MMJ for pain management question

[TomC1315]

A friend at work and I were talking about my new portable vape, and he expressed interest vaping MJ for pain management for his always sore back.

He never took to MJ in the past (although he had a bad history with cocaine) because it made him sleepy.
I mentioned to him about different temp settings and the ability to "dial in" a temp that would avoid a sleepy experience ... he's intrigued.

I'm well aware that, compared to phamaceuticals which 'work' immediately, natural alternatives may take 4 to 6 weeks to become effective ... I assume, however, that a MMJ session has immediate benefits ... yes?

Question: for pain management, do the MMJ effects last only as long as a MJ high lasts? Or does it, if vaped on a regular basis, translate into less pain throughout the day regardless of whether or not one has vaped the MMJ in the past couple of hours.

Is there moderately low temp in which pain relief can be experienced without sedation?

Any other recommendations, anecdotes, or advise for my friend regarding pain management with MJ ?

Thank you :-)

 

[DDave]

A friend at work and I were talking about my new portable vape, and he expressed interest vaping MJ for pain management for his always sore back.

He never took to MJ in the past (although he had a bad history with cocaine) because it made him sleepy.
I mentioned to him about different temp settings and the ability to "dial in" a temp that would avoid a sleepy experience ... he's intrigued.

I'm well aware that, compared to phamaceuticals which 'work' immediately, natural alternatives may take 4 to 6 weeks to become effective ... I assume, however, that a MMJ session has immediate benefits ... yes?

Question: for pain management, do the MMJ effects last only as long as a MJ high lasts? Or does it, if vaped on a regular basis, translate into less pain throughout the day regardless of whether or not one has vaped the MMJ in the past couple of hours.

Is there moderately low temp in which pain relief can be experienced without sedation?

Any other recommendations, anecdotes, or advise for my friend regarding pain management with MJ ?

Thank you :-)

The cannabanoids that handle pain are pretty close in extraction temps to the ones that aid with insomnia (or sedation), although if your friend used MMJ by smoking - then simply by switching to vaping exclusively may be the answer he seeks. When I switched from combusting to vaping, I noticed that the effects were far "clearer" or awake. Good thing about MMJ is you can try it. And then if something's not working, you can switch up so many different parameters... strains, temps, vaporizers... then there's tinctures, edibles... and so on. Leafly.com provides a great/searchable resource of strains and their characteristics, plus personal reviews. If you're in an MMJ friendly state or region, you could really narrow down your search for the right strain fairly quickly.

To your question, "do the MMJ effects last only as long as a MJ high lasts?", I'd have to say somewhat. MMJ does have Anti-Inflamatory properties whose benefit would probably last after the "high" is gone.

Your friend should try experimenting a bit, maybe on days off work, to see about dialing in just the right parameters that meet his pain management needs without causing sedation. Also, tolerance will play into the equation. When he first starts out, MMJ may hit him harder than when his body adjusts to the new meds.

There are tons of temperature to effects charts available for MMJ. I've included one below.
Good luck to your friend!

Lastly, pain management is very subjective. Some are good with small effects and I've heard them describe the effect of MMJ on their pain as "Yeah, the pain's there and I can feel it, but it really doesn't bother me" all the way to getting so lifted that they felt no pain, nor did they know what planet they happened to reside on.

(Edit to correct spelling errors above.... )

 

[Jaindoh]

Well, there are many sides to the story when it comes to cannabis and pain.

For me, the main relief is a psychological one. The stress pain puts you under, the bad mood it puts you in? They act as a lens on the pain, magnifying what wouldn't be so unbearable otherwise. It's very important to consider your stress level when you consider pain.

I also directly have less pain. However, when you're talking about long periods of time, it's less important that you hurt less during that time, and more that your personality and mood have not been as directly impacted. Pain will try to turn you into House, MD. An insufferable prick. It's a very human thing. Marijuana is responsible for offsetting a lot of that for me.

Being on a fixed income, it would be most financially beneficial for me to quit or severely cut back. However, the effect of marijuana on my pain is so important to my lifestyle, I take that downside as a fair trade. It's like groceries, it's in my budget and trying to skimp on it - much less quit for the money I need? Not worth it.

It'd be sad, if it wasn't such a good thing for me. Cannabis can help a lot with pain. It's not an opiate, it doesn't act that way. There's a lot of anti-inflammatory effects, apparantly, which helps a lot... but there's more to the story.

