Life Insurance for Medical users who don't combust?

[John Lewus]

This is my first time starting a thread but I could not find any discussion on this. I am frustrated by the fact that my insurance company classifies me as a "smoker" because I vaporize cannabis. My health is the best it has ever been since I started this habit 5 years ago and has significantly reduced my alcohol consumption. I feel guilty for not having insurance because my wife brings it up every so often when she reads about someone with a family dying and worries that it could happen to her. I feel like I am having to choose between enjoying cannabis which helps me on so many levels (neck pain management, stress, etc..) and may help stave off cancer which is rampant on both sides of my family or choosing a safety net for my family should something happen to me. I just can't bring myself to pay 4x the cost of something that classifies me as a daily tobacco smoker when my risk factors are super low (other than family history of cancer but I don't think insurance companies can factor that in and I eat a lot of antioxidents specifically to reduce my risk of cancer). My medical card is just for the pain I get because my neck is constantly pinching a nerve which is made worse through exercise. That is hardly life threatening.

Have any of you found good insurance providers for people who don't smoke but do vape on a daily basis that does not charge exorbitant rates? I eat healthy, exercise daily, and according to my doctor am in the top 1% of her patients for health. My good cholesterol is really high and bad cholesterol is really low and all of my metabolic panels come back really good. I am 39 now and think that rates probably change when I turn 40 so I would like to get in now on life insurance. I really should not have to pay what a daily cigarette smoker pays but unfortunately because of the patchwork of laws and risk aversion of insurance companies I am not sure what I can do other than to not buy life insurance and just think I am saving $50 a month. I think over time once more accepted studies show that long term cannabis use is not a health risk the rates will go down but that does not help me now.

My current provider Countries insurance is great for car/house etc.. but their policy is that you can't have consumed any cannabis within the first year of taking out the policy or the policy is voided. I won't lie to the insurance companies because the last thing my family needs is me making monthly payments for years only to have them find out I vaped cannabis a few times during that first year and canceling my policy post mortem after getting hit by a bus or something not even related to cannabis.

 

[CarolKing]

Cannabis is still classified as a hard core drug by the Federal Government. Until that gets changed the insurance companies won't change either. Most folks don't realize that vaporizing isn't smoking. They probably are classifying you as a cigarette smoker who takes hard core drugs.

I don't know a lot about life insurance because I don't sell it. It's just a guess on my part. Do you even need to tell them? Would they know the difference if you didn't tell your doc. If you are a med cannabis patient they would know that way. It's not their business far as I'm concerned. It's not like you are smoking cannabis.

They want to weed out folks that live unsavory lifestyles, it mean that you are wreckless in your personal behavior far as the insurance company is concerned.

EDIT
It's probably fine to drink alcohol. I'm sure plenty lie about how many drinks they have in a day. I wonder really how truthful folks are when they fill out the forms for life insurance.

I'm never truthful when on a form they ask if I use cannabis. I have a little life insurance policy it's only $20,000. I got it 25 years ago, if it asked if I used cannabis when I filled out the forms I would have said no. I wouldn't have wanted my employer to know. The insurance is through my work. Not that I'm paranoid but you need to be careful what you fill out on a form.

 

[fidget]

Last policy I took out asked if I used any drugs apart from cannabis - UK

 

[John Lewus]

I won't lie to the insurance company because for one it would be fraud but even more worrisome would be that they would deny paying a claim. Imagine getting a million dollar policy and paying hundreds of dollars a year for it only to have the insurance company deny your claim. Ive heard of horror stories in the past where people had claims denied just because they spelled their name differently on their application than their legal name or some other BS like that. The insurance companies are going to do anything they can to avoid paying a million dollars. It certainly wouldn't be that hard for them to hire a PI to find out if I had used cannabis in the past during my insured period.

I am hoping that someone in this forum is based in the USA and has a life insurance provider recommendation for someone who is really healthy but vapes cannabis on a daily basis. The insurance company bean counters would realize I am not a high risk for dying and would provide me an appropriate rate that is not 4x the cost of a non-tobacco smoker.

 

[FlyingLow]

I did a lot of research on this last year and bottom line is if you want to be classified as a nonsmoker you must simply tell them you are not. Every major insurance company I looked into made NO distinction between vapor and smoking, simple as that. In interviews I was clear exactly when I quit cigarettes and that was it. I did let them know I very occasionally used MJ but was confident it was not in my system.

It does help if you do actually quit for a while. Cant cheat a drug test... or at least I never want to have to try.

 

[John Lewus]

I did a lot of research on this last year and bottom line is if you want to be classified as a nonsmoker you must simply tell them you are not. Every major insurance company I looked into made NO distinction between vapor and smoking, simple as that. In interviews I was clear exactly when I quit cigarettes and that was it. I did let them know I very occasionally used MJ but was confident it was not in my system.

