Max temp. for vaporizing without damaging the lungs

[Tranquility]

Big fan of MAPS, but isn't this study misdiagnosed? The condensate material produced by the vaporizer is not tar, so the comparison to smoking methods seems skewed.

I agree. The study was smoking and not vaping. They did mention a vape as possible mitigation. I only threw out the old study as people could not understand a possible reason why water may be worse.

With this information in mind, we undertook to explore various ways of filtering marijuana smoke. Waterpipes were the most obvious candidate, being widely available in head shops and popular with many users on account of the apparent mildness of their smoke. We were especially encouraged by research showing that waterpipes could be highly effective in filtering tobacco[15]. Unfortunately, we were to discover that these results did not hold up for marijuana. A second candidate technology that would likewise prove disappointing was cigarette filters, which are widely available and can be easily adapted to marijuana by means of a simple homemade filter holder. We did not consider the more advanced "smokeless cigarette" developed by RJ Reynolds, due to the fact that it is not actually a smoke filtration device, but rather an inhaler for artificially flavored nicotine, which is of no use for marijuana. Instead, we turned our attention to vaporizers, which have been touted as a possible ideal solution to the cannabis smoking problem. Unfortunately, because vaporizers can't be used with tobacco, they are prohibited under US paraphernalia laws, and users must accordingly resort to homemade designs. We obtained one such device from the San Francisco Cannabis Buyers' Club. Another we managed to obtain from a Canadian supplier, who is selling them on that country's newly emerged, illegal but tolerated "gray market" in Vancouver. Although neither device performed close to the smokeless ideal, our study left reasonable hope that substantial improvement is possible. Given the evident need, vaporization merits further research and development.​

 

[invertedisdead]

I agree. The study was smoking and not vaping. They did mention a vape as possible mitigation. I only threw out the old study as people could not understand a possible reason why water may be worse.

With this information in mind, we undertook to explore various ways of filtering marijuana smoke. Waterpipes were the most obvious candidate, being widely available in head shops and popular with many users on account of the apparent mildness of their smoke. We were especially encouraged by research showing that waterpipes could be highly effective in filtering tobacco[15]. Unfortunately, we were to discover that these results did not hold up for marijuana. A second candidate technology that would likewise prove disappointing was cigarette filters, which are widely available and can be easily adapted to marijuana by means of a simple homemade filter holder. We did not consider the more advanced "smokeless cigarette" developed by RJ Reynolds, due to the fact that it is not actually a smoke filtration device, but rather an inhaler for artificially flavored nicotine, which is of no use for marijuana. Instead, we turned our attention to vaporizers, which have been touted as a possible ideal solution to the cannabis smoking problem. Unfortunately, because vaporizers can't be used with tobacco, they are prohibited under US paraphernalia laws, and users must accordingly resort to homemade designs. We obtained one such device from the San Francisco Cannabis Buyers' Club. Another we managed to obtain from a Canadian supplier, who is selling them on that country's newly emerged, illegal but tolerated "gray market" in Vancouver. Although neither device performed close to the smokeless ideal, our study left reasonable hope that substantial improvement is possible. Given the evident need, vaporization merits further research and development.​

Yeah sorry for going off topic, I realize you were only referencing the part in the study about the water pipe, I just thought it was pretty interesting that they reached the conclusion that tar was being produced in the vaporizers they tested.

 

[invertedisdead]

also...how old is that article on the study. The way it refers to vaporizers give me the impression this information is near the beginning of the vape revolution.

Yeah, 1996; revised Nov., 1999 >>> LMAO!

I swear I saw a cannabis documentary that claimed people were vaporizing thousands of years ago off of hot rocks. Wish I could find the information again. Pretty sure it was in a lecture from Carl Ruck.

 

[muunch]

I swear I saw a cannabis documentary that claimed people were vaporizing thousands of years ago off of hot rocks. Wish I could find the information again. Pretty sure it was in a lecture from Carl Ruck.

