Macro-dosing

[Diggy Smalls]

When I get my Elev8r I'll load it up with a bunch of flower and then load up the ceramic disk with my homemade rosin and some cbd crumble. I'm going to try to melt my face off before I try anything else... Lol

 

[EverythingsHazy]

I haven't ever purposefully "macrodosed", but I feel that with the effect of diminishing returns, I wouldn't get much more of a buzz from increasing my dosage, for more than a day or two, before my tolerance caught up. At that point, I'd likely have to take a break, to get to the same level without needing to keep increasing dosage, or continue "macrodosing" and only getting a similar buzz as when using half the amount.

Even during a long session (~60+ minutes), the effects of tolerance and diminishing returns start to kick in.

I've always wondered if guys like Snoop Dog actually "feel" high all the time.

Do you guys not experience this?

 

[Diggy Smalls]

Yes, I have a tolerance and yes if I took giant hits all the time it would push my tolerance even higher. Tolerance adjusts very easily and fluidly in my experience, so in order to lower my tolerance some, I don't need to stop all together but can simply lower my intake. I vape every day and sometimes throughout the day, but I'm always managing my tolerance.

But yeah, I imagine the guys who smoke weed professionally don't get high in the same way anymore. I went through a phase where I had access to grade a medicinal at a good price and I had just started vaporizing. I realized it took less to get high, so I could get high more often. At a certain point I only felt a buzz for about 15 or 20 minutes no matter how big of a bowl I vaped. And it was never that strong of a buzz. I started to worry if I had damaged my receptors from massive amounts of thc vapor. But no, as soon as I cut back my body adjusted. I've quit cannabis for 40 hours and it felt like the first time when I vaped again.

Eh, this is sort of on topic. I better not start macro dosing all the damn time!

 

[howie105]

Where does macro, normal and micro doses start and end. Is it based on an individuals usual consumption pattern or is there a set of weight limits?

 

[Kosherbubba]

Where does macro, normal and micro doses start and end. Is it based on an individuals usual consumption pattern or is there a set of weight limits?

From what I hear microdosing is taking 0.1 to 0.2 grams of dry herb for a hit. Macro dosing starts at 0.5 grams per hit. It also depends on how your taking it. I am talking about vaping here.

 

[howie105]

From what I hear microdosing is taking 0.1 to 0.2 grams of dry herb for a hit. Macro dosing starts at 0.5 grams per hit. It also depends on how your taking it. I am talking about vaping here.

Thanks, I was wondering what the limits were because I got confused about load sizes over on the micro dose thread. So in my case I never macro dose because the vapes I use make me stir and hit too often with that.5g load size, too much for my personal tastes and lazy attitude. On the other hand, I can kill.2g loads one after the other all day long with a little glass and water on party days.

 

[Boden]

I consider any dose that completely saturates your receptors a macro dose.

In other words, after that dose you ain’t getting any higher just lower on weed.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Where does macro, normal and micro doses start and end. Is it based on an individuals usual consumption pattern or is there a set of weight limits?

A lot of people on here have their own definitions. These are mine based on someone with no tolerance (I don't believe the terms should be defined differently for people with varying tolerances):

Microdose = Sub-threshold effects ONLY (you don't feel buzzed)

Normal Dose = You get buzzed.

Macrodose = You get a strong buzz, and saturate your receptors.

 

[Danksta]

I thought there were only macro doses? Anything else is just a tease

 

[Alexis]

Microdose = Sub-threshold effects ONLY (you don't feel buzzed)

Im not sure I can agree with this. "Micro" is simply a size reference. There is a crucial relative aspect tied into this, which is commonly assumed, based on individual tolerance.

However, the concept of how much the effects are felt from a microdose is not really a part of the definition.
This inference might come from the fact that in order to make a conscious effort to lower tolerance and transist to micro (smaller) doses from macro (larger doses), it is necessary to dose below the required amount to produce a buzz.

And to maintain that dosage level UNTIL effects are felt from it, indicating that tolerance has been effectively lowered. One can continue to lower tolerance this way with sub-buzz doses, towards even more micro (smaller) loads. But it doesn't follow that you can't feel a buzz in order to microdose.

And untimately, what is a microdose, and a macrodose anyway? All completely relative of course. No actual fixed definition here. The term microdose simply implies smapl doses, which yes, usually mean less strong effects. But many users consider themselves to practice an active microdose strategy, keeping tolerance and habit in check, but not without feeling the full, satisfying effects and high that cannabis provides.

