Making shatter.. what am i doing wrong?

[thatguyfrom613]

so i got a vac and chamber (1.5 cfm) got my big pot with water and my small chamber sitting in my big pot....(on a skillet, what temps do you set your skillets too?) I have been busy and have been doing this at a buddy's house just to test I had to leave so couldn't monitor temps and I dont think he did a very good job... I want shatter am i not getting good results because of my temps? (testing with shake also but i assume that has nothing to do with what the product is just what quality it will be right?

 

[DieHard]

Welcome to FC. It has to be said with DIY concentrates. SAFETY FIRST! I purge below 100F. There is a formula involving temperature, your altitude, and the amount of vacuum in in/Hg. Just looking at it, it looks like you are far from finished from purging. It typically takes 2 days @ 97F and 28"/Hg for my purge.
Maybe @herbivore21 can drop some knowledge here.

 

[thatguyfrom613]

Thanks for your reply, Yes safety first of course!!!!!

Deff not finished but I did a run before this and it came out the same color and consistency at the top of the picture (waxy and burnt looking), if you look on the lower part of the picture it kinda looks like shatter (supposedly he turned the grill down to 200F at that point and going to keep purging to see end result).

How do you purge? on a hot plate? is your skillet at 100F or your oil?

 

[DieHard]

I use a skillet controlled by a BBQ Guru temperature controller that I use for my smoker. It controls the skillet precisely using a probe in the water.

 

[herbivore21]

Welcome to FC. It has to be said with DIY concentrates. SAFETY FIRST! I purge below 100F. There is a formula involving temperature, your altitude, and the amount of vacuum in in/Hg. Just looking at it, it looks like you are far from finished from purging. It typically takes 2 days @ 97F and 28"/Hg for my purge.
Maybe @herbivore21 can drop some knowledge here.

It's interesting man, I'm seeing a small resurgence in interest for solvent teks around here. For a long time, everyone went over to rosin lol.

There are a number of factors we need to take into account when purging.

First of all, which solvent is being used? This is crucial information to determine what pressure/temp will be required.

Secondly are you measuring the pressure in the chamber? It is crucial to use a gauge to ensure that you are creating the right relative pressure in the chamber. Vac purging is not as simple as connecting a vacuum pump to a chamber and just turning it on for a while and waiting til the material looks done. This could easily lead to serious over purging or could the slowest, longest purge you've ever tried.

Ideal purge temp is a variable that changes with the relative pressure in the chamber. There is no 'right' purge temp, only the right temp for a given solvent at a given chamber pressure. In fact, solvents can be cold boiled using no heat at all given the right chamber pressure!

With some more info on the solvent being used, whether there is a pressure gauge on hand and what kind of heat setup is needed, I can help more specifically

That pic up top definitely still has plenty of residual solvent leftover. Also the errl is not at all evenly spread in a thin film which will lead to very uneven purge - once you have fully purged all of that oil, some sections (the smaller, thinner deposits) will be way overpurged.

I do not purge on parchment at all, ever. I do not recommend the use of any kind of parchment/silicone in a vac chamber. Remember that the wrong chamber pressure/temp combination is gonna lead to offgassing of such substances. If you are not measuring temp and pressure in the chamber, you are really taking your chances on this one! I suggest using nothing but borosilicate dishes for purging solvent out of a solution.

Proper purpose-made lab glass dishes are best, since these will be perfectly flat, allowing for the thinnest, most even possible distribution of your solution across the surface for faster, more even purge.

 

[thatguyfrom613]

Ahhh so my theory is wrong, I thought it was all in the temps.

Ok so I am using butane 7x - I do not have a gauge I figured since its only a 1.5 CFM pump that it would only get to -25 to -28 hpa (from what I have read) but maybe that info was false. Does my location matter? I am in Ontario, Canada. I guess I will be getting a gauge - I got a temp gun that works pretty good.

When blasting i blast into glass dish, in a bigger dish with warm water, i was careful to not go higher then 100 F during this process. Then i put on parchment paper and threw in the vac chamber, next time i will spread it around evenly. After this i left it with my friend not sure how well he was monitoring the temps.

 

[Jeppy]

Leave it to the pros.

 

[herbivore21]

Ahhh so my theory is wrong, I thought it was all in the temps.

Ok so I am using butane 7x - I do not have a gauge I figured since its only a 1.5 CFM pump that it would only get to -25 to -28 hpa (from what I have read) but maybe that info was false. Does my location matter? I am in Ontario, Canada. I guess I will be getting a gauge - I got a temp gun that works pretty good.

