London's Burning

[wilf789]

Not sure if in other countries the news has picked up on this yet, but London is turning into a war-zone at the moment.

On Saturday a riot in North London started after police shot dead a man last Thursday who was supposedly in possession of a gun himself. Since it happened rumours began flying around about whether or not he was actually a 'gangster' or whatever - apparently he was very well known in the local community and it prompted a lot of outrage.

The area of Tottenham experienced massive riots, with police cars, double-decker buses, and many shops and homes being looted and set on fire. Then on Sunday the same happened, this time spreading to other North London areas as well as East, West and South London. More fires, more looting, more rioting.

Then again today and going on right now tonight it has spread even further, right out to the London suburbs where I was born and my grandma and brothers live - in quite nice parts of the city. It has even spread to cities miles away in other areas of the country.

This is the latest BBC story on it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248

This is a map and timeline of the story since it started last week up till now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436499

Already 215 arrested in London and 35 in Birmingham. Dozens of police officers have been injured and hundreds of people's homes and businesses have been destroyed.

Mixed feelings abound about whether this started off as a legitimate protest but has been escalated by those seeking to simply profit from the disorder, as is often the case in these matters.

All I know is that I couldn't give a sh*t about the global markets suffering some downturn when my home city is going up in flames.

Roll on the Olympics in London next year eh...

Edit: The scene is being described by those present as 'apocalyptic', these pictures show why:

 

[weedemon]

intense! I don't know too much about this story but thanks for sharing with us man! i will read on further!

 

[eddyfrancis]

Wow that is crazy, I had no idea. I just read some articles, looks like there has been tension growing between the police and youths for a while and the shooting is what set the whole thing off. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14436529

 

[wilf789]

This woman from Hackney, one of the areas most affected, sums up the views of most Londoners in a quite extraordinary speech made in the midst of it all: http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

Some of the comments people are posting (Twitter and Facebook are exploding - even being blamed for inciting some of the violence) are beginning to border on idiotic racism. No-one is condoning the violence but blaming 'chavs' (as people who come from these areas are often called - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav ) and 'blacks' is only going to make the problems in the future worse.

The looting and rioting has got way out of control, but there are deeper forces at work than these kids merely being ridiculously stupid.

 

[VaporEyeSore]

London is going crazy at the moment. I just watched my local area ( a different one in south London) get trashed and brnt by a load of kids no older than 18 some looked as young as 13! There are several other areas too. Normaly there are various anarchist groups invlved in things like this but not this time.
This is all kids dareing and bragging on twiiter and organised on Blackberrys by disenchanted youths from all over London hitting certain areas. Also the timing of this is very strange as the prime minister the mayor and pretty much all the government are on holiday.

Not even sure what this is about if its about the guy that got shot, well he had a gun on him. Thats what happens in this country anyway.
So this is all a bit strange. What will be interesting is what new draconian laws or new tactics they will bring in because of this.
This could be the excuse this government has wanted to bring in water cannons into the uk for years!
It could also be a tactic by anti goverment groups (including opposition parties) to discredit and destabalise an allready shaky coalition government.
Underhand tactics in the UK? It the sort of thing we have been doing for 100s of years

 

[wilf789]

So this is all a bit strange. What will be interesting is what new draconian laws or new tactics they will bring in because of this.
This could be the excuse this government has wanted to bring in water cannons into the uk for years!

I'm starting to get very worried that this will all eventually lead to some kind of V for Vendetta style situation where everyone is so afraid that they let the government do whatever they want...

 

[djonkoman]

wow not heard about it yet, probably because pretty much my only newsincome is the newspaper(with a nice cup of coffee)
and the only one in the weekend is on saturdaymorning, haven't read yesterday's paper yet because usually the newspaper hasn't arrived yet when I have my afternoon cup of coffee(the newspaper is always late lately), so I just read the one of the day before, so I run 1 day behind on news(and 3 days on monday, wich it still is here, altough technically it's tuesday since it's 4 at night)

 

[Kelblow]

Nothing to do with proper civil unrest i.e Poll tax riots.Just yobs kicking off for the hell of it.

 

[wilf789]

Violence and looting continued through the night, spreading to five other cities in the country.

It has polarised opinion on whether these people had some sort of cause or whether they are just 'scum' or 'feral rats' - phrases which are being used a lot.

In the words of one our most intelligent national figures, Stephen Fry: 'Greed and looting most hurts the small shops and businesses who can least afford it. True of thugs who are bankers or thugs who aren't... Anyway, theres nothing I can say which wont sound stupid, misinformed and unhelpful. Which doesnt seem to be stopping anyone else...'

Which is spot on really. Each side is right to some extent - yes these at its most basic level these are the acts of mindless thugs, capitalising on a bad situation in order to rob some computers and new shoes, but it doesn't take a genius to realise that when it spreads this far, there are clearly underlying issues to be dealt with.

Now people are calling for the army to be brought in etc. I pray this is not needed and the police regain control soon enough.

Even the England football game tomorrow has been cancelled

Anyway here are some more pics:

An injured policeman is carried to safety by his colleague:

This is what the high street near where I was born looks like this morning:

 

[VaporEyeSore]

the rioters had a 2 hour free run before police and fire steped. Not seen that tactic before. Friends of mine had been tweeted about this happening at 6pm some informed police it started at 9pm no police until 11pm!
They are allready saying this is because they were undermaned and that they (the government) need to change the rules on recruitment.......

 

[WatTyler]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

Fucking disgusting.

