Mason jar decarb what's going on in there??

[HarkW2000]

I guess actually thinking about it you don't need the thermocouple for a pressure cooker anyway, if it happens to have a pressure gauge, the ability to add one aftermarket, or if it's setable to particular pressures:

That is, it's worth noting, for altitudes near sea level. The stated pressure on these things is how much they're adding to atmospheric pressure, so at high altitude you can lose several PSI, in Colorado for example. The following chart from the same resource collection is for fudging the readings to account for ambient temperature. Obviously the cooker isn't actually adding less PSI but it's a functional chart for treating a high altitude pressure cooker's readings like it was at sea level.

 

[HarkW2000]

Not sure if those links are working correctly for everybody, so, pressure cooker water temperatures by pressure level, and chart for how to fudge the numbers at high altitude.

 

[sickmanfraud]

Hey guys. Why re-invent the wheel? Here is a link to an index: https://forum.grasscity.com/threads...-youll-like-it.1102315/page-464#post-22424883

There are comparison charts of different decarbs and even decarbing in a jar.

All the info in the charts is via lab testing, not subjective "feelings"

 

[HarkW2000]

I'd not previously made much headway into that thread because it covers such a wide range of topics. The level of effort put is obviously super-impressive and welcome.

Talking narrowly about decarb the post that seems most related (and describes the experimental design) is the Sealed Jar Decarb Comparison Chart post. On the plus side great results with kitchen-ready equipment, and the rigor of lab results. On the other hand it gives the impression of being a 2-mason-jar, one cookiesheet study with an oven and oven thermometer, set running on the hot side of things, which in terms of controlling the inputs is not quite themocouples and oilbaths.

The post after that in the index, Final Decarb Time & Temperature Comparisons Post, concludes that 240-40 is the final word in decarb but it's not entirely clear to me (from the chart - I haven't read the 1000-post thread through) if there's more than 2 runs at 240F/40 there, or if the heating inputs and temperature measurement are different from before.

Believe me I'm not looking at that person's hundreds of pages of helpful tutorials, lab costs, etc. and sticking my nose up in the air and going "uh shoulda bought a thermocouple, scoff." But to me those two posts in isolation are more like useful data than a final word.

I am willing to believe the Ardent Lift is, for whatever reason, going into extreme overkill on the duration side of things with 239F/80m-100m, but it is, at best, perplexing why they'd apparently put a bunch of lab testing into their blogposts but not the R&D of their 300 dollar single-purpose appliance.

 

[CVC4455]

Hey guys. Why re-invent the wheel? Here is a link to an index: https://forum.grasscity.com/threads...-youll-like-it.1102315/page-464#post-22424883

There are comparison charts of different decarbs and even decarbing in a jar.

All the info in the charts is via lab testing, not subjective "feelings"

Yeah that's a place that I've gotten tons of information from. It's a great resource!

I'd not previously made much headway into that thread because it covers such a wide range of topics. The level of effort put is obviously super-impressive and welcome.

Talking narrowly about decarb the post that seems most related (and describes the experimental design) is the Sealed Jar Decarb Comparison Chart post. On the plus side great results with kitchen-ready equipment, and the rigor of lab results. On the other hand it gives the impression of being a 2-mason-jar, one cookiesheet study with an oven and oven thermometer, set running on the hot side of things, which in terms of controlling the inputs is not quite themocouples and oilbaths.

The post after that in the index, Final Decarb Time & Temperature Comparisons Post, concludes that 240-40 is the final word in decarb but it's not entirely clear to me (from the chart - I haven't read the 1000-post thread through) if there's more than 2 runs at 240F/40 there, or if the heating inputs and temperature measurement are different from before.

Believe me I'm not looking at that person's hundreds of pages of helpful tutorials, lab costs, etc. and sticking my nose up in the air and going "uh shoulda bought a thermocouple, scoff." But to me those two posts in isolation are more like useful data than a final word.

I am willing to believe the Ardent Lift is, for whatever reason, going into extreme overkill on the duration side of things with 239F/80m-100m, but it is, at best, perplexing why they'd apparently put a bunch of lab testing into their blogposts but not the R&D of their 300 dollar single-purpose appliance.