When blasting i blast into glass dish, in a bigger dish with warm water, i was careful to not go higher then 100 F during this process. Then i put on parchment paper and threw in the vac chamber, next time i will spread it around evenly. After this i left it with my friend not sure how well he was monitoring the temps.

Please do not put parchment in a vacuum chamber. Especially if you have no gauge to measure what is going on in there. Your local barometry is a crucial detail in determining the appropriate chamber temp/pressure for purge. Is your pump an oilless diaphragm pump with PTFE internals? It is very important that you use a pump rated for use with your chosen solvent.

Keep the purge on glass, proper lab glass that will sit evenly and allow for the most perfectly even film of your material possible. It is very important that the purging solution is spread very evenly over a very evenly heated surface. Glass is the only appropriate material to sit your solution inside of until the solvent is gone. Scrape the dish, it really isn't that hard and eliminates so many potential problems that can emerge from putting parchment into a vac chamber with your solution under unmeasured conditions.

Are you applying heat in the vac chamber too? This is also very important. With a 1.5cfm pump you are really gonna struggle to achieve sufficient chamber pressure to cold boil all of your butane!

You are gonna need to spend more cash (a hell of a lot more if you don't have a PTFE diaphragm pump!) at this stage and it may be worth considering just using rosin tek, it is probably still gonna give you better dabs anyway

 

[Valleydabanomics209]

It's interesting man, I'm seeing a small resurgence in interest for solvent teks around here. For a long time, everyone went over to rosin lol.

There are a number of factors we need to take into account when purging.

First of all, which solvent is being used? This is crucial information to determine what pressure/temp will be required.

Secondly are you measuring the pressure in the chamber? It is crucial to use a gauge to ensure that you are creating the right relative pressure in the chamber. Vac purging is not as simple as connecting a vacuum pump to a chamber and just turning it on for a while and waiting til the material looks done. This could easily lead to serious over purging or could the slowest, longest purge you've ever tried.

Ideal purge temp is a variable that changes with the relative pressure in the chamber. There is no 'right' purge temp, only the right temp for a given solvent at a given chamber pressure. In fact, solvents can be cold boiled using no heat at all given the right chamber pressure!

With some more info on the solvent being used, whether there is a pressure gauge on hand and what kind of heat setup is needed, I can help more specifically

That pic up top definitely still has plenty of residual solvent leftover. Also the errl is not at all evenly spread in a thin film which will lead to very uneven purge - once you have fully purged all of that oil, some sections (the smaller, thinner deposits) will be way overpurged.

I do not purge on parchment at all, ever. I do not recommend the use of any kind of parchment/silicone in a vac chamber. Remember that the wrong chamber pressure/temp combination is gonna lead to offgassing of such substances. If you are not measuring temp and pressure in the chamber, you are really taking your chances on this one! I suggest using nothing but borosilicate dishes for purging solvent out of a solution.

Proper purpose-made lab glass dishes are best, since these will be perfectly flat, allowing for the thinnest, most even possible distribution of your solution across the surface for faster, more even purge.

Hey

Please do not put parchment in a vacuum chamber. Especially if you have no gauge to measure what is going on in there. Your local barometry is a crucial detail in determining the appropriate chamber temp/pressure for purge. Is your pump an oilless diaphragm pump with PTFE internals? It is very important that you use a pump rated for use with your chosen solvent.

Keep the purge on glass, proper lab glass that will sit evenly and allow for the most perfectly even film of your material possible. It is very important that the purging solution is spread very evenly over a very evenly heated surface. Glass is the only appropriate material to sit your solution inside of until the solvent is gone. Scrape the dish, it really isn't that hard and eliminates so many potential problems that can emerge from putting parchment into a vac chamber with your solution under unmeasured conditions.

Are you applying heat in the vac chamber too? This is also very important. With a 1.5cfm pump you are really gonna struggle to achieve sufficient chamber pressure to cold boil all of your butane!

