Making Draw Tubes... Flower Quince?
- Thread starter TommyDee
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- flowering quince
Planck
believes in Dog
If you eat the meat first, prepared rare or tartare for best results and don't get anthrax than the bone is safe. 
Good old Louis Pasteur developed a vaccine in the late 1800's. Livestock in North America are vaccinated so we are extremely unlikely to be infected from domestic livestock.
Speaking of baked potatoes here's Larry Carlton, Terry Trotter, Abraham Laboriel, Alex Acuna. Live at Baked Potato (CA), 1986.
magnificent
Why yes of course Larry worked with Quicie Cones.
Good old Louis Pasteur developed a vaccine in the late 1800's. Livestock in North America are vaccinated so we are extremely unlikely to be infected from domestic livestock. Speaking of baked potatoes here's Larry Carlton, Terry Trotter, Abraham Laboriel, Alex Acuna. Live at Baked Potato (CA), 1986.
magnificent
Why yes of course Larry worked with Quicie Cones.
Mr. Me2
Well-Known Member
I haven’t thought of the Baked Potato in YEARS! And I lived in LA and went there many times in the 80’s. Thanks for the flashback!!!If you eat the meat first, prepared rare or tartare for best results and don't get anthrax than the bone is safe.
Speaking of baked potatoes here's Larry Carlton, Terry Trotter, Abraham Laboriel, Alex Acuna. Live at Baked Potato (CA), 1986.
magnificent
Why yes of course Larry worked with Quicie Cones.
Now how about those quince stems (to stay on track...)
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Hello @Mr. Me2 , welcome to the tread. Flashback is a part of vaping for us old fools. And yes, Texas Jams are something I'd definitely like to remember. I have the ticket stubs so I was there! And not 
Something about vaping brings on reminiscing. However, indeed, yes, stems have moved to their slated others. Now that I am making blanks to see if there is an arthritis bend to the minerals, I will have many 80-90mm blanks to turn in the coming months. Waterworks is the next experiment now that I've configured a means to conveniently use the Orbiter in our lifestyle.
I will be offering up various stems as they become available when fully cured. I am learning the a lot about shrink rates and geometry. But first the Orbiter adapter. That I need now. Got it defined.
And yet another observation. Bark has everything to do with the lack of vitality in the wood. Maybe I should just use the word structure but I don't believe that is right. This is a phenomenon that I need to document. "Why does leaving bark on green wood cause the core to split where removing the bark immediately voids this occurrence." There are some obvious implications that could use critical analysis. Would conventional lumber or specialty woods benefit from such early processing? Are we loosing structural elements to the bark as a course of operation? Nature scales and nature throws in outliers. Which is the story for Flowering Quince?
Stay vaped
Something about vaping brings on reminiscing. However, indeed, yes, stems have moved to their slated others. Now that I am making blanks to see if there is an arthritis bend to the minerals, I will have many 80-90mm blanks to turn in the coming months. Waterworks is the next experiment now that I've configured a means to conveniently use the Orbiter in our lifestyle.
I will be offering up various stems as they become available when fully cured. I am learning the a lot about shrink rates and geometry. But first the Orbiter adapter. That I need now. Got it defined.
And yet another observation. Bark has everything to do with the lack of vitality in the wood. Maybe I should just use the word structure but I don't believe that is right. This is a phenomenon that I need to document. "Why does leaving bark on green wood cause the core to split where removing the bark immediately voids this occurrence." There are some obvious implications that could use critical analysis. Would conventional lumber or specialty woods benefit from such early processing? Are we loosing structural elements to the bark as a course of operation? Nature scales and nature throws in outliers. Which is the story for Flowering Quince?
Stay vaped
TommyDee
Vaporitor
More great stuff. Yesterday someone provided another boot to the head with regard to biology of trees... "The live part of a tree is the bark.". Hmmmm... this has implications up the wazoo.
I now understand the radial tracks that become prominent in a polished section of Flowering Quince. Radial feeders for the bark; du'h. Rather, the pulp layer just beneath the air-exposed matter.
Now I've incorporated the 'life-cycle' of a tree fully into my psyche. Tap root to heart wood to radial feeders to bark. Soils provide minerals and nutrition. Tap roots are water source finders and burrow deeper than other roots.
One implication is that indeed, I am arresting growth fully at the time of harvest when I remove the bark. The "new" process that will commence is what happens when nutrients stop flowing. They have flowed for a lifetime to the bark at varying rates. The entire systems was designed to feed the bark and therefore made efficient y nature. Stopping this flow is a new state. The process can only involve those free elements within the pours and the possible changes it can induce in the surrounding bulk plant matter. Critical in this calculus is the unchanged status of oxygen saturation. Oxygen is typically a major factor in chemical processes. In this case, the bark pulp, typically almost pure white upon exposure, turn a chocolate brown within minutes. rather than hours or days.
My other implications are with conventional lumber and specialized woods. If they too were stripped of the nutrient-robbing bark at harvest, would the wood have even greater vitality? Would the tendency to split and twist be arrested? Would the natural wood grain voids be smaller or even mineral filled? I am also saying that you can cure the wood as normal after this stripping. But you need to take care that the surface remains protected during curing. Best of all worlds would be to strip the bark perfectly to the next bounding layer. Preserving the boundary layer would also increase pest and element tolerance significantly.
I have more but work calls. I'll catch up the medical later.
I now understand the radial tracks that become prominent in a polished section of Flowering Quince. Radial feeders for the bark; du'h. Rather, the pulp layer just beneath the air-exposed matter.
