stickstones
Vapor concierge
Maybe your theory about the slight temp variance would explain why vapes are always only accurate to +/-5F at best?
Law of thermodynamics?.No GAS LAWS
- Thread starter luchiano
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luchiano
Well-Known Member
I don't think pressure has to do with that as much as just cool air coming in the system and the heater needing time to adjust. The Aromed is made to have the air to be the exact temperature you dial in as long as you inhale as it guides you to. They added the amount of air you should inhale at a certain rate into the equation when they calibrated the Aromed. They also took into account that herb will be in the chamber and calibrated the distance the air would need to travel to be at the set temperature. This is why they state no matter how much herb you put into it(according to their guidelines) the temperature will still be exact. The only difference is the more herb you use, the longer your inhale has to be to have the exact temperature throughout the whole herb chamber and you can't pack the chamber as this will make the temperature unstable. You have to leave it loose.
Also, you to take into account it cools off after every puff so the herb won't stay heated, and only heats up when you inhale so that is probably why they add so much things into the equation to keep the temperature exact instead of just constantly heating air like most vaporizers.
Also, you to take into account it cools off after every puff so the herb won't stay heated, and only heats up when you inhale so that is probably why they add so much things into the equation to keep the temperature exact instead of just constantly heating air like most vaporizers.
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stickstones
Vapor concierge
luchiano
Well-Known Member
I don't know at least without going to a science lab and using the equipment. All there is to do now is ask the maker and sees what he says which is what I did. I'm just waiting for a response. Or a cooking thermometer can be placed in the chamber with the herb and measure the temperature as a session is happening. The only issue would be putting the the thermometer into the herb since it will be so tight from the packed herb.
Why not take a trip to Colorado and get some?. We are living in some good times my brother, take advantage. I am going to soon.
Why not take a trip to Colorado and get some?. We are living in some good times my brother, take advantage. I am going to soon.
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nicelytoasted
Vaked Chemist
I post in here in the hope that we can calmly and maturely discuss and speculate on how the Herbalaire design actually works. I've used an HA 2.1 as my daily driver for over six years, and used it in just about every conceivable way.
As I've mentioned before, the act of vapourizing is in itself, relatively straight forward, however, the science of what is going on is when we vapourize is very complicated. There are no simple explanations to complex processes, imo.
Instead of grinding, to expose more surface area for a better extraction, HA tells us that grinding is un-necessary, and is actually discouraged, and that we should compact whole buds, creating some back pressure. Pretty much opposite of most every other vape (aside from the vapolution, iirc), in fact it would probably plug most other vapes. I've actually tried to plug this thing with bud, even mixed with hash and oil, and could not do it! Note that the HA does work just fine with ground bud, as well.
We must look at all the factors in play here, to get a better idea, imo. Things like the flow design, heat retention, temperature control (both excellent in the HA), as well as any introduced pressure and vacuum.
The idea that a pressure increase causes a significant temperature increase works in theory, in the proper conditions, but I don't believe it to be a main player here (when using the pump, to push the air through), imo, since this is not a perfectly closed system (as mentioned by a few). I've seen it previously mentioned here that this is why the HA only goes to 400F, to avoid combustion (~ 446F or so, iirc). I've thought along these lines before, so to test it, I've plugged my crucible very tightly with some fresh, slightly moist herb, many times and set the temperature and made up a bag. (The HA 2.1 has 3 indicator lights: green = under temp, amber = at temp, and red = overtemp). At no time did the temperature waver even slightly (stayed yellow), even though the temperature control maintenance precision is ~ 2-3F, and responds quickly. If the temperature rose even ~ 10F, I would expect the temperature light would go red, or overheat condition, and the heating to discontinue, which it did not. Just to confirm, after the above, I set the temperature ~ 10F lower, and the light immediately went to red (over heat condition), then back to yellow within 30 seconds or so (ready condition). Same for increasing the temperature ~ 10F, it went green, then back to yellow in seconds.
The back pressure can play a minor role with temperature, imo, but when it's combined with the flow design, that's the major player, in conjunction with the heat retention and the precision temperature control, that produces a thoroughly browned and even extraction, even with compressed whole buds, imo.
Those 18 jets, strategically aligned and placed just before the herb chamber, allow for a penetrating, multi-turbulent air stream that hits the load from all sides, simultaneously. In addition, the pump, pulsates its air flow, giving a mild hammering action. In effect, the flow is just pounding on the herb. The temperature rarely ever varies (as seen by the light under the front dial), even if you and others haul on it like crazy). The load comes out in a totally and evenly spent "puck", all the way through, with never any green specks. You can squeeze this puck and it will crumble into dust, especially at the higher temperatures.