You are gonna need to spend more cash (a hell of a lot more if you don't have a PTFE diaphragm pump!) at this stage and it may be worth considering just using rosin tek, it is probably still gonna give you better dabs anyway

Hey how's it going friend! Hope your still active because you sound like you know hash! So I need your help if you could spare the advice. I've been making bho for years but never had my own vacuum purger so now that I have one I do not know how to properly use it. So let me fill you in on this most recent run which I need help making it into shatter. So I ran over 1lb of trim with atleast a qp of nugs inside but was slightly premature and I know that will effect the quality of my hash but will it prevent it too shatter? Too much chlorophyll? So I ran into parchment placed atop the Pyrex dish. Heated with pancake plate on low which it 98-100f. After purged down I had 20 grams and have been purging it in the chamber the past couple days but only a couple hours a day. My hot plate goes on and off like you mentioned but Ive taking mychamber off and on because I'm scared to burn. I have a single stage 3cfm pump BVV. How often should I release pressure on my chamber? Well that's enough for now if you can get back ASAP please thanks!

 

[herbivore21]

Hey


Hey how's it going friend! Hope your still active because you sound like you know hash! So I need your help if you could spare the advice. I've been making bho for years but never had my own vacuum purger so now that I have one I do not know how to properly use it. So let me fill you in on this most recent run which I need help making it into shatter. So I ran over 1lb of trim with atleast a qp of nugs inside but was slightly premature and I know that will effect the quality of my hash but will it prevent it too shatter? Too much chlorophyll? So I ran into parchment placed atop the Pyrex dish. Heated with pancake plate on low which it 98-100f. After purged down I had 20 grams and have been purging it in the chamber the past couple days but only a couple hours a day. My hot plate goes on and off like you mentioned but Ive taking mychamber off and on because I'm scared to burn. I have a single stage 3cfm pump BVV. How often should I release pressure on my chamber? Well that's enough for now if you can get back ASAP please thanks!

Greetings!

A few things to establish first of all. You need to measure the pressure inside your chamber with an appropriate gauge. If you do not do this, you simply cannot conclusively know that you're purging effectively or efficiently. It is similar to heat purging without ever bothering to check the temperature you are using to purge!

I am unable to access my charts just now so can't give you the details on your ideal chamber pressure but first things first: can you get your pancake heater to stay at a steady temperature? It sounds like you are unable to. If you can't achieve a steady temp you aren't gonna be able to adjust the required pressure quickly/accurately enough to account for rapid, intermittent variations in temp. The two (heat and pressure) are inextricably related variables.

By the way, immature resin is often more likely to shatter than very mature resin, which will have more terpenes and more decarbed THC/even possibly a little CBN content. You shouldn't get extra chlorophyll into your wash frpm immature flower unless your wash time or temp is not dialled in (or your flowers are crushed/ground up).

Hope this helps you starting out man!

 

[Valleydabanomics209]

V


Greetings!

A few things to establish first of all. You need to measure the pressure inside your chamber with an appropriate gauge. If you do not do this, you simply cannot conclusively know that you're purging effectively or efficiently. It is similar to heat purging without ever bothering to check the temperature you are using to purge!

I am unable to access my charts just now so can't give you the details on your ideal chamber pressure but first things first: can you get your pancake heater to stay at a steady temperature? It sounds like you are unable to. If you can't achieve a steady temp you aren't gonna be able to adjust the required pressure quickly/accurately enough to account for rapid, intermittent variations in temp. The two (heat and pressure) are inextricably related variables.

By the way, immature resin is often more likely to shatter than very mature resin, which will have more terpenes and more decarbed THC/even possibly a little CBN content. You shouldn't get extra chlorophyll into your wash frpm immature flower unless your wash time or temp is not dialled in (or your flowers are crushed/ground up).

Hope this helps you starting out man!

Thanks for the reply!
Okay so I should have clarified earlier I am using a 3 gallon chamber from BVV with pressure release valve and pressure gauge rated for -30hg. I am in stockton, ca ,elevation 13ft lol, so my charts says 29.92 for ideal vacuum.
Also I was trying to test temps with my plate earlier to see how much the heat fluctuates but couldn't get a reading because I'm using a home thermometer but I'm guessing it is 110-115f which I'm scared is too hot so I was unplugging it and waited untill it read 100f to put the plate on and repeated the process .
That is interesting to know! I was just disappointed and felt I should have gotten a better output. But always next run!

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks for the reply!
Okay so I should have clarified earlier I am using a 3 gallon chamber from BVV with pressure release valve and pressure gauge rated for -30hg. I am in stockton, ca ,elevation 13ft lol, so my charts says 29.92 for ideal vacuum.
Also I was trying to test temps with my plate earlier to see how much the heat fluctuates but couldn't get a reading because I'm using a home thermometer but I'm guessing it is 110-115f which I'm scared is too hot so I was unplugging it and waited untill it read 100f to put the plate on and repeated the process .
That is interesting to know! I was just disappointed and felt I should have gotten a better output. But always next run!