Now I've incorporated the 'life-cycle' of a tree fully into my psyche. Tap root to heart wood to radial feeders to bark. Soils provide minerals and nutrition. Tap roots are water source finders and burrow deeper than other roots.
One implication is that indeed, I am arresting growth fully at the time of harvest when I remove the bark. The "new" process that will commence is what happens when nutrients stop flowing. They have flowed for a lifetime to the bark at varying rates. The entire systems was designed to feed the bark and therefore made efficient y nature. Stopping this flow is a new state. The process can only involve those free elements within the pours and the possible changes it can induce in the surrounding bulk plant matter. Critical in this calculus is the unchanged status of oxygen saturation. Oxygen is typically a major factor in chemical processes. In this case, the bark pulp, typically almost pure white upon exposure, turn a chocolate brown within minutes. rather than hours or days.
My other implications are with conventional lumber and specialized woods. If they too were stripped of the nutrient-robbing bark at harvest, would the wood have even greater vitality? Would the tendency to split and twist be arrested? Would the natural wood grain voids be smaller or even mineral filled? I am also saying that you can cure the wood as normal after this stripping. But you need to take care that the surface remains protected during curing. Best of all worlds would be to strip the bark perfectly to the next bounding layer. Preserving the boundary layer would also increase pest and element tolerance significantly.
I have more but work calls. I'll catch up the medical later.
TheThriftDrifter
Land of the long vapor cloud
Your thoughts on wood are deep Tom. Thanks again.
Planck
believes in Dog
That is not correct. In a healthy tree the entire tree is alive. The heartwood provides support for the structure that is a tree. It is very much alive. The sapwood is the circulatory system providing the leaves with water and trace nutrients, most of the water is transpired through the leaves and in doing so cools and protects the leaves from sun damage. (UV light) Photosynthesis occurs in the leaves and creates the food that the tree lives on. This food is distributed by the sapwood layer.
Photosynthesis (made up from light) is a fascinating process all on it's own. Quantum physics at work here folks.
The bark is the trees skin. It's main function is to keep what is inside in and what is outside out. The outer layers of bark on many species is actually dead. Between the sapwood and bark is the cambium layer.
Copied from the web;
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Tree Parts and How They “Work”
Although there are thousands of different kinds of trees in the world, most trees work the same way. Here's a look at how the parts of a tree work together to help a tree get the food, water, and minerals it needs to survive.
1. The Trunk: The trunk of a tree is important for two reasons: First, it acts as a support rod, giving the tree its shape and strength. Second, it acts as the central "plumbing system" in a tree, forming a network of tubes that carries water and minerals up from the roots to the leaves, and food (sugar) from the leaves down to the branches, trunk, and roots. The easiest way to see how a tree works is to look at a cross section of the trunk. Look at the diagram to see the five main layers and what each layer does.
- a) Bark: The outer layer of the trunk (and branches) is called the outer bark or just the bark. Its texture, thickness, and flexibility depend on the type of tree. Although bark looks different from tree to tree, it serves the same purpose—to protect the tree from injury and disease. Some trees have very thick bark that helps prevent damage from fires. Others have bad-tasting chemicals in their bark that discourage hungry insects. And some bark is covered with spines or thorns that keep browsing mammals away.
- b) Phloem: The layer next to the outer bark is called the inner bark or phloem (FLOW-um). The phloem acts as a food supply line from the leaves to the rest of the tree. Sap (water containing dissolved sugars and nutrients) travels down from the leaves through channels in the phloem to the branches, trunk and roots, supplying all the living parts of the tree with food. If you were to cut a band around the trunk through the bark and phloem, the tree would probably die. That's because the phloem would be severed and food could no longer flow to the lower trunk and roots.
- c) Cambium: Next to the phloem is a very thin layer called the cambium. It is often only one or two cells thick, and you need a microscope to see it well. The cambium is a growth layer of the tree making new cells during the growing season that become part of the phloem, part of the xylem (see below) or more cambium. The cambium is what makes the trunk, branches and roots grow thicker.
- d) Sapwood/Xylem: The layer next to the cambium is called the sapwood or xylem. Each year the cambium adds new layers of woody tissue; the sapwood is made up of the youngest layers of wood. The sapwood is a network of thick-walled cells that forms a pipeline, carrying water and minerals up the tree from the roots to the leaves and other parts of the tree. The sapwood also stores nutrients and transports them across the tree, from one part to another.
- e) Heartwood: Most of the trunk in an old tree is dead wood called heartwood. The heartwood is old xylem that no longer transports water and minerals up the tree. (After a few years the sapwood in most trees gets filled in with resinlike material and slowly changes into heartwood. The new xylem is the only part of the wood that works as a transport system.) The heartwood is often much darker in color than the sapwood. The heartwood gives the tree support, but sometimes it rots away leaving a hollow, living tree.
2. The Roots: A tree's roots are long, underground branches that spread out to help anchor the tree and to absorb water and nutrients from the soil. Some trees have long taproots that reach straight down for 15 feet (4.5 m) or more. Other trees have more shallow root systems that lie closer to the surface of the ground. Large taproots and lateral roots branch into smaller and smaller roots. An average tree has millions of these small rootlets, each covered with thousands of fine root hairs. The root hairs can easily soak up water and dissolved minerals because the rootlets lie very close to the surface where water and nutrients are found.
3. The Leaves: From skinny pine needles to broad palm leaves, all tree leaves serve the same purpose—to make food for the tree. Leaves use carbon dioxide from the air, water from the roots and the sun's energy (in the form of sunlight) to make sugar (glucose). This food-making chemical reaction is called photosynthesis. Photosynthesis can take place only in the presence of chlorophyll—the green pigment that is found in all green plants. During photosynthesis, chlorophyll absorbs sunlight and the leaves release oxygen which becomes part of the air that we and other animals breathe.