I also think that was mentioned in the hash church 2.0 episode that focused on vaporizing

 

[Tranquility]

I swear I saw a cannabis documentary that claimed people were vaporizing thousands of years ago off of hot rocks. Wish I could find the information again. Pretty sure it was in a lecture from Carl Ruck.

https://herb.co/marijuana/news/the-history-of-vaporizing
https://vapingdaily.com/what-is-vaping/vaping-history/

Vaporizing has a long history. Herodotus describes, in Egypt (5th century B.C.) people were heating herbs and oils on hot stones to vape. The orator Cicero gave him the title “The Father of History,”. Therefore, we might have to trust him about the ancient origins of vaping.​

If you look at the patent in the first link, what vape does that remind you of? (WHAT it might remind one of is a completely different topic.)

​

 

[szai]

I read that the scythians used to throw some weed on heated stones and then start howling with laughter!

Yup found it!

Lee largely credits the weed-loving, widely migratory ancient Scythians with taking a species native to central Asia and spreading it across Eurasia and into Europe, citing a passage in Herodotus’s Histories (BCE 500) that describes Scythians of this far-gone era “howling with pleasure” in a hemp vapor bath. Which sounds like a pretty kickass way to hotbox a sweat lodge, if you ask me. In time, the herb found a home in virtually every inhabited place on Earth, forever changing the course of world events in the process. So let’s take a closer look at the hidden weed history your teachers never told you about

 

[dunwich]

I think i'll buy a new vape specifically for microdosing.
Im looking at the VapCap, Omnivape and logs like e-nano and underdog.
Out of those which ones are convections and which ones are conductions?

Edit: after some more searching around it seems almost everything is convection except the Vapcap (and Omnivape) which is a hybrid. Correct?

 

[Baron23]

I think i'll buy a new vape specifically for microdosing.
Im looking at the VapCap, Omnivape and logs like e-nano and underdog.
Out of those which ones are convections and which ones are conductions?

Edit: after some more searching around it seems almost everything is convection except the Vapcap (and Omnivape) which is a hybrid. Correct?

The log vapes are full convection.

IMO, the VC's have a significant conduction element but would say that the most recent tips, with improved airflow, have a convection element also.

I do love my VCs, but would NEVER give up my Enano. Too easy to use, too versatile, and quite efficient

 

[stickstones]

@dunwich - I would give water a try, your doctor's advice notwithstanding. I used water for years with no issues and once I started testing a ton of portables water went out the window. I noticed a lot of wear and tear on my throat and tongue from it all. When I went back to some of my water rigs, it was amazing all over again. It only sucks when I put a restrictive vape on the bubbler because the extra effort added by the bubbler can be too much. But when I have a wide open vape on there it is effortless and comfortable. I don't recommend water if you have weak lungs, but that doesn't sound like the problem. You can always try it once or twice and then quit if it feels like doc was right...just my

 

[MinnBobber]

@dunwich - I would give water a try, your doctor's advice notwithstandin

.....................................................
I suggested water earlier and want to say it again, as it makes a HUGE difference in throat and lung comfort. I help a lot of seniors and disabled get started in vaping and every single one of them felt water moisturized vapor was easier on the throat and lungs and a "more pleasant" experience.
The only reason some don't use water is they felt it was a hassle/ they didn't want to deal with filling/emptying/worrying about spilling, etc.

And I'll say what I felt like saying before, about your doctor; he's full of shit on water being bad and he should STFU on subjects where he's ignorant. He may know a hell of a lot in his "domain" but that is pure misguided conjecture .
.....................................................................................
I'll throw out my inhalation comfort scale
negative 10 to zero to plus 10. Zero is neutral

Smoking a joint is (minus 10)
Vapor from different vaporizers might range from (minus 4 to plus 3)
Vapor run thru a warm water bubbler ( plus 5 to plus 8)
That moist vapor can actually feel like it is helping your lungs/ it feels better than just air/ it feels good

And most importantly as @ataxian knows, WATER IS CIVILIZED

 

[ataxian]

.....................................................
I suggested water earlier and want to say it again, as it makes a HUGE difference in throat and lung comfort. I help a lot of seniors and disabled get started in vaping and every single one of them felt water moisturized vapor was easier on the throat and lungs and a "more pleasant" experience.
The only reason some don't use water is they felt it was a hassle/ they didn't want to deal with filling/emptying/worrying about spilling, etc.

