of the bag so that it pretty much Inhales its load?

 

[Egzoset]

Indeed! Think of it as of shot gun smoking with the difference that the user only gets absolutely clean vapor from a plastic bag, a bag that fills only when temperature is right for vapourisation to begin, because that bag is part of the heater's temperature-regulation cycle...



Oh, there it is! ...the name for my hypothetical machine: THE SHOT GUN VAPORIZER!!!

 

[VWFringe]

i think we should build one into the wall next to the popcorn popper, or as an attachment to the expresso machine - express-vapo

it looks like it could fit inside a PC case, like one of those stealth grow boxes

negative pressure, clean, but will it work - hook it up to a roughing pump and watch the bag fill in 3 seconds, hahaha

 

[vap999]

Obviously, from a practical and engineering point of view, this will simply not work. You have fans, a heater running ?400?F, some type of accessible/refillable herbal, water and ice chambers, along with piping, valves (if only to prevent air and water back-flow), high-power electrical wiring and control electronics all in the same box!

Your design becomes much more practical if you take a unit process approach and have apparatus optimized for each function/step. From there you can connect these together.

Otherwise, have you questioned some of your most basic assumptions? For example, why cool vapor through water then ice just to fill a bag (and then have it warm back up to room temperature)? And why all the fans? How about giving users a simple bellows, piston or other manual 1-hand air pump that would allow true, fine pressure control for this "Shot gun" (referring to pumping out of vapor) type vaporizer?

But this is your dream machine, and if your design works for you, if you dream about using it, that's all that matters.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi VWFringe!

The popcorn shot-gun vaporizer option seems just great, it couldn't be more appropriate!!! Thank you!

My machine would be too big for a PC case though as it became vertical while i was taking a nap: that way the bag size issue can be resolved using a taller enclosure (but this implies the wheels are an innevitable necessity)!



Well, there could be a more versatile solution to the size problem on an other hand; that was a prolific nap so i also imagined a way to get rid of the rigid cavity by replacing it with a second bag and a set of semi-flexible support wires located between it and the vaporisation bag, allowing the machine to create a vacuum in-between so that the collection bag inflates. These supporting wires and their cavity bag can be imagined to fit virtually any size requirement, providing room for whatever bag the customer would desire.

The only drawback to such a larger double bag structure is that i fear my servo-controller might have some difficulty managing such a toke, especially as it approaches the end of a monster overloading vaporisation cycle! In fact, this could happen to be the very first couphing shot gun pump ever known to hit the market!!!

 

[Egzoset]

Hi vap999,

It seems you might have a valid argument, perhaps it wouldn't be good enough to have heat insulation on the cavity walls in order to control heat migration. Salvia divinorum calls for a higher temperature and i'm not sure the cavities can be properly isolated from each other. It's a dream machine so that means i'm all speculation here and hence that is why everyone's comments are most welcome! I thought fans might turn out to be necessary at the end of a real brain-storming design session so i put them there right from the start, just in case. Maybe a modular approach would prove to be more realistic, i dunno. You see, being a future vaporist means there are many variables which escape me at the moment. It's totally possible only water-filtering would be desirable, something which can be done with an in-line hand apparatus. As for the negative pressure bag cavity, i mentioned in my previous post that this could be made of a semi-rigid double bag contraption that can be independant of the heater block as well.

The goal to make that machine entirely self-controlled remains at the base of my concept, in any case: i like the idea of a factory-calibrated setup designed to ease the life of newbies like me! Imagine, even my grand mother would be able to use it... Fill the tray, install a bag if there's none yet, pick a pre-set temperature according to what sort of blend was inserted in the tray, press the "OK" button and then watch that animated thing going through its vaporising/inhalation cycle until the green "Ready" lamp goes on! What a dream! Especially for the beginer i am...

Nothing would seem simpler than THE SHOT GUN VAPORIZER, that would be like putting bread in a toaster and obtaining toasts as a result! Perfect fool-proof & hands-free use for the masses...



I've appreciated every comment and modified my drawings accordingly, nonetheless:

What do you think of the new (still very hypothetical) Shot Gun Vaporizer v2.0?

This one has two custom multi-purpose valves for optional bypassing through whatever combination of external filter/cooler setup which could be required by the user. Structure wires support the vacuum bag to provide enough space for the vapour bag to inflate at full capacity. At first, the later bag is empty and occupies little space while the vacuum one (always) occupies its maximum volume, then the vaporization cycle starts making the vapour bag progressively larger under the vacuum space as vapour is being collected... The vacuum bag, the wires which make it retain a proper volume and the vapour bag inside of it can be removed at the end of the vaporization session in order to save space.