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There are a few point in this I would argue are not correct but for the most part that is how trees work. Primarily I disagree that heartwood is dead, that is BS. It is not growing but it is fully saturated with plant juice/food. When the heartwood is dead the tree blows down. Dead hearthwood is dry and sometimes partially decomposed.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Bummer ![:\](/i/s/hmm.gif "Hmm :\")
The image is flawed I think I know how to fix it to some extent. Where I claim "alive" it really should say "new growth" (Cambium). Tap-root 2 heart-wood = obviously dead wrong (poor assumption).
The Cambium layer I can easily discern. It is a very specific layer that almost looks like a golden-brown lichen when it is shaved form the blank. I'm pretty certain I am removing this layer as well when hand peeling the stalk. this is also the layer I think is most tannin-like.
I still want to know why the Phloem layer does so much damage to the core material after the normal life-cycle is disrupted. Do the radial marks also represent nutrition paths just reversed of what I was thinking? Meaning that the nutrition coming back from the leaves now feeds back to the core as it passes through the Phloem layer? Then yes, I can see a 'reversing' of this at the time of harvest.
There is no other explanation I can up with at the moment how blanks are drawing so much nutrition all the way from the core of the blank in such a short time.
I did learn about girding a tree by stripping the bark would or could kill the tree. Funny thing is, most of these stalks have no leaves. They may not actually be growing? They are soaking wet and fresh to within 2 inches of the last trimming some 4 feet from the root. Those live stalks trimmed years ago will have this environmental staining as you see in the image. Remodeling, staining, leaching are all evident in the end of the stalk. So one also has to wonder if the leaves from other stalks could be feeding these leafless stalks. What would reverse the nutrition cycle to make sure this otherwise lifeless stalk would receive food energy. Simply capillary action from the root-ball? Is the the plant's duty to maintain an average moisture content throughout?
So, in general we are dealing with this; Food in the form of carbon is sent through the Phloem layer 'downward'; and water and minerals are streaming upward through the Xylem (sapwood). In between these two networks is the Cambium layer which will become Xylem through seasonal cycles. If the carbon was no longer being supplied there is no reason to believe that the water and nutrition wasn't still flowing through the Xylem and leaching into the Phloem simply to keep it healthy for when new growth does occur and eventually provide leaves for the full cycle to resume. Therefore, I should be able to surmise that this bush has a mechanism to keep stalks alive when leaves are not present for bulk carbon conversion. Considering this shrub is designed to be trimmed to the ground every 3-4 years, growth and preservation is required with a photosynthesis response. New grown is a branch that can start anywhere along any remaining stalk. It takes a year to have a full shrub again. Normally these 4' stalks are a mere few inches above the ground.
Then again, I've had full fledged trees shoot up from a large cut trunk. This tells me there is a hierarchy to growth medium. Is it possible that the nutrition and water rising through the Xylem as far as it can go and have a return path through the Phloem when the species is truncated? Essentially making the carbon capture part of the food cycle only necessary for bulk growth. Or rather than look at these as end-termination, it is much more likely that this cycle happens at all elevations. Food source is flowing everywhere between these two mediums and that the leaves, providing photosynthesis resulting in carbon as a food source, will be distributed via the trunk as a reservoir receiving all the carbon before it is distributed throughout the species. Knowing if this transfer between layers is one way or bi-directional, my gut tells me that these specialized capillaries work in one direction while the species is alive. However, it is clear to me that leaving the Phloem layer on reduces the mass of the Xylem in short order where the lack of a Phloem layer reducing this mass loss significantly leaving only evaporation loss.
Man, never let a mechanical guy explain biology.
I don't think I am far off with the mechanism I am observing. Basically, the Phloem layer is still quite active in drawing nutrition from the Xylum layer as it does naturally. Whatever process is drawing the nutrition from the Xylum is arrested by removing the Phloem. That is a finding that has become clear through observation.
This piece has a month's seasoning. The shiny bit is what I strip the blank down too by hand. Could that be the Cambium layer (center of the image)? It is unique and very hard. Also has a waxy texture to it. That would make the soft matter peeling away Phloem. The Phloem layer is thick, particularly in ancient pieces. The actual bark is very thin backed with green, and a green smelling, membrane. ..."...could the stem of a plant mimic the leaf in Chlorophyll generation and thereby provide carbon through the stalks themselves?"...
And I do need to clarify a meaning because the syntax is completely wrong on the radial grain I see. It is a particular cell structure within the Xylum that allows for nutrient transport. I should look at them as interstitial radial layers along the grain. These are part of the nutrient transport mechanism.
Last interesting note;
Noting that Heartwood is hard is not quite the same in this instance. The center as shown in the upper picture would be fairly soft at harvest, very much like the outer Phloem. And like the Phloem, it darkens and hardens significantly as it takes on oxygen and/or age. I often don't see it until it reveals itself.
And once again @Planck .... - seriously - thank you
@TheThriftDrifter - tracking says your country now has the parcel is moving it forward!
..and my pen blanks came in
The image is flawed I think I know how to fix it to some extent. Where I claim "alive" it really should say "new growth" (Cambium). Tap-root 2 heart-wood = obviously dead wrong (poor assumption).The Cambium layer I can easily discern. It is a very specific layer that almost looks like a golden-brown lichen when it is shaved form the blank. I'm pretty certain I am removing this layer as well when hand peeling the stalk. this is also the layer I think is most tannin-like.