Of course, this brings me to a very important variable before we can narrow things down - which solvent are you using? I had assumed you were using butane but given that you are using that vacuum pressure and mention using charts I am guessing you are using an alcohol?

 

[Valleydabanomics209]

V


Greetings!

A few things to establish first of all. You need to measure the pressure inside your chamber with an appropriate gauge. If you do not do this, you simply cannot conclusively know that you're purging effectively or efficiently. It is similar to heat purging without ever bothering to check the temperature you are using to purge!

I am unable to access my charts just now so can't give you the details on your ideal chamber pressure but first things first: can you get your pancake heater to stay at a steady temperature? It sounds like you are unable to. If you can't achieve a steady temp you aren't gonna be able to adjust the required pressure quickly/accurately enough to account for rapid, intermittent variations in temp. The two (heat and pressure) are inextricably related variables.

By the way, immature resin is often more likely to shatter than very mature resin, which will have more terpenes and more decarbed THC/even possibly a little CBN content. You shouldn't get extra chlorophyll into your wash frpm immature flower unless your wash time or temp is not dialled in (or your flowers are crushed/ground up).

Hope this helps you starting out man!

Of course, this brings me to a very important variable before we can narrow things down - which solvent are you using? I had assumed you were using butane but given that you are using that vacuum pressure and mention using charts I am guessing you are using an alcohol?

I am using butane and honestly am not even sure if I'm using the chart correctly.. Lol just mocking what it said. And also I have a question about blasting on pharchment and purging on parchment and slick pads in the chamber. How do it affect the hash? And where can I get the special glass plates you refereed to that other fellow months ago. And is my pump good enough for what I'm doing I meant to call BVV and ask if the pumps are PTFE rated.. Again not new to making hash but am an new to vacuum purging so I do appreciate your assistance!!

 

[herbivore21]

Alright, this helps us clear things up some

Butane has an insanely low boiling point compared to alcohol solvents. Your chosen pressure is a hell of a lot of negative vacuum. Remember that butane is not like alcohol based solvents that I used to use. Alcohol based solvents have a much higher boiling point and so we use quite a high negative vacuum pressure (like what you've been using) to lower the boiling point required for the purge. Of course, what you have been using will work to some extent, but you may not find that you get ideal finished product due to overpurge/underpurge depending on how long you take it.

Butane already has a super low boiling point and reducing this further by vacuum is not the goal. The vacuum is being used more to give a negative force to lift the residual butane out of your extract in the liquid phase. Your heat is in turn being used to get your extract/residual solvent mixture into a liquid phase allowing the butane to escape. Obviously, the final step of the purge is not using heat because the butane isn't already hot enough to boil - obviously most of the tane evaporates at below room temp at atmospheric pressure!

I suggest using a very low negative pressure and keep your temps and 100f. See how you go with -1 inhg on your gauge to start with and if the purge seems to be taking forever or not working, then pull down slightly more. I will say for your benefit that I have never been one to extract with butane because I have always had much easier access to clean alcohol based solvents than clean butane with no mystery oil/mercaptans etc. I am purely using my theoretical knowledge here.

I am actually curious now as to whether we could improve the purge process for butane over conventional methods by using a series of various different kinds of vac pumps to achieve a positive gauge pressure (crazy right?!) and potentially get a pressure/temp combination that will allow the boiling point of the butane to actually meet the melting point of the crude extract we're trying to get it out of? Melting points do not change under vacuum in the same way as boiling points and usually the variation in melting point of a compound is much greater than the variation in boiling point under vacuum. There is no universal equation that I know of to determine the changes in melting points of all substances under vacuum, especially not mixtures of many substances like the extracts we are making.

If I am on the right track in my thinking the above technique will improve terp retention! Of course, this is not likely to be an affordable home setup. This would require the use of two or more kinds of vacuum pumps (expensive ones!) as well as a chamber suitable for high vacuum applications using different gaskets/connections to what are alright when you're just using a single, run of the mill rotary vane pump.