Im not completely disagreeing with you here Hazy, I just feel this is still a very loosely defined topic which is very open to considerstion and discussion.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Im not sure I can agree with this. "Micro" is simply a size reference. There is a crucial relative aspect tied into this, which is commonly assumed, based on individual tolerance.

However, the concept of how much the effects are felt from a microdose is not really a part of the definition.
This inference might come from the fact that in order to make a conscious effort to lower tolerance and transist to micro (smaller) doses from macro (larger doses), it is necessary to dose below the required amount to produce a buzz.

And to maintain that dosage level UNTIL effects are felt from it, indicating that tolerance has been effectively lowered. One can continue to lower tolerance this way with sub-buzz doses, towards even more micro (smaller) loads. But it doesn't follow that you can't feel a buzz in order to microdose.

And untimately, what is a microdose, and a macrodose anyway? All completely relative of course. No actual fixed definition here. The term microdose simply implies smapl doses, which yes, usually mean less strong effects. But many users consider themselves to practice an active microdose strategy, keeping tolerance and habit in check, but not without feeling the full, satisfying effects and high that cannabis provides.

Im not completely disagreeing with you here Hazy, I just feel this is still a very loosely defined topic which is very open to considerstion and discussion.

Thank you for the respectful reply. I mainly got my definition from the following...

What is a microdose? Published guidelines define a microdose to be at 1/100th of the expected pharmacological dose provided it is no more than 100 ì g or 30 n Mol. Studies using such a microdose are called microdosing studies. Guidelines in Europe1 and USA2 now permit such studies in human subjects very early in the drug development process. The preclinical toxicology required is minimal and hence these studies can be used as a candidate selection tool to effectively eliminate drug candidates that show sub-optimal human PK before spending time and effort in the kind of extensive toxicology that is required prior to conventional Phase 1. The term “Phase 0” is therefore often used to refer to such studies. Ultrasensitive bioanalytical equipment and techniques are obviously required, but the substantial cost and time savings from early elimination of unviable compounds may more than justify the investment.

Microdosing, or micro-dosing, is a technique for studying the behaviour of drugs in humans through the administration of doses so low ("sub-therapeutic") they are unlikely to produce whole-body effects, but high enough to allow the cellular response to be studied. This is called a "Phase 0 study" and is usually conducted before clinical Phase I to predict whether a drug is viable for the next phase of testing. Human Microdosing aims to reduce the resources spent on non-viable drugs and the amount of testing done on animals.

I don't think people have experimented well enough to determine the "therapeutic" dose range for Cannabis. While some drugs do require high doses, a lot of others have drastic effects in the 0.25mg (or 0.00025g) range. I wouldn't be surprised if doses in the 0.01-0.10mg range of THC can have beneficial effects for a lot of people.

When people talk about the endocannabinoid system (ECS), and keeping it in homeostasis, or giving it a boost, I feel like they would benefit a lot more from a maximum of a few milligrams of THC and CBD daily, than overloading themselves to the point of getting buzzed, if homeostasis or a slight boost is the actual desire. I definitely don't think our bodies are in homeostasis when we are experiencing a buzz. Something is elevated or lowered to the point of us feeling something.

 

[Boden]

Im not sure I can agree with this. "Micro" is simply a size reference. There is a crucial relative aspect tied into this, which is commonly assumed, based on individual tolerance.

However, the concept of how much the effects are felt from a microdose is not really a part of the definition.
This inference might come from the fact that in order to make a conscious effort to lower tolerance and transist to micro (smaller) doses from macro (larger doses), it is necessary to dose below the required amount to produce a buzz.

And to maintain that dosage level UNTIL effects are felt from it, indicating that tolerance has been effectively lowered. One can continue to lower tolerance this way with sub-buzz doses, towards even more micro (smaller) loads. But it doesn't follow that you can't feel a buzz in order to microdose.

And untimately, what is a microdose, and a macrodose anyway? All completely relative of course. No actual fixed definition here. The term microdose simply implies smapl doses, which yes, usually mean less strong effects. But many users consider themselves to practice an active microdose strategy, keeping tolerance and habit in check, but not without feeling the full, satisfying effects and high that cannabis provides.

Im not completely disagreeing with you here Hazy, I just feel this is still a very loosely defined topic which is very open to considerstion and discussion.