I still want to know why the Phloem layer does so much damage to the core material after the normal life-cycle is disrupted. Do the radial marks also represent nutrition paths just reversed of what I was thinking? Meaning that the nutrition coming back from the leaves now feeds back to the core as it passes through the Phloem layer? Then yes, I can see a 'reversing' of this at the time of harvest.
There is no other explanation I can up with at the moment how blanks are drawing so much nutrition all the way from the core of the blank in such a short time.
I did learn about girding a tree by stripping the bark would or could kill the tree. Funny thing is, most of these stalks have no leaves. They may not actually be growing? They are soaking wet and fresh to within 2 inches of the last trimming some 4 feet from the root. Those live stalks trimmed years ago will have this environmental staining as you see in the image. Remodeling, staining, leaching are all evident in the end of the stalk. So one also has to wonder if the leaves from other stalks could be feeding these leafless stalks. What would reverse the nutrition cycle to make sure this otherwise lifeless stalk would receive food energy. Simply capillary action from the root-ball? Is the the plant's duty to maintain an average moisture content throughout?
So, in general we are dealing with this; Food in the form of carbon is sent through the Phloem layer 'downward'; and water and minerals are streaming upward through the Xylem (sapwood). In between these two networks is the Cambium layer which will become Xylem through seasonal cycles. If the carbon was no longer being supplied there is no reason to believe that the water and nutrition wasn't still flowing through the Xylem and leaching into the Phloem simply to keep it healthy for when new growth does occur and eventually provide leaves for the full cycle to resume. Therefore, I should be able to surmise that this bush has a mechanism to keep stalks alive when leaves are not present for bulk carbon conversion. Considering this shrub is designed to be trimmed to the ground every 3-4 years, growth and preservation is required with a photosynthesis response. New grown is a branch that can start anywhere along any remaining stalk. It takes a year to have a full shrub again. Normally these 4' stalks are a mere few inches above the ground.
Then again, I've had full fledged trees shoot up from a large cut trunk. This tells me there is a hierarchy to growth medium. Is it possible that the nutrition and water rising through the Xylem as far as it can go and have a return path through the Phloem when the species is truncated? Essentially making the carbon capture part of the food cycle only necessary for bulk growth. Or rather than look at these as end-termination, it is much more likely that this cycle happens at all elevations. Food source is flowing everywhere between these two mediums and that the leaves, providing photosynthesis resulting in carbon as a food source, will be distributed via the trunk as a reservoir receiving all the carbon before it is distributed throughout the species. Knowing if this transfer between layers is one way or bi-directional, my gut tells me that these specialized capillaries work in one direction while the species is alive. However, it is clear to me that leaving the Phloem layer on reduces the mass of the Xylem in short order where the lack of a Phloem layer reducing this mass loss significantly leaving only evaporation loss.
Man, never let a mechanical guy explain biology.
I don't think I am far off with the mechanism I am observing. Basically, the Phloem layer is still quite active in drawing nutrition from the Xylum layer as it does naturally. Whatever process is drawing the nutrition from the Xylum is arrested by removing the Phloem. That is a finding that has become clear through observation.This piece has a month's seasoning. The shiny bit is what I strip the blank down too by hand. Could that be the Cambium layer (center of the image)? It is unique and very hard. Also has a waxy texture to it. That would make the soft matter peeling away Phloem. The Phloem layer is thick, particularly in ancient pieces. The actual bark is very thin backed with green, and a green smelling, membrane. ..."...could the stem of a plant mimic the leaf in Chlorophyll generation and thereby provide carbon through the stalks themselves?"...
And I do need to clarify a meaning because the syntax is completely wrong on the radial grain I see. It is a particular cell structure within the Xylum that allows for nutrient transport. I should look at them as interstitial radial layers along the grain. These are part of the nutrient transport mechanism.
Last interesting note;
Noting that Heartwood is hard is not quite the same in this instance. The center as shown in the upper picture would be fairly soft at harvest, very much like the outer Phloem. And like the Phloem, it darkens and hardens significantly as it takes on oxygen and/or age. I often don't see it until it reveals itself.
And once again @Planck .... - seriously - thank you
@TheThriftDrifter - tracking says your country now has the parcel is moving it forward!
..and my pen blanks came in
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Me'h missed the window for edit...
This is a section polished up a bit to show the full section. I peeled that bark and Phloem layer away and it turns out the Cambium layer is a chalky layer that is also removed. This layer almost glows and is maybe 1/4mm thick. The image does not show the dramatic demarcation I see in the right light. This is indeed the stuff that gets hard and glues the bark to the core [sapwood]. When green, it has mild adhesion. Therefore I now know I am curing this material stripped to the sapwood, or Xylem.
This is a section polished up a bit to show the full section. I peeled that bark and Phloem layer away and it turns out the Cambium layer is a chalky layer that is also removed. This layer almost glows and is maybe 1/4mm thick. The image does not show the dramatic demarcation I see in the right light. This is indeed the stuff that gets hard and glues the bark to the core [sapwood]. When green, it has mild adhesion. Therefore I now know I am curing this material stripped to the sapwood, or Xylem.
Planck
believes in Dog
Perhaps though I suspect that is the phloem layer. Remember the cambium layer is very thin maybe only one or two cells thick. These cells are called undifferentiated cells, they can become sapwood/xylem, inner bark/phloem or cambium. It is located between (next to) the xylem and phloem. Amazing ya, a tree grows from the inside out and the outside in.
Sorry I don't know what you mean by so much damage.