Regarding pumps:

Most of BVV's pumps are not oilless pumps nor do they use PTFE internals - IIRC they may offer one or two such models but the cost is MUCH greater than others. Ain't no escaping the fact that a proper pump for purging these solvents is gonna cost more than most folks are willing to spend. Still I do not support nor condone the use of non oilless pumps with typical internals that can outgas with the changes in pressure combined with contact with the effluent evacuating from the chamber. IMHO when you are using flammable/dangerous substances you use the right tools every time with no exceptions.

Proper scientific glass (ie: not a clear bong lol) vessels like I recommended in the past is generally available either on ebay second hand or brand new from various lab suppliers. They are expensive. It is also made to sit properly flat and give you proper even heat distribution for boiling and a perfectly flat surface etc. If you can't get proper lab glass, the compromise will be borosilicate cooking dishes (look for the flattest most even bottom of the dish possible) that you can get to sit relatively flat using a level tool.

Hope this helps man

 

[Valleydabanomics209]

Okay okay I see the light now! Lol yes it clears things up and feel much more at ease and confident purging my hash knowing I'm not screwing it up. I was just under the impression that having the vacuum will automatically make my bho shatter but I guess that was simple thinking for science and didn't include the other factors. You've helped though my hash is looking very good and smells delicious compared to the first sample I vacuumed which I burnt the shit out of lol I'm trying to figure how to get pics on this thing..
So I've secluded myself away from other hash technics since bho became big and focused on learning that but I want to experiment with different solvents again like alcohol. I have a couple ounces of bud I was going to run and do bho but I'm curious what would give me the best quality and output?

Your the man bro!

 

[MileHighLife]

I am using butane and honestly am not even sure if I'm using the chart correctly.. Lol just mocking what it said. And also I have a question about blasting on pharchment and purging on parchment and slick pads in the chamber. How do it affect the hash? And where can I get the special glass plates you refereed to that other fellow months ago. And is my pump good enough for what I'm doing I meant to call BVV and ask if the pumps are PTFE rated.. Again not new to making hash but am an new to vacuum purging so I do appreciate your assistance!!

Just a heads up ... blasting onto parchment is a bad idea. Silicone and butane are not compatible with one another. Blasting into ptfe sheet (like slick sheet) works but it's a bitch to remove your resin from the sheet. IMO the best way to go is blast into a pyrex pie dish then place into another dish with warm water to purge off the majority of the butane. Place the pie dish in your vac chamber and vac purge for half hour or so. Scrape up your resin with a razor blade and place on a slick pad (or parchment). Now you can purge your resin.

Next step ... build a rosin press

 

[Valleydabanomics209]

Just a heads up ... blasting onto parchment is a bad idea. Silicone and butane are not compatible with one another. Blasting into ptfe sheet (like slick sheet) works but it's a bitch to remove your resin from the sheet. IMO the best way to go is blast into a pyrex pie dish then place into another dish with warm water to purge off the majority of the butane. Place the pie dish in your vac chamber and vac purge for half hour or so. Scrape up your resin with a razor blade and place on a slick pad (or parchment). Now you can purge your resin.

Next step ... build a rosin press

Yeah right on. No more parchment lol it was my first time doing it that way I heard it was an easier way to have all the hash collected after the blast and purge instead of scraping the dish. But you are saying it is cool to vacuum on a slick pad correct? That's is how I am currently doing it. Also i don't want to sound simple but as I told herbivore21 I have secluded myself to bho the past couple years and didn't keep up to date with the new things etc. so can you send me some link on what exactly is rosin and how I would make that type of hash please lol

 

[herbivore21]

Okay okay I see the light now! Lol yes it clears things up and feel much more at ease and confident purging my hash knowing I'm not screwing it up. I was just under the impression that having the vacuum will automatically make my bho shatter but I guess that was simple thinking for science and didn't include the other factors. You've helped though my hash is looking very good and smells delicious compared to the first sample I vacuumed which I burnt the shit out of lol I'm trying to figure how to get pics on this thing..
So I've secluded myself away from other hash technics since bho became big and focused on learning that but I want to experiment with different solvents again like alcohol. I have a couple ounces of bud I was going to run and do bho but I'm curious what would give me the best quality and output?

Your the man bro!

The shatter consistency will be better achieved using higher boiling solvents (alcohols) and heat only purge IME. Shatter is easily achieved when you use temps that will remove the terpenes from your extract during the purge. I personally view destruction/loss of terpenes as a cardinal sin! As Milehighlife suggests you should really check out rosin since you'll quickly see that BHO just doesn't compare. There is a reason that BHO goes for 20-50 USD a gram when flower rosin can sell at Ca dispensaries for $100 a g!!!