Bottom line, I'm more functional with a lot of cannabis in my system than I am sober. The pain is more debilitating than being high. I take steps, including nootropics and vaping. Particularly vaping at a lower temperature. Gives a much less intoxicated effect.

 

[momofthegoons]

For me, the use of cannabis for pain has cut down on the amount of narcotics I've had to use; especially after surgeries. It dulls the pain; doesn't take it away. And you think about it less. As @Jon Do said, it negates the angst of pain. It lightens the mood.

However, there is a fine line between medicating and having it be effective, and over indulging. When you over indulge, the pain doesn't seem to dull as well. Your mood is still lightened significantly, but the pain itself isn't helped as much. I've found you need to find the balance.

In addition, Indicas are usually recommended, as well as higher temps, for pain relief. CBD products have also been shown to effectively treat pain without the high you get from traditional cannabis or cannabis products.

As to how long it lasts? Depends on the method of ingestion. If you take an edible, it will last much longer in your system than smoking or vaporizing. Tinctures also last longer.

 

[TomC1315]

DDave, Jon Do, and momofthegoons ... thank you all for contributing to my understanding of this situation ...
I look forward to sharing this with my friend, along with our first session next week.

Thanks to you, I feel better qualified to re-introduce him to MJ. I'll share your perspectives and experiences with him, and I'll share my bud ... namaste :-)

 

[Amoreena]

... If you take an edible, it will last much longer in your system ...

Edibles are also trickier to get the right amount of. Too little and it does little/no good; too much makes some folks quite uncomfortable until it passes.

 

[CarolKing]

I have a certification for medical cannabis. I am unable to take anti inflammatories so I don't have very many options for arthritis. My pain is worse n the joints of my feet, some days more than other days. Cannabis dulls the pain, takes the edge off, its still there. The pain is more tolerable using cannabis. I also use it when I have a lot of anxiety.

At the dispensaries I have a wide choice of options. I can use edibles if I want but I save those for at night usually. I prefer to vape cannabis flowers. I sometimes will use concentrates inside my flowers at night. The indicas using high temps usually works best when things are at their worse.

I don't like to feel too much of a head buzz during the day if I have things to do. If I need pain management some Sativas help with that, as longs as they're not too racy. Usually the pain management lasts me a couple of hours after vaporizing.

I made some cannabis coconut oil last night with quite a bit of duff that I bought for $50 an oz. I need to see how potent it is and figure out the dosing. I will do that at night, starting very slowly. Take caution when it comes to cannabis edibles. The medicated feel from edibles can last for several hours after they kick in. An edible will last you longer for pain than vaporizing but dosing can be difficult, too much is no fun.

edit
@DDave i use something called Kush it's a lotion that has a frosty cold feel to it- permafrost cannabis oil. I've heard folks making some killer lotion though. Maybe my cannabis coconut oil would work, I will try it out later.

 

[DDave]

I have a certification for medical cannabis. I am unable to take anti inflammatories so I don't have very many options for arthritis. My pain is worse n the joints of my feet, some days more than other days. Cannabis dulls the pain, takes the edge off, its still there. The pain is more tolerable using cannabis. I also use it when I have a lot of anxiety.

At the dispensaries I have a wide choice of options. I can use edibles if I want but I save those for at night usually. I prefer to vape cannabis flowers. I sometimes will use concentrates inside my flowers at night. The indicas using high temps usually works best when things are at their worse.

I don't like to feel too much of a head buzz during the day if I have things to do. If I need pain management some Sativas help with that, as longs as their not too racy. Usually the pain management lasts me a couple of hours after vaporizing.

I made some cannabis coconut oil last night with quite a bit of duff that I bought for $50 an oz. I need to see how potent it is and figure out the dosing. I will do that at night, starting very slowly. Take caution when it comes to cannabis edibles. The medicated feel from edibles can last for several hours after they kick in. An edible will last you longer for pain than vaporizing but dosing can be difficult, too much is no fun.

@CarolKing Don't forget about topical application. Since anti-inflamatory cannabaniods are extracted at the higher temp ranges, ABV can make some pretty good anti-inflamatory and pain relieving topical rubs.

I make one for wifey that works quite well!

 

[momofthegoons]

I've heard folks making some killer lotion though. Maybe my cannabis coconut oil would work, I will try it out later.

@CarolKing Don't forget about topical application.