If they are still wet and sound they are probably still alive. Different trees use different survival strategies, Some will cut the food supply to branches that are shaded and thus not producing well, Others feed stalks and can form buds and new growth on them. The cells that photosynthesis are called chloroplasts, they are most plentiful in leaves, however a green colored stalk likely contains some chloroplasts too so the stalk may self feed. I do not know.
This is more my understanding of how trees function. Sapwood does transport material to the leaves but it also stores and distributes nutrients to various parts of the plant as needed. Nitpick alert, the food is not carbon it's a carbon compound in this case a sugar.
I don't know but I will ask someone I expect may.
Running out of steam and stems need testing!
TommyDee
Vaporitor
What's your guess? Does FQ float?
I seem to have lost a reply to your observations @Planck
I know I answered the damage thing so I'll do that again...
The damage is the splitting of the sapwood if I leave the bark on. If I strip the bark and Phloem at the time of harvest, I get no splitting. If I give it to my wife to hold in her hands for arthritis relief, it also cracks. This is becoming a very repeatable event.
I am getting a pretty good idea of transport of nutrition throughout a plant.
Also learned I don't want to make a water piece with a glass receiver. Almost lost the Orbiter. I had a perfect fitting taper. I put water in the Orbiter and within seconds it was stuck! No way to remove. The stem just sealed itself in the receiver. Ended up drilling it out.
Don;t do that with thirsty wood, period, full stop! Orbiter is fine but a bit shaken.
I seem to have lost a reply to your observations @Planck
I know I answered the damage thing so I'll do that again...
The damage is the splitting of the sapwood if I leave the bark on. If I strip the bark and Phloem at the time of harvest, I get no splitting. If I give it to my wife to hold in her hands for arthritis relief, it also cracks. This is becoming a very repeatable event.
I am getting a pretty good idea of transport of nutrition throughout a plant.
Also learned I don't want to make a water piece with a glass receiver. Almost lost the Orbiter. I had a perfect fitting taper. I put water in the Orbiter and within seconds it was stuck! No way to remove. The stem just sealed itself in the receiver. Ended up drilling it out.
Don;t do that with thirsty wood, period, full stop! Orbiter is fine but a bit shaken.
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TheThriftDrifter
Land of the long vapor cloud
Must have been a tense moment drilling out that wood.
Planck
believes in Dog
Absolutely, yes it floats.
That's interesting. I'd expect the opposite actually.
As promised I asked a plant science MS if the flow is bidirectional. The answer was Bla bla things we have already discussed concluding with "I believe so". I'd have preferred a definite answer but that's what I got.
Again interesting that the quince responded so fast. I'd expect several minutes would be required to get that tight. Glad the orbiter was OK.
Testing proceeds with no problems.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
I'll stick with the view I have on the circulatory system of a plant. I appreciate your query to a knowledgeable professional. It is making sense with enough anecdotal evidence to provide the warm fuzzy I need to move forward. Nature is king when it comes to keeping things simple at its core level. I consider the sapwood's no.1 priority to take in and express sap. Sapwood will do that until its last gasp. If you remove the medium to express into, the process is arrested and the sap remains in place. All it can do now is evaporate the remaining volatile elements that are not trapped or require elevated temperatures.
@Planck - Throw one of those scrap bits into a glass of water. I put a piece in water that my wife had held for some hours and it barely floated and sank within 30 minutes. Then I took a finished piece and it sank dead to the bottom. So I threw in a piece with bark and thought surely it floats... yep, overnight, but this morning, also in the bottom of the glass. I thought the same; of course it will float. But alas, no, this stuff sinks to the bottom in short order.
This splitting thing is more than wishful thinking. I've processed going on 10 yards of this material. This is an observation. And furthermore, it makes sense. I have an uncompressible cylinder on the periphery of the sapwood and a suction pump ripping the remaining food source from the sapwood, the bulk of which is removed in a matter of hours. This is only true on the ends. I have not cut into an existing split as yet. All pieces with removed bark are still intact. Obviously I can do a more controlled experiment but for now, I am making the claim that removal of the bark after harvest will improve vitality of the base material.
Now the experiment that will be worthy is to find out if seasoning, with bark, to a point of having the wood 'dry' (a state of the material harvested for about 2 months at the time of debarking.). That piece I need to turn and see if it still sinks in water. I suspect at that time the piece will begin to float as the minerals weighing things down have leached out. That in itself could make for a great viability test.
@Planck - Throw one of those scrap bits into a glass of water. I put a piece in water that my wife had held for some hours and it barely floated and sank within 30 minutes. Then I took a finished piece and it sank dead to the bottom. So I threw in a piece with bark and thought surely it floats... yep, overnight, but this morning, also in the bottom of the glass. I thought the same; of course it will float. But alas, no, this stuff sinks to the bottom in short order.
This splitting thing is more than wishful thinking. I've processed going on 10 yards of this material. This is an observation. And furthermore, it makes sense. I have an uncompressible cylinder on the periphery of the sapwood and a suction pump ripping the remaining food source from the sapwood, the bulk of which is removed in a matter of hours. This is only true on the ends. I have not cut into an existing split as yet. All pieces with removed bark are still intact. Obviously I can do a more controlled experiment but for now, I am making the claim that removal of the bark after harvest will improve vitality of the base material.
Now the experiment that will be worthy is to find out if seasoning, with bark, to a point of having the wood 'dry' (a state of the material harvested for about 2 months at the time of debarking.). That piece I need to turn and see if it still sinks in water. I suspect at that time the piece will begin to float as the minerals weighing things down have leached out. That in itself could make for a great viability test.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
This is just plain cool. Nope, it doesn't float. I added a 'dry' piece. The phluem layer is dry and hard and well attached to the sapwood but crumbly. Took tens of minutes but it too sank.