Rosin will give you the best results of the oil extraction techniques, short of full melt hash (which is the holy grail!). Anything solvent-based that is going to give better final product than good flower rosin is generally not safe for personal processing in the home and I would not detail this sort of information here.

Glad to have helped you brother! Hope you get some great results with your next run!

Just a heads up ... blasting onto parchment is a bad idea. Silicone and butane are not compatible with one another. Blasting into ptfe sheet (like slick sheet) works but it's a bitch to remove your resin from the sheet. IMO the best way to go is blast into a pyrex pie dish then place into another dish with warm water to purge off the majority of the butane. Place the pie dish in your vac chamber and vac purge for half hour or so. Scrape up your resin with a razor blade and place on a slick pad (or parchment). Now you can purge your resin.

Next step ... build a rosin press

A thousand times yes to most of this, of course I would suggest not using parchment or slick pad even in the final purge or at all in a vacuum environment. I don't fuck with polymers under vacuum or at all unless there are absolutely no alternatives (there is glass, it is the alternative)! I've seen so much amazing resin get fucked up and ruined by parchment and silicone mats not behaving properly.

However, that last claim is even more true than the other parts I agree with! There is no sense in running BHO for your own personal needs if you can do rosin. Rosin is easier and safer to make and generally will give you a better product than if you follow my solvent based instructions!

Yeah right on. No more parchment lol it was my first time doing it that way I heard it was an easier way to have all the hash collected after the blast and purge instead of scraping the dish. But you are saying it is cool to vacuum on a slick pad correct? That's is how I am currently doing it. Also i don't want to sound simple but as I told herbivore21 I have secluded myself to bho the past couple years and didn't keep up to date with the new things etc. so can you send me some link on what exactly is rosin and how I would make that type of hash please lol

You are right that a lot of people use parchments etc to avoid the scrape, but man, let me tell you the first time you fuck up and get parchment contamination in your oil and notice it (I use ultra high magnification optics to inspect my materials, so notice shit that would not be seen by the naked eye!), you will understand that scraping a glass dish is far less frustrating!

Rosin is what you may have seen online, where people use heated plates to squish a bud and melt the resin out of it. You can do this with a hair straightener and a vise grip and some parchment (no vacuum required here!). Check out the Rosin thread in the Concentrates section of this site for more info, I think this will give you much better results still than fine tuning bho

 

[MileHighLife]

The shatter consistency will be better achieved using higher boiling solvents (alcohols) and heat only purge IME. Shatter is easily achieved when you use temps that will remove the terpenes from your extract during the purge. I personally view destruction/loss of terpenes as a cardinal sin! As Milehighlife suggests you should really check out rosin since you'll quickly see that BHO just doesn't compare. There is a reason that BHO goes for 20-50 USD a gram when flower rosin can sell at Ca dispensaries for $100 a g!!!

Rosin will give you the best results of the oil extraction techniques, short of full melt hash (which is the holy grail!). Anything solvent-based that is going to give better final product than good flower rosin is generally not safe for personal processing in the home and I would not detail this sort of information here.

Glad to have helped you brother! Hope you get some great results with your next run!


A thousand times yes to most of this, of course I would suggest not using parchment or slick pad even in the final purge or at all in a vacuum environment. I don't fuck with polymers under vacuum or at all unless there are absolutely no alternatives (there is glass, it is the alternative)! I've seen so much amazing resin get fucked up and ruined by parchment and silicone mats not behaving properly.

However, that last claim is even more true than the other parts I agree with! There is no sense in running BHO for your own personal needs if you can do rosin. Rosin is easier and safer to make and generally will give you a better product than if you follow my solvent based instructions!


You are right that a lot of people use parchments etc to avoid the scrape, but man, let me tell you the first time you fuck up and get parchment contamination in your oil and notice it (I use ultra high magnification optics to inspect my materials, so notice shit that would not be seen by the naked eye!), you will understand that scraping a glass dish is far less frustrating!

Rosin is what you may have seen online, where people use heated plates to squish a bud and melt the resin out of it. You can do this with a hair straightener and a vise grip and some parchment (no vacuum required here!). Check out the Rosin thread in the Concentrates section of this site for more info, I think this will give you much better results still than fine tuning bho

For sure. In a perfect world the resin would remain on glass through the purge. The problem I always had was (I believe) with the thermal conductivity of glass. My vacuum chamber uses a heating pad attached to the bottom of the chamber and there was always huge temperature variance between the set temp and the temp in the glass dish ... and the dish would never consistently heat across the entire area. Silicone fixed these issues in my setup but I'm sure different setups worked differently.