Since micro means ‘one millionth of something’ and macro means ‘long’ we are pretty much making this up as we go.

Although as a med patient micro = sub intoxicating dose.

Much like optics where micro refers to something below the threshold of unaided sight.

I don’t completely understand the common notion of tolerance as applied here since its entirely perception based. Your body doesn’t build a tolerance to herb, your brain just gets used to the altered state.

Lots of mythos in this culture.

 

[Alexis]

@EverythingsHazy and @Boden thanks for sharing this info. I never looked into this actually or really considered it's origins. I never set out a dosing strategy myself. I try to be minimal in all things- but it is like eating less and being more hungry/less satiated, and crucially as in real life for myself-underweight!

I am admittedly a recreational user, but benefit massively health wise through long term illness. I just use how I feel is natural for my needs and purposes at the time, always drawing the line between being overly conservative, and excessive.

Sorry if it seemed like I was arrogantly refuting you @EverythingsHazy I appreciate that background cheers bro have a good evening.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

@EverythingsHazy and @Boden thanks for sharing this info. I never looked into this actually or really considered it's origins. I never set out a dosing strategy myself. I try to be minimal in all things- but it is like eating less and being more hungry/less satiated, and crucially as in real life for myself-underweight!

I am admittedly a recreational user, but benefit massively health wise through long term illness. I just use how I feel is natural for my needs and purposes at the time, always drawing the line between being overly conservative, and excessive.

Sorry if it seemed like I was arrogantly refuting you @EverythingsHazy I appreciate that background cheers bro have a good evening.

No offense taken. Your reply was polite.

 

[justcametomind]

For a true mind flush

1. Munch one of my chocolates ~80mg THC/ 20mg CBD. (Yummy)
2. Turn Vapor Tower on and load the whip. (Old friend)
3. Get the FF2 out and vape a bowl. (Tasty)
4. Vape through the whip load until I forget to (oooh something shiny)
5. Chocolate kicks in. (Now we’re talkin)
6. Mario Kart (Fuck yeah)

Mario Kart?
I can’t win at that game high. I could play Final Fantasy Tactics though.

 

[Diggy Smalls]

So I recently got the Elev8r from 7th Floor and it's great for macro dosing. You need a dab torch to use it properly, but I've been experimenting with AVB and using a smaller torch style lighter and I've come up with a method that works great, but it whistles. Anyway, I've had big doses but never any that tastes so delicious as from the Elev8r.

 

[Boden]

So last night I was making some chocolates. Once I was done mixing everything and had pored the molds I had all these bowls and spoons with chocolate on them. So I proceeded to lick them clean. Waste not want not. Then I had a nibble of the duff which was still good and oily and then nibbled half a chocolate once they started to set. Time: 8:30pm

About an hour later started to feel nice and lifted

At the two hour mark...

I went to that place only very experienced heads can get back from without losing their shit.

At 10 am this morning I was back to normal.

That was a macro dose.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

Microdose = Sub-threshold effects ONLY (you don't feel buzzed)

.

You've mentioned in other posts that any perceivable effects whatsoever, no matter how slight, disqualifies it as a microdose. Let me explain why that's highly illogical.

From
http://naturalhealthservices.ca/microdosing-with-cannabiswhy-less-can-be-more/

"Minimum effective dosage is the goal in microdosing.

Dr. Dustin Sulak, medical cannabis expert, says “most people have a certain threshold dosage of cannabis, below which they’ll experience health benefits over time, and above which they will start building tolerance, experiencing diminishing benefits and more side effects.”

What can you expect? Depending on the strain that you have ingested (sativa vs. indica etc.) you may feel more relaxed or more energetic. Your mood and emotions may be more balanced. You may feel more creative or social and less anxious. "

What this clearly demonstrates is that the threshold is not located precisely on the line between perceivable effects and non perceivable effects, rather, the threshold is located ever-so-slightly over the line where perceivable effects start. More socially relaxed, more energetic, less anxiety, more balanced emotions are all PERCEIVABLE effects that one can achieve via a microdose. The lack of these subtle but perceivable effects is not required for it to be called a microdose.

We can agree that any dose producing a buzz is not a microdose. But we will never agree on where the microdosing threshold is actually located (which is funny because we're literally arguing about a difference of a few tenths on the 1-10 scale). Dr. Sulak suggests that a dose that brings you to the level of the aforementioned perceivable benefits but without the buzz, paranoia, or side effects is indeed a microdose.