A piece that was heavily remodeled from exposure is still floating. This piece was walnut-like except that it cut as dark brown dust. This piece also has no vitality. Pretty though.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
I may have found a real difference between FQ and what is considered 'wood'. I decided to throw a couple of pieces, including some of the linseed'd stems, into a vase of water. This stuff stays thirsty! Within 12 hours, these pieces were saturated. I have a new set in a soak that had no treatment. I had a hint that it released a starch but that could have been the linseed oil. Therefore I am repeating the test. It took a couple of days for that to turn the water.
One of the pieces I soaked was a shrunk stem onto metal. What do you know; I can reverse the death-grip Sure enough, not only does a good soak let you release the hold, it appears as though it will just as easily shrink back onto the same core tube. This is cool! Shrink fits are rarely reversible 
Once removed from the soak, the part is still viable and coherent. You can handle it while wet without too much worry. Don't pick at it obviously but the fibers are still well attached. When rolled in your hands, it will dry significantly in short order. Within an hour it will be ready for a light 800 grit sanding [dry to the touch] to knock off any remaining high spots for an even nicer finish.
Of course I didn't stop there. I still have that food coloring. You know where that's going
Yep, I tried an orange die on an old stem and it took some of the... huh? red? Oh well, yes, I have a redish hue stem. Okay so I picked a color almost exactly what wet FQ looks like. Working on blue now. The surface isn't taking any stain but natures capillaries are taking in color and putting their own spin on it. I might actually be able to pre-treat this material before ever boring the core. 
Okay - and on the arthritis front - still hopeful. Tomorrow my wife will reach 2 weeks, and a second data-point will be at 1 week tomorrow. There is something to this process.
Within 12 hours, these pieces were saturated. I have a new set in a soak that had no treatment. I had a hint that it released a starch but that could have been the linseed oil. Therefore I am repeating the test. It took a couple of days for that to turn the water.One of the pieces I soaked was a shrunk stem onto metal. What do you know; I can reverse the death-grip
Sure enough, not only does a good soak let you release the hold, it appears as though it will just as easily shrink back onto the same core tube. This is cool! Shrink fits are rarely reversible Once removed from the soak, the part is still viable and coherent. You can handle it while wet without too much worry. Don't pick at it obviously but the fibers are still well attached. When rolled in your hands, it will dry significantly in short order. Within an hour it will be ready for a light 800 grit sanding [dry to the touch] to knock off any remaining high spots for an even nicer finish.
Of course I didn't stop there. I still have that food coloring. You know where that's going
Yep, I tried an orange die on an old stem and it took some of the... huh? red? Oh well, yes, I have a redish hue stem. Okay so I picked a color almost exactly what wet FQ looks like. Working on blue now. The surface isn't taking any stain but natures capillaries are taking in color and putting their own spin on it. I might actually be able to pre-treat this material before ever boring the core. Okay - and on the arthritis front - still hopeful. Tomorrow my wife will reach 2 weeks, and a second data-point will be at 1 week tomorrow. There is something to this process.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Looks like we're back in the tie-die-days. Yep, food coloring works added to plain water during a 2-day soak. Not sure what to think of it yet. Went for blue so I could actually see it. Not sure how much the linseed oil got in the way. I suspect some patterns will emerge. Definitely got a darkening with the orange coloring. Where the ends of the grain get wet you get a highlighter effect of the die color. I'll get some pix up when I get more datapoints.
Definitely a starch in the native species. These are those 'sugers' flowing throughout the plant. A means to remove them as a process step could be interesting for the wood. Also considered 'extraction' of these starches. Not sure there is anything worthwhile in them. That should make up the new growth bio-matter. Of course, if I soak the blanks for 2-3 days to leach out these starches, it shall recover to a smaller size. That I did note in the orange-die stem when it dried. Remarkable shape memory however!
A quick twist of the VC ream-tool and all was well. The thin skirt of the torpedo stem was still strong to take a reaming with the drill-bit too. As a matter of fact, shrink-refits are possible as stated before. Therefore soaking for a couple of days does not affect the adhesion between fibers. At least not to a sufficient degrees to notice on a small sample.
I'm looking forward to turning some pieces after a soak. This will have implications for stress-relieving the raw material as well. I also noted drying time is very fast while handling the piece after the soak. It is remarkably coherent for as wet as it gets.
Definitely a starch in the native species. These are those 'sugers' flowing throughout the plant. A means to remove them as a process step could be interesting for the wood. Also considered 'extraction' of these starches. Not sure there is anything worthwhile in them. That should make up the new growth bio-matter. Of course, if I soak the blanks for 2-3 days to leach out these starches, it shall recover to a smaller size. That I did note in the orange-die stem when it dried. Remarkable shape memory however!
A quick twist of the VC ream-tool and all was well. The thin skirt of the torpedo stem was still strong to take a reaming with the drill-bit too. As a matter of fact, shrink-refits are possible as stated before. Therefore soaking for a couple of days does not affect the adhesion between fibers. At least not to a sufficient degrees to notice on a small sample.I'm looking forward to turning some pieces after a soak. This will have implications for stress-relieving the raw material as well. I also noted drying time is very fast while handling the piece after the soak. It is remarkably coherent for as wet as it gets.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
And an update on the dye process. This process necessitates the starch leaching as well so this is interesting. The top stem is for comparison. The middle stem was soaked for 3 days in bright orange. The color it took on most was red as seen when saturated. This washes out when dry. There is still a lot of hints of the red in the end-grains throughout though.