 

[herbivore21]

For sure. In a perfect world the resin would remain on glass through the purge. The problem I always had was (I believe) with the thermal conductivity of glass. My vacuum chamber uses a heating pad attached to the bottom of the chamber and there was always huge temperature variance between the set temp and the temp in the glass dish ... and the dish would never consistently heat across the entire area. Silicone fixed these issues in my setup but I'm sure different setups worked differently.

Temp variation in affordable home setups are definitely a relevant factor like you say bro, you gotta pay a lot of money to get glass and a heating system that efficiently and evenly boils your solution (a good mid-level prosumer option is finding a good vacuum oven, even that is quite expensive for many) - especially when a vacuum is being used!

 

[thisperson]

Thanks for the heads up on those vacuum ovens. That's exactly what I need. I ran some two ounces with a buddy, I left it in the sun for a week until it didn't have a sizzle. Even then I think it might have residual stuff. I did a water bath to purge off most of the solvent. It came out extra hard. Shatter like.

What size oven would you recommend to someone who wants to purge an oz of product at a time? That's about what I consume each month and what I'm aiming at producing.

I've never made a run that large. I'm thinking I need a qp of nug. Is that anywhere in the right ballpark. Or maybe a full pound if it were trim.

I love the pics of your qwet. I'm a huge fan!

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks for the heads up on those vacuum ovens. That's exactly what I need. I ran some two ounces with a buddy, I left it in the sun for a week until it didn't have a sizzle. Even then I think it might have residual stuff. I did a water bath to purge off most of the solvent. It came out extra hard. Shatter like.

What size oven would you recommend to someone who wants to purge an oz of product at a time? That's about what I consume each month and what I'm aiming at producing.

I've never made a run that large. I'm thinking I need a qp of nug. Is that anywhere in the right ballpark. Or maybe a full pound if it were trim.

I love the pics of your qwet. I'm a huge fan!

Greetings sir, I appreciate the kind words and am happy to have helped.

Actually most of my pics these days (like my avatar) are full melt bubble hash. I stopped using solvents a long time ago but I cut my teeth with QWET and QWISO (the latter is every bit as good as the former if you dial in your tek!) and you can't unlearn that

When you are looking at vacuum ovens, basically any of them that I've ever seen will be big enough to purge 1-2 zips of flower at a time. You could efficiently purge this amount on a round dish roughly 12 inches in diameter or so (use glass!!! Always use glass! In a vacuum environment you need to use borosilicate that is rated for use in this scenario - I don't know that your run of the mill soda-lime tempered glass is likely to do the job under heat and vacuum and don't recommend you trying it!).

Wait, it dawns on me that your syntax is slightly unclear and you could be saying that you are looking to purge an ounce of shatter at a time! If that is the case, I would suggest at least 6 times the surface area I suggest above. To efficiently boil a given substance, you need to spread it in as thin a film as possible, too thick and the purge will never finish! The size and shape of your purge dishes will determine how much internal shelf space you will need in your vac oven, make sure that the internal shelves are spaced far enough apart vertically to fit your purge vessel/dish of choice.

Remember that the internal volume of your vacuum oven is only a rough measure of how much material you can purge in there, it is really more about the surface area of the shelves and then your chosen vessels/dishes.

I hope this helps man! Hope to hear of you making some fire real soon!

 

[thisperson]

Greetings sir, I appreciate the kind words and am happy to have helped.

Actually most of my pics these days (like my avatar) are full melt bubble hash. I stopped using solvents a long time ago but I cut my teeth with QWET and QWISO (the latter is every bit as good as the former if you dial in your tek!) and you can't unlearn that

When you are looking at vacuum ovens, basically any of them that I've ever seen will be big enough to purge 1-2 zips of flower at a time. You could efficiently purge this amount on a round dish roughly 12 inches in diameter or so (use glass!!! Always use glass! In a vacuum environment you need to use borosilicate that is rated for use in this scenario - I don't know that your run of the mill soda-lime tempered glass is likely to do the job under heat and vacuum and don't recommend you trying it!).