And I'll say what I felt like saying before, about your doctor; he's full of shit on water being bad and he should STFU on subjects where he's ignorant. He may know a hell of a lot in his "domain" but that is pure misguided conjecture .
.....................................................................................
I'll throw out my inhalation comfort scale
negative 10 to zero to plus 10. Zero is neutral

Smoking a joint is (minus 10)
Vapor from different vaporizers might range from (minus 4 to plus 3)
Vapor run thru a warm water bubbler ( plus 5 to plus 8)
That moist vapor can actually feel like it is helping your lungs/ it feels better than just air/ it feels good

And most importantly as @ataxian knows, WATER IS CIVILIZED

Water path these daz's!

As a young gun 6 GORILLA sized paper joint's (ZIG ZAG'S) per Day!

OK coughing is no fun.

VAPORIZE each day thru H2O path too live longer. (that is why I like water)

CANNABIS is safer than MILK?
BEING CIVILIZED is BEST!

 

[asdf420]

do you find a little bit of warm water reduces flavor? (I can't taste well, want terpenes)

 

[szai]

do you find a little bit of warm water reduces flavor? (I can't taste well, want terpenes)

You can use glass dry. I don't use water when hitting my sv3 for example. It's smooth enough without and so much tastier and more potent too!

 

[invertedisdead]

do you find a little bit of warm water reduces flavor? (I can't taste well, want terpenes)

I thought I was the only one, I swear it takes a lot of the flavor out to me.

 

[szai]

I thought I was the only one, I swear it takes a lot of the flavor out to me.

Try your water tools dry!

 

[Smoke420]

Easy just stop inhaling, infusion is the best way if you are worried about your lungs.

 

[Jack_Fate]

Hello there! Just signed up because recently I came to the same conclusion as this web's title and also was wondering about this post's same question . The background is this, around a year ago my brother (29) got an spontaneous pneumothorax, he met all the conditions, he is tall and thin and used to smoke cigarretes and joints. The thing scared him away but it wouldn't be many weeks until addiction kicked in, to a lesser degree, but still. Thing is recently he got a new one and even though it wasn't unexpected it was for it to happen so soon, this time it was an even bigger wake up call.

Some time had passed after he got home and anxiety broke in again. We did some research and decided to buy a volcano as well. I also smoke joints, cigarettes I gave up some years ago, but since we live together we decided to give up on combustion together. It definitely has been a big difference, my brother would take a few hits at the bag a few times a day and that gets him going without even considering returning to combustion.

My question is if you would have any piece of advide, I know the ideal is nothing but you know addiction.. and the need of that "scratchy throat" and "smoke out of your mouth" feeling rules out edibles for now, like what temperature is less abusive for his condition or if water would be more recommended.

Thanks!

 

[howie105]

The indicator lights on my vape tell me I am hitting it at 210°C / 410°F through a short dry stem with no problem. Of course many onboard temperature indicators are estimates at best and everybody has a different level of tolerance for heat. Advice on how to address additional cooling with a Volcano is beyond me, they have a rep for being fairly cool out of the box.

 

[pomogirl]

Just to add a late note about water filtration. As a C-Pap user, The machine pushes air into our lungs often with a boost of humidifier water, but we are supposed to always use distilled water especially since it gets heated a bit.

 

[simba]

I thought I was the only one, I swear it takes a lot of the flavor out to me.

I stopped using water in glass pieces for this reason, and now call water filtration the terp-stealer

 

[Curious Gorilla]

To accurately judge the temperature of the herb in the bowl,
First look at ambient temp then measure initial temp of herb in bowl.
then measure temp of glass bowl.
Then measure ambient pressure.
And pressure in the bowl. Then calculate for variation in accuracy of heat control system.
Then.... ahhhhhh fuck it crank the heat on the rubies up hit it hard,(thru water) and laugh your arse off.
If no water, turn it down a touch, more flavour, but swish,rinse and drink after. Your gums will thank you. Trust, gum health is vital.
and just to confuse things harsh terpenes at 180/190 can be much smoother at 217c. or 227c. Hard to tell what the actual temperature is.
However.
Would One/Two hits and done, and leave it for a while, be less aggravating to the lungs, less overall damage if any, than longer slightly cooler sessions?
Bigggest long term issue round heating the chest cavity could be an increase in background radiation but its only going to be by a few milliseverts at most. If im right? And way less heat overall than smoking.
FuckCombustion! FuckPain!