It does help if you do actually quit for a while. Cant cheat a drug test... or at least I never want to have to try.

I would absolutely quit long enough to clear it from my system. I am just worried that if something happened that was non MJ related and they could prove I used MJ that they would deny my wife coverage. I don't know how easy it is for insurance companies to deny coverage.

 

[CarolKing]

I found this online.

Marijuana usage is not viewed as other drugs such as cocaine, for example. Testing positive for THC will not lead to a flat rejection of a life insurance policy. However, the use of this substance can result in receiving a cigarette smoker’s rates, which are substantially higher than those of a non-smoker.

Life insurance classifications for a marijuana user are guidelines and are not set in stone; they can change at any time per the company consideration. Also other health conditions could change consideration. The majority of the company information below comes from a blog researched and written by Jeff Root, owner of Root Financial.

● American General: Smoking marijuana more than twice monthly could result in the rates of a smoker with the possibility of a table rating. Smoking two times per month will set the rating as a standard non-smoker. Applicants who smoke two times a year or less could be rated as a preferred best non-smoker.

● Banner Life: Applicants could be considered a standard smoker with occasional use. They could be rated as a substandard table B smoker with daily use.

● Columbus Life: Applicants over 25 years old who smoke pot experimentally to intermittently might get standard smoker rates. Moderate use could be a table 2 rating. Heavy use will be declined. Other drug use will also be a factor.

 

[John Lewus]

This is roughly inline with what my insurance company said as well. I am not going to pay smoker rates when I am WAAAAAAY healthier than a smoker. Hopefully over time the bean counters at the insurance companies will realize that there is going to be a market full of people like myself that will hopefully increase competition and drive down rates. I would be ok with paying 10% and possibly 20% above the preferred non-smoker rate just because I do consume cannabis and the long term effects from an insurance standpoint are not really vetted yet but I won't pay 4x.

Lets just hope for the sake of my family I don't get hit by a bus.

The ironic thing is that I truly believe cannabis is going to increase my life expectancy vs decrease it. From everything I read online I don't believe this will shorten my life in anyway, reduce the quality of my life in anyway, and might possibly reduce my cancer risk.

 

[RUDE BOY]

If your a legal card holding mmj patient can't you say you do edibles?
How would they know whether you smoked, vaped or ate your MJ ?


(For me it don't matter since even the companies that say "no medical exam or questions required" ask you about HIV, which seems to be a medical question to me and disqualifies me right off the bat. )

 

[CarolKing]

That's what I don't understand. How would they know? If you knew you were going to take a drug test, don't use for a month. If you died are you worried they would do an autopsy and find out that way? Then your family wouldn't get the money from the insurance. Why would they check for drugs if you died, in an autopsy? I think you are over thinking this issue and getting too worried.

Vaporizing is different than smoking. Smoking cigarettes cause cancer.

IMO I think a lot of folks do a lot of things they don't tell the insurance agents when getting life insurance.

 

[grokit]

Not life, but when I got aca health insurance the distinction was tobacco user vs. non tobacco user.

 

[John Lewus]

That's what I don't understand. How would they know? If you knew you were going to take a drug test, don't use for a month. If you died are you worried they would do an autopsy and find out that way? Then your family wouldn't get the money from the insurance. Why would they check for drugs if you died, in an autopsy? I think you are over thinking this issue and getting too worried.

Vaporizing is different than smoking. Smoking cigarettes cause cancer.

IMO I think a lot of folks do a lot of things they don't tell the insurance agents when getting life insurance.

I might be over thinking this and quitting for a while before my insurance screen is not a problem. It is the silly requirement that I can't consume for a whole year afterwards. It is unlikely that they would be able to prove. Insurance companies would be very happy to take my money and then find a loop hole to deny payment to my family.

 

[CarolKing]

If you got Life Insurance and told them that you didn't smoke but you really did, then you died of lung cancer I see the issue but not vaporizing cannabis.

 

[John Lewus]

If you got Life Insurance and told them that you didn't smoke but you really did, then you died of lung cancer I see the issue but not vaporizing cannabis.

I agree but the risk is still there. I did some research and I probably would be ok and would only really have a problem if I died of something related to vaporizing/consuming cannabis within the first few years after taking out my policy. However, I would do a million dollar policy and the very real risk I worry about is that I get into a car accident or get hit by a car and the insurance company finds out I had cannabis in my system. They could in theory make the claim I lied on my application, my death was somehow related to the cannabis (maybe they claim I was high and stepped out in front of car) and challenge the payout. It is probably a small risk but it is still there.

Open Enrollment is coming up and I will see what the policy is for life insurance through my company. Maybe they won't mention anything