I was just coming back to this thread to mention this. I also make a cannabis salve that has become quite popular with patients that have pain. I've found that the topicals work really well on muscular pain. Unfortunately, it doesn't do much for skeletal pain (such as Rheumatoid arthritis) or nerve pain. It does, however, help alleviate the tension from stress and the aromatherapy benefits are there too since I add essential oils.

 

[Hashtag46&2]

As a Chronic Pain Patient for over 2 decades, the use of cannabis at higher temperatures is the most effective means of controlling pain via distraction of the Neuro-Transmitters.

Also, as @DDave points out, Cannabis also possesses Analgesic, Agonist and Anti-inflammatory properties.

At lower temps, THC is going to be the more abundant Cannabinoid, which can relieve some pain, but is more of a distraction technique.

Well, there are many sides to the story when it comes to cannabis and pain.

For me, the main relief is a psychological one. The stress pain puts you under, the bad mood it puts you in? They act as a lens on the pain, magnifying what wouldn't be so unbearable otherwise. It's very important to consider your stress level when you consider pain.

I also directly have less pain. However, when you're talking about long periods of time, it's less important that you hurt less during that time, and more that your personality and mood have not been as directly impacted. Pain will try to turn you into House, MD. An insufferable prick. It's a very human thing. Marijuana is responsible for offsetting a lot of that for me.

Being on a fixed income, it would be most financially beneficial for me to quit or severely cut back. However, the effect of marijuana on my pain is so important to my lifestyle, I take that downside as a fair trade. It's like groceries, it's in my budget and trying to skimp on it - much less quit for the money I need? Not worth it.

It'd be sad, if it wasn't such a good thing for me. Cannabis can help a lot with pain. It's not an opiate, it doesn't act that way. There's a lot of anti-inflammatory effects, apparantly, which helps a lot... but there's more to the story.

Bottom line, I'm more functional with a lot of cannabis in my system than I am sober. The pain is more debilitating than being high. I take steps, including nootropics and vaping. Particularly vaping at a lower temperature. Gives a much less intoxicated effect.

I really love this post @Jon Do ^^^
Describing myself to the T...
After 20+ years of debilitating pain, day after day, month after month, year after year...

Anger, stress, frustration... Feelings of inadequacy, leads to a very unstable state of mind.
My male pride of being the "provider" for my wife and myself kept me working full time through the abyss of Chronic Pain.

It took an imminent double hip replacement for me to see just how bad the situation really was..

So, when dealing with CP, it can present a multitude of other issues that only add to the frustrating day to day routine.

Cannabis levels things out for me.

Unfortunately, I must take Pharma, or I'd be bedridden... But, the only time I'm truly happy is after partaking of cannabis.... It's the only time that my laughs are genuine and not faked, it's the only time when my smile is genuine, and not forced to be a part of society.

There are so many other trials that accompany CP, that remain hidden behind the overwhelming amount of pain.

Edibles are also trickier to get the right amount of. Too little and it does little/no good; too much makes some folks quite uncomfortable until it passes.

This^^ here too...

I make "Hash Caps" in a variety of doses..
What I used as a daily dose at 25mg didn't even have any effect on my motor skills, I don't feel the caps at all... I take it as a Cannabinoid "Vitamin "

I recently met a gentleman looking for pain relief via Edibles... I spoke with him for a few hours explaining the properties of Cannabis, as he had never taken it before.

I gave him a handful of my 25mg hash caps, told him to take one at bedtime.

Well, I reckon I fucked up, because he said he was soooo high, he could not even move.. He had to crawl to the bathroom to urinate.

I felt so horrible, I thought maybe I accidentally gave him one of the 350mg caps I take 2 hours before bed, because I ain't doing ANYTHING after that dose for at least 12ish hours.

Thankfully, I did only give him the 25s.
Point being, edibles can and will effect people differently.

Cannabis is processed differently in the liver when taken orally.
As pointed out by @CarolKing , start slow and low, and work your way up when using edibles.

Good luck to your friend OP, and kudos to you for helping so graciously.

 

[TriiKLe]

Very personal subject for me.

I have nerve damage from a failed back surgery. Having to accept that I will be in pain for the rest of my life was the first step (hurt my back when I was 24). Because of the nerve damage my right leg hurts also, on top of my back hurting all the time.

Getting high helps tremendously. The mental break is a mini vaycay.

