Massachusetts Lab Investigates How To Dose Yourself When Vaporizing Cannabis

an0maly

an0maly

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Snappo

Snappo

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Does anyone know at what temp the MFLB operates at? The study doesn't refer to a constant or varying temperature, so in total, should only be regarded as a general guideline. Good information though!
 
nopartofme

nopartofme

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Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
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Commendable area of study - and a good start! Perhaps it would be useful to enter a consistent temperature factorization into the equation, from draw-to-draw/vape-to-vape, as this study will likely be used as a reference guide for inquiring experimental minds as well as for those seeking accurate consistent dosing. The study provides a good start, but in this regard i.e., variations in temp from vape-to-vape and from draw-to-draw, results of constituents used and those remaining will vary accordingly. Of course, product quality and makeup will also vary greatly, and results accordingly.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
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mcrlabs said:
If anyone has suggestions, questions, or comments about this study or future studies, we're listening!
Click to expand...
Thanks! May I propose for future study: using high-performance "gas" chromatography to detect specific off-gassing of various vaporizers using materials that may either enter the vapor path, or permeate outside of it into the surrounding air when heated. Also, some vapes are encased in plastic, metallic, or other materials that get rather hot to the touch, and may be catalyzed by the heat to the point off-gassing toxic or non-toxic agents into the air. I don't believe most vaporizers are certified for health safety in this regard, and the health conscious vapor aficionado would probably be relieved that the vape/s they are enjoying are also in keeping with their health conscious goals.
 
z9

z9

Well-Known Member
Yeah the MFLB doesn't seem like the right vaporizer for a study like this, even the most talented MFLB user cannot replicate the same hit every time since one has to coordinate draw speed and length of time holding in the battery.

I'm very surprised they didn't go with old faithful - The Volcano - since you know... its the best vaporizer ever made :rolleyes: It has proven itself to be very consistent in its temperature and fan speed, it has stood the test of time, and is so consistent that its been used for other studies involving vaporization. The Volcano would make a solid benchmark tool, as would the Herbie if used with bags only.

Dosing with a vaporizer is important for medical use, but it doesn't seem as important as dosing for edibles or tinctures which can have very strong, long-lasting effects.
 
Snappo

Snappo

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The Herbalizer is definitely the best vape out there for this very specialized precise study. I'll bet that the Herbalizer company would loan MCR Labs a unit to further this worthy study ...and in return, MCR Labs would provide Herbalizer and their customers the information as part of the Herbie purchase information package - would be a nice feature never provided by any other in the industry.:2c::2c::peace:
 
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mcrlabs

Member
CarolKing said:
Your right Vickie if they are going to do an experiment, they need accurate temps.
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There is much more to experiments than controlling all possible variables. As a matter of fact there are studies where precisely *not* controlling variables is key.

Our aim was to test a genuine user experience and see what the numbers show. In the end, we thought data from user experience is more useful to the community than from a lab-controlled one, since the data produced in this way is more representative of what users might see. We were actually surprised to see such a linear relationship of THC max to # of draws.

To answer some questions:

z9 said:
Yeah the MFLB doesn't seem like the right vaporizer for a study like this, even the most talented MFLB user cannot replicate the same hit every time since one has to coordinate draw speed and length of time holding in the battery.
Click to expand...

We chose the MFLB because it is popular and we wanted to help the most users that we could.

Snappo said:
The Herbalizer is definitely the best vape out there for this very specialized precise study. I'll bet that the Herbalizer company would loan MCR Labs a unit to further this worthy study ...and in return, MCR Labs would provide Herbalizer and their customers the information as part of the Herbie purchase information package - would be a nice feature never provided by any other in the industry.:2c::2c::peace:
Click to expand...

Agreed - great idea. The cost of the vape is only one small fraction of the overall costs to conduct these studies. There are consumable costs - solvents, vials, cannabis, HPLC columns, calibrations, etc. There is Scientist time - not cheap for a qualified professional. There is reporting, planning, etc - this stuff really adds up!

That said, we did do this study out-of-pocket and are happy to be able to provide some data to the community.
 
Snappo

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
mcrlabs said:
There is much more to experiments than controlling all possible variables. As a matter of fact there are studies where precisely *not* controlling variables is key.

Our aim was to test a genuine user experience and see what the numbers show. In the end, we thought data from user experience is more useful to the community than from a lab-controlled one, since the data produced in this way is more representative of what users might see. We were actually surprised to see such a linear relationship of THC max to # of draws.

To answer some questions:



We chose the MFLB because it is popular and we wanted to help the most users that we could.



Agreed - great idea. The cost of the vape is only one small fraction of the overall costs to conduct these studies. There are consumable costs - solvents, vials, cannabis, HPLC columns, calibrations, etc. There is Scientist time - not cheap for a qualified professional. There is reporting, planning, etc - this stuff really adds up!

