Making Draw Tubes... Flower Quince?

Planck

believes in Dog
Do you think maple will void splitting with the VC's heat?
I'd speculate that soft/big leaf/western maple would stand a better chance of long tern survival then cherry or hard maple or walnut. Proof is in the pudding though.

It's worth remembering that all woods are much much stronger in compression then tension. The challenge is how to add a tension ring that is a visually pleasing. Doing the finished bore for the tip when the blank is very dry will help prevent splitting too. Within limits that will mitigate having the wood shrink around the tip creating a tension failure.

Sad truth is that wood not an ideal in this application. Stabilized wood bring some advantages I'd expect but it's "woodness" is mostly lost.

ETA: Kiln drying leaves wood more prone to splitting. AKA weaker in tension.
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
I'm starting to see why I love this Flowering Quince stuff LOL I'll definitely check out this Appalachian Cherry for a stem. One reservation on soft Maple is that it dents easily. I do have a couple of Maple trees (unknown species), a Sycamore tree, Dutch Elms, a PNW Apple tree and a Cherry tree. And I have access to occasional Plum trimmings.

I do have access to PNW coast Manzanita shrubs though. I turned a piece of this and it is cool as hell. Same tight grain and same type of inner bark layer as FQ. The wood comes off a vivid lemon yellow hue. This will be a fun shrub to make a stem from.

Maybe these old men from the forest are simply being overlooked as a species for niche applications. They are old, and this seems to make these shrubs very dense. When working with thin-walled structures, this can only be an advantage. I see nothing different in the life-cycle of a shrub over a proper tree. The tree grows fast with larger features that tend to hinder thin-wall structures. Maybe for longevity, a tight grain is a requirement.

And I've seen shrubs not worth crap so I'm not saying all shrubs are good wood. But I am saying that I have a better eye for this now. If the Manzanita works out as a strong contender, I might have to look into this aging hypothesis further.
 

Planck

believes in Dog
It's unproven but I think you want non allergenic woods that are strong in tension. Since wood is weak in tension we typically design around that weakness. I can't think of anything else that uses wood like a stem except another stem. Radical steam bending for example uses a steel strap to force most of the stress into compression. Since the steel strap fixes the length of the blank the inside of the curve (the short side) is forced to compress.

Sadly, there is no engineering data on woods that are not used commercially.
I'd love to see what quince looks like under a microscope. Are the fibers somehow interlocked? I don't see hardness/density as a desirable property for this application. Try to drive a nail into dry maple and dry spruce, the maple fails in tension the spruce does not. In essence the DV tip is a nail. Soft o-rings (silicon?) probably would help too.

The most unique property I see with quince is how quickly it absorbs water. It's crazy fast, is that what keeps it from splitting? It re-hydrates so quickly the it doesn't really ever shrink much and as a result never sees high tension loading from shrinking around the tip.

Fascinating stuff to speculate about, what I can say for certain, I absolutely LOVE your quince stems! :nod:
 
Planck,

TommyDee

Vaporitor
@Planck - I really do appreciate all your insights into things 'wood'. The woody material is very fine fiber. I can turn the top layer and it comes of as a mat while chips are flying out from in between, so to speak. It also doesn't stick to everything. The dust is not statically charged like the Rosewood was. 3 stems of Rosewood is more dust in my office than a year of turning quince. That is a very interesting finding as it may have further implications.

The Madrone/Manzanita wood is a really good lead from @danielj . When I turned it, it was very much like the quince. That is readily available with a quick 60 mile drive to the coast.

There is a connective tissue between fibers. I think a nail in a fully hardened and dried piece of quince would just split completely. I can only drive the drill in the core about 1/2-3/4" before it stops dead in its tracks and needs clearing. The quince is harder than a stabilized resin cast by a lot. We're talking rock candy for lack of a better measure. And that analogy is not far off - it smells like a cake when baked.