I do notice when I take little breaks from cannabis to lower my tolerance I start to feel more pain and inflammation creep up. So I do think it is important to maintain cannabinoids in your system.

I incorporate medibles also when I need a stronger level of sedation. I know I should not do it, but I can't help picking up my daughter sometimes, especially because she isn't getting any lighter and I know my ability to hold her is coming to an end. Holding her just for a few seconds puts me in pretty bad shape after so that is where the medibles come in the picture.

With all that I have just said, I have to say that you can not just rely on cannabis or any substance alone for pain "management".

Excercising and stretching helps a ton. Proper nourishment and diet.

It has to be a complete life-style.

 

[A1FBG]

I have realized some of the physical pain is caused my mental reasons.

One of the conditions i have is fibromyalgia. This disease sends false pain signals throughout the body. So even though the pain is technically not present (can not be seen nor determined), the pain can still be felt by the patient because of these false signals

Unfortunately i dont have dispensaries to test at. But even though fibromyalgia is a body pain and high CBD indica would make more sense, I've always wondered if a high THC sativa strain would be more beneficial to a disease like this?

Does being high eliminate these false pain signals better than a couch lock indica type buzz? As your brain never thinks about any type of pain when high/happy. Im sure some of it is personal preference/whatever works best for YOUR body. But just in general what are your initial thoughts on this idea?

 

[CarolKing]

I know a person who takes cannabis for MS. She says it helps to relax her muscles in her legs. She says it gives her a warm feeling in her muscles.

Indices are more sedative and Sativs makes your brain more active. It's hard if you don't know the strains that you are using.

edit
I found this from the WeedBlog - I hope this helps.

After doing a little digging this morning. I came up these magnificent seven medical marijuana strains that represent a wide spectrum of cannabinoids available to help with pain reduction in fibromyalgia patients. These cannabinoids have several well-documented beneficial effects for many aliments.

BLACK JACK: This cross of Jack Horror and Black Domina is an excellent sativa dominate strain. great for depression and nausea. ? 9-THC 16.64% CBC .07% CBD .24% CBG 1.69% CBN .19%

CHEM 4: This Chemdog phenotype is an indica dominate strain great for severe pain. Starts off cerebral but quickly turns into couch lock. ? 9-THC 18.97% CBC .0% CBD .27% CBG 0% CBN .61%

SILVER PEARL: Northern Lights #5 x Skunk x Early Pearl. This sativa is great for migraines and productivity while being highly medicated ? 9-THC 22.18% CBC .08% CBD .30% CBG 0% CBN .94%

GRAPE APE Pure indica strain. Grape like smell and taste with a hint of skunk. Works for stress relief, nervousness, and chronic pain. ? 9-THC 16.64% CBC .07% CBD .24% CBG 1.69% CBN .19%

AK BERRY Sweet flavored cross of AK-47 and Blueberry. This hybrid has the sativa punch of AK with the pain relieving qualities of Blueberry ? 9-THC 15.69% CBC .02% CBD .36% CBG 0% CBN .54%

BLUE DREAM The name says it all. this hybrid is great for relaxing and daytime pain relief. light smooth blueberry and spice taste. ? 9-THC 18.46% CBC .04% CBD .31% CBG 0% CBN .28%

PERMAFROST Trainwreck and White Widow cross is a hybrid best for stress and anxiety. Smooth smoke that leaves you feeling energetic ? 9-THC 18.46% CBC .04% CBD .31% CBG 0% CBN .28%

 

[Hashtag46&2]

I have realized some of the physical pain is caused my mental reasons.

One of the conditions i have is fibromyalgia. This disease sends false pain signals throughout the body. So even though the pain is technically not present (can not be seen nor determined), the pain can still be felt by the patient because of these false signals

Unfortunately i dont have dispensaries to test at. But even though fibromyalgia is a body pain and high CBD indica would make more sense, I've always wondered if a high THC sativa strain would be more beneficial to a disease like this?

Does being high eliminate these false pain signals better than a couch lock indica type buzz? As your brain never thinks about any type of pain when high/happy. Im sure some of it is personal preference/whatever works best for YOUR body. But just in general what are your initial thoughts on this idea?

Man, I'm sorry I missed this post...

I too was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia (turned out to be a false Dx, it ended up being Ankylosing Spondylitis)

But, I suffer from neuropathic pain as well, and I've found High THC strains to be much more effective at treating pain sourced from neuropathy, as opposed to the the high CBD strains.