Looting a shop is one thing. This robbery is a whole level lower.

 

[Bun.it]

http://www.londonriots.co.uk/

 

[Kelblow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456065

Fucking disgusting.

Looting a shop is one thing. This robbery is a whole level lower.

Totally agree Wat.I'm all for a bit of civil unrest but this is just thuggery.

 

[wilf789]

No-one's denying that a lot of this is thuggery or condoning the violence, but I think the more important issue is why so many people have got involved and what motivated them to.

There's no easy answers in any of this, whether you simply think they're 'chavs' or whether you blame it on the cuts/recession. The only thing that's clear is that something has to change in the way people grow up in these shitty neighbourhoods.

This man, a fairly well-known writer and community activist, spoke some sense (among some definitely debatable other stuff) to the BBC earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoFak7MRBJw

While obviously not condoning what's happened, he isn't too surprised by it either, and I think that's the feeling that many who come from places like Hackney and Tottenham are expressing.

 

[VaporEyeSore]

there is actualy a new term being used to name this. Londoners are calling it 'Flash Looting' which is really all it is.
This is a mad video. Its a looter cuaght as he is coming out of an electrical store and caught by police with locals telling police to beat him and handcuff him calling him scum and cheering the police. Now you dont see that in London often usually its the other way round.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwOXaik4L4

 

[wilf789]

Spread across the entire country by tonight. Even Manchester's being widely looted and burnt (a friend of mine was working in one of the shops when it was set on fire) and a police station in Nottingham's been petrol bombed.

All of this is just so fucked up - The shit situation these kids grew up in; the poor response of the police in the aftermath of the initial shooting; the outrageous and inexcusable actions of the muppets looting and burning people's businesses/homes down; and the retarded comments of people saying that the army should be brought in to shoot them and deport the rest.

And people ask me why I've wanted to leave this country for a while now...

 

[aesthyrian]

They call this "flash mobbing" here in Chicago. It has gotten to be a pretty bad problem with kids organizing through twitter and Facebook. We had 15 kids get on a bus and just start attacking people and stealing their stuff. And older man was assaulting in a park because they wanted his Ipad, hell even a 15 year old boy was confronted by a group of several men, one with a gun, and this was downtown literally block away from the largest train station in the city. A very busy area for sure.

But this has escalated into riots obviously. I am very sorry for this to be happening in your country, but can only hope some good change will come from it.

 

[charliedontsurf]

Heavy shit. That mugging video made me feel sick.

The looting and random violence is just disgusting, mostly because it's directed at innocents and not the politicians the "protestors" claim to despise.

I've been watching footage and reading for like an hour - check out this video of a police retreat: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14456050 Can't the UK police at use less lethal things like pepperballs against this kind of deliberate violence?

 

[wilf789]

In some ways I'm proud that the police haven't had to resort to using rubber bullets and gas etc, just batoning those that get too close.
A lot of upset people have obviously been calling for it, even saying the army should be brought in, but I reckon that would just pour gas on the flames and would set a dangerous precedent for the future. Young army squaddies aren't trained to deal with our own communities in the way police are.

You could argue that it's at times like this that it's most important that we retain our commitment to restraint rather than resorting to out-and-out force against our own people.

Edit: Having said that, as is always the case with these kinds of things, conspiracy theories are beginning to emerge. One of the most popular is that (after being told their numbers and funding would shortly be subject to large-scale cuts) the police are to some extent deliberately standing off in order that MPs will reverse their decision.
Not saying I believe that at all, just pointing out what some are saying.

 

[VaporEyeSore]

@wilf789 well said m8 if we star geting the army involved it will get crazier and we would end up being just like China!

 

[wilf789]

The one good thing to come out of all of this is the response of the great British sense of community and humour.
Alongside the Facebook groups that have got people out today to help with the clean-up, or just to protest against the rioters by staying at home and having a cup of tea, there have been some quite funny photoshop efforts of pictures taken over the last few days.

 

[vapirtoo]

Recipe for a good riot:

outdated education ------- one lump

overcrowded housing ------- two lumps

rampant unemployment ------ four lumps

simmering racism ----------- one pinch

As Langston Hughes wrote
" What happens to a dream deferred "

 

[wilf789]

Surprisingly insightful article in today's Guardian by comedian/actor Russell Brand.

Dismissing rioters as mindless is futile rhetoric. However unacceptable the UK riots, we need to ask why they are happening...
Amidst the bleakness of this social landscape, squinting all the while in the glare of a culture that radiates ultraviolet consumerism and infrared celebrity. That daily, hourly, incessantly enforces the egregious, deceitful message that you are what you wear, what you drive, what you watch and what you watch it on, in livid, neon pixels. The only light in their lives comes from these luminous corporate messages. No wonder they have their fucking hoods up...
Why am I surprised that these young people behave destructively, "mindlessly", motivated only by self-interest? How should we describe the actions of the city bankers who brought our economy to its knees in 2010? Altruistic? Mindful? Kind? But then again, they do wear suits, so they deserve to be bailed out, perhaps that's why not one of them has been imprisoned. And they got away with a lot more than a few fucking pairs of trainers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/11/london-riots-davidcameron

Sure, he uses rhetorical flourish to enhance his slightly more debatable points, but the essence of his argument remains one of the key issues behind all that has occurred over the last week.

 

[VaporEyeSore]

Genuine respect will come about if we have more contact with one another and come to understand each others values. This is how we will develop admiration and appreciation for each other.
Dalai Lama 12/8/2011