Fortunately, the receivers only have to deal with the compression of the o-ring. The o-rings are Viton and pretty hard. By design, there is only .002"-.003" clearance to the final flange on the VC. I run the bore up to 8mm, adding another -.002". Rolled o-rings are stem-killers. That is more than enough force to split the hardiest of stems. But a proper o-ring fit will put significant force on the wood. Yet, to day, the only split I've seen was caused by me. Once the stem is stable, the port doesn't change much at all. You would think moisture would swell the thing but there is something regulating that. With water present, it will swell to 115% original size. But it won't just draw that out of the air like a wick. It is an amazing material in this regard.

I find this material more fascinating every day particularly now that I am looking for a more available alternative. I've got years more of exploring to do with the current stock. @danielj - where did you find allergy data on Madrone? I really think this is a viable alternative to Quince. I need to test its connective prowess. I have a pen commission to finish so that should help test that shrinkage-girding trick.
 
TommyDee,
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TommyDee

Vaporitor
Would you look at what fell of the lathe today...

20200913_152106.jpg

This is the Appalachian Cherry. Learned I need to trim the end so I don't get the aging from the air drying at the tip. Live and learn. came out nice though at 4" long. This stuff works very nicely. Interesting "sweet Shellac" scent while working it. I do love the antique look of Cherry.
 

stark1

Flush Hate. Vote! 2020-2024
To me the flowering quince stems look very pleasing..

Having said that, I am told that their seeds contain hydrogen cyanide. True? —Or nitrites, which hydrologize
With stomach acids into hydrogen cyanide.

No issues with using stems made from flowering quince? :tup:
 
stark1,

TommyDee

Vaporitor
The seeds of most fruits have interesting qualities. Many have toxins. Yet the food-stuff is void of all that. That just means they've synthesized these toxins within the element that posses them. In this case, the toxins produced in the seeds. A rattlesnake is highly poisonous but good eatin' too.

I have had zero issues with the produce from FQ. I hadn't even started wearing a mask until I started using the Rosewood. Quince is biologically far superior to the other wood species I've worked so far when it comes to working on the lathe. The dust is far more bio-compatible than the Rosewood. The reason I pulled the stem. Cherry is not so bad but I can still see the ionic imprint on the dust. I suspect this is part of the hazards of working with wood dust. If that is true, then how positively charged the dust is will tell a lot with how it will react with human tissue. Ionic particles steal electrons from tissue.
 
TommyDee,

stark1

Flush Hate. Vote! 2020-2024
Was going to get one for Holloween, but our gov cancelled trick or treat this year!
 
stark1,

stark1

Flush Hate. Vote! 2020-2024
Hope the winds haven’t picked up....
We in the East have red sailors’ sunsets, all the way to the Cape.


 
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RogueGuy

Accessory Maker
Accessory Maker
Hey @TommyDee we are good here other than the thick toxic smoke. The fire started close to our house but thankfully the wind was blowing slightly away from us so it passed us without issue.........But, check out these videos. It was pretty scary. Been up I5 a few times and the damage is pretty bad. Entire mobile home parks gone.

http://instagr.am/p/CE4yWxVHlLr/ http://instagr.am/p/CE5LZbTHaKh/
The second vide is Burger King burning to the ground.

How are you guys faring with fire and smoke?
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Good to hear you're in a good place @RogueGuy . It sure is a mess. We have a red sun in a silver-blue sky. Otherwise we're using the house to filter air. Closed doors and no vents.
 
TommyDee,

stark1

Flush Hate. Vote! 2020-2024
Going to be a yearly event? So much for Donny, and his “fake global warming”.

The South is getting pounded as well. Record lineup of storms, they are running out of names.

What next? Water Wars?

Southern Hemisphere will be having its summer, hope it isn’t a repeat of last year.

Time to go stick my head in the sand. Oh, no! Eight feet of deluge?

Hey, TD! Did you cave in, and order your Orion?
 
stark1,
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