The bottom stem was dyed with 4 drops of blue food coloring in a slender container.
I am going for a purple on the Tesla Truck stem above. For some reason the VC port is oversized after curing so this will be a great test on shrinkage after starch leaching.
The bottom stem was dyed with 4 drops of blue food coloring in a slender container.
I am going for a purple on the Tesla Truck stem above. For some reason the VC port is oversized after curing so this will be a great test on shrinkage after starch leaching.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Well will you look at that! We have coloring perfection ...while remaining absolutely natural
These are some odd pieces but they are continuing to prove my point; this is no ordinary material by far! Maybe every species like this is similar, but no one has exploited them to this extent that I am aware of. I could be wrong about that. Most likely I am. But sitting in a haze of Flowering Quince vape from baking these fine pieces I am seeing some of the most sought after aging and coloring effects I could have ever hoped for. And of all things, by means of heat penetration. A nice roast at 460F for 10, 15, 15, 20 minute respectively [far left is the reference sample] in the oven w/ foil just made these pieces stunning
Introductions;
Far left; newly turned unfinished medium stem
Second from left; soaked; unshrunk; reshrunk; and baked for 10 minutes at 460F. Light 800 grit buffing and a resize of the VC port. Did not split on the resize or the reshrink or the bake-out. Rustic 'distressed' look.
Third from the left; soaked in blue food coloring and baked for 15 minutes at 460F. Light 800 grit buffing. Resizing split the VC port from shrinkage and my poor operation of the tools. Sacrificed
Forth w/ VC; Also 15 minutes. Just cleaned the Shillac with alcohol and it probably had linseed oil. 15 minute bake and the VC port was salvaged nicely. No soak on this one. Killer piece
The far right; This piece is beautiful! Almost a like a piece of inedible chocolate. This requires oversized parts but it is stunning. There is not enough wall left to make the VC port the right size again. This was the soaked orange food coloring stem.
I can't wait to trade in my daily driver for one of these!
This is the finishing touch on what I want to do with the pen blanks with regard to finish. I am noting that 'hardening' a stem like this is quite in line with how Bamboo is treated. There are a lot of similarities when you look at how this stuff deals with water. Very much looking forward to sacrificing a few untreated stems to these tortures.
And now I know what flowering Quince really smells like. My wife says it smells like sugar. It smelled like vaped wood to me
Well guys...
What's next
..oh yea; query
What if I stained the fresh stems by soaking them for two days in a nice dark wine? Then bake these out at 460F after a few days of curing? Would you vape from that?
We have coloring perfection ...while remaining absolutely natural
These are some odd pieces but they are continuing to prove my point; this is no ordinary material by far! Maybe every species like this is similar, but no one has exploited them to this extent that I am aware of. I could be wrong about that. Most likely I am. But sitting in a haze of Flowering Quince vape from baking these fine pieces I am seeing some of the most sought after aging and coloring effects I could have ever hoped for. And of all things, by means of heat penetration. A nice roast at 460F for 10, 15, 15, 20 minute respectively [far left is the reference sample] in the oven w/ foil just made these pieces stunning
Introductions;
Far left; newly turned unfinished medium stem
Second from left; soaked; unshrunk; reshrunk; and baked for 10 minutes at 460F. Light 800 grit buffing and a resize of the VC port. Did not split on the resize or the reshrink or the bake-out. Rustic 'distressed' look.
Third from the left; soaked in blue food coloring and baked for 15 minutes at 460F. Light 800 grit buffing. Resizing split the VC port from shrinkage and my poor operation of the tools. Sacrificed
Forth w/ VC; Also 15 minutes. Just cleaned the Shillac with alcohol and it probably had linseed oil. 15 minute bake and the VC port was salvaged nicely. No soak on this one. Killer piece
The far right; This piece is beautiful! Almost a like a piece of inedible chocolate. This requires oversized parts but it is stunning. There is not enough wall left to make the VC port the right size again. This was the soaked orange food coloring stem.
I can't wait to trade in my daily driver for one of these!
This is the finishing touch on what I want to do with the pen blanks with regard to finish. I am noting that 'hardening' a stem like this is quite in line with how Bamboo is treated. There are a lot of similarities when you look at how this stuff deals with water. Very much looking forward to sacrificing a few untreated stems to these tortures.
And now I know what flowering Quince really smells like. My wife says it smells like sugar. It smelled like vaped wood to me
Well guys...
What's next ..oh yea; query
What if I stained the fresh stems by soaking them for two days in a nice dark wine? Then bake these out at 460F after a few days of curing? Would you vape from that?
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Diggy Smalls
Notorious
I've been using one stem daily and it has developed a dark ring where the stem ends on the VC port end. Charred not from direct contact with flame, but from my aggressive heating style with the VC. I heat pretty low down on the stem with a quad torch. I suppose the slight charring could be from ambient temperatures from the flame. It's not a deep char, but rather a surface level one that has slowly developed over the time I have used it.
Those darker treated stems look awesome.
Those darker treated stems look awesome.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Looks like the people in China have trouble measuring things. I received the second order of my "7MM" B-glass tubes and they are still 8mm on the OD. So much for that thought.
Quince update; My wife swears by the healing capacity of Flowering Quince after a two week session. My beta subject isn't quite as enthused but didn't rule out 'happenings'.
The pen was well received. Now to work on a completely different style. I have a pen-set that is pink. I figured I would go for the walnut simulation on this one. It's the only thing I can think of to do that will actually go together.