 

[Egzoset]

Ah c'mon! I need more feedback or there will never be a v3.0!

Shot Gun Vaporizer v1.0 vs Shot Gun Vaporizer v2.0

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

looks nice

 

[Egzoset]

Thank you.

Well i've been reading a lot this morning and i'm begining to think i'd like my hypothetical heating element to retain some of the features found in this real one here:

Apparently, the air path within the VripTech VripMaster Vaporization Heat Wand (v3) is supposed to be ALL GLASS but i'd still need to read a bit further just to make certain... Meanwhile, it might be a good idea to drop the half-top part of the middle section completely in an eventual Shot Gun Vaporizer v3.0 drawing, keeping only the balloon inhaler part and its temperature-controlled actuator. I even imagine the later could take some benefit from the existing circuitry already present inside the heat wand itself! I wonder, a temperature detector coupled to the tray might also add some precision to the whole contraption so that the air/vapour ratio can be fully optimized.

 

[stinkmeaner]

I have a thought that would make it easier to clean and take up less space.

I would do away with much of the tubing because tubing before the herb chamber is fine but I feel you might run into cleaning issues if you have a long pathway of tubing after the herb chamber because that means that sticky vapor will be traveling though the inside of the machine. You can use your door idea to access the Water Tank & Ice Chamber, these would be connected with GONG Fittings.

I made a visual for you:




A PID CONTROLLER and a SOLID STATE RELAY would cover your basic electronics for your prototype

Any small quiet pump will work, in fact the Volcano uses the same High Output Pump that the Herbalaire uses.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations stinkmeaner!



It's most likely safe to assume that no vaporizer was ever created without any flaw in its design right from the initial plans. There's no good reason for this "entertaining" exercise to be different knowing that this is all new to me... I suppose i was thinking like my grand mother when i created the first sketch: my priority was to make it look neat and as little intimidating as possible - which is how i ended up with a mouth piece in place of a cigarette filter and a black box instead of an ash tray, ultimately i mean... Version 3 wouldn't be a finished product anyway, not even in some fantasy world!



So, my only requirement is to keep the balloon within the temperature/(emulated) inhalation control loop of the machine because if it were not then that would be an ordinary vaporizer. It just wouldn't make any sense for me to pretend that i can compete with real & proven designers but the situation is radically different if it's THE SHOT GUN VAPORIZER, meaning there can be no pump or else in the air/vapor path or it wouldn't be a shot gun vaporizer to begin with!

With all of the above in mind, i totally concur with your opinion that the tubing was way too long; hiding it inside the vaporizer box would only have made maintenance much more complicated than what was really suitable. For that reason i say lets keep things as standard as they can be but with a twist: a custom coaxial vacuum/vapor bottle/bag adapter ending with a plain 14 or 19 mm glass junction neatly piled on top of a classic water/ice glass container...



Sorry, i've got no drawing ready to show right now but imagine that i replaced the vacuum bag with an ordinary 2 litters plastic bottle like those of Coke, Pepsi, etc... Such a container can host a vapor bag on one condition: some coaxial adaptor would be required to keep the two volumes separate, euh... In other words, that 14mm or 19mm glass adaptor would have to provide a path to the vapor bag via a center tube but also an independant path leading to the volume inside the bottle (e.g. around the vapor bag but not including it)... That special piece of hardware would have a tap on the side meant to be connected through non food-grade flexible tubing to any cheap pump contraption that can be made available to the project.

So, the image i have in my mind right now is a bottle on top of a glass adaptor sitting of top of a short filtering, humidifying and cooling path to the vaporizer cavity, with some tube connecting that adaptor to the controller so it can generate a negative pressure into the vacuum bottle, forcing the vapor bag to "inhale" once the controler has determined there's vapor ready to be collected... Oh, on a side note: there would be a valve-ball (a glass-coated iron core one, actually) between the vaporisation cavity and the heater element in order to prevent any loss of the precious gases. Additionally, the controler would also manage an optional fogger (mist maker) in case the customer chooses to have brief bursts of mist combined to the vapor before the final collection stage.

As for the controler, it would be cut down to the most basic features possible since v3 isn't meant to be the last of this hypothetical series anytime soon. As a consequence, why not use a computer via an USB interface until the design is really finished, to ease prototyping!



Thanks, stinkmeaner, for your contribution!

 

[Egzoset]

Here's the coaxial adaptor:

The nice thing with 2 litters soft drink bottles is that these are "stealth" all right!

 

[vapormonkey]

The aromed has been around for awhile. Another german design that makes sense. Why not herb sandwiched between two very small halide lamps or other small bulbs that heat up. Flip the switch and you're good to go...all glass path.