That said, we did do this study out-of-pocket and are happy to be able to provide some data to the community.
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And we much appreciate your time, expense, effort, expertise, and good will!!! Thank You!!!
EDIT: Heck! Ya never know ...help with funding could very well accompany the loaner to further the good cause!
 
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vap999

Well-Known Member
MCR Labs:

The White Paper is targeted to patients, the "therapeutic cannabis community." Can you provide or refer us to a more detailed, scientific write-up of your study , such as an article, presentation or poster, or even just a good technical abstract? Referrals to related studies are also welcome.

Also, any subjective, even non-scientific, analyses or conclusions from the study, particularly related to vaporizing with the Launch Box? For example, at why point did experienced users start saying the load was spent? Similarly, at what point e.g,. 20th or 30th hit, does your data show that taking more hits becomes unproductive?
 
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mcrlabs

Member
vap999 said:
MCR Labs:

The White Paper is targeted to patients, the "therapeutic cannabis community." Can you provide or refer us to a more detailed, scientific write-up of your study , such as an article, presentation or poster, or even just a good technical abstract? Referrals to related studies are also welcome.

Also, any subjective, even non-scientific, analyses or conclusions from the study, particularly related to vaporizing with the Launch Box? For example, at why point did experienced users start saying the load was spent? Similarly, at what point e.g,. 20th or 30th hit, does your data show that taking more hits becomes unproductive?
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The white paper captures the important details of the original scope, which was limited. The consumption of THC is linear throughout 30 draws, to r^2 = 0.97. If you extrapolate this line it will intercept the 'draws' axis at 40 draws.

Subjective: When prompted they said they believed about 10-15 hits was the limit. This is about when they smelled that burnt popcorn smell.

Our analytical and extraction methods are left out because they are proprietary. They are validated, as we are ISO-17025 accredited. Is there a specific detail in which you're interested?
 
mcrlabs,
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vap999

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MCR Labs: Have you considered vaporizer testing/validation as a line of business, a specialty? Developing analytical data for vaporizer FDA medical device approvals (presumably, so insurance will cover them), supporting vaporizer R&D and marketing claims, etc. -- somebody's going to have to provide these services.
 
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mcrlabs

Member
vap999 said:
MCR Labs: Have you considered vaporizer testing/validation as a line of business, a specialty? Developing analytical data for vaporizer FDA medical device approvals (presumably, so insurance will cover them), supporting vaporizer R&D and marketing claims, etc. -- somebody's going to have to provide these services.
Click to expand...
That's a very interesting idea.

As of right now I don't think the vaporizer manufacturers want to name their products medical devices because that comes with tax increases. Also, this might have to wait until cannabis is reclassified from schedule 1 status.

We've thought about expanding this program to capture more of what the public wants and asking the vaporizer companies to fund it as an added value to their products.
 
an0maly

an0maly

Well-Known Member
@mcrlabs - you might want to consider testing at least one more vaporizer that is a competitor to the MFLB. Considering the popularity and versatility of the Arizer Solo (especially here), I'd say go for that one. Once people have data to compare the MFLB to the Solo, I believe you'll have a better shot to get other companies to be interested in the service. Two from each vape category would be more ideal, but I understand the costs involved.

Have you ever considered using Kickstarter or something similar to fund testing another vaporizer? I have a feeling that you'd get pretty good support from our community here. I haven't been using vaporizers for very long, but the idea of having actual lab tested data to compare them is rather exciting. I am sure that I am not the only one on FC who feels that way.
 
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mcrlabs

Member
an0maly said:
@mcrlabs - you might want to consider testing at least one more vaporizer that is a competitor to the MFLB. Considering the popularity and versatility of the Arizer Solo (especially here), I'd say go for that one. Once people have data to compare the MFLB to the Solo, I believe you'll have a better shot to get other companies to be interested in the service. Two from each vape category would be more ideal, but I understand the costs involved.

Have you ever considered using Kickstarter or something similar to fund testing another vaporizer? I have a feeling that you'd get pretty good support from our community here. I haven't been using vaporizers for very long, but the idea of having actual lab tested data to compare them is rather exciting. I am sure that I am not the only one on FC who feels that way.
Click to expand...
This is a great idea. We're looking into it.
 
Vinman

Vinman

Well-Known Member
mcrlabs said:
If anyone has suggestions, questions, or comments about this study or future studies, we're listening!
Click to expand...

Here's the study I would like to see done, to firmly answer the question of whether holding vaporizer hits longer does any good or not:

The 2006 study titled "Evaluation of a vaporizing device (Volcano) for the pulmonary administration of tetrahydrocannabinol" found that "on average 35% of inhaled THC was directly exhaled again". Conduct a similar-type study but measure the full range of active cannabinoids, and have the breath held in increasing increments of 10 seconds, to establish what breath holding time is most effective.
 
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