I have not turned to many pieces since the soak and bake operations. I did have a very interesting time with the 'Tesla stem'. I colored it by soaking. It grew by almost 20% in water! The VC port was huge!
Over time it came back to size but not completely. The VC port was now on the rather large side (read: to fucking big). So I baked it at 20 minutes to repeat the previous test. Yep, it shrunk enough! It does have that wood-burning scent though. Not sure how deep the scent goes but I did turn down the dark test piece in the image above. I'd have never guessed. The color is nearly consistent throughout!
As to where I want to take this. Seriously, I love these stems. I find the texture of this material on the lips to be unique and satisfying. I find the natural surface so be 'different' than one would expect. I also find that this material does well with heat at the level required at the VC port. And I learned this material doesn't split when shrinking. This material exceeds expectation when it comes to girding a piece. That is where this will shine most for me. I look forward to making a shrink-fit mouthpiece for the TinyMight.
We did learn that one can scorch a wooden stem with torches. Chalk that up to character. And maybe a bit of buffing to take the soot off. We also learned Linseed oil really does stink as @Planck suggested. That put a whole bunch of stems in the bin for testing purposes only. However, this exercise did introduce me to Shellac. A perfect neutral coating with its only downside being rubbing alcohol. And we learned that bark left on blanks for turning causes damage to the sapwood. We also learned to saw the harvest and not use the hedge clippers. The compression causes splits in the wood, obviously. That was more of a D'uh.
And I have not reached my original quest - why shouldn't I use this material for stems? This material requires a different mindset for fabrication from the moment you harvest it. Every pace I've put this material through, it has replied with a 'take this' attitude. And I mean ATTITUDE in all caps! For impatient people like me, you couldn't think of a more rapid preparation timetable for anything natural. Within the week I can turn a stable stem and within the next week, it is ready to ship. With risk - of course. It is always possible that the VC port will either shrink or grow depending on the local geometry, humidity, and heat-loading with use. I've been working this material going on 6 months now. I am very glad I put a piece on the lathe to see what it would do.
I am still using the original long slender stem as a daily driver with the short hiatus with the glass stem. The all-wooden stem still has a distinctive curve to it and it still fits the '18-M with conviction. Cleaned out a good size drop of honey yesterday which presented a nice golden brown this time. I find these stems collect a lot less of my valued vape.
I don't know that this thread will take on much more with regard to updates. I will be trying some other shrub type materials to see if there is a commonality in some of these characteristics.
I have to give special thanks to @Planck and @TheThriftDrifter for their encouragement and insights. And @Diggy Smalls for testing the US postal service for its absolute compliance. Of course I thank everyone else that has participated and those that have taken the time to read through parts of this epic journal.
Quince update; My wife swears by the healing capacity of Flowering Quince after a two week session. My beta subject isn't quite as enthused but didn't rule out 'happenings'.
The pen was well received. Now to work on a completely different style. I have a pen-set that is pink. I figured I would go for the walnut simulation on this one. It's the only thing I can think of to do that will actually go together.
I have not turned to many pieces since the soak and bake operations. I did have a very interesting time with the 'Tesla stem'. I colored it by soaking. It grew by almost 20% in water! The VC port was huge!
Over time it came back to size but not completely. The VC port was now on the rather large side (read: to fucking big). So I baked it at 20 minutes to repeat the previous test. Yep, it shrunk enough! It does have that wood-burning scent though. Not sure how deep the scent goes but I did turn down the dark test piece in the image above. I'd have never guessed. The color is nearly consistent throughout!
As to where I want to take this. Seriously, I love these stems. I find the texture of this material on the lips to be unique and satisfying. I find the natural surface so be 'different' than one would expect. I also find that this material does well with heat at the level required at the VC port. And I learned this material doesn't split when shrinking. This material exceeds expectation when it comes to girding a piece. That is where this will shine most for me. I look forward to making a shrink-fit mouthpiece for the TinyMight.
We did learn that one can scorch a wooden stem with torches. Chalk that up to character. And maybe a bit of buffing to take the soot off. We also learned Linseed oil really does stink as @Planck suggested. That put a whole bunch of stems in the bin for testing purposes only. However, this exercise did introduce me to Shellac. A perfect neutral coating with its only downside being rubbing alcohol. And we learned that bark left on blanks for turning causes damage to the sapwood. We also learned to saw the harvest and not use the hedge clippers. The compression causes splits in the wood, obviously. That was more of a D'uh.
And I have not reached my original quest - why shouldn't I use this material for stems? This material requires a different mindset for fabrication from the moment you harvest it. Every pace I've put this material through, it has replied with a 'take this' attitude. And I mean ATTITUDE in all caps! For impatient people like me, you couldn't think of a more rapid preparation timetable for anything natural. Within the week I can turn a stable stem and within the next week, it is ready to ship. With risk - of course. It is always possible that the VC port will either shrink or grow depending on the local geometry, humidity, and heat-loading with use. I've been working this material going on 6 months now. I am very glad I put a piece on the lathe to see what it would do.
I am still using the original long slender stem as a daily driver with the short hiatus with the glass stem. The all-wooden stem still has a distinctive curve to it and it still fits the '18-M with conviction. Cleaned out a good size drop of honey yesterday which presented a nice golden brown this time. I find these stems collect a lot less of my valued vape.
I don't know that this thread will take on much more with regard to updates. I will be trying some other shrub type materials to see if there is a commonality in some of these characteristics.
I have to give special thanks to @Planck and @TheThriftDrifter for their encouragement and insights. And @Diggy Smalls for testing the US postal service for its absolute compliance. Of course I thank everyone else that has participated and those that have taken the time to read through parts of this epic journal.