There's many more tests on decarb times, temperatures and methods that all have lab tests with them in that thread. It's just the lab tests all cost money and you really need more than 1 test for each different decarb method, time or temperature. You need a test of the fresh material and then the decarbed material otherwise you won't know what's really going on. But there's lab tests in just an oven, in an oil bath, sealed jar, natural decarb method, decarb done in cooking oil, decarb of concentrates, etc..... But it's all spread out over 1,000 plus pages. And pretty much everything has lab tests. The biggest thing using an oven is if the oven keeps a somewhat stable temperature. Even ardent says that's the reason ovens and toster ovens don't work great. But I bought 2 different oven thermometers and my oven isn't that stable around say 400 degrees but at 240 its pretty accurate. The temperature usually stays between 235-245 when it's set to 240 degrees so I just set it and forget about it until the oven timer goes off

There's also skunkpharm that did decarb studies with lab tests too.

 

[Edgedamage]

I would love to do a run in the pressure cooker with a probe in the jar. But with my home equipment thats looking impossable. Last Thursday I did a run in the pressure cooker and again great results at 45min. The toaster oven might be rendered useless for decarbing if the pressure cooker keeps giving results like this.

 

[Genki88]

Interesting thread.......OP what are you doing with the decarbed weed?

 

[HarkW2000]

There's many more tests on decarb times, temperatures and methods that all have lab tests with them in that thread. It's just the lab tests all cost money and you really need more than 1 test for each different decarb method, time or temperature. You need a test of the fresh material and then the decarbed material otherwise you won't know what's really going on. But there's lab tests in just an oven, in an oil bath, sealed jar, natural decarb method, decarb done in cooking oil, decarb of concentrates, etc..... But it's all spread out over 1,000 plus pages.

Yeah I get the impression there's a lot of great info in there those were just what seemed like the two most relevant lines in the index, which is obviously its own bit of voluntary work done for us. The videos PSam has up seem really good too.

And pretty much everything has lab tests. The biggest thing using an oven is if the oven keeps a somewhat stable temperature. Even ardent says that's the reason ovens and toster ovens don't work great. But I bought 2 different oven thermometers and my oven isn't that stable around say 400 degrees but at 240 its pretty accurate. The temperature usually stays between 235-245 when it's set to 240 degrees so I just set it and forget about it until the oven timer goes off

There's also skunkpharm that did decarb studies with lab tests too.

Yeah sadly my oven is garbage at 240F. Reading off an oven thermometer it varies from ~215-260F if just left at 240F, and that's even after the oven has had time to get its internals consistently warm. Then trying to fiddle with the controls between 200F-275F to keep it manually around 240F I'm up against both how slow the thermometer reads, and the utterly stubborn unwillingness of the oven to do what I want... like the thermometer would stay nailed at 250 even as I cracked the door at intervals. It was mostly in the 240s and very rarely above, if the thermometer can be trusted, but that oven not a great tool for the job.

I would love to do a run in the pressure cooker with a probe in the jar. But with my home equipment thats looking impossable. Last Thursday I did a run in the pressure cooker and again great results at 45min. The toaster oven might be rendered useless for decarbing if the pressure cooker keeps giving results like this.

As I say if you can read the pressure anywhere (or if the manual gives a set pressure level that "low/medium/high" settings correspond to, you can correlate it with particular temperatures in the chart I posted a few posts back. With adjustments if you happen to be at high altitude. Granted that doesn't give you how long it takes the internal temperature of the jar to reach more or less the same temperature as the cooking vessel, but nice to know anyway. Glad to hear the results are so good.

 

[Edgedamage]

Interesting thread.......OP what are you doing with the decarbed weed?

I make chocolates mostly in the style of Lego bricks. But first I let the decarbed weed sit for a day with the lid cracked. Just to allow the cannabis to dry out a little. Then I use a motor and pestle, and grind the cannabis into a super fine powder. That allows max absorption for a great high. Measuring two doses from the same decarb run, one normal grind one super fine powder. I almost greened out from the fine powder .

 

[Genki88]

Nice..........

 

[CVC4455]

I make chocolates mostly in the style of Lego bricks. But first I let the decarbed weed sit for a day with the lid cracked. Just to allow the cannabis to dry out a little. Then I use a motor and pestle, and grind the cannabis into a super fine powder. That allows max absorption for a great high. Measuring two doses from the same decarb run, one normal grind one super fine powder. I almost greened out from the fine powder .