As I've mentioned in another thread, I believe that this overall design of flow, combined with temperature control and heat retention, has optimized the thermal desorption process of extraction when vapourizing, as we know it, imo. This extraction methodology is so effective that I believe that you need to compress the bud, to give it some resistance, to optimize the "residence time" that it spends in the bud. I liken this theory to making BHO, and purging your bud with liquid butane, which is such a great extractor that you need to compress the bud, to optimize the yield. As a confirmation, I've spoken directly to a few of the folks at HA about this and they agree that this is actually the case, here. This is truly revolutionary, and a game changer, a term that gets thrown around in here far too often, in other threads, imo.
As a side note:
I've seen some good posts in the latter parts of this thread, and hope that we can continue in this direction. This is not about who is right or wrong. My post here is about me speculating what MIGHT be happening, but no one really knows at this time, since it's such a complicated process.
Keep in mind, we are only looking at using the pump here, which pushes the air through, and increases the pressure slightly. When we use the whip, or attach to glass, we are drawing the air through, which will give a slight pressure drop. That's a totally different discussion for another day.
Thanks
Ntd
As I've mentioned before, the act of vapourizing is in itself, relatively straight forward, however, the science of what is going on is when we vapourize is very complicated. There are no simple explanations to complex processes, imo.
Instead of grinding, to expose more surface area for a better extraction, HA tells us that grinding is un-necessary, and is actually discouraged, and that we should compact whole buds, creating some back pressure. Pretty much opposite of most every other vape (aside from the vapolution, iirc), in fact it would probably plug most other vapes. I've actually tried to plug this thing with bud, even mixed with hash and oil, and could not do it! Note that the HA does work just fine with ground bud, as well.
We must look at all the factors in play here, to get a better idea, imo. Things like the flow design, heat retention, temperature control (both excellent in the HA), as well as any introduced pressure and vacuum.
The idea that a pressure increase causes a significant temperature increase works in theory, in the proper conditions, but I don't believe it to be a main player here (when using the pump, to push the air through), imo, since this is not a perfectly closed system (as mentioned by a few). I've seen it previously mentioned here that this is why the HA only goes to 400F, to avoid combustion (~ 446F or so, iirc). I've thought along these lines before, so to test it, I've plugged my crucible very tightly with some fresh, slightly moist herb, many times and set the temperature and made up a bag. (The HA 2.1 has 3 indicator lights: green = under temp, amber = at temp, and red = overtemp). At no time did the temperature waver even slightly (stayed yellow), even though the temperature control maintenance precision is ~ 2-3F, and responds quickly. If the temperature rose even ~ 10F, I would expect the temperature light would go red, or overheat condition, and the heating to discontinue, which it did not. Just to confirm, after the above, I set the temperature ~ 10F lower, and the light immediately went to red (over heat condition), then back to yellow within 30 seconds or so (ready condition). Same for increasing the temperature ~ 10F, it went green, then back to yellow in seconds.
The back pressure can play a minor role with temperature, imo, but when it's combined with the flow design, that's the major player, in conjunction with the heat retention and the precision temperature control, that produces a thoroughly browned and even extraction, even with compressed whole buds, imo.
Those 18 jets, strategically aligned and placed just before the herb chamber, allow for a penetrating, multi-turbulent air stream that hits the load from all sides, simultaneously. In addition, the pump, pulsates its air flow, giving a mild hammering action. In effect, the flow is just pounding on the herb. The temperature rarely ever varies (as seen by the light under the front dial), even if you and others haul on it like crazy). The load comes out in a totally and evenly spent "puck", all the way through, with never any green specks. You can squeeze this puck and it will crumble into dust, especially at the higher temperatures.
As I've mentioned in another thread, I believe that this overall design of flow, combined with temperature control and heat retention, has optimized the thermal desorption process of extraction when vapourizing, as we know it, imo. This extraction methodology is so effective that I believe that you need to compress the bud, to give it some resistance, to optimize the "residence time" that it spends in the bud. I liken this theory to making BHO, and purging your bud with liquid butane, which is such a great extractor that you need to compress the bud, to optimize the yield. As a confirmation, I've spoken directly to a few of the folks at HA about this and they agree that this is actually the case, here. This is truly revolutionary, and a game changer, a term that gets thrown around in here far too often, in other threads, imo.
As a side note:
I've seen some good posts in the latter parts of this thread, and hope that we can continue in this direction. This is not about who is right or wrong. My post here is about me speculating what MIGHT be happening, but no one really knows at this time, since it's such a complicated process.
Keep in mind, we are only looking at using the pump here, which pushes the air through, and increases the pressure slightly. When we use the whip, or attach to glass, we are drawing the air through, which will give a slight pressure drop. That's a totally different discussion for another day.
Thanks
Ntd
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