Wait, it dawns on me that your syntax is slightly unclear and you could be saying that you are looking to purge an ounce of shatter at a time! If that is the case, I would suggest at least 6 times the surface area I suggest above. To efficiently boil a given substance, you need to spread it in as thin a film as possible, too thick and the purge will never finish! The size and shape of your purge dishes will determine how much internal shelf space you will need in your vac oven, make sure that the internal shelves are spaced far enough apart vertically to fit your purge vessel/dish of choice.

Remember that the internal volume of your vacuum oven is only a rough measure of how much material you can purge in there, it is really more about the surface area of the shelves and then your chosen vessels/dishes.

I hope this helps man! Hope to hear of you making some fire real soon!

Yeah I did mean a full oz of product. Sorry for not being clear. I guess I need one with multiple shelves (oven). Shame. I'd been seeing one on auction that was I think .9 cu ft but it doesn't have multiple shelves. It's possible to do multiple oven purges. But that just seems wasteful if you're already pulling vac and heating for one pyrex dish.

I went with the pyrex branded glass dishes. Two of them for a water bath after purging. I don't know if that's borosilicate. It's what I read from tutorials to get.

I've been told that platinum cured silicone won't absorb alcohols, but I'm hesitant to get a large platinum cured silicone dish because I don't know how true that is. Now that I have the master before me I figured I'd bring it up in case you are knowledgeable regarding that (platinum cured silicone).

I would love to hear and see pictures of your current runs. You mean full melt bubble hash? From bubble bags? I started off running my own hash. Have gotten light blonde stuff, but I don't think I've ever gotten full melt. I tend to make my run product into a pancake to dry though, maybe that has something to do with it.

I appreciate your time and input.

 

[mrbonsai420]

so i got a vac and chamber (1.5 cfm) got my big pot with water and my small chamber sitting in my big pot....(on a skillet, what temps do you set your skillets too?) I have been busy and have been doing this at a buddy's house just to test I had to leave so couldn't monitor temps and I dont think he did a very good job... I want shatter am i not getting good results because of my temps? (testing with shake also but i assume that has nothing to do with what the product is just what quality it will be right?

Looks like you are going way too hot. I never set my temps on my hot plate over 130 so in my vac chamber it is usually never over 120 degrees. and it's usually more like 110/100 for shatter. Higher if I try to wax or budder or honeycomb something to play around. My vac is a bad ass JB (25 micron) and will pull to almost a complete vacuum so it will still work ok at room temperature as well. So as long as you have a decent vac there is NO NEED to get it too hot while purging, that's what the vacuum does. It allows the butane to evaporate or "boil" at a lower temperature. Your end product should be golden, not dark like that. My avatar is an end product of mine.
Start with Frozen bud, pack the tube WELL and run frozen butane through good bud and you will see the delicious golden goodness bubble out. And you aren't cooking it at all after that, only pulling the tane out with a vacuum and a tiny bit of heat (Barely over room temp!)

And for he record I have found the best results with Whip-it Ultra premium butane for some reason.

I use a high end JB brand vacuum pump on a standard "pot" chamber with this at the heating plate It is MUCH more accurate than whatever you are using by the looks of it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-in-Vacuum...d-Stainless-Steel-Heating-Plate-/122038871853

here's a clip of a little of mine in action on a small nug run of crappy nugs I didn't want to vape. Made awesome shatter though! This is an old clip. I actually just purge right in my pyrex round now (not the silicone mat). It's a pain in the ass to scrape but at least I know it's safe.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BL_gia4hRFS/

 

[Valleydabanomics209]

Just a heads up ... blasting onto parchment is a bad idea. Silicone and butane are not compatible with one another. Blasting into ptfe sheet (like slick sheet) works but it's a bitch to remove your resin from the sheet. IMO the best way to go is blast into a pyrex pie dish then place into another dish with warm water to purge off the majority of the butane. Place the pie dish in your vac chamber and vac purge for half hour or so. Scrape up your resin with a razor blade and place on a slick pad (or parchment). Now you can purge your resin.

Next step ... build a rosin press

Hey partner been working nonstop and will be a master of bho, ISO, and rosin soon! Atleast I like to think so lol anyways I have been purging on Pyrex as suggested and it has been working well! Wanted to ask you how you make your rosin? I'm using hair iron but you mentioned I can build a rosin press.? I've heard of people using shirt presses but am not sure. Also have read about people not having good output with larger quantities in a press but would assume that's due to material...