One thing I usually do when decarbing in a sealed jar is let the bud sit out for at least a few hours but occasionally longer to let moisture evaporate, if you do that 1st it should be pretty dry as soon as it's decarbed

 

[Edgedamage]

One thing I usually do when decarbing in a sealed jar is let the bud sit out for at least a few hours but occasionally longer to let moisture evaporate, if you do that 1st it should be pretty dry as soon as it's decarbed

Thank you, I will try that next time.

 

[newflyguyga]

Hey guys. Why re-invent the wheel? Here is a link to an index: https://forum.grasscity.com/threads...-youll-like-it.1102315/page-464#post-22424883

There are comparison charts of different decarbs and even decarbing in a jar.

All the info in the charts is via lab testing, not subjective "feelings"

TOTALLY what I was looking for, awesomesauce!

 

[BKBK]

So a little update, shortly after I posted on Firday about 15 mins later the edible really hit. And wow did it ever hit like a lead fist. I have done this strain before in my toaster oven, @ 45min in the pressure cooker it was way stronger. Than 40min in the oven. I now think the pressure cooker is my new no smell, great results device to use for decarb.

Hi! New member who just got an Instant Pot for Christmas and was about to decarb a bunch of shake in a mason jar in my oven. Just so I understand your process, are you just standing a sealed mason jar up in the stainless steel pot within Instant Pot with some water around it? If so, what size mason jar and Instant Pot are you using? I've got a 6qt Duo Nova. Are you pressure cooking on high pressure? I'd love to give this a shot instead of the oven.

Thanks for any help you can provide me!!

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

Hi! New member who just got an Instant Pot for Christmas and was about to decarb a bunch of shake in a mason jar in my oven. Just so I understand your process, are you just standing a sealed mason jar up in the stainless steel pot within Instant Pot with some water around it? If so, what size mason jar and Instant Pot are you using? I've got a 6qt Duo Nova. Are you pressure cooking on high pressure? I'd love to give this a shot instead of the oven.

Thanks for any help you can provide me!!

3 threads about using an Instant Pot to decarb/make butter:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/instant-pot-decarb-extract.26157/

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/pressure-cooker-butter-so-effecient-20-minutes.10631/

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/decarb-with-an-instant-pot-pressure-cooker.25233/

So much cheaper than the single purpose machines for this, and you can make yogurt!

Ooooo, now I am wondering about making yogurt from cannamilk ...

 

[Cwglazier]

I decarb in a sealed jar too. I've done something similar and I was getting about 20-25 minutes for the air in the jar to get to 240 degrees. But it's about more then just time and temperature in a sealed jar. When you heat a sealed container there's a difference in pressure inside the sealed jar vs if the jar had no lid while being heated. I kind of understand it but not really well enough to explain it without probably confusing you. But that difference in pressure can affect the boiling point of water and apparently it affects how fast the decarb happens. I've seen tests of a sealed jar decarb, both were at 240 degrees but one was for 60 minutes the other was 45 minutes. I forget the exact numbers but if you want I can try to find the lab results? But at 60 minutes there was no THC-A left it was all converted to THC and there were slight increases in other cannabinoids. But there was THC that was lost or destroyed or whatever. In the 45 minute decarb there was a very small % of THC-A left but it was such a small amount that I'd call it a full decarb. The total amount of THC was also higher meaning that 45 minutes was better than 60 minutes in a sealed jar. Originally I thought like you if the air in the jar takes at least 20 minutes to get to 240 degrees then it would make sense to add 20 minutes to the decarb but it doesn't exactly work like that.

I'd suggest you try doing both though and see if can tell the difference?

Yes pressure or vacuume will change the boiling points of all the water, flavonoids terpenes and acids or whayever. It will lower the amount of temp or time needed in some way.

 

[fcprofile]

Pressure cooker internal measurements (InstantPot)

So I got a temperature logger that can measure temperatures up to 257 F and did some testing to finally get an answer to what does the temperature look like inside the pressure cooker while it is running (see results below).

First I ran the temperature data logger in a bath of boiling water to make sure I get a correct 212 F reading for that.
direct boiling water

Then I ran the temperature logger inside the pressure cooker for 120 min at high pressure. For that I vacuum sealed the logger because even though it is IP67 rated running it in water under that amount of pressure would put it outside of it's spec. The assumption here is that having a vacuum seal bag encasing the logger should not change the recorded results in a meaningful way.
vacuum sealed inside pressure cooker under high pressure

Then, for comparison, I ran the same test as above but at the low pressure setting.
vacuum sealed inside pressure cooker under low pressure

And then I ran the logger inside a 16 oz wide mouth sealed mason jar that was put inside the pressure cooker at the high pressure setting for 120 min.
mason jar inside pressure cooker under high pressure

All pressure cooker tests were done with 2 liters (~1/2 gallon) of water and with the logger or the mason jar sitting on top of the steamer insert (the logger is submerged fully, the standing mason jar about half way).