I'm in no way doubting the properties of CBD, but I find THC and CBN to be the most effective way to treat a myriad of my symptoms.

As you eluded..
Cannabinoids work in a synergetic manner and will be unique to each individual's body chemistry.

While CBD rich strains may work well for one person, and not have any affect on a different individual with the same symptoms.

Cannabis is magical, majestic and still mysterious plant, we are just cracking the surface on the potential for just exactly what this botanical is capable of doing.

 

[MinnBobber]

@TomC1315 , it may depend on what causes the back when. I find back pain diminishes with cannabis for the time you are high BUT it can also help relax tight tight muscles that are caused by the pain and
add to the pain. That positive effect can carry over even after the high is gone.

@CarolKing , @momofthegoons --lotions and topicals and salves really interest me. If/when i ever get a decent amount of bud I'd love to try making/using some. With a tiny stash---vaping only for now

 

[howie105]

A friend at work and I were talking about my new portable vape, and he expressed interest vaping MJ for pain management for his always sore back.

He never took to MJ in the past (although he had a bad history with cocaine) because it made him sleepy.
I mentioned to him about different temp settings and the ability to "dial in" a temp that would avoid a sleepy experience ... he's intrigued.

I'm well aware that, compared to phamaceuticals which 'work' immediately, natural alternatives may take 4 to 6 weeks to become effective ... I assume, however, that a MMJ session has immediate benefits ... yes?

Question: for pain management, do the MMJ effects last only as long as a MJ high lasts? Or does it, if vaped on a regular basis, translate into less pain throughout the day regardless of whether or not one has vaped the MMJ in the past couple of hours.

Is there moderately low temp in which pain relief can be experienced without sedation?

Any other recommendations, anecdotes, or advise for my friend regarding pain management with MJ ?

Thank you :-)

For pain MJ may or may not work depending on the cause and level of pain your friend has and before starting or coming off any existing drug regiment he should consult his doctor. That said I have a crappy back and use MJ for pain relief (at times for the buzz too) but the pain doses are relatively small (around .04g) and spaced out across the day as needed. It works well enough for me that I am off the schedule one drugs I was on. However getting medical info off the web is usually not a good idea so again urge him to talk to his doctor before he changes anything.

 

[momofthegoons]

lotions and topicals and salves really interest me. If/when i ever get a decent amount of bud I'd love to try making/using some. With a tiny stash---vaping only for now

You can actually use your ABV for a topical pain oil. Here is a link to Enchantre's recipe.

 

[MinnBobber]

You can actually use your ABV for a topical pain oil. Here is a link to Enchantre's recipe.

Thanks, I had not seen that.
I accumulate ABV very slowly. Would half of a spice jar (those little 4 oz? ones) have enough actives to be effective at all?
I'd be using for muscle pain.

 

[momofthegoons]

Would half of a spice jar (those little 4 oz? ones) have enough actives to be effective at all?

You may want to wait until you've accumulated more. However, it's all a ratio thing. In Enchantre's method, you fill a quart jar half way with finely ground abv. I would guestamate that to be close to 1 1/2 oz. of ABV; if not more.

But, with the amount you have, you could sort of replicate that. If your 4 oz. jar is half full, grind it fine and add the coconut oil to it as per her instructions. Rice bran oil is also good to use, but hard to find.

 

[MinnBobber]

You may want to wait until you've accumulated more. However, it's all a ratio thing. In Enchantre's method, you fill a quart jar half way with finely ground abv. I would guestamate that to be close to 1 1/2 oz. of ABV; if not more.

But, with the amount you have, you could sort of replicate that. If your 4 oz. jar is half full, grind it fine and add the coconut oil to it as per her instructions. Rice bran oil is also good to use, but hard to find.

................................
Thanks,
I do have coconut oil as this thread got be stoked and I have a big unopened jar.

It would be very interesting to try a mj lotion on muscle and joint pian.
Has anyone ever used it on a shoulder with tendons that are " frazzled " ?

Thanks

 

[momofthegoons]

Has anyone ever used it on a shoulder with tendons that are " frazzled " ?

I have tendonitis pretty bad in one of my wrists. It works really well for that.

I've found that the topicals work very well for muscle pain, but not well for skeletal pain. I gave a tin to someone with Rheumatoid Arthritis who had no relief at all from it. I think that for skeletal pain, ingestion is the key; usually in tinctures.