 

[Boden]

You've mentioned in other posts that any perceivable effects whatsoever, no matter how slight, disqualifies it as a microdose. Let me explain why that's highly illogical.

From
http://naturalhealthservices.ca/microdosing-with-cannabiswhy-less-can-be-more/

"Minimum effective dosage is the goal in microdosing.

Dr. Dustin Sulak, medical cannabis expert, says “most people have a certain threshold dosage of cannabis, below which they’ll experience health benefits over time, and above which they will start building tolerance, experiencing diminishing benefits and more side effects.”

What can you expect? Depending on the strain that you have ingested (sativa vs. indica etc.) you may feel more relaxed or more energetic. Your mood and emotions may be more balanced. You may feel more creative or social and less anxious. "

What this clearly demonstrates is that the threshold is not located precisely on the line between perceivable effects and non perceivable effects, rather, the threshold is located ever-so-slightly over the line where perceivable effects start. More socially relaxed, more energetic, less anxiety, more balanced emotions are all PERCEIVABLE effects that one can achieve via a microdose. The lack of these subtle but perceivable effects is not required for it to be called a microdose.

We can agree that any dose producing a buzz is not a microdose. But we will forever disagree on where the microdosing threshold is actually located (which is funny because we're literally arguing about a difference of a few tenths on the 1-10 scale). Dr. Sulak suggests that a dose that brings you to the level of the aforementioned perceivable benefits but without the buzz, paranoia, or side effects is indeed a microdose.

Technically the Dr. is using the term microdose incorrectly.

A minimum effective dosage is a minimum effective dose.

A microdose is a clinical trial term used for dosage far below the minimum effective dosage. A microdose is used to detect negative reactions at sub damaging levels in clinical trials.

For herb that would be a very very small amount. Like 0.0005g

That said, in the common vernacular it just means small. So you are both correct. Just depends on which definition you are using. Medical or slang

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

in the common vernacular it just means small. So you are both correct. Just depends on which definition you are using. Medical or slang

Well yeah, that's what I tried explaining to him the other day which of course went in one ear and out the other. The old football analogy. Just because American football isn't really football doesn't mean it will ever stop being called football, and to go around yelling at everyone that American football isn't football won't exactly change the world..

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Well yeah, that's what I tried explaining to him the other day which of course went in one ear and out the other. The old football analogy. Just because American football isn't really football doesn't mean it will ever stop being called football, and to go around yelling at everyone that American football isn't football won't exactly change the world..

Again, no need to be rude.

The football analogy is not a good comparison. "Football" is being used differently due to region. It would be ridiculous for us to name another pro sport "football" here, right? Because we already have an official "football". That's whats being done with "microdose".

We can agree that any dose producing a buzz is not a microdose.

Good. We agree on something.

 

[Tranquility]

The old football analogy. Just because American football isn't really football doesn't mean it will ever stop being called football, and to go around yelling at everyone that American football isn't football won't exactly change the world..

Um..."American football" is football every bit as much as Association Football. Neither is played on a horse and both can directly trace its history back to early rules (Cambridge) before the split between the footballs over hacking. (Thus creating the Rugby/Association divide.)

 

[Winegums]

This thread has been derailed.

I personally was enjoying reading everyones “macro”dose method and don’t understand why “micro” dosing is even being discussed. There’s a whole thread that that topic can be discussed in. This is about sharing methods of getting so high you can’t see straight.

I’m loving my Herbalizer lately, my favourite lighter for my Vapcaps died. The “never giving up” heating of the Herbalizer makes for a great macro dosing tool. Just keep going until you don’t want any more.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

Again, no need to be rude.

The football analogy is not a good comparison. "Football" is being used differently due to region. It would be ridiculous for us to name another pro sport "football" here, right? Because we already have an official "football". That's whats being done with "microdose".

Now your ego is just looking for something to argue about. The football comparison is great considering the 2 sports are very different and the original football is a few thousand years older, just like cannabis microdosing is still microdosing despite it not having perfect literal correlation with the much older med school definition of microdosing. Maybe someday you'll drop the ego and accept reality.

 

[pakalolo]

Please stick to the topic. The definitions of micro-dosing and football are off topic. The rudeness on display in this thread is not consistent with our Prime Directive, which I shouldn't have to remind everyone is Be Nice. Innuendo and outright personal attacks aren't acceptable and the next one will earn someone a warning point.

We now return to your normal topic. Thanks for your cooperation.