 

[zeusjames]

For me the question is how low can I go and still get high from THC? With my best weed 320°F/160° is adequate but I use 340°F/171°C. For most of the rest of my strains 360°/182° is a better temp.

Temps depend on the vaporizer. I have an Arizer XQ2 desktop and a portable Roffu. If I use the desktop I need to use higher temps for the same results. Bottom line I prefer the Roffu because it is more convenient, uses less weed and gets the job done.

 

[Curious Gorilla]

I suggest that whatever residue is in our lungs from vapourising is actualy protective against heat damage.

Reclaim is condensed vapour. Which seems to be good for burns, and the skin. It does not appear to build up like tar in the lungs, but be largly absorbed through the lining. At a guess. Thought about it alot the last year and a half. It does not seem affect the cilia in the same way as tobacco, or induce excess mucus clearage.
Therefore it may help heal/protect the lungs from damage.
Since quitting combustion, no coughing in the morning, no need to blow my nose with water at night, this would indicate much healthier lungs . I vape flower at quite high temps, kill my bowl in 2 or 3 hits max, and like dark coloured AVB.
my pid sits at around 700f. With the Qaroma (it was 720 with the ceroma). No combustion. Thorough water.
I believe heat damage to lungs would cause an increase in mucous production (not looking it up now its 03.56 am in the uk). Not the case.
For some time i have been experimenting with reclaim, and more lately a small amount of concentrates, as a burn cream when branding myself with vapes.
It seems to work very well,particularly with a few added ingredients if you want to be able to remove it at any point, along with cold running water as first aid to cool the cooking fats under the skin which i have always done,as it is the quickest way to reduce damage with minor burns, i find. I have a small pot of the burn salve i made up from reclaim.
Reasearch using lavender for burns. That works well too.
Do not put butter on burns ! ! !

 

[simba]

For some time i have been experimenting with reclaim, and more lately a small amount of concentrates, as a burn cream when branding myself with vapes.
It seems to work very well,particularly with a few added ingredients if you want to be able to remove it at any point, along with cold running water as first aid to cool the cooking fats under the skin which i have always done,as it is the quickest way to reduce damage with minor burns, i find. I have a small pot of the burn salve i made up from reclaim.
Reasearch using lavender for burns. That works well too.
Do not put butter on burns ! ! !

That's interesting, I've often used CBD and RSO based balms for burns, eczema and whenever I've had issues with my piercings.

 

[Silver420Surfer]

I suggest that whatever residue is in our lungs from vapourising is actualy protective against heat damage.

Reclaim is condensed vapour. Which seems to be good for burns, and the skin. It does not appear to build up like tar in the lungs, but be largly absorbed through the lining. At a guess. Thought about it alot the last year and a half. It does not seem affect the cilia in the same way as tobacco, or induce excess mucus clearage.
Therefore it may help heal/protect the lungs from damage.
Since quitting combustion, no coughing in the morning, no need to blow my nose with water at night, this would indicate much healthier lungs . I vape flower at quite high temps, kill my bowl in 2 or 3 hits max, and like dark coloured AVB.
my pid sits at around 700f. With the Qaroma (it was 720 with the ceroma). No combustion. Thorough water.
I believe heat damage to lungs would cause an increase in mucous production (not looking it up now its 03.56 am in the uk). Not the case.
For some time i have been experimenting with reclaim, and more lately a small amount of concentrates, as a burn cream when branding myself with vapes.
It seems to work very well,particularly with a few added ingredients if you want to be able to remove it at any point, along with cold running water as first aid to cool the cooking fats under the skin which i have always done,as it is the quickest way to reduce damage with minor burns, i find. I have a small pot of the burn salve i made up from reclaim.
Reasearch using lavender for burns. That works well too.
Do not put butter on burns ! ! !

I have found the same with reclaim for burns. Got zapped by enail coil years ago and for whatever reason I quickly put the reclaim from my dab tool on it then a band-aid. I'd say in my experience it cuts the heal time for burns almost in half. Glad to see others having similar use/success.