Main takeaways:

• the data logger measure temperature accurately as verified with the boiling test
• the pressure cooker reaches (almost) 240 F under high pressure which matches expectations based on the pressure vs temperature table that was posted earlier and the knowledge that the InstantPot operates between 10.15 and 11.6 psi (source)
• under low pressure the pressure cooker runs about 7 F lower than under high pressure
• when using a mason jar inside the pressure cooker it takes a long time before the temperature inside the mason jar gets close to the actual temperature inside the pressure cooker
• Even after 120 minutes the temperature inside the mason jar does not seem to go above 227 F
• decarbing inside a mason jar in the pressure cooker may still work but the "magic" 240 F temperature is never reached and the temperature profile inside the glass is not what I expected
• to get an actual idea about how well decarbing inside the mason jar inside the pressure cooker works a lot of lab testing would be needed (several samples at different durations), maybe at least 3 samples each tested raw (no decarb), 45 minutes, 90 minutes and 120 minutes, which would be 12 lab tests

I am curious what everyone else is thinking about the test results.

 

[rotnot]

Pressure cooker internal measurements (InstantPot)

This is golden. Kudos to you.

Would love to see the same experiment done with classic PCs.
Both US canners (15psi/1.03bar) and EU pressure cookers (0.5/0.85bar).

 

[Marilynh]

Pressure cooker internal measurements (InstantPot)

So I got a temperature logger that can measure temperatures up to 257 F and did some testing to finally get an answer to what does the temperature look like inside the pressure cooker while it is running (see results below).

First I ran the temperature data logger in a bath of boiling water to make sure I get a correct 212 F reading for that.
direct boiling water

Then I ran the temperature logger inside the pressure cooker for 120 min at high pressure. For that I vacuum sealed the logger because even though it is IP67 rated running it in water under that amount of pressure would put it outside of it's spec. The assumption here is that having a vacuum seal bag encasing the logger should not change the recorded results in a meaningful way.
vacuum sealed inside pressure cooker under high pressure

Then, for comparison, I ran the same test as above but at the low pressure setting.
vacuum sealed inside pressure cooker under low pressure

And then I ran the logger inside a 16 oz wide mouth sealed mason jar that was put inside the pressure cooker at the high pressure setting for 120 min.
mason jar inside pressure cooker under high pressure

All pressure cooker tests were done with 2 liters (~1/2 gallon) of water and with the logger or the mason jar sitting on top of the steamer insert (the logger is submerged fully, the standing mason jar about half way).

Main takeaways:

• the data logger measure temperature accurately as verified with the boiling test
• the pressure cooker reaches (almost) 240 F under high pressure which matches expectations based on the pressure vs temperature table that was posted earlier and the knowledge that the InstantPot operates between 10.15 and 11.6 psi (source)
• under low pressure the pressure cooker runs about 7 F lower than under high pressure
• when using a mason jar inside the pressure cooker it takes a long time before the temperature inside the mason jar gets close to the actual temperature inside the pressure cooker
• Even after 120 minutes the temperature inside the mason jar does not seem to go above 227 F
• decarbing inside a mason jar in the pressure cooker may still work but the "magic" 240 F temperature is never reached and the temperature profile inside the glass is not what I expected
• to get an actual idea about how well decarbing inside the mason jar inside the pressure cooker works a lot of lab testing would be needed (several samples at different durations), maybe at least 3 samples each tested raw (no decarb), 45 minutes, 90 minutes and 120 minutes, which would be 12 lab tests

I am curious what everyone else is thinking about the test results.

I just made a Tincture. Decarb High Pressure for 45 Minutes in a mason jar. Add MCT oil in a mason jar and set Instantpot to 30 minutes
High Pressure with natural release. I tested and it seems much stronger than oven decarb in jar and Everclear in freezer method. So, I'm not sure what is going on in there but it works for me.

 

[Marilynh]

Pressure cooker internal measurements (InstantPot)

So I got a temperature logger that can measure temperatures up to 257 F and did some testing to finally get an answer to what does the temperature look like inside the pressure cooker while it is running (see results below).