 

[Egzoset]

That would be the infra-red model, right?

My heater section has been rather vague until now but i think it will come to that exactly!

What do you think of the vacuum cavity in v3?

 

[spikyvape]

Do you really wan't that much surface area in a vape ?

THC gets everywhere in this system this way, the more surface area in the vapor path
the less you get in your body.

And that's only the path, then you also add water, ice and a bag.

An aromed has for example has 150 square centimetres of surface area, the volcano even more (5x)

Just think about the huge surface you are using. This will result in a huge condensation loss !

So stale taste and a great amount of thc loss.

Why do you think Aromed, VHW, purple days (etc) have such great taste

 

[Progress]

My next generation fantasy vape would probably be something that acts like the glass pressure cooker, but can be used with smaller amounts for personal use (and be direct draw instead of requiring a small containment room for the vaporists to sit in with the vapor once it is released).

For those who have not heard of the glass pressure cooker approach to vaping, no problem. What I am suggesting is a vaporizer that can have a glass pressurized chamber, where water saturated herbs or oils can be added, to be heated under pressure (which is necessary to keep the water with the herbs/oils until they are vaporized too).

This serves two purposes. First, the saturation of the herbs/oils in water ensures that there will not be the minimal toasting/drying/darkening of the material that we all experience with current vaporizer models (and try to address with post-vapor-producing moisturization and filtering). Secondly, This system would allow one to fill the heating chamber as much or as little as they want, and finish it all in one moist, tasty draw.

IMO this is my next generation vaporizer fantasy. Any ideas on how to practically manufacture this fucker (of combustion)?

Egzoset, I have not really ever preferred vapor storage in a bag, but do feel it is a neat idea to incorporate water filtraton prior to bag filling. For that, however, you would either need a really strong fan or a really drag-free filtration set-up.

Success is often born out of a succession of near misses, and I do agree with some of the critiques above (large size, condensation surfaces, bag-only, etc.). Neat initial idea though, Egzoset.

Edit: Egzoset, I overlooked the interest in vaporizing salvia D with your device, but just saw your follow up post and realized that another advantage of the glass pressure cooker (style) vape is that you can dial into any temp (even well above vaping temps!) without burning. You would just need a method of expansion or heat-absorption cooling that keeps the inhale from being too hot. I personally prefer expansion cooling to room temp through forced diffusion over sub-room-temp cooling (ie ice). Salutations and best wishes.

 

[Egzoset]

Hi spikyvape,

Water, ice, THC? I recognized the issues raised because of the lenghty air path in v1 but i'm presently moving on to v3.

This is what v1 was like:

Shot Gun Vaporizer v1.0

With the benefit of feedback provided by helpful readers i'm now considering this late revision:

Shot Gun Vaporizer v3.0

Well, that's only my vacuum cavity and associated vapor bag but the water filter and ice cooler became optional a few posts ago with v2, previously...



Your concern is most appreciated, nonetheless! The more i read the more i realize that condensation of the post-vaporization gas needs to be addressed. Only, there's a reason behind the Shot Gun Vaporizer quest and it's to handle Salvia Divinorum which i'd rather leave alone if it were not for the bag of which it is the main purpose to provide reasonable post-vaporization control over the dosage; the goal with my "artificial lung" design is to include the bag within the controler's closed-loop to regularize and optimize the resulting air/vapor ratio: a major factor in the final dosage...

Of course there's a trade-off between safety/dosage control and loss due to condensation, that's why i've made the bag optional in the previous two diagrams and v3 won't be different if i can help it.

Finally, just in case it doesn't show up, lets keep in mind this thread was primarily meant as a form of entertainment for the readers while i learn from their contributions, getting acquainted with the participating members in the meantime... The very hypothetical Shot Gun Vaporizer doesn't consitute a threat for any commercial vaporizer on the market - yet it's absolutely affordable and that could be fun too! I hope you'll like it.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations to you Progress!

I've read your post with high interest though it's a bit puzzling to me. You seem to be refering to what i know as "presto" cooking: water in an air-tight enclosure can be heated until it exceeds its boiling point because the pressure doesn't allow it to evaporate... That's certainly a stimulating concept since such discussions would probably give rise to many more questions - ...and questions are stimulating, almost as much as answers are!



The thing is that's all new to me. While your words are being echoed in my mind i'd like to explain how i came to the water/ice contraption early. My reason has to do with my opinion that the plastic bag was at risk to melt since salvia divinorum requires a lot of heat to vaporize... It was that basic!

Of couse, the gas would be filtered, humidified and cooled down but i had a concern that my bag might suffer damage and let its precious load escape!