First I ran the temperature data logger in a bath of boiling water to make sure I get a correct 212 F reading for that.
direct boiling water

Then I ran the temperature logger inside the pressure cooker for 120 min at high pressure. For that I vacuum sealed the logger because even though it is IP67 rated running it in water under that amount of pressure would put it outside of it's spec. The assumption here is that having a vacuum seal bag encasing the logger should not change the recorded results in a meaningful way.
vacuum sealed inside pressure cooker under high pressure

Then, for comparison, I ran the same test as above but at the low pressure setting.
vacuum sealed inside pressure cooker under low pressure

And then I ran the logger inside a 16 oz wide mouth sealed mason jar that was put inside the pressure cooker at the high pressure setting for 120 min.
mason jar inside pressure cooker under high pressure

All pressure cooker tests were done with 2 liters (~1/2 gallon) of water and with the logger or the mason jar sitting on top of the steamer insert (the logger is submerged fully, the standing mason jar about half way).

Main takeaways:

• the data logger measure temperature accurately as verified with the boiling test
• the pressure cooker reaches (almost) 240 F under high pressure which matches expectations based on the pressure vs temperature table that was posted earlier and the knowledge that the InstantPot operates between 10.15 and 11.6 psi (source)
• under low pressure the pressure cooker runs about 7 F lower than under high pressure
• when using a mason jar inside the pressure cooker it takes a long time before the temperature inside the mason jar gets close to the actual temperature inside the pressure cooker
• Even after 120 minutes the temperature inside the mason jar does not seem to go above 227 F
• decarbing inside a mason jar in the pressure cooker may still work but the "magic" 240 F temperature is never reached and the temperature profile inside the glass is not what I expected
• to get an actual idea about how well decarbing inside the mason jar inside the pressure cooker works a lot of lab testing would be needed (several samples at different durations), maybe at least 3 samples each tested raw (no decarb), 45 minutes, 90 minutes and 120 minutes, which would be 12 lab tests

I am curious what everyone else is thinking about the test results.

What kind of pressure cooker are you using? Brand?

 

[shredder]

Reading all this makes the nova seem better and better.

 

[vonfatman]

Great information on the inside working temps. Thank you for your efforts and time.
There are some amazing the tools, trinkets & bobbles out there that are making it easier to
cook, extract, infuse, and generally better understand cannabis.

I now decarb all flower, kief and concentrates in our Pot.
The way my hash oil caps & powdered flower caps and are working, I am gonna go out on a limb and suggest that
this pressure cooker is getting the job done. (Our pot is a “Nuwave” brand - 8 Quart)

It takes 10 or so minutes to pre-heat the Pot. 20 min. at PSI. Natural cool-down - usually I wait at least an hour or overnite before I pull the decarb’d goods. Some have suggested extra decarb time for concentrates. Some have mentioned double or triple decarb’n to make the meds more sleep directed. It is all very easy to adjust. Want a double decarb?, Run it twice. If you have one of these pots and prefer to run that baby at 240 degrees F….you can. You just can’t make the Pot get hotter than the regulated temperature in pressure cooker mode.

Does anyone know how the pressure effects the goods? My guess is it assists in the decarb. But what do I know

vfm

 

[macbill]

I'm decarbing 7 grams of cheap concentrate to make some cheap tincture with Everclear.

slightly tight Mason jar lid

2 cups water: Mason jar in basket

40 minutes full pressure. I'll add my results.

40 min not enough. See large bubbles. I had to finish off on a 300 F hot plate

 

[vonfatman]

don't the bubbles indicate alcohol remains in the tinsure? I was expecting you were wanting some alcohol in the goods unless the plan was to work down/out all alcohol, then add back oil for caps or a topical.

just curious.


oh, and the semi-loose lid? i read this but don't have troubles tightening the lids on my jars....when i pull them out they are all vacuum sealed! and i have to admit, they are solidly decrbed as no prisoners were taken;-)
vfm

 

[macbill]

That’s what decarbing does. It does a little organic chem turning THC-A into psychoactive THC by releasing co2. The big bubbles indicate still pulling carbon dioxide out of material.

"CO2 bubble production will proceed at its own observable rate. By keeping the puddle of oil lightly stirred on the bottom and in the corners of the pot (I use a bamboo skewer), so as to keep the bubbles broken free and floating to the top, you can tell exactly when the bubble formation suddenly tapers off at the top